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Worth noting tht Kushner also added that there have been more internal changes than have been released publicly.
So there have been vast changes to the training staff, some changes to the coaching staff, and some other stuff we don't know about yet. And there's yet to be another, to quote Kushner, 'seismic' change coming.
Glad to hear it.
Basketball.
More rumbles. At a big party this weekend and ran into old colleague who represents Benson organization on some matters and is big Pels fan. He said the front office had serious questions about team’s mentality at end of season. Said he wouldn’t be surprised at all if they were ready shake things up going into year five. Nothing specific but seems somewhere some line was crossed and the organization is taking a hard look at whether this group has the mindset to challenge for a chip…Also said release of Witherspoon was part of letting Willy shape his own staff….
I'm excited.
We're a top 6 team without Zion. Like, if we just lost him and didn't add anyone. People forget how young this team is. BI hasn't reached his prime yet. We were a play in seed missing so many people for so many games. You put another season of experience on Jose, Herb, Trey, and Dyson and tell me everyone stays healthy and we are top 6 easy.
CJ, Nance, and JV aren't at the age where they lose something during the off-season, either. CJ should be the hero of this board. It's crazy he gets the hate he gets. He was playing with a hurt thumb and was forced to play out of his element because our stars were too busy 'not feeling themselves' to play. He'll be back to CJ next season.
So if Zion remains and you tell me he stays healthy, man. We're easily top 3 with a punchers chance at the title. So if Friday hits and he's still here.....I'm a little apprehensive for his health but mostly excited.
If he gets moved for Scoot....I think this season we're still a top 6 team. Which will be fun to watch. And as the seasons go by and BI hits his prime while Scoot and the boys are getting more experienced, we go to top 5....top 4....and in three to four seasons we're back to contenders. That's pretty exciting.
Whatever the long time fans want to say about the failures of this organization, they have done a pretty stellar job for a small market team to stay viable.
Haha. If you want a fun read, check out some threads from the first half of the 2016 season before the Cousins trade. We are SOOOO high above that low no matter how this week ends.
BI, Zion, and CJ had a net rating of +3 when on the court together. BI and Zion had a +13.4, BI and CJ had a +13.2, Zion and CJ was just +5.4.
BI and Zion worked. BI and CJ worked. It was CJ and Zion and all three together that didn't work.
I think this is the basic premise that any and all disagreement revolves around.Originally Posted by msusousaphone
You think we're top 6 without Zion, with no new additions.
I think we're not even reliably top 9 without Zion.
Without Zion last season, we were a bottom 10 offense. Very difficult to get anything done that way.
It's true, but Zion wasn't the only reason. CJ's thumb injury happened in January, Dyson's ankle happened in January, and Jose went down in February. With all those guys (including Z) being out, they really only had one reliable ballhandler left. Even still, BI's playmaking seemed to go up a level the last 6 weeks of the season - consistently making the correct reads out of the pick and roll and refused to be sped up past his pace
You can make the argument that if CJ and Jose and Dyson are all healthy next year, their added ballhandling gives the offense more options
imo Zion's mentality is closer to Ben Simmons' than LeBron's, and I'd prefer to get out of the Zion business while he still has a high value across the league
During Zion's "mvp" run, with no BI, which began on 11/28/22 until Zion went out (15 game period).
Ortg - 11th (114.5)
Drtg - 7th (111.1)
During that 'healthy' BI run to close the season, which I'd peg as the last 15 games of the year to be consistent.
Ortg - 13th (117.7)
Drtg - 2nd (109.3)
They went 8-7 during Zion's run and couldn't win on the road. That run also included 9 home games and 6 on the road.
To close the year they went 10-5, with 8 home and 7 on the road, in higher intensity games we all witnessed. Plus no Jose and a more banged up CJ, but healthier BI. Looks like their offensive rating went up (though lower in rankings).
So, according to the rankings, they're a middling offense with either/or, assuming they're both healthy and not coming off 2 months injury.
Of course no one consistently wins with only one dependable option on offense. The question is which combo is better? Zion/Ingram, Zion/Scoot, or Ingram/Scoot? Zion/Ingram can?t stay on the floor together and hasn’t won in 4 years, so that combo is 3rd for me.
Last edited by Darkhorse985; 06-19-2023 at 11:19 AM.
Also consider after the CJ trade last season, when CJ played his best basketball in a Pels uniform to the end of that regular season. They were 7th in offense and 9th in defense (not including the last 3 games w/o Ingram).
Thats BI, CJ, JV, 3 rookies + Naji. Literally a top 10 offense and defense. Some heavy lifting at the top.
