All Star Zion

[ragincaucasian]

Could be that it was worse or just as likely they wanted to take it a little slower to give him extra time to heal. I think they are just trying to give it a such time as they can before we are completely out of the play in. I really expect him to rampnup and play soon

Tell me if you've heard this one before: Zion gets hurt. The Pels are giving him extra time to heal from an injury, and if they make the play in he will play. Sounds hauntingly familiar.........

[As I See It]

I'd be surprised, if he came back in the regular season. Lord knows I don't want him to come back early and get re-hurt, thus jeopardizing the start of next season. I'd rather wrap him in bubble wrap and say, "See you next season, I hope. and and stay away from Kit Kat Bars".

[Darkhorse985]

Glad Zion is getting plenty of rest with the Pels as he needs to be ready to hit his prime on his 3rd contract with the Knicks or Lakers.

[P_B_&_G]

It is possible he pushed to come back for the all star game and rushed things a little. Complete speculation on my part though

[As I See It]

Glad Zion is getting plenty of rest with the Pels as he needs to be ready to hit his prime on his 3rd contract with the Knicks or Lakers.

Meanwhile, the Pelicans will operate over the next five years with only 70% of the Cap as other teams. We won't be able to trade any draft picks because we will need them just to put a team on the court (cheap labor). So, here we are:

-- operating on 70% of the Cap
-- a Small Market Team

If #1 doesn't return to the team this year. he will have played 114 of a possible 308 games (there were two 72 game seasons because of COVID) or only 37.01% of his team's games. I know his supporters can't stand when someone tries to compare him with Greg Oden who played a total of 108 games in three years (average more games per year than # 1). But, I submit that we are in a much worse situation than Portland was because Oden never got a second MAX contract to hamstring the Blazers from competing on an even playing field going forward.

It's going to be like an NAIA team playing Alabama in football every week. We better hope and pray that BI doesn't lose patience with this team. If he does, who's going to be the leader? 3M3 or Jose' (CJ ain't getting any younger).

[P_B_&_G]

Official word is he is cleared for on court activity and will be reevaluated in 2 weeks. So he won't be back by the 1st as I hoped. 2 weeks is the 5th and there is a game that day and only 2 more after that before the play in.

So, he could be back for the last 2 games barring a setback. I don't expect him back until the 7th at best.

Rinse and repeat.

As for him being injured and comparing him to Oden, Oden's knees were shot. He had microfracture on his right knee before he ever played an NBA game and then had it again on the other knee not long after. There were structural issues with his knees before he ever saw an NBA court. Zion doesn't appear to have structural problems or even a single persistent issue like a bad knee. Could be that he's just a glass man and could have multiple seemingly unrelated injuries over his career but we cant see the future. Hamstring injuries are common though. I'm not too concerned about his long term health based on a hamstring injury. He's only 22 and we have a decent sample of what he brings when healthy. He's young and absolutely worth waiting on. We know this team is a top 3 team when he's healthy and that wasn't even with BI playing.

All the team needs to do is keep turning over the bottom of the roster and try to improve the role players. If an opportunity arises to grab another CJ level player without giving up too much they should do it depending on position. The last piece of the puzzle is Zion's health. We have time. He's still really young and is an absolute game changer.

[AtlPel]

Ant Man is out Indefinitely for the Season for Minnesota, Paul George is out for 3-4 weeks, and the clippers are in 5th and up 2 games on us. We play the clippers twice,GS once and home to Minnesota. The rest of the teams play one another. I truly believe we will move to 5th or 6th. We have won 2 straight games with Charlotte, PG-less clippers and a Dame-less blazers team up next

[Mrakar]

Ant Man is out Indefinitely for the Season for Minnesota, Paul George is out for 3-4 weeks, and the clippers are in 5th and up 2 games on us. We play the clippers twice,GS once and home to Minnesota. The rest of the teams play one another. I truly believe we will move to 5th or 6th. We have won 2 straight games with Charlotte, PG-less clippers and a Dame-less blazers team up next

What two games against worst teams in the league can do for Pels fans... 5th or 6th? Have you watched Pels play this season? Hell, have you watched any NBA games this season?

