He did say all three are very good basketball players, but he also conceded that fit is sometimes more important than stars and said that we need more basketball IQ lmaoOriginally Posted by PELICANSFAN
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He did say all three are very good basketball players, but he also conceded that fit is sometimes more important than stars and said that we need more basketball IQ lmao
Basketball.
I'd take BI on like, 3yrs $90m probably. Still making $30 but doesn't put us over the second apron because it's about what he's already making, and it's both long enough to provide value if we move him but short enough that he can still sign a big contract after IF he takes those leaps.
Wouldn't be my favourite move ever, but if he did that I'd get it and wouldn't think it was the end of the world.
The problem is, all it takes is one team somewhere offering him the real max, and I think he's going to get that.
Agreed, I think someone would throw a bucket of money at him and he would split. But you never know!
And the problem is, that to find out whether that's true or not you'd have to wait until NEXT offseason. And then if someone does offer it, you can't move him. You either match it or lose him for nothing.
That's why you have to do it now. Can't risk losing him for nothing at all next year, can't bid against yourself and given him that painful contract now.
Do you believe Griff? He said this last year that he was going to be aggressive? Not much changed. I hope he will be aggressive. Change the coaching staff at least if won’t get rid of Willie.
Golly if he goes after Klay Thompson
That interview certainly suggests that Griff realizes that changes need to be made, and that the fit of our 3 "star" players is not ideal. Gives me more hope for the off season for sure.
Perhaps the Front Office finally told him to get a move on something better .
Well, it's well documented that he went hard for Lowry. So he tried to be aggressive. I would bet he tries again this year. If it ends up being good moves or not will have to just play out.
Rewatching some of the other exit interviews now.
Zion talking about how frustrated he was with the injury because he'd spent more time this year working on his post-game recovery and treatment and it had been working, and he says he really thought we had that game if he had stayed in. Says he improved so much on defense through the year because he was watching ''Jose, Dyson, Naji, and of course 5'' and realised ''I had to get my **** together'' because ''I can't be the weak link''. Mentions the play in the Lakers game where he blocked Lebron - asked if he could have done that a year ago, he said ''athletically, yes, but that's was more IQ; on that play he had Jose guarding him or somebody, and looking at where his eyes were, if he was going to pass, that was more IQ. I've grown defensively with my IQ.''
Says he liked what he saw when he started taking more of his jumpers so it's something he's going to keep leaning on going forward.
His message to the fans is ''to the city, we appreciate the love and support and me and the guys are going to do what we need to do to bring the city what they deserve.''
JV's interview:
Can you talk about your future, would you like to be back?
''It's early and now I've got to wind down and spend some time with my family and see my kids. That's all the focus. Then we'll make a decision.''
Ups and downs with playing time
''I said it before, I'm a team player. Whatever it takes, the big picture is winning. We didn't do that this year, enough, but you know the big picture is winning. You have to fit your role, the minutes; as I said to the coaching staff, I'm here to do everything to win the games. Stats aren't important when you look at the record.''
Since you got here, we have won more and more. Do you think you were part of that culture, whether you return or not?
''I hope I helped. You tell me. Do I help? You know, I did everything that I can to increase winning, to be a winner, to be successful. Now, you know, what people see. . .''
On Zion's growth
''He was a professional. He really took the time to be better on and off the court, took care of his body. He was healthy the majority of the season, that was the big question whether he would stay healthy and he did. The season is long, playing heavy minutes, you're going to have bumps and bruises and the majority of the time he was healthy. And his basketball is tremendous. His biggest question is staying on the court and he did it.''
On not missing any games this year
''I'm really happy about that. As tired as I am, I'm very happy. Prioritise being available every day, every game, and being tough. Playing through some small injuries, pains, and you know, I should get a painkillers deal. [...] The game's, you know, yo uget bruises and bumps and sore spots but you treat them, get ready for the game, and go play. There was no other mindset for me - just going out there and leaving everything.''