So I'm not going to give up on Zion/Ingram/CJ yet when they simply haven't played much. In exchange for a rookie who looks promising, but isn't Wemby. Zion has still played more games than Embiid in his first 4 years.
The coming contract situation shouldn't be a reset button this early either.
Pelicans forward Trey Murphy (@treymurphy) will be a part of the ESPN Draft coverage on Thursday night.
— Andrew Lopez (@_Andrew_Lopez) June 19, 2023
Catch him on the live Hoop Collective show on the App, Twitter, Facebook and YouTube. https://t.co/iktJ3CqVnX
We have seen what the pinnacle of this team can be when healthy. They absolutely eviscerated Brooklyn in Game 1 of last season. Like, completely took their souls. Doing that to a healthy Kyrie/Durant/Simmons in their own arena is pretty amazing. But health and mental toughness to play through injury is a thing, so it is fool's gold to think that we would ever see this more more than a quarter of a season with these players. Zion saying he won't play until he feels like Zion again just makes me think he is too far gone to ever carry a team. It's a shame.
Yet others are saying the deal for 3 will happen once they are on the clock. Makes things a bit more dicey.
Blazers acquire:
pick #27
Zion Williams
Hornets acquire:
Anfrenee Simmons
pick #3
Pick #14
Pelicans acquire:
pick #2
pick # 23
everybody gets what they want right
The likelihood of any deal happening is on the clock, or at least very shortly beforehand, if it happens at all.
That doesn't change the fact that it would probably be best for us if that deal happened sooner.
I just want to remind everyone that Ben Simmons had a back surgery with an average full recovery time of 2 years, so at least some of the criticism he got last year was unwarranted because - unsurprisingly - he was yet to fully recover.
However, because of that, I will just note that saying it was a fully healthy Simmons is overstating it somewhat. Guy could barely move that game.
That seems like a good trade for all 3 teams.
I'm wondering if Charlotte will do Zion for Hayward + pick #2... and if Portland will take CJ back along with a future pick for Anfernee Simons. That would be even better for the Pels. Hayward only has 1 year left, so could provide a year of veteran mentorship and do not re-sign him after. Then take Lively with pick #14.
Scoot.............. Daniels, GTA
Simons........... TM3, Kira?
BI.................. Hayward, Naji
Herb.............. Nance, Liddell
Jonas............. Lively, Hayes
If you're trading Zion, you're entering a period of soft-reset. In that case, sending multiple first rounders out to everyone who asks for one is probably not a great idea.
To be fair, my man did say Zion Williams.
That's fair, my bad.
and i meant zion williams, the dude who sells alligator sausage outside the smoothie king arena. I think he would excel in Portland. Meanwhile we build a dynasty
If Charlotte takes Miller and Portland offers Simmons and the number three, which would be Scoot, does Zion pack his bags?
I don't know how things REALLY are with Zion and the Pels. I just get the rumors on here. My answer depends on how things really are (and in this scenario, I am the Pels FO, so I would know).
If things are mostly OK with the Alligator Salesmen then **** no I don't trade him. Like if he isn't buddy buddy with the team but it's still good....he just prefers to hang with other people or keep to himself. That's fine.
If things are cold, though. Like if I've done all the things it sounds like the Pels have tried and things still aren't positive....then absolutely he's gone. The NBA is littered with the bodies for franchises that star players forced their way away from. I think we take for granted how well this franchise has recovered from the CP3 debacle and then the AD escapade. That would take most places so many years to recover from and here we've been the past few seasons....with a lot of hope and promise. Yeah, we had a lot of lottery ball luck but they've built back after two cataclysmic events. If things are frosty and we continue to hold on to Zion too long, BI will be the next Jrue and we'll be needing another generational talent and extremely good lottery odds to save us from the basement, again.
I would dispute the point that we have 'recovered' since CP3 left. We've been a bottom dwelling organisation since, and after the last #1 pick left, getting 2 playoff wins in 4 years and then losing another #1 pick superstar level talent is proof of that continued bottom dwelling.
If losing Zion nets you a haul that you cannot say no to, then you move him, but you do so with the knowledge that the media is going to hammer the franchise, the city, the fanbase, etc, for it. If he nets you less than that, you are almost compelled to give him another chance because why would you bring all that down on your head - as well as lose the MVP potential - for a minimal return?
https://twitter.com/blazers_palace/s...RY1NhkbE5NzbOg
I have no clue how to embed tweets. Someone help me out please
Last edited by DaFranchise80; 06-20-2023 at 10:18 AM.
Who cares if the media hammers us? That's what they've usually done anyway. At this point I couldn't care less about their criticism.
watching this game and seeing what the big 3 can do healthy is just awesome...trey was not at the level, he is at now......herb was not at the level, he is at now....
this was nice going down memory lane......
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