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Thread: 2024 Offseason Thread

  1. #1

    Pelicans 2024 Offseason Thread

    The season is over for the New Orleans Pelicans, and we have a lot to discuss. Here's a place to discuss.

    There's a lot of talk about a lot of things we should or could do. Priorities here, priorities there.

    To kick off our off-season discussion, here's a question:

    If you were David Griffin, what are the first three moves you want to make this offseason? Of course actually making those moves requires other teams to play ball, but what are you going for?

    Could be trades, could be extensions, could be infrastructural changes (training staff, coaching staff, etc).
    Basketball.

  2. #2
    Talk to the coach, find the team he wants to build and get the guys. We have committed to Willie for better or worse. If everyone is not on the same page again we will have another letdown like this year. I think we are kinda screwed personally because I don’t think Willie is ready.

  3. #3
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Jonas leaving is the immediate thing that needs to be addressed. We don't have a starting center on the roster any more.

    And then there is the thing on everyone's minds, do we move on from BI. His playoff debacle has left a bad taste for sure. We can't resign him for a Max deal but we also shouldn't trade him for a bad return either. So it's a very delicate situation.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    Jonas leaving is the immediate thing that needs to be addressed. We don't have a starting center on the roster any more.

    And then there is the thing on everyone's minds, do we move on from BI. His playoff debacle has left a bad taste for sure. We can't resign him for a Max deal but we also shouldn't trade him for a bad return either. So it's a very delicate situation.
    I think there's possibilities out there to deal with both issues in one move, which is nice. Depends on other teams of course, can't trade people without a trade partner, but it may be doable.

  5. #5


    YES GRIFF

    YES

    NOW IS THE TIME

  6. #6
    Very mixed interview so far from Griff.

    He says that it's ''time to get better'' so it won't be a ''summer of complacency'' and also says that ''we've seen it enough'' when erring on the side of continuity.

    But he also praises the coaching staff for doing a good job in a ''difficult situation'', says Willie Green is ''authentically himself'', and brushes off questions about CJ+Zion+BI producing losing minutes by saying it's the fault of the supporting cast (he phrased it more nicely, but that's what ''the pieces you put around them'' means).

    He also says that ''you certainly don't come into this with the idea that we're going to build around one of them'', which of course, contradicts with the idea that we've seen enough to make a judgment and that we can't be complacent. That sounds a lot like standing pat with both of them. That said, he did saw ''when two of them were on the court together, certainly we won those minutes'' but that when all three were on court we ''tended to lose'' and he didn't say which two he was talking about, so maybe that's him politely hinting at moving one of the three. Presumably that would be BI.

    Super mixed signals. Get the feeling that he hasn't really worked out what he wants to do yet, which I don't actually believe, so the result is that I think he's just not prepared well for this interview.

    Edit: On the plus side, as I sit with those statements, if he's being even remotely honest it does sound like he knows what we know. Which is a good sign.
    Last edited by Pelicanidae; 04-30-2024 at 12:36 PM.

  7. #7
    I think Griff is going to realize that if he doesn't shake things up he will start to lose the fan base.

  8. #8
    I will give Griff some credit in that this is probably the first end of season interview he's given where it's felt like he's actually looking at problems instead of just giving platitudes.

    Mentioned that we had moments of excellence this year but it was in ''fits and starts''. Said that we've seen the group healthy enough now, ''enough to know that we've got a lot of work to do'' because there are teams that ''are going to get radically better this off season and we need to do the same'' and repeated a need for urgency.

    I agree completely with that.

  9. #9

  10. #10
    Y’ all sure this was not last year’ s presser? He is pretty much saying the same thing. Sounds like he wants to keep Ingram too. Jesus

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    Y’ all sure this was not last year’ s presser? He is pretty much saying the same thing. Sounds like he wants to keep Ingram too. Jesus
    Last season he said everything was pretty good and injuries were the main problem so we had to just stay the course because the sample size of the main guys wasnt sufficient.

    This year he says we've seen enough of a sample size, admits that playing all three at once led to losing minutes, and says we need to improve urgently.

    If you think those two pressers are identical then you have some bias so strong no truth could penetrate it.

    Griff peddles platitudes and has done for years. This is the first time in a while where hes seemed even semi legitimate.

  12. #12
    As long as we keep on making it to Play -In . Gayle and her board sees nothing wrong. Season a success. They don’t want it go to long because she is old and does not want to miss the debutante parties in May and June.

