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Thread: Lakers already in mid-season form.

  1. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    There's also never a time to use the #14 pick to try and address current needs and quick fixes. That's what trades and FA is for. And maybe late 1st/2nd round.

    The #14 pick is still very much BPA territory.
    Right but too often BPA is used to justify "high risk high reward" picks instead of the real BPA.

    One sure thing, in the current state of the League you never have enough shooting so you can't go wrong with guys like Dick, Howard or Hawkins. They all are already good college players and have the upside to be flamethrowers in the next level. If they can contribute for the team on day 1 it's just bonus at this point.

  2. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Blattman View Post
    Right but too often BPA is used to justify "high risk high reward" picks instead of the real BPA.

    One sure thing, in the current state of the League you never have enough shooting so you can't go wrong with guys like Dick, Howard or Hawkins. They all are already good college players and have the upside to be flamethrowers in the next level. If they can contribute for the team on day 1 it's just bonus at this point.
    "High risk high reward" is reserved for raw/project type players like James Nnaji. Or even Jaxson Hayes when the pels took him to an extent.

    George otoh, has a very advanced 3-level + defense skill set. His issues are purely above the shoulders, which is not a huge red flag as the #1 option at age 19. Plus he's been shown to be a very willing passer, so it's not selfishness.


    That said after George, my next favorite picks would include Jordan Hawkins. He's above Dick and far above Howard. Which definitely means neither George nor Hawkins will be there at 14.
    Last edited by luckyman; 04-21-2023 at 05:58 PM.

  3. #328
    With our luck you're probably right. I'm not necessarily opposed to the BPA philosophy and if a player like Anthony Black or Cason Wallace drops to us, the Pels will have to think long and hard. But if you are looking at a group of scorers taking the 19-year-old gunner who never saw a shot he didn't like and thinks he's going to be the next Kobe is not my preference. It's hard to get the knucklehead out of those guys and the chance that he turns out to be as good as he thinks he is is marginal. In the meantime you've got to put up with several seasons of stupid shots and dumb iso basketball while they figure things out, if they ever do. I'm out of patience. Give me a polished shooter or at least a scorer with more of track record or different profile and some length. And, honestly, for all anyone knows that guy may turn out to be the BPA anyway...

  4. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    With our luck you're probably right. I'm not necessarily opposed to the BPA philosophy and if a player like Anthony Black or Cason Wallace drops to us, the Pels will have to think long and hard. But if you are looking at a group of scorers taking the 19-year-old gunner who never saw a shot he didn't like and thinks he's going to be the next Kobe is not my preference. It's hard to get the knucklehead out of those guys and the chance that he turns out to be as good as he thinks he is is marginal. In the meantime you've got to put up with several seasons of stupid shots and dumb iso basketball while they figure things out, if they ever do. I'm out of patience. Give me a polished shooter or at least a scorer with more of track record or different profile and some length. And, honestly, for all anyone knows that guy may turn out to be the BPA anyway...
    You mean like J R Smith? Took him forever to be a functional adult.

  5. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    With our luck you're probably right. I'm not necessarily opposed to the BPA philosophy and if a player like Anthony Black or Cason Wallace drops to us, the Pels will have to think long and hard. But if you are looking at a group of scorers taking the 19-year-old gunner who never saw a shot he didn't like and thinks he's going to be the next Kobe is not my preference. It's hard to get the knucklehead out of those guys and the chance that he turns out to be as good as he thinks he is is marginal. In the meantime you've got to put up with several seasons of stupid shots and dumb iso basketball while they figure things out, if they ever do. I'm out of patience. Give me a polished shooter or at least a scorer with more of track record or different profile and some length. And, honestly, for all anyone knows that guy may turn out to be the BPA anyway...
    The bold tells me you've gone and watched a few highlight videos and maybe listened to somebody else's commentary.

    Because it's way too far over the top. Scott Drew's system doesn't allow any player to be that selfish. That's not how he plays.

    Among their main guys, which Baylor had 4 of them (w/Flagler, Cryer, and Bridges), he was tops in free throw rate (and made 79% of them) and 3rd in assist rate. So it's not like he was out there chuckin and duckin all game.

    Just need to go watch a few Baylor games to see that.
    Last edited by luckyman; 04-22-2023 at 12:33 AM.

  6. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    "High risk high reward" is reserved for raw/project type players like James Nnaji. Or even Jaxson Hayes when the pels took him to an extent.

    George otoh, has a very advanced 3-level + defense skill set. His issues are purely above the shoulders, which is not a huge red flag as the #1 option at age 19. Plus he's been shown to be a very willing passer, so it's not selfishness.


