Staggered Units

[MichaelMcNamara]

We know the starters are good, when healthy. Now, its about finding staggered BI and Zion units so that we just have a killer 5 on the court all 48 minutes. From what I have seen so far, this is what I would do:

BI Unit

Jose-Dyson-BI-Herb-JV

You have enough creation here, with 4 guys who can set up the offense and a 5th (Jonas) who can get a good look out of a post up. Plenty of rebounding here with Dyson and JV. You can argue the shooting is light, but no staggered unit will be perfect. Defense should be good enough to allow a slightly above avg offense to outscore other bench units

Zion Unit

CJ-Trey-Zion-Nance and EITHER Graham or Hayes

Going against a bigger team, put in Hayes and let Nance camp at the arc. Smaller unit, and Graham gives you more spacing. Plenty of shooting either way, with CJ or Zion as the creators and Zion playing Point Zion most of the time. Defense would be suspect with Graham in, but the Hayes unit would have enough length to bother shots. Either way, this unit is mostly just trying to outgun bench units, and it would be rare to have a bench unit with more firepower than this one

Again, looking at these units and optimising with a future trade, I would love to swap out the Graham/Hayes option in the Zion unit for a power wing who could create their own a bit and rebound. I keep coming back to a Harrison Barnes type. Wouldnt hate an Alec Burks either. Could also fill in the BI unit if Dyson struggles

[clark griswald]

I see you've left out Marshall. I guess you're not a believer after the last 3 games? I'd put Trey in the Bi grouping and Marshall with Zion

[MichaelMcNamara]

Naji is a try hard that is perfect when you got a key guy or two on the injury report. I am trying to build units for the playoffs, when everyone plays hard and skill reigns supreme

Naji is a great regular season value that every playoff team needs to help when you want to be cautious with key players. But I can’t for the life of me see him in the 9 man rotation when the other team is good and going all out. He is a liability at that point.

You can appreciate a guy while also knowing his limitations. Its clear to me what Naji is and I would be trying to succeed at the highest level, not to win a random game in January.

[hornetsrebirth]

A strategy question is whether its better to stagger players so as to always have a decent group of 5 guys on the floor, or if its preferable to have your absolute best lineup on the floor for some length time and then pay for it later on, like paying off a credit card. There are too many variables involving matchups and the flow of the game to have a policy set in stone. There are times when coach uses a rotation that we all think is terrible, but he may be ok with taking bitter medicine for a couple of minutes because of what it allows for later on. If trotting out a sub-optimal lineup makes for -6, but it allows him to later use a rested group of the best guys and come back with a +12... that could be one way to go about it.

[The Dud]

Interesting stuff but every time I thought I had a reason to swap 2 guys between BI & Zion units...I'd see a reason why this would create a problem in another area.

Bottom line: After watching Zion what little I have...I think he could be a MUCH better "assist man" as Point Zion than BI or anybody else. So, I might try to team up Zion with folks that can't create their own 3-pt shot or any other shot for that matter, but might be decent enough to hold their own on C&S 3s with Zion spoon feeding them. So, I could see CJ with BI...and dare I say it...Herb...with Zion. (Also helps the Zion unit, since it needs all the help it can get defensively)

Another bottom line: (Can there EVEN BE...TWO bottom lines?)...Whenever Zion & BI are on the floor together...I DEMAND that BI uses his 3-pt shooting more often. I'm basically a "3 & 3" kinda guy. You either shoot a 3-pt shot...or a 3' shot. Numbers don't lie...and BI struggled last year whether people recognize it or not.

[donato]

CJ-Dyson-BI-Nance-Jonas

Alvarado-Trey-Herb-Zion-Graham/Hayes/Willy

[hornetsrebirth]

Another bottom line: (Can there EVEN BE...TWO bottom lines?)...Whenever Zion & BI are on the floor together...I DEMAND that BI uses his 3-pt shooting more often. I'm basically a "3 & 3" kinda guy. You either shoot a 3-pt shot...or a 3' shot. Numbers don't lie...and BI struggled last year whether people recognize it or not.

Where BI struggled last year was 3 point shooting. What makes him special is his mid range game.

[Spec3333]

BI has been working on his 3 point shot. I expect a much better 3 point percentage from him this season, especially given Zion’s gravity.

[new city champ]

Who is your closing five? Right now we'd have to say CJ-Herb-BI-Zion-Nance, Jr., no?

The most interesting early season development is that the guys are actually shooting fairly well from the arc, which I had tagged as a huge weakness. It's early and on fairly low volume, but still encouraging. I actually don't mind a high-quality, as opposed to volume, approach to 3-pointers. We are going to score in the paint and (presumably) get to the line. A good combo. If we can pair that with selective but quality 3-point shots, we should be hard to handle...

Wild Card 1: What is Dyson going to be in his rookie campaign? We are seeing all the rooks in the top 10 already getting quality minutes, albeit on weaker teams. In his limited minutes, Dyson looked like a rotation guy, especially if his offense is going to take a jump over what we saw in the G-League last year.

Wild Card 2: Like most of you I had relegated Naji Marshall to the end of the bench. But the guy we've seen in the last few games--a big, active wing defender who can knock down threes--is something we needed with the second unit. If this recent play isn't a mirage, you've got to look at making room for him in the rotation. I'm not sure where those minutes come from (Hayes?) but you could have a second unit of Jose-(Dyson/Graham)-Naji-Trey-Nance. I like the defense with that group!