Jordan Hawkins
First year as a pro reflections
''I mean, it was a blessing to hear my name called last June, that was one of the greatest days of my life. To put on a jersey and play on an NBA floor I'm thankful for the opportunity first and foremost because I know not a lot of people get to be here, especially where I'm from, so it was a blessing to be around this group of guys with this coaching staff in my first year.''
How are you going to approach the summer?
''This is a very important summer for me. I know I need to take that step, make that leap that I know I'm capable of doing so it's very important. [...] Working on my body, becoming a better shooter, a better shooter off the dribble, finding different ways to create my shot.''
What about defense?
''It's very important, I think I learned this year just how important the defensive end is, so that's probably going to be top of the list for sure.''
Learning from Vets
''I had a great chance to see CJ and Larry and JV, how they carry themselves, and even Trey too, he carries himself like a vet too, the way he gets his work done. So I was watching those guys, I'm very observant, what their routines were.''
Matt Ryan
Emotions on getting that deal formalised
''It was about time. That's how I felt. It was a great feeling, right before the season ended to get that deal situation and get some financial security and get the feeling that I'm wanted here. That's always a great feeling. It was my first year being in the same spot all year and that was great for me, and that's the progression that I want to keep taking to build on who I am as a player.''
Getting to showcase his skills early in the year
''No doubt, in a league that looks after shooting and values it, I showed that I can shoot with the best of them. That's the confidence I have in myself and the belief, I showed that before I got a couple of injuries which was unfortunate, but I was out there. I think I was leading the league in shooting. So I have plans this summer for getting better at deficiencies, just like every player, and coming back strong next year.''
What does it mean to finally lock down a real contract
''That's the belief you have to have, that you're one of the best to play well. Going from Exhibit 10 to 2 way and now locking in a roster spot, that's the progression that I wanted to have. Continue growing and getting better - being one of the 450 is a blessing and an honour but it's just the beginning for me. I believe that.''
Key area to improve in the offseason
''I think it's obvious as a shooter and being a slightly lighter shade of skin, you want to work on your defense and taking care of that side of the ball. When you come back from injury like I did there's a little uncertainty about if I could go out there and be in rhythm and compete on defense and make shots, continuing to build an all round game - dribbling, in the weight room, conditioning, defense, it's going to be a huge summer for me.''
Thoughts on the close to the year - 49 games won but getting swept
''Well, you never wanna get swept that's never fun, especially the way we did. I don't think we put our best foot forward in this series. But the season as a whole, 49 games, always being in playoff contention in a stacked conference despite having gives in and out of the rotations. It's a rollercoaster, it's the NBA, but winning 49 games after the injuries we had but it's a true testament to the roster that we had and the trust that everyone had with each other. From the outside looking in when I wasn't here over the last few years, New Orleans seemed on the rise, and now I'm part of it it's a blessing to be here and help take it to the next level.''
Trey Murphy
Assessment on your season?
''I think overall it was a decent season. 49 games, can we just say first, winning 49 games is not an easy feat in the NBA. If we were in the Eastern Conference we'd be the 3rd seed. Obviously wanted it to end differently but overall team success was good. I was able to contribute to that as well, and it was my first time having a major injury so coming back from that was something I had to deal with.''
Each year you've been here, the team's won more games. How close are we?
''Pretty close. Once again, 49 games and that wasn't a fluke especially with all the guys we had out throughout the season, could've won more games. But we have a lot of guys on this roster who can put the ball in the basket and guard and do things to help winning.''
Do you see your own trajectory to grow
''Oh, I know where I can go. With how hard I work and overall drive, I think the biggest thing for me is still staying working every single day and not thinking too much about the future. I'm going to be a really good player in this league and it's a matter of time until that shows.''
Extension?
''Obviously we're going to try to do what's best for me and the Pelicans and so, I hope we can get something done but at the end of the day it's not about money. I want to play basketball.''
Willie's growth as a coach
''He's definitely grown a lot. We didn't speak a ton my rookie year, partly due to me not playing as much, not being in the rotation, but as time has gone past we've talked a lot more and opened up a lot more and I appreciate him being there.''
How different do you think it would have been if Zion doesn't get hurt?
