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Thread: I agree with Jake here...

  1. #1
    Hollygrove 4 Life DroopyDawg's Avatar
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    I agree with Jake here...

    Like him or hate him... I can't say that he's wrong.

    Last edited by DroopyDawg; 04-29-2024 at 08:00 AM.

  2. #2
    Says he thinks Ingram will be re signed and no major changes incoming

    Ingrams shot chart is terrible

    Players don't buy into the offense..

    Would like to see Hawkins , but the coach didn't prepare him in the reg season and now can't throw him into the fire

    If CJ can't make a shot play Dyson

    So basically he talks about the issues this team has, but thinks the front Office will just use Zion to save the day
    Last edited by Mount_Zion; 04-28-2024 at 11:36 AM.

  3. #3
    Yep. Things probably won’ t change. Gayle and the board just happy to be in playoffs. Agrees Willie has no clue how to develop talent or rotations.

  4. #4
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    If Ingram is resigned, it has to be for less money than we thought he'd get. Surely he's lost money with this performance.

    Personally I think we should be exploring ways to move on from him, but not by doing something desperate and making the team worse.

  5. #5
    The thing is I think Ingram could force some team like Detroit into paying him. He's not worth that contract, but all it takes is one team and this team will not just let him walk.

    You have to move him though, even if it's for less than they would like. Locking yourself into that deal is a death nail. Zion is the franchise player and Ingram doesn't fit.
    Last edited by Mount_Zion; 04-28-2024 at 01:42 PM.

  6. #6

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mount_Zion View Post
    The thing is I think Ingram could force some team like Detroit into paying him. He's not worth that contract, but all it takes is one team and this team will not just let him walk.

    You have to move him though, even if it's for less than they would like. Locking yourself into that deal is a death nail. Zion is the franchise player and Ingram doesn't fit.
    That's the rub. You have to choose between them, it's fairly clear that relying on them both is an endless cycle to failure. They don't play particularly well when they're together and apart, you have a team that's not really committing to either of their strengths.

    So when you're forced to choose between them, you have Zion - who is a better player on a friendlier contract - or Ingram, who's worse and will cost more.

    The choice has been made for us by circumstance and the salary cap. If Griff can't see it, he's an idiot.
    Basketball.

  8. #8
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mount_Zion View Post
    The thing is I think Ingram could force some team like Detroit into paying him. He's not worth that contract, but all it takes is one team and this team will not just let him walk.

    You have to move him though, even if it's for less than they would like. Locking yourself into that deal is a death nail. Zion is the franchise player and Ingram doesn't fit.
    Locking yourself into what deal exactly? Do you still think Ingram is getting 50 mil a year?

  9. #9
    Snarky Optimistic Guy msusousaphone's Avatar
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    The next six months or so we will be inundated with all kinds of bogus takes on why the sky is falling and it will mostly ignore the actual reason for why the sky always falls......injuries. But it's boring to just say "injuries" and "stay healthy" over and over again. Season after season. So we create the lesser issues.

    Brandon Ingram is like AD. He can't carry a franchise through the postseason alone. He is an AMAZING compliment #2 guy to someone who can. I have never seen anyone claim BI is THAT guy. So to take him when he is forced to be THAT guy and is failing at it is disingenuous. Same thing with CJ when we try to force him to be the #2 guy.

    There isn't a single team in this league that would win a series without their top guy. If we had Zion and SGA were the one injured, we would sweep the Thunder. Without Jokic, the Nuges would be out in weeks. We all know this. It's just boring to say it over and over again so we embellish these lesser things.

    The only question this franchise needs to really be asking is "can we keep everyone healthy?"

    Ignore everything else. All that other stuff is to generate clicks because the reality is too boring and simple.
    BI, Zion, and CJ had a net rating of +3 when on the court together. BI and Zion had a +13.4, BI and CJ had a +13.2, Zion and CJ was just +5.4.