[As I See It]

Official word is he is cleared for on court activity and will be reevaluated in 2 weeks. So he won't be back by the 1st as I hoped. 2 weeks is the 5th and there is a game that day and only 2 more after that before the play in.

So, he could be back for the last 2 games barring a setback. I don't expect him back until the 7th at best.

Rinse and repeat.

As for him being injured and comparing him to Oden, Oden's knees were shot. He had microfracture on his right knee before he ever played an NBA game and then had it again on the other knee not long after. There were structural issues with his knees before he ever saw an NBA court. Zion doesn't appear to have structural problems or even a single persistent issue like a bad knee. Could be that he's just a glass man and could have multiple seemingly unrelated injuries over his career but we cant see the future. Hamstring injuries are common though. I'm not too concerned about his long term health based on a hamstring injury. He's only 22 and we have a decent sample of what he brings when healthy. He's young and absolutely worth waiting on. We know this team is a top 3 team when he's healthy and that wasn't even with BI playing.

All the team needs to do is keep turning over the bottom of the roster and try to improve the role players. If an opportunity arises to grab another CJ level player without giving up too much they should do it depending on position. The last piece of the puzzle is Zion's health. We have time. He's still really young and is an absolute game changer.

I respect your opinion, but tell me, when was the last time he played a full season without injury?