    That is what our Front Office is thinking

  13. #13
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Man... he said when 2 of the 3 are on the court together it was good, and with all 3 on the court together it was not good. That makes it sound like either CJ or BI will be gone.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    Man... he said when 2 of the 3 are on the court together it was good, and with all 3 on the court together it was not good. That makes it sound like either CJ or BI will be gone.
    And between the two, only keeping one of them is a long term hamstring to the franchise. CJ's earning a lot, but it's not top-of-the-league money and it's only a short contract. BI's extension is the albatross.

    It does sound like he knows. Can't be sure, Griff's a used car salesman at the best of times, but it does look like it.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    And between the two, only keeping one of them is a long term hamstring to the franchise. CJ's earning a lot, but it's not top-of-the-league money and it's only a short contract. BI's extension is the albatross.

    It does sound like he knows. Can't be sure, Griff's a used car salesman at the best of times, but it does look like it.

    Didn’t JJ Redick once call Griff a snake oil salesman?

  16. #16
    Was it also Griff that got an extension or just the coaching staff?

    I would think Griff feeling some security might make him willing to move big pieces and take the risks associated with that as opposed to standing pat and trying to maintain.

    I could be totally wrong. I'm not going to execute the guy yet. He's gotten the team in a much better position than it has been in many years. Can he get it to the next level though?

  17. #17
    Interesting contrast of messages.

    When asked if we need a pure point guard, Griff said not necessarily and that skill and intelligence across the team can make up for lacking a traditional point guard. His example was SGA, who is not a traditional pass first point but OKC never has issues getting into their offense or being creative.

    When asked the same question, BI said that yes, he thinks getting a traditional PG would help him a lot. Cites that in his all-star season he benefited a lot from being fed by Lonzo and Jrue.

    Crossed wires messaging there. Sounds like BI's opinion is at odds with the opinions of the power-brokers on the team. FO thinks wide-spread basketball IQ and versatile playmaking in the vein of OKC is the way to go, BI wants a classic PG to feed him shots.

    It's worth noting that Zion is top 10 in the league in 3pt shots created this season, and that BI had plenty of 3pt c&s opportunities and just turned them down so he could dribble into a 2.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by P_B_&_G View Post
    Was it also Griff that got an extension or just the coaching staff?
    I believe it was Griff as well, yes.

  19. #19
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    Didn?t JJ Redick once call Griff a snake oil salesman?
    That was bogus... Reddick's performance tanked and we had to move him, but he couldn't get traded to the teams he wanted because they didn't want him on account of him being overpaid and not playing well. Griff traded him to the highest bidder because that's what was in the Pelicans best interest. And Reddick threw a fit because he didn't go where he wanted. Griff did what he was supposed to do.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Last season he said everything was pretty good and injuries were the main problem so we had to just stay the course because the sample size of the main guys wasnt sufficient.

    This year he says we've seen enough of a sample size, admits that playing all three at once led to losing minutes, and says we need to improve urgently.

    If you think those two pressers are identical then you have some bias so strong no truth could penetrate it.

    Griff peddles platitudes and has done for years. This is the first time in a while where hes seemed even semi legitimate.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    Watch the actual presser, not an out of context twitter clip.

    Of course Griff isn't going to come out and say ''YEAH WE SUCK, WE TRADIN ALL THESE GUYS'' because that would look awful for him, make him massively unpopular among the players, and probably annoy the fanbase too because not all of them are as invested as people online.

    But last season he was all about staying the course, hoping to get healthier and seeing how things go. This season he openly said that we have enough of a sample size to make moves, must do so urgently, and openly admitted that we lost the minutes when all three of the 'big three' were on the court.

    If you think he said that, or anything even close to it, last year, you're misremembering.

  22. #22
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Watch the actual presser, not an out of context twitter clip.

    Of course Griff isn't going to come out and say ''YEAH WE SUCK, WE TRADIN ALL THESE GUYS'' because that would look awful for him, make him massively unpopular among the players, and probably annoy the fanbase too because not all of them are as invested as people online.

    But last season he was all about staying the course, hoping to get healthier and seeing how things go. This season he openly said that we have enough of a sample size to make moves, must do so urgently, and openly admitted that we lost the minutes when all three of the 'big three' were on the court.

    If you think he said that, or anything even close to it, last year, you're misremembering.
    Sure sounds like he has been shown the light that we do not have a "Big 3" currently.

  23. #23
    20+ years of pain ragincaucasian's Avatar
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    Top 3 things to do if I were GM:

    Get rid of Willie (Not gonna happen because they just signed him to an extension).

    Get rid of B.I. (Overpaid for a midrange merchant who provides no spacing for our best player.)