    BI and Zion worked. BI and CJ worked. It was CJ and Zion and all three together that didn't work.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    Brandon Ingram is like AD. He can't carry a franchise through the postseason alone. He is an AMAZING compliment #2 guy to someone who can. I have never seen anyone claim BI is THAT guy. So to take him when he is forced to be THAT guy and is failing at it is disingenuous.
    I respect you far too much as a poster and I've seen you on this forum for far too many years to think you believe that for a second.

    We've both seen multiple people claim that. Especially when the Phoenix series was going on a few years back.

    In any case, I completely disagree that ''all that other stuff is to generate clicks''. We are 5 full seasons deep into Zion and BI as a tandem, and have won zero playoff series and fewer playoff games than fingers on one hand. Whether you like it or not, whether you think it's injuries or not, this team has NOT won anything. And now the time is here to either commit to it with no real ability to pivot, or move off it.

    It's entirely reasonable to want to pivot before completely committing long term to something you have no proof can work, and a fair amount of proof it can't. Even if you think the only reason we've not seen the proof is injury, that alone is enough: how many seasons are we supposed to waste waiting. Five apparently isn't enough. Seven? 10? We gotta wait 12 years before we decide it's just not working? What's your limit. Are we still going to be trying to get 60 games of Zion and BI healthy in 2030, and saying ''well, we can't move on, the ONLY QUESTION we need to be asking is health?'' even when in the 400 games they'll have played together by that point they've produced a net +0 rating the entire time?

    It's absurd at the 5 year marker to act like all we have to do is be patient and see if we can luck out on a healthy season. Absolutely absurd. That's even without pretending people didn't hype BI up more than they should have, because they did and we both saw it.

  11. #11
    Willie did not even make the list. Not a wasted click. Nobody buying the injury B.S. anymore. Enjoy Galveston!


  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    Locking yourself into what deal exactly? Do you still think Ingram is getting 50 mil a year?
    Some team like Detroit would offer him it or another bottom feeder. Detroit isn't going to get a better player than Ingram to sign there.

  13. #13
    There isn't a single team in this league that would win a series
    Sure, but they might not even win a game. The Heat roster can win a game against the Celtics.

    Oh and I don't want to go back in time, but if they handled the first game against the Lakers and got the 6th seed they wouldn't have needed to be stuck in the play in and Zion is still standing maybe
    Last edited by Mount_Zion; 04-28-2024 at 07:52 PM.

  14. #14
    The pels lineup of

    Zion
    Ingram
    CJ
    Herb
    Jonas

    115 off rating

    116 def rating

  15. #15
    Basketball Guru
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mount_Zion View Post
    Sure, but they might not even win a game. The Heat roster can win a game against the Celtics.

    Oh and I don't want to go back in time, but if they handled the first game against the Lakers and got the 6th seed they wouldn't have needed to be stuck in the play in and Zion is still standing maybe
    ill go back in time...if we dont loose to houston twice,,memphis twice and the spurs twice then we wouldnt have been in the play in and zion may have played in his first playoff series ...

  16. #16
    Basketball Guru
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    The announcer in the suns game said,when the twolves were trying to get gobert from the jazz..the owner made the coach promise him that he would not take gobert off the court when teams go small against them....and so far the coach stuck with his promise.......

    The twolves owner said that the jazz were taking gobert off the court when teams went small against the jazz and he didn't want to make that mistake since the twolves were trying to get him.....

    Maybe Benson should have had that talk with Willie about Jonas......

  17. #17
    The more I am looking at this roster and the more I overthink, the more I realized we aren't even close to becoming a championship team like the Nuggets/Celtics/Wolves.

    *sigh*

    This team is desperately missing a mega super star at the SG position such as Booker or Edwards.

    Love Herb, but he has no offense to be putting up 25 PPG consistently.
    Last edited by WhyHornetsWhy; 04-29-2024 at 12:05 AM.