''There's a lot of ifs. You can try to make up and think about but it doesn't matter, he was hurt and that's part of the season. Obviously we'd love to have him there but we've had to play without guys the entire season and I'm not going to play in fairytale situations.''
Zion's growth this year
''Z definitely grew a lot this season and his overall work ethic, his communication with his teammates, and taking care of his body. This season he was on top of everything and being out that time last year he saw the trajectory we were on and he wanted to get back to that.''
How do you feel about the questions surrounding the BI+Z+CJ core?
''That's not for me to answer, in all honesty. Obviously we won a lot of games but that's not something that's up to me. I love playing with all three of those guys and whatever happens, happens. It's a business, it's the NBA.''
Go back - what would your agent and family say with you saying the extension isn't all about the money?
''I'm not going to act like its not about the money at all, that would be stupid of me, it's a chance to have generational wealth and do things for my family that I haven't been able to. So obviously it means a lot. But I'm not going to be super money hungry to the point where I think I'm being selfish, let me say that.''
Herb said you grew a lot on the defensive end - thoughts?
''Being quite honest it was the Lakers game in LA, probably one of the worst defensive games I've ever had and I had a pit in my stomach and I was like Im never going to feel like that again. Honestly, having Herb behind you when you're on the ball makes it a lot easier, I just send everybody to Herb.''
Your favourite development from Herb?
''Shooting 40% from 3 is probably one of them. Dating back to my rookie year he wouldn't look at the rim and now he's shooting 40% from 3, that's a testament to how hard he works.''
Your goals for the summer
''Overall strength. Staying healthy, continuing to work on my knee, making sure I'm in the best position possible for next season with my knee and overall game. I don't want to come back as a one dimensional player, I want to still grow my game and be the player I can be.''
Your rebounding improved down the stretch. Was it as simple as effort?
''Yep. Just go get the ball. That's it. Finish possessions. Trying to win is the biggest thing, just competing.''
Herb
Initial thoughts after the season
''Speaking for everybody, I think everyone is disappointed in the way things ended but we did improve, competed, and played really hard this year. You've got to be okay with going out and putting forth your best effort and coming up short.''
On his offensive improvement
''I just trust the work. Staying in the gym, continue to just work and play with a ton of confidence.''
Shooting goals or targets?
''If I come in and I feel good about the 10 jumpers, I move on but if I don't I stay in and make as many as I need to.''
Have you thought about what you're going to work on this summer?
''No sir, not at all.''
Do you feel like this is an organisation on the cusp of doing great things?
''For sure, as long as we continue to work the sky is the limit. We have to come back in the summer, continue to work hard and build on what we've been building.''
CJ+BI+Z combo
''I think, you know, they're a dynamic group and they all bring different things to the table that compliment each other. They're all phenomenal on the offensive end and they compete on the defensive end. I don't know what the future holds, but I hope we keep them together.''
Zion playing in 70 games
''It was beautiful to see. A lot of people criticised him and it was beautiful to see him get to work and not worry about what people may have been saying and just going out on the court and proving himself night in and night out.
What would it mean for you to get All Defense
''It's been cool [to get the support], I thank everyone who has supported me. But it's a lot, I come in every day, seeing 'Not On Herb' t shirts, it's cool but I tell guys to calm it down. Hopefully I can make a defensive team and that'd be a first and something I can continue to build on.''
On Zion's progress through the season and his mentality
''I think for a team, any player, as the season goes, you grow and get better. I wouldn't say I was my best self at the beginning of the year. Over time, as you get closer with teammates, you learn so many things about people in the times where it gets tough on the court, shows who they really are. Z is a great dude, he's all about ball, he wants to win, and with a guy like that on your team especially with his skillset, the sky's the limit.''
Not doing a full transcript of BI, I'm doing it shorter like I did Zion's, because BI talks very quietly and is constantly speaking into his own chest, and at a very slow pace, so it's actually annoying to listen to him sometimes.
Asked about how the season ended and he says ''every story don't have a good ending'', and says that ''injuries at certain points in our schedule messed us up'' and says we can do things ''internally to make us a better ball club''.
Says he believes him and Zion can work long term together because ''we both care about basketball and we both care about winning'' so ''if we figure out what we really want'' they can do it. Says it won't work without communication.
