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Thread: February 25th - New Orleans Pelicans vs Chicago Bulls - 34-23

  1. #26
    RIP BDJ AUSSIE_PELICAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donato View Post
    Exactly. The team will be far worse without him. If you need to free up money, CJ is multiple times more replaceable as a salary dump.
    If they had CJ in both those games, they win those games. CJ is more valuable to this team at the moment than BI. He gives leadership, shooting and finds ways to score when the team is on a drought.

  2. #27
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    chicago put carusso on zion and said do what you do....Chicago was also small ...

    maybe play jonas and zeller together....jonas and nance together....at certain parts of the game, use two bigs and have the advantage and force them to adjust...

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    If they had CJ in both those games, they win those games. CJ is more valuable to this team at the moment than BI. He gives leadership, shooting and finds ways to score when the team is on a drought.
    All I can say is I completely disagree. And for every time he shoots us out a drought, I can recall him chucking the game away.

  4. #29
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    If that's what you believe good for you.
    Can you name one player in team history that we have signed in free agency that is even close to as good as BI?

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by donato View Post
    All I can say is I completely disagree. And for every time he shoots us out a drought, I can recall him chucking the game away.
    But Bi does right?

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    Can you name one player in team history that we have signed in free agency that is even close to as good as BI?
    There won't be a player, but that doesn't mean you accept the sunk cost of taking on his contract if it is in fact max cost.
    Griff will sign him and hopefully it isn't the max OR they can work out a sign in trade with his desired team to get some players back.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    There won't be a player, but that doesn't mean you accept the sunk cost of taking on his contract if it is in fact max cost.
    Griff will sign him and hopefully it isn't the max OR they can work out a sign in trade with his desired team to get some players back.
    And how do you know his desired team isn't the Pels? BI seems to be very happy here.

  8. #33
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    There won't be a player, but that doesn't mean you accept the sunk cost of taking on his contract if it is in fact max cost.
    Griff will sign him and hopefully it isn't the max OR they can work out a sign in trade with his desired team to get some players back.
    So you want the Pels to lose BI without getting a player who is better or equal to BI... so you want the team to get worse. So now you understand why I said this was a bad idea.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertM320 View Post
    And how do you know his desired team isn't the Pels? BI seems to be very happy here.
    It will be whoever is stupid enough to pay him 50M+ per year over the next 4-5 years.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    So you want the Pels to lose BI without getting a player who is better or equal to BI... so you want the team to get worse. So now you understand why I said this was a bad idea.
    Yeah I think the Pels can get 1-2 players for the same value in $$ as what BI will be paid and the team will be just as well off with more cap felxitbilty.
    You won't get a player with his high profile that throws up empty stats, but hoping it will be a C and a PG who will make the team better overall that will fit better around Zion, Herb, Trey and Hawkins.

    It's sunk cost, plain and simple.

    You believe what you believe.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    Yeah I think the Pels can get 1-2 players for the same value in $$ as what BI will be paid and the team will be just as well off with more cap felxitbilty.
    You won't get a player with his high profile that throws up empty stats, but hoping it will be a C and a PG who will make the team better overall that will fit better around Zion, Herb, Trey and Hawkins.

    It's sunk cost, plain and simple.

    You believe what you believe.
    The Pelicans have enough depth, this team does not need to add more players at the expense of losing one of its best players. Trading a really good player for two lesser players makes this team worse.

    Also, I don't think you understand with "sunk cost" means. It refers to the cost of an investment that has already been made, so when you talk about BI's future contract as a sunk cost, that's just not what that word means.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    The Pelicans have enough depth, this team does not need to add more players at the expense of losing one of its best players. Trading a really good player for two lesser players makes this team worse.

    Also, I don't think you understand with "sunk cost" means. It refers to the cost of an investment that has already been made, so when you talk about BI's future contract as a sunk cost, that's just not what that word means.
    Ofcourse that's sunk cost and I didn't need to google it.
    The Pels investing more money in a player that they have already invested in because they are are worried that they won't get fair return is not accepting sunk cost.

    Yes they have depth right now because they have cheap contracts and rookies contracts, but what happens when the need to pay Dyson, Trey and Murphy?

    That 50M invested in BI who hasn't shown he can change his shot profile to get with the modern NBA and fit within the team is a worse move then trading him for players who fit the system.

    Just my opinion, you don't have to agree, but happy to discuss this in 6-8 months.
    Last edited by AUSSIE_PELICAN; 02-26-2024 at 11:25 PM.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    Yeah I think the Pels can get 1-2 players for the same value in $$ as what BI will be paid and the team will be just as well off with more cap felxitbilty.
    You won't get a player with his high profile that throws up empty stats, but hoping it will be a C and a PG who will make the team better overall that will fit better around Zion, Herb, Trey and Hawkins.

    It's sunk cost, plain and simple.

    You believe what you believe.
    How about D. Murray and Capela for BI in the offseason?

  14. #39
    I honestly would have been ok with a trade deadline deal swapping BI for Murray & Okongwu. People say Brandon is better than Murray and he is (though their stats this year are almost identical), but Murray is much cheaper and is locked up for another couple of years. He is a point guard who can run an offense and defend and, perhaps most importantly, is used to deferring to a lead offensive star. He fits better than Brandon. Plus you get a good young big to develop on another favorable deal.