Exit Question: Is there any way Kira Lewis can get on the court now other than injuries? I might give him a nice, long rehab assignment in Birmingham close to his old college stomping grounds and take it from there...

[hornetsrebirth]

BI has been working on his 3 point shot. I expect a much better 3 point percentage from him this season, especially given Zion’s gravity.

I agree with that. i dont agree with the idea that we should be trying to get BI to be a 3 point or layup kind of player though, midrange is what makes him elite.

[hornetsrebirth]

Who is your closing five? Right now we'd have to say CJ-Herb-BI-Zion-Nance, Jr., no?

Probably depends if we have the lead or need to make up points. If we need points Trey instead of Herb. And in either scenario JV over Nance, he is a better rebounder not to mention the scoring.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Team dependent IMO. Like, against the Nuggets, I probably go Trey and Jokic. Vs Mavs, I probably go Nance and Herb. Suns, I go Nance and Trey if I am behind, Herb if I am ahead. Clippers (healthy), I probably go Trey and Herb. Warriors, I probably go Trey and Nance.

One key will be Zion's progress on the glass. I was encouraged by his defensive rebounding yesterday. He needs to be a glass eater in closing units

As for Kira, that is the plan. A lot of time in Birmingham, and some NBA reps in Jan, Feb, March

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

I still think this team needs a rim protecting big.
I'm making that trade in January for Stewart and Burks.

Mike Muscala could come cheap too if they use all their assets on a Harrison Barnes.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Dont think the Pistons have any interest in trading Stewert. Also, he averages 0.4 bpg in 29 minutes. So, I dont think he is that rim protector

But Nerlens and Burks for Graham and Hayes works salary wise

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Dont think the Pistons have any interest in trading Stewert. Also, he averages 0.4 bpg in 29 minutes. So, I dont think he is that rim protector

But Nerlens and Burks for Graham and Hayes works salary wise

Still want to somehow replace Graham, Temple and Hayes with Burks, Barnes and Nerlens. Even if they attach future picks, it can't work salary wise.

I think Barnes makes a Burks type redundant, so I'm going with Barnes and Noel as to what the need it the play offs

[Mrakar]

I would really like to see more Hernangomez and less Hayes. At this point im giving up on Hayes and i think right now Willy is much better option.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Still want to somehow replace Graham, Temple and Hayes with Burks, Barnes and Nerlens. Even if they attach future picks, it can't work salary wise.

I think Barnes makes a Burks type redundant, so I'm going with Barnes and Noel as to what the need it the play offs

Actually the more I think about this is I only go for Barnes if it means they can get him without giving up a future first.
For a rental it's too much and not someone they should target as a future piece. He'll only take minutes from Trey, Daniels and the Lakers pick next season.

That's why I think I'd go for Noel and Burks for Temple and Graham.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I dont think I would trade a 1st for anybody they are targeting. You need all the cost controlled pieces you can get with where the salaries are going. And I think Griff agrees, which is why I dont think a big move happens. I dont think Graham is going to play himself into a net neutral, so really the best chance is somehow moving Hayes and Temple for some 10 million dollar expiring, but I dont know why the other team does that

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

I dont think I would trade a 1st for anybody they are targeting. You need all the cost controlled pieces you can get with where the salaries are going. And I think Griff agrees, which is why I dont think a big move happens. I dont think Graham is going to play himself into a net neutral, so really the best chance is somehow moving Hayes and Temple for some 10 million dollar expiring, but I dont know why the other team does that

A rebuilding team that values Hayes and just Temple being an expiring. That's why I think Detroit could be a possibility. Throw them some 2nds if needed. Both Noel and Burks aren't even in their rotation.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Detroit has two big man prospects better than Hayes. Just spent money on big forwards in Bogdanovic and Bagley. Have a big for are in Bey. Why would they have any use for Hayes?

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Detroit has two big man prospects better than Hayes. Just spent money on big forwards in Bogdanovic and Bagley. Have a big for are in Bey. Why would they have any use for Hayes?

Yeah I forgot they had Duren. 3 better than Hayes if you count Bagley.

Yeah I dont know then. There isn't really a market for him. Don't see he gets overpaid this offseason.

[pelafanatic]

One key will be Zion's progress on the glass. I was encouraged by his defensive rebounding yesterday. He needs to be a glass eater in closing units

I think Zion is going to figure out pretty quickly that, on this team, his easy buckets are going to come from grabbing and pushing. The more DREBs he gets, the more easy baskets.

I like Barnes as much as anybody on this board, but I don't think we go after an expiring deal. It's super important to keep at least a portion of that money on the books for the offseason

[pelafanatic]

Pels would also be wise to hold out as long as possible in case by some miracle Bam, Embiid, or Jokic breaks free. As long as we are winning, there is no reason to rush a move for some bench piece

[MichaelMcNamara]

Agree. I don’t think I trade a first unless it is for that level of player. Then, I let them all go. But for now, keep adding rookies and finding guys like Jose and Naji on min deals

[coreylaron]

Isn’t Hayes’ value going to be as an expiring anyway though?