Says it's hard to measure potential year to year because the roster always changes and he can't give an answer because he doesn't know who's going to be there next year. ''I don't know the possibilities of anything.''
Asked about potential, he says ''there's some things we need to do before we reach that level''.
Asked about him taking fewer threes, he says that he does need to take more but says ''if you look back to my all-star year we had Lonzo Ball and Jrue Holiday who was finding people on the wing and getting downhill and we had guys who knew the game and played more than other people and knew people's spots, most of my 3pt shooting was catch and shoot and now it's a lot of creating for yourself, especially with the team right now it's a lot of creating for yourself, so if you look back and then look at our roster'' that explains a lot. Says adding a point guard would ''definitely be helpful, for sure.''
On the combination of him with CJ and Z, says that ''we gotta understand that talent isn't going to win basketball games, it'll win some but we've got to put things together to make sure we're all effective together at all times and that'll take communication''. Says that when CJ was joking about them missing his calls, that was CJ trying to figure things out and they'll need to get together over the summer to see how things can work together.
Says Willie has to manage a lot of different personalities and has done a good job keeping it positive whether things are good or bad, over the years. Says WG has improved in practices year on year.
When asked how he avoids making contract extension stuff personal despite his good relationship with Griff, he says he doesn't know because he's used to ''putting the work in'' and will ''let my agent talk about it and Griff will tell me how he feel about the situation but the work has to show and the results have to show, I'll worry about that.''
He still seems super complimentary of BI. I have a hard time seeing him trading him away.
He's complimentary of everyone. It's not possible for him to move anyone if we're going just by what he said.
But he admitted that the minutes with all three were losses, said we had enough of a sample size, told us that we need to radically get better, that he's ''open to a lot of different things'', dodged committing anything to the extension with him, pushed back against BI's claim that we definitely need a point guard, and, this was significant for me -
After talking multiple times about how we need more IQ on the team, mentioning fit half a dozen times, he said
andYou want actions that yield good looks and I think we had that, and you need to have a better job of getting people to lean into that shot and understand that it's good for them. Again, the coaching staff worked tirelessly at it and I think they increased the number and quality of looks from 3, and we just have to get more of the pieces on the floor to make them.
These quotes both seem like direct shots at the one shooter on this roster who refuses to take threes at the same rate as everyone else and insists on going against Willie Green's publicly stated commitment to focus more on 3pt shooting.A couple of years ago we would have said the same thing about Trey and Herb, so I think we have a lot of pieces like that, and we have a lot of draft assets that we can leverage to get better and I think to your point, yes, you need more difference makers but what you need is more people who understand exactly what's being asked of them on a regular basis as well.
No GM will ever take direct, named shots at a player or explicitly say before negotiations that they're getting rid of him for certain, but these subliminals seem pretty overt to me.
Bobby Marks' New Orleans Pelicans Offseason Guide
Full transcript of the above from section 3 onwards - bolded are parts that I think are fairly important.
Section 3: Financial Position and Cap Space
''Now, here is the thing. Keeping your core, together. That means Zion, CJ McCollum, and then Brandon Ingram who will enter the last year of his contract. Is eligible to sign a 4yr, $208m max extension starting in July. CJ's owed $64m, Zion's got $163m, you've got Valanciunas that you need to address. If you keep your two picks, which is unlikely, you're at $161m in salary, luxury tax is $171, and I think it's interesting with the luxury tax and we're basically going to start shifting the mindset when it comes to luxury tax, certainly starting in 2025-26 because it's not a big deal to be in the, yes you'll miss the tax distribution but starting next year whcih is 25-26, the luxury tax penalties for the first two brackets get significantly lower. So instead of paying $1.50 for a dollar, you're paying dollar for dollar. It's when you get into that third tier where it gets expensive. So I wouldn't pay much attention - I know New Orleans has never paid the tax but that doesn't bother me as much as certainly where the apron rules are. So we talked about the luxury tax, where they are, they'll get some flexibility if they give back that, defer that pick, so you'll have probably oh, $13-14 million below the luxury tax. ''
Section 4: Jonas Valanciunas
''The big question will be what do you do with Valanciunas. Who was your centre. How do you replace him if he's not on the roster okay? You basically have the $12.9 part of the $12.9 Non Tax Mid Level; Valanciunas is one of three centres, and this is not a good centre crop - Nic Claxton, Isaiah Hartenstein, and Valanciunas are the three top centres. But does that mean he's going to get a $20m contract? I don't think so, he's probably a $13-15m guy, as we've seen centres rarely get paid in free agency. Certainly a centre that's got a bunch of wear and tear on his body, his rebounds have come down a little here. New Orleans 23rd in FG% allowed at the rim so can you get a shot blocking C in free agency or the draft? So keep an eye on what happens with Valanciunas.''