    Get a stretch big (Use some of those stockpiled picks to trade for somebody).

  24. #24


    Below are some transcribed answer to DG questions. Close to verbatim, might be a few errors but it'll be close enough. Not transcribing all 18 minutes but just important questions.

    Thoughts on the season overall:
    ''Yeah, so, obviously, disappointed to be doing this today. I think the 49 wins that you alluded to are part of several things that happened this year that would have lead you to believe we would be playing deep into the summer at times. There were times where, very large chunks of the season for months at a time, we had the 2nd best net rating in the league and were it not for Boston we would have looked like the best team for stretched, and I also think we had stretches where you could see a lot of room for growth and improvement we needed to make. Unfortunately we continued to have injury issues and certainly had a big one at the wrong time but there's so many positives we take out of the season. It's really unfortunate that the season ended the way it did, you'd like a season to crescendo into a moment that lets everybody know how good your season really was. We had the number one road record in the NBA, we were 6th in defensive rating and net rating. We had moments where we showed what we could be but I think we showed it in fits and starts, which is disappointing. We're in a historically good Western Conference - I read something the other day, it's the first time a conference has had 10 times above .500 at the same time. Our record would have been good for 3rd in the West last year, would have been good for 3rd in the East this year.

    It's a very competitive conference and so I think whereas in the past we've always erred on the side of continuity and our takeaway has always been 'let's see this group healthy', I think we've seen it enough. We've had opportunity to see Zion play a career high in games. We saw it for segments of time well enough to understand that we have a lot of work to do and again because it's a historically good Western conference there're teams that didn't even make the playoffs that are going to get radically better this off-season and we need to do the same. I think you'll see a real sense of urgency from all of us to do that.''

    Thoughts on Willie Green
    ''I think the coaching staff did a really good job with a really difficult situation. When you've got guys in and out of the lineup like we did that's harder than just having guys not play. The first part of the season we really performed well under adversity and that propelled us to some wins that probably got us further ahead towards the end. We went through a stretch where we lost Jose and BI at the wrong time and then we lost Z at the wrong time and throughout that Willie stayed very authentically himself and stayed in a place where guys knew what he was going to bring to the table everyday. But at the same time I think that Willie would be the first to tell you there's room for them to grow and get better as well and I expect that will happen as well.''

    Sample size of CJ+Zion+BI, and how we lost those minutes
    ''Well the making more than 30 million means they're good players. If you look at the games that are still in the playoffs, they all have multiple players that make money that are really good and can carry the team forward. So you certainly don't come at it saying we're going to build around one of them. Certainly when two of the three were on the court, we won those minutes and when all three of them were on the court we tended not to. That's a lot to do with what we support that group with and giving them the ancillary pieces. I think knowing now, because we've seen the group and we know what those things are, we'll be able to address some of that and get better that way, but certainly we have to be open to a lot of different things.''

    Do you think you need one or two more difference makers to win the West?
    ''I'd take 7 or 8 more difference makers. No, I mean, I don't know that it's difference makers as much as it is pieces that make the difference makers we have fit better. We've got the kind of players that everyone wants on good teams. I think one thing you did see is that our secondary players are, our ancillary pieces are very good and well thought of. There's going to be a lot of room for growth for them. There was a period of time where Jordan Hawkins was 2nd in ROTY balloting and people thought we had stolen something, and we're really excited about him moving forward. He's going to be a difference maker eventually. I think we have a lot of pieces like that. A couple of years ago we would have said the same thing about Trey and Herb, so I think we have a lot of pieces like that, and we have a lot of draft assets that we can leverage to get better and I think to your point, yes, you need more difference makers but what you need is more people who understand exactly what's being asked of them on a regular basis as well. We've got to do a better job of making that clear.''

    On BI, extension talks, and his season:
    ''I saw his comments [about it being his worst season as a Pelicans] and I really appreciate Brandon because he takes personal responsibility and he cares so much. I also love the fact that he loves this franchise, he loves this city, and he wants to be here, and we're grateful we've built something that people want to be part of. I think Mrs Benson and her team should be proud of what they've built, that we have guys that want to be a part of this. At the same time, I think his willingness to take ownership of things makes you feel better about the human he is, that's the one thing I'm proud of. I think we've gotten the people part of things right to an enormous degree on this roster and I expect that that will carry us through the season.''