>>Jeopardy Music<<

How about seven years ago as a 16/17 year-old, Junior in Spartanburg Day High School?

````

So how many years do we have to wait until he starts earning his Max Contract? Second rounder, Herb Jones, has played 23 more games (with 125 starts) in less than two years than # 1 has in four years. Undrafted Free Agent, Naji Marshall has made more appearances in just three years as a Pelican (he played some of his first year in Erie).

And this guy is worth a Max Contract?

[P_B_&_G]

So how many years do we have to wait until he starts earning his Max Contract?

And this guy is worth a Max Contract?

Well, I did say he could be made of glass.

You wait at least until his next contract and make a decision around that time. Maybe with a year left to move him for as much value as possible. I wouldn't be offering another max unless he proves he can stay healthy. The other option is keep him around and offer him a prove it deal on the next contract.

It sucks how his career has gone so far but he has talent that you can't find anywhere else. But the most important ability is availability as they say.

I'm willing to wait. Hopefully he can get healthy.

Edited to add: You also have to consider a potential trade for a high level star that might want a change of scenery. With that in mind, who would you move him for? Would you have done a KD for Zion trade? I think Brooklyn would have jumped all over that.

[As I See It]

Well, I did say he could be made of glass.

You wait at least until his next contract and make a decision around that time. Maybe with a year left to move him for as much value as possible. I wouldn't be offering another max unless he proves he can stay healthy. The other option is keep him around and offer him a prove it deal on the next contract.

It sucks how his career has gone so far but he has talent that you can't find anywhere else. But the most important ability is availability as they say.

I'm willing to wait. Hopefully he can get healthy.

Edited to add: You also have to consider a potential trade for a high level star that might want a change of scenery. With that in mind, who would you move him for? Would you have done a KD for Zion trade? I think Brooklyn would have jumped all over that.

I would have waited too, but that ship has already sailed. He signed an extension last summer. Unless we cut him, he's ours until 2028 @ 38.5MM a year. We went all in with the full knowledge that he is unplayable more than not. So, here we are.

If Brooklyn would have traded for KD straight up for # 1, they would have been nuts. So, yes, I would have made that trade.

[msusousaphone]

Oh man.

Anyone else see the punchline in making KD with his injury history the guy being added in that scenario?

I love it.

[P_B_&_G]

Oh man.

Anyone else see the punchline in making KD with his injury history the guy being added in that scenario?

I love it.

And yet, make that trade and we are in the exact same scenario right now. With a much older player on the tail end of his career. I'm riding out #1's max deal with the hopes he gets healthy and can be on the floor. We only really need him to be around for a playoff run anyway. He can sit the entire year and start playing in early March every year for all I care if that allows him to be available for the stretch run and playoffs. Besides, it isn't my money going to Zion. I'm just here for the entertainment. And I like long shots and redemption stories...

[ml wave]

Meanwhile, the Pelicans will operate over the next five years with only 70% of the Cap as other teams. We won't be able to trade any draft picks because we will need them just to put a team on the court (cheap labor). So, here we are:

-- operating on 70% of the Cap
-- a Small Market Team

If #1 doesn't return to the team this year. he will have played 114 of a possible 308 games (there were two 72 game seasons because of COVID) or only 37.01% of his team's games. I know his supporters can't stand when someone tries to compare him with Greg Oden who played a total of 108 games in three years (average more games per year than # 1). But, I submit that we are in a much worse situation than Portland was because Oden never got a second MAX contract to hamstring the Blazers from competing on an even playing field going forward.

It's going to be like an NAIA team playing Alabama in football every week. We better hope and pray that BI doesn't lose patience with this team. If he does, who's going to be the leader? 3M3 or Jose' (CJ ain't getting any younger).

What makes you compare Zion to Greg Oden as opposed to Joel Embiid (94 games in first 4 years)? Embiid got the second contract. Maybe go on the 6ers board and just refer derisively to "#21"?

[As I See It]

What makes you compare Zion to Greg Oden as opposed to Joel Embiid (94 games in first 4 years)? Embiid got the second contract. Maybe go on the 6ers board and just refer derisively to "#21"?

Six Years of Data on his availability!!!

[P_B_&_G]

Six Years of Data on his availability!!!

Embiid had injuries going back to college. But since he is still playing and playing well you rule him out of the comparison because he doesn't fit your narrative. You have to look at both him and Oden in terms of length of injury history. But you also have to look at the type of injuries. Zion appears more comparable to Embiid in terms of multiple unrelated injuries. Oden had knee issues all along. Even Embiid has had meniscus problems. So far Zion hasn't had that. The foot fracture was the most concerning so far. Soft tissue injuries like hamstring problems suck but aren't usually a career threatening issue. He could potentially lose some athleticism from it depending on the severity but it shouldn't prevent him from playing long term.

Not to mention his injury at Duke was because of his shoe exploding and not because his body failed. Literally a freak accident.

But I agree that he isn't helping if he isn't playing and we may need to cut losses at some point. I'm not there yet based on his talent, age, and his specific injury history. You keep riding his contract and hoping for health from him. He's only 22 after all...

[As I See It]