Brandon Ingram
''Brandon Ingram is going to be interesting, and I wrote about it because when you have a player that's 26 years old that averaged 20/4/4 in the past five seasons, usually it's a no brainer that you are going to write him a 4 year $208m max extension. However, and I know he came back from injury, and you give him credit for doing so, but he was ineffective in the Laker game when he got benched. He was ineffective this whole series against OKC. Lu Dort basically put him in a straightjacket. He was a no-show for Game 4. How does the injury come into play? Are you comfortable paying him $50m a year when he has, I got his, I mean, his games played - 55, 45, 64 over the last three seasons. He's missed 154 games since 2016-17 - that's going to be an, and I know there's a lot of Brandon Ingram fans out there and I see it on twitter, he's got his own fanclub, but that's going to be the million dollar decision as far as what you do. And if you don't extend him you are going to have to trade him. That's the reality of the situation. If he doesn't get an extension this summer you are going to have to trade him because you are not walking into the season or, you could trade him closer to the deadline but you are going to have turmoil come training camp. He will get paid next year. That is the reality of it. Big wings get paid in free agency. Will he get max money? I don't know, we'll see after another year, but he will get paid. The extension rules are changing come this off-season to where you can extend in an extend-and-trade for 120%, so his number will be near max. You can add more years than past. So he could actually get traded and then extend with his current club instead of playing out the year. We mention Valanciunas, keep an eye on what happens with Ingram. I think the interesting thing as far as from an extension standpoint, besides Ingram is Trey.''
Trey Murphy
''14.7pts, 38% from 3, him and Herb Jones together are really really good on the court. What is a number for him? It's going to be probably north of $20m - are you comfortable playing $22, $23m to your 6th man? What happens, can you move off Ingram, maybe you get a more traditional point guard, slide CJ to the 2, do you put Zion at the 5? Do you have Herb and Trey? So there's a lot of different mechanics that New Orleans can go into in this off season here. [...] Murphy's going to be interesting because rookie extensions, unless you're a max guy, tend to get played out until October 21st - the last day to sign an extension here. ''
Alvarado
''He's outplayed that $6.9m contract in 2022, plus rating of 17.5 per 100. Woo, goodness gracious. So he's got a $2m team option, he's eligible to get extended, I would be stunned if his option is declined and they make him an RFA.''
Overall stance:
''So keep an eye on what happens with Valanciunas, what happens with Ingram, what happens with Murphy, what happens in trade dialogues because this is going to be one of the most active off-seasons that we're going to see. There's a lot of teams sitting at what I called the p***ed off table - you have the Lakers there, Golden State there, Phoenix there, I think New Orleans is probably at the kids table, you might have the Clippers there soon, Milwaukee probably soon. There's going to be a lot of action just because it's not a great free agent class, there's so many teams in the apron that are going to be looking to get off money, there's the in-between teams that are going to take advantage of teams that can't go out and make trades, so I would keep an eye on New Orleans to be active this off season. They were active at the trade deadline, I would expect them to be active. Team needs, starting Centre, gotta get a traditional point guard. 6 tradeable firsts over the next 7 years, they've got their own first this year, that Laker pick in 2025, which when they defer likely they have the right to swap firsts with Milwaukee in 2026, they have an unprotected first from Milwaukee in 27, and a first that if it falls in the top 4 they get a couple seconds available. All in all that is the state of the union in New Orleans. Good regular season, poor way to end it especially losing at home.''