  18. #18
    There is no doubt that CJ McCullum has a great season shooting the ball. That said he was 22% from deep in this years playoffs and was 33 % from deep last time we were in the playoffs. Neither year did he average 40% or above from the field.
    This year he is averaging 4.3 turnovers a game while being a
    defensive liability.
    His leadership has been invaluable and he was a straight sniper this year on catch and shoots. He will be 33 next year and we have drafted guards in the 1st two years in a row to replace him. He's the most overpaid player we have and it only makes sense to move him to in order to keep the team together from a fiscal perspective.

    Ingram has shot 40% from deep both times we were in the playoffs and over 40% from the field as well. All that he needs to do is listen to coaches and take more threes and less difficult twos.

    Saying we should let Ingram go is nuts

  19. #19
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mount_Zion View Post
    Some team like Detroit would offer him it or another bottom feeder. Detroit isn't going to get a better player than Ingram to sign there.
    I doubt anyone is giving Ingram a max deal

  20. #20
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fullcourtpress View Post
    There is no doubt that CJ McCullum has a great season shooting the ball. That said he was 22% from deep in this years playoffs and was 33 % from deep last time we were in the playoffs. Neither year did he average 40% or above from the field.
    This year he is averaging 4.3 turnovers a game while being a
    defensive liability.
    His leadership has been invaluable and he was a straight sniper this year on catch and shoots. He will be 33 next year and we have drafted guards in the 1st two years in a row to replace him. He's the most overpaid player we have and it only makes sense to move him to in order to keep the team together from a fiscal perspective.

    Ingram has shot 40% from deep both times we were in the playoffs and over 40% from the field as well. All that he needs to do is listen to coaches and take more threes and less difficult twos.

    Saying we should let Ingram go is nuts
    BI has been abysmal. There is no defending his play in the offseason. Saying he is shooting 40% from 3 is a bit disingenuous. He has taken a whopping 5 threes in the postseason. He seems like he just refuses to take 3s despite constant requests to do so. He turns down open 3s to take contested 2s on a regular basis. I don't think anyone is saying to let go of BI, but to consider trading him instead of overpaying him. It really seems he and Zion do not work well together. BI is very content on playing a lot of ISO.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy View Post
    The more I am looking at this roster and the more I overthink, the more I realized we aren't even close to becoming a championship team like the Nuggets/Celtics/Wolves.

    *sigh*

    This team is desperately missing a mega super star at the SG position such as Booker or Edwards.

    Love Herb, but he has no offense to be putting up 25 PPG consistently.
    They might be able to trade for Donovan Mitchell

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mount_Zion View Post
    They might be able to trade for Donovan Mitchell
    Why stop there? Trade Ingram for DE'AARON FOX works on the trade machine.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    Why stop there? Trade Ingram for DE'AARON FOX works on the trade machine.
    Just imagine a timeline in which we draft Garland instead of trading the 4th pick away. Just imagine.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    BI has been abysmal. There is no defending his play in the offseason. Saying he is shooting 40% from 3 is a bit disingenuous. He has taken a whopping 5 threes in the postseason. He seems like he just refuses to take 3s despite constant requests to do so. He turns down open 3s to take contested 2s on a regular basis. I don't think anyone is saying to let go of BI, but to consider trading him instead of overpaying him. It really seems he and Zion do not work well together. BI is very content on playing a lot of ISO.
    This.

    Arguing that BI has been a 40% postseason shooter from 3 is like saying Zion is a career 34.1% 3pt shooter so he's nearly league average. Complete obfuscation of the reality by use of a number that applies to a sample size that nobody takes seriously.

    Gotta trade BI. Not because he's garbage, because he isn't (overall: he's playing like it right now). Not because he can't be a good player on a decent team, as maybe the 3rd option or potentially 2nd if everything else breaks right. But because the fit is dodgy with our superstar and the price to retain him is unacceptable. He wants Number One Megastar money to be maybe the third option in a year or two if Trey continues improving, and his fit makes even filling that secondary or tertiary role difficult.

    Move on from BI. Good luck to him elsewhere.

  25. #25
    20+ years of pain ragincaucasian's Avatar
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    Do not tie up any more money with Ingram. This experiment is over. It does not work.

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