Embiid had injuries going back to college. But since he is still playing and playing well you rule him out of the comparison because he doesn't fit your narrative. You have to look at both him and Oden in terms of length of injury history. But you also have to look at the type of injuries. Zion appears more comparable to Embiid in terms of multiple unrelated injuries. Oden had knee issues all along. Even Embiid has had meniscus problems. So far Zion hasn't had that. The foot fracture was the most concerning so far. Soft tissue injuries like hamstring problems suck but aren't usually a career threatening issue. He could potentially lose some athleticism from it depending on the severity but it shouldn't prevent him from playing long term.

Not to mention his injury at Duke was because of his shoe exploding and not because his body failed. Literally a freak accident.

But I agree that he isn't helping if he isn't playing and we may need to cut losses at some point. I'm not there yet based on his talent, age, and his specific injury history. You keep riding his contract and hoping for health from him. He's only 22 after all...

I really don't mind debating you, but I do think it would be wise if you knew the facts....

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2019/10...oe-high-school

....and please note, this was written in January of 2020. After this, he missed a full year with the Jones Fracture in his right foot.

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/baske...le66336505.ece

If you don't think there is anything to worry about, I admire your optimism. But, for me, until I see a change, I have to go with the odds.

NOTE: I do hope you are right, though, and I am wrong.

[P_B_&_G]

I really don't mind debating you, but I do think it would be wise if you knew the facts....

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2019/10...oe-high-school

....and please note, this was written in January of 2020. After this, he missed a full year with the Jones Fracture in his right foot.

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/baske...le66336505.ece

If you don't think there is anything to worry about, I admire your optimism. But, for me, until I see a change, I have to go with the odds.

NOTE: I do hope you are right, though, and I am wrong.

There's definitely something to worry about. He's got a long injury history. But even with a past meniscus problem he's still closer to Embiid than Oden. Which still isn't great. Why do you think the odds are more likley he ends up as an Oden versus an embiid? He appears more on the Embiid trajectory than Oden to me. But he isn't either of those guys and could end up healthier than both over the long haul. He can't be much worse than Oden though so thays probably worst case scenario.

I think you are just more risk averse than I am in this situation. I'm willing to wait and see where he ends up for 2 reasons. We already gave him the max deal and players of his caliber, when healthy, are extremely difficult to find. So, I wait and hope for health.

What if I told you the most common reasons for reinjuirng a hamstring are returning to play to quickly and/or improper rehab programs?

[As I See It]

There's definitely something to worry about. He's got a long injury history. But even with a past meniscus problem he's still closer to Embiid than Oden. Which still isn't great. Why do you think the odds are more likley he ends up as an Oden versus an embiid? He appears more on the Embiid trajectory than Oden to me. But he isn't either of those guys and could end up healthier than both over the long haul. He can't be much worse than Oden though so thays probably worst case scenario.

I think you are just more risk averse than I am in this situation. I'm willing to wait and see where he ends up for 2 reasons. We already gave him the max deal and players of his caliber, when healthy, are extremely difficult to find. So, I wait and hope for health.

What if I told you the most common reasons for reinjuirng a hamstring are returning to play to quickly and/or improper rehab programs?

My friend, my concern is simple, that MAX contract he got last summer means if he's unable to play up to it over the next five years and we do not somehow manage to download him, we are destined to be a team made up of hodgepodge of Dan Dickau's, Solomon Hill's, Tim Frazier's, and, dare I say it, Jimmer Fredette's to complement BI (if. in fact, he doesn't get tired of losing and demand to be moved). Our pocketbook just will not allow for much more than that.

Now I don't know about you, but I don't care to go back there.

BOTTOM LINE: As long as he was playing (obviously I use that word loosely) under his rookie contract, his presence (or lack thereof) was somewhat tolerable. Now that he was gifted (he certainly didn't earn it) with a second MAX contract, the clock is ticking. Even at the trade deadline this year, we were quite limited in what we could do. That MAX contract will make things considerably worse.

Now, I will gladly eat all the crow you'd care to serve me if I'm wrong, but six years of injury history stares both of us squarely in the face.

[P_B_&_G]

My friend, my concern is simple, that MAX contract he got last summer means if he's unable to play up to it over the next five years and we do not somehow manage to download him, we are destined to be a team made up of hodgepodge of Dan Dickau's, Solomon Hill's, Tim Frazier's, and, dare I say it, Jimmer Fredette's to complement BI (if. in fact, he doesn't get tired of losing and demand to be moved). Our pocketbook just will not allow for much more than that.

Now I don't know about you, but I don't care to go back there.

BOTTOM LINE: As long as he was playing (obviously I used that word loosely) under his rookie contract, his presence (or lack thereof) was somewhat tolerable. Now that he was gifted (he certainly didn't earn it) with a second MAX contract, the clock is ticking. Even at the trade deadline this year, we were quite limited in what we could do. That MAX contract will make things considerably worse.

Now, I will gladly eat all the crow you'd care to serve me, if I'm wrong, but six years of injury history stares both of us squarely in the face.

There's really only one thing to do in this situation.

Get a voodoo priestess in the SKC to break the injury curse on this team.

[Upper Decker]

Well, we're "stuck" with him now. Hahaha.