''It all comes down to health with Zion, what do you do with Brandon Ingram, what do you do with your C position, and working out an extension with Trey Murphy.''
See how you guys nailed me to the cross for saying Ingram is getting paid, and Mr. Marks says the same thing. lol. That aside, he also touched on something that I also mentioned.
There's going to be a lot of action on the trade market considering how many teams are in limbo with talented players. This could mean we possibly get a star quality player to pair with Zion, and Ingram. Or, what some of you may prefer, moving Ingram and getting a really good deal because of the desperation some teams will be in with disgruntled top talent. Maybe Ingram agrees to take less, to acquire another big gun.
On a side note, Marks doesn't seem all that high on JV. What do you make of that Pelicanidae? Curious of your thoughts on bringing him back, and if it should be a priority.
Also Interesting.. Thoughts on CJ vs Klay, who do you guys think has more to offer at this stage of their careers?
He also said that we have maybe $14m worth of cap space, so I'm not sure what world you're picturing us getting those ''talented players'' that are ''in limbo'' without sending something OUT and if you think any of those teams are giving up major difference makers for CJ McCollum then we're in vastly different mindsets.
As for whether BI will get the contract, that's not the contention. I even said as much myself on this very page of this very thread, where I said someone will offer him the max and if we waited to extend him hoping for cheap, we'd have to match it or let him walk for nothing. My point is that no player in history with his resume has received that offer before, and I think there's a good reason for that - players with his resume aren't worth it. Whether some team will make that mistake or not isn't the point.
Without re-hashing that argument though, because we both know where we stand on that, the JV thing.
I think there's legitimate criticism on JV (it's true that our defFG% wasn't great, for example, and he isn't a stretch 5 which we would have in a perfect world) but you also have to consider the context of the team. If our defensive FG% was that bad at the rim, how were were a top 6 defense? Simple: our scheme deters rim attempts, so even if people shoot well when they get there, they don't get there very often, so it's not really an exploit of JV.
Despite that legitimate criticism of JV, there are things he gives to this team that we will direly need to replace if he leaves - rebounding being the most obvious thing - and it's clear that we're capable of constructing a good defense despite JV's flaws in that area (which is also why I don't mind trading BI for the currently not-great-defensively Jalen Duren: I trust WG to construct a good defense despite an imperfect defensive big).
In the end, I think we're probably not going to retain JV, and honestly that's probably a good thing given that WG hates playing him in key moments. I like JV a lot but I'd rather us have someone we could actually invest in properly and give the important clutch time minutes. The bigger issue is that I don't really trust Griff to replace him with someone good, and unless we get a major name at C I can easily imagine WG starting Nance or something which is basically a concept designed to make me cry.
I didn't finish reading your response.. but of course we're sending something out. C'mon now. smh.
CJ, absolutely.
Far more dynamic shooter at this stage, particularly because he can make his own shot still even if he requires some other good players on the court to help give him the space to do that (space he had when Zion was playing, but didn't in the OKC series without Zion, for example) and while they both suck on defense, at least CJ has an in-between game and facilitates a little.
Klay is the 3&D guy in some ways, and his 3 is no longer as potent as it once was and the D has fallen off a cliff. Hasn't posted a positive BPM since 3 seasons ago, REB% has gone down each of the last 3 years, TOV% has gone up each of the last 3 years, and GS was actually worse with him on court 2 of the last 3 seasons.
If you'd have even finished the sentence, you'd have seen the actual point I was making regarding WHAT other things we might have to send out.
C'mon now. Smh.
I might cry a bit as well regarding Nance, even though I like him as a player. I don't like small ball. Your stance may be different, and others but I'm a bit old fashioned. I like traditional bigs that can give you a bucket on the block, and protect the paint. There was, in my opinion, a false narrative that small ball was a more effective way to win games in the 4th. This idea seemed to proliferate after Coach Dantoni had some success with it on the Suns. Then Eventually the Warriors.
I don't see any great alternatives, but I suppose that can change since unlikely opportunities present themselves when trading starts.
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