    I understand why the Pels wanted to push this kind of decision to the offseason, especially when the team was 10 games over .500 at the deadline. But the decision is coming and giving Ingram the bag and having him be the lead dog who takes the most shots and handles the ball at clutch time is not going to take this team anywhere past the first round of the playoffs. Getting him off the team and the payroll and establishing Zion as the lead is the Pels best chance by far to make push for a title. It's no sure thing but Z becoming Giannis is our best hope.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhorse985 View Post
    How about D. Murray and Capela for BI in the offseason?
    If they throw in OO instead of Capela I'd throw in a first.
    However I'd probably take that if they re-sign JV for the MLE.

    I'd also look to shipping Nance for more guard depth.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    I honestly would have been ok with a trade deadline deal swapping BI for Murray & Okongwu. People say Brandon is better than Murray and he is (though their stats this year are almost identical), but Murray is much cheaper and is locked up for another couple of years. He is a point guard who can run an offense and defend and, perhaps most importantly, is used to deferring to a lead offensive star. He fits better than Brandon. Plus you get a good young big to develop on another favorable deal.

    I understand why the Pels wanted to push this kind of decision to the offseason, especially when the team was 10 games over .500 at the deadline. But the decision is coming and giving Ingram the bag and having him be the lead dog who takes the most shots and handles the ball at clutch time is not going to take this team anywhere past the first round of the playoffs. Getting him off the team and the payroll and establishing Zion as the lead is the Pels best chance by far to make push for a title. It's no sure thing but Z becoming Giannis is our best hope.
    Thank you!
    I'm glad you get it.

  17. #42
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    So you want the Pels to lose BI without getting a player who is better or equal to BI... so you want the team to get worse. So now you understand why I said this was a bad idea.
    But there is also the risk of signing BI to a large contract and getting worse as a result due to the lack of room to maintain other key players. It is a difficult situation.

  18. #43
    The basic question to ask yourself about the Pels future is can you challenge for a title when your two main stars don't shoot threes and don't defend at a high level? To me that's a big ask...

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    Can you name one player in team history that we have signed in free agency that is even close to as good as BI?
    yeah....Julius Randle

  20. #45
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by clark griswald View Post
    yeah....Julius Randle
    Quit being silly

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    I honestly would have been ok with a trade deadline deal swapping BI for Murray & Okongwu. People say Brandon is better than Murray and he is (though their stats this year are almost identical), but Murray is much cheaper and is locked up for another couple of years. He is a point guard who can run an offense and defend and, perhaps most importantly, is used to deferring to a lead offensive star. He fits better than Brandon. Plus you get a good young big to develop on another favorable deal.

    I understand why the Pels wanted to push this kind of decision to the offseason, especially when the team was 10 games over .500 at the deadline. But the decision is coming and giving Ingram the bag and having him be the lead dog who takes the most shots and handles the ball at clutch time is not going to take this team anywhere past the first round of the playoffs. Getting him off the team and the payroll and establishing Zion as the lead is the Pels best chance by far to make push for a title. It's no sure thing but Z becoming Giannis is our best hope.
    Everyone unanimously agrees Zion's best role in the offense is initiating things from the point... so explain why it's better to get a point guard to "initiate the offense"? How does taking the ball out of Zion's hands make things better? CJ is a good fit as PG next to Zion because he's a vet leader with excellent three-point shooting to space the floor, can get his own shot but doesn't need to be the guy who initiates the offense.

  22. #47
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    The basic question to ask yourself about the Pels future is can you challenge for a title when your two main stars don't shoot threes and don't defend at a high level? To me that's a big ask...
    BI is way better on defense then he gets credit for. He is a plus defender. I think most people including those affiliated with the pelicans agree that we'd like to see him take more three-pointers... and it's something that can happen it's not an impossibility, it's not even unlikely. If you recall he just had a game this month with career-high 8 3pt makes.
    Last edited by hornetsrebirth; 02-27-2024 at 01:44 PM.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    Everyone unanimously agrees Zion's best role in the offense is initiating things from the point... so explain why it's better to get a point guard to "initiate the offense"? How does taking the ball out of Zion's hands make things better? CJ is a good fit as PG next to Zion because he's a vet leader with excellent three-point shooting to space the floor, can get his own shot but doesn't need to be the guy who initiates the offense.
    Because you still need a guy who will give teams in a 7 game series a different look. Yes CJ, Alvarado and Dyson or even Herb can in small doses, but a more pure guard would help. Problem there aren't many available or still in the NBA.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    BI is way better on defense then he gets credit for. He is a plus defender. I think most people including those affiliated with the pelicans agree that we'd like to see him take more three-pointers... and it's something that can happen it's not an impossibility, it's not even unlikely. If you recall he just had a game this month with career-high 8 3pt makes.
    Go look at the games he scores in high numbers in 3pt attempts. It's teams that are below 500. Teams like that give BI that shot or he just has more confidence against those teams. When the defence tightens he goes back to his old ways.

  25. #50
    I don’t think it’s down to any one player. It’s the product as a whole. I don’t think the coach is ready, I don’t think the team is ready and I don’t think the GM is ready. We do not have a winning culture whatsoever, we have a young head coach and the team doesn’t have an identity despite checking most of the boxes talent wise. If we cannot win with this current roster, then I dread to think what will happen when it blows up. Somebody needs to step up. Big time.

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