    Do you see a world where BI might take less than the max?
    ''We've never talked about it and I haven't talked to him at all. I just, I had a great deal of appreciation for what he tried to do in light of the situation and playing through what he played through and coming back in the way he did. He was really thrown into a difficult situation. To be injured for a month and then to come back and play in the crucible of playoff basketball, that's not easy for anyone. You'd like to think it's plug and play but one of the things that BI and Z have had to do is carry the team when the other guy is out. It hasn't happened often that both were out. I think it was a really difficult end of the season for Brandon but I think it was difficult for everyone, I think CJ encapsulated that well last night in his 20 minutes.''

    You keep talking about people being the right people, and I think we do see that positivity, but with regards to overall philosophy how do you balance that with the analytics, stats, wins and losses, that might say something else?
    ''Yeah, well, numbers don't say anything to be clear. Numbers prove a point or disprove a point but they don't give you any answers. The better you are with numbers, the better questions you ask. I'm not convinced we've asked the right questions yet, and we're going to continue to do that, but in terms of balancing what people think it looks like with what it should be, you're never going to pivot all the way from one side to the other. Even if we made changes, we would make changes with similarly high character human beings that are about the right things because that formula for us is solid. One of the things when you ask about the 49 wins, our foundation is really good and we're competing in a historically good Western Conference. You come out of a series where a really good team waylays you and makes you think you won 9 games and not 49 games, the reality is you won 49 games and did a lot of good things. To a fault, we've probably erred on the side of continuity because we hadn't seen it, and I don't think we have to do that, but I also don't think there's any subset of numbers that is the answer.''

    Thoughts about trying to add another star-ish player
    ''Well, again, we just talked about and Christian just asked about the three guys playing together, those are 3 damned good basketball players, so you can go and get three random stars and put them together and that's not necessarily going to work. There's a second apron tax team that got swept out of the playoffs too. There's a second apron tax team that didn't make the playoffs. They got a lot of star power so it's not that. It's, you have to get the right fit and the right pieces at the right time and to some degree you have to get lucky. I think the thing OKC has done incredibly well is that those kids got to develop in an environment where winning didn't matter for a couple years and our team was consistently trying to win, so the development curve looks different. But if you look at what we've done, we went 36 wins, 42 wins, 49 wins, that's consistent year on year growth and that's exciting. The problem is that we can't look at that and say we're home, because the West is getting so much better so fast. I appreciate the question but at the same time I don't think it's more about the star quality, it's more about fit and the right pieces.

    General thoughts on 3pt shooting, given the correlation between taking more and winning
    ''I mean, the right number of 3s to take is the number you have to take to make more than your opponent. There were games we got outscored by 30 from the 3pt line at times. That's not a formula for success. At the same time, we were 6th in defensive rating so we were taking away a lot of efficient shots, in theory. I think offensively it's, yes you wanna take more threes but you want an offense that efficiently creates those looks, and I think we saw that even in the OKC series. We had a lot of open threes, and guys who have made them all year missed a lot of threes, and then they had guys who missed threes all year make a lot. You want actions that yield good looks and I think we had that, and you need to have a better job of getting people to lean into that shot and understand that it's good for them. Again, the coaching staff worked tirelessly at it and I think they increased the number and quality of looks from 3, and we just have to get more of the pieces on the floor to make them.

    Point guard?
    ''Yeah I think having a pure point guard is great, but just having more basketball IQ on the court in general, it's less the specific of a pure point guard and more about overall basketball intelligence and approach to th game. SGA is a score-first point guard and I don't know I'd call him a pure point, but they're getting the most efficient look on a regular basis with the way they're running their stuff. So it can be one individual but it can also be system and we've done both but yes, I would like more basketball IQ for sure.''

    Is Zion on the verge of elite?
    ''I think he's been fully elite and run through the door of that at times. I think he's on the verge of being sustainably available as elite, and that's what's exciting.''

    When get got Zion we were told it's Jrue Holiday's team, and then you spoke about BI being all-NBA potential. Is it time to lean into Zion being that guy and to say that the pieces around him at the most important thing?
    ''I don't think you lean into one person ever, doing that. I just don't think any team playing that intends to keep playing is going to say they're built around one person. Denver can say they're built around Jokic but Jamal Murray's making gamewinning shots. So I think if you look at it, it takes multiple star quality players to win and we've got to find the right fit of that.''

    Some good answers, some very not good answers. I get the feeling that's he's being as honest as he can be without committing to anything, which is maybe sensible on paper but annoying as hell to read, specially when it comes to trying to dodge points about BI and the numbers.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I believe it was Griff as well, yes.
    In that case he may be more comfortable taking more risks to get to the next level.

    What if BI just really wants to stay and is willing to take less than a max deal? What do you think that would look like in order to be team friendly and allow flexibility in adding a center with a better fit?

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