    That said after George, my next favorite picks would include Jordan Hawkins. He's above Dick and far above Howard. Which definitely means neither George nor Hawkins will be there at 14.
    "High risk high reward" are players with high ceiling and low floor. Worst case George is a chucker and a ball stopper while being a minus on defense, that's a pretty low floor to me.

    I don't see him as a superior player compared to Dick or Hawkins, both have demonstrated ability to perform in winning basketball that George haven't, so to me selecting him would be choosing upside instead of actual skills.

  7. #332
    Oh for sure, I'm not pretending to be some kind of scout. I only saw Baylor's two games in the tourney and earlier against Texas where George got hurt. He did not look good in any of those games and his season stats don't look very good.

    The draft cut ups show a kid who takes a lot of bad shots (and to be fair makes some of them) and the overall impression is of a talented player who plays like a shot-happy 19-year-old and his shooting stats seem to back up that impression. I don't want any more projects. We've got ball-dominant stars and young players to develop. At this point I'm happy to take a good role player, maybe with an elite skill, at the end of the lottery rather than dreaming on upside again. If we take him and I'm wrong, nobody will be happier than I will be. But for purposes of discussing who I'd take, at this point I'd rather have several guys ahead of Keyonte...

  8. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Blattman View Post
    "High risk high reward" are players with high ceiling and low floor. Worst case George is a chucker and a ball stopper while being a minus on defense, that's a pretty low floor to me.

    I don't see him as a superior player compared to Dick or Hawkins, both have demonstrated ability to perform in winning basketball that George haven't, so to me selecting him would be choosing upside instead of actual skills.
    Alright. I'm not going to go in circles addressing the same points with the same stats.

    As far as winning, both Baylor and Kansas lost in the 2nd round of the tourney. Kansas as a #1 seed and Baylor as a #3 seed.

    They split their season series during the year. Dick and George having their best games on the road. George especially....even drawing a 4 pt play on Dick.

  9. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    Alright. I'm not going to go in circles addressing the same points with the same stats.

    As far as winning, both Baylor and Kansas lost in the 2nd round of the tourney. Kansas as a #1 seed and Baylor as a #3 seed.

    They split their season series during the year. Dick and George having their best games on the road. George especially....even drawing a 4 pt play on Dick.
    So how do you explain his lack of playing time during the tourney ? Usually top prospect get way more run than 25mpg. Is it only bad coaching ? Because Scott Drew is never afraid to play trigger happy player (remember Pierre Jackson?) so there must be something here.

    Regarding stats did you check win shares ?
    Last edited by Blattman; 04-23-2023 at 01:42 PM.

  10. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Blattman View Post
    So how do you explain his lack of playing time during the tourney ? Usually top prospect get way more run than 25mpg. Is it only bad coaching ? Because Scott Drew is never afraid to play trigger happy player (remember Pierre Jackson?) so there must be something here.

    Regarding stats did you check win shares ?
    He averaged 28 mins during the entire season and played 25 mins in both tourney games. Wtf are you talking about ""lack of playing time"? Baylor had two upper classman guards that got the bulk of minutes on that team. Maybe you should go watch.

    There was a game Baylor lost to TCU earlier in the year on a final possession. I watched it.

    George led the team with 27 pts on 46/57/92 shooting splits. Guess how many minutes he got that game? 26. Cryer and Flagler played 34 and 31 minutes and had a combined 7/23 shooting night. George had more free throw attempts than both of them combined.

    So with that in mind, do you know how win shares work?

    If you just don't like the guy then leave it at that. Your arguments just keep getting more and more petty.

  11. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    He averaged 28 mins during the entire season and played 25 mins in both tourney games. Wtf are you talking about ""lack of playing time"? Baylor had two upper classman guards that got the bulk of minutes on that team. Maybe you should go watch.

    There was a game Baylor lost to TCU earlier in the year on a final possession. I watched it.

    George led the team with 27 pts on 46/57/92 shooting splits. Guess how many minutes he got that game? 26. Cryer and Flagler played 34 and 31 minutes and had a combined 7/23 shooting night. George had more free throw attempts than both of them combined.

    So with that in mind, do you know how win shares work?

    If you just don't like the guy then leave it at that. Your arguments just keep getting more and more petty.
    From Givony scouting report about George on March 20:

    His effectiveness and efficiency really ebbed and flowed over the last two months and his questionable shot selection and defensive lapses caused him to spend more time on the bench than you would expect this last weekend.

    So I guess it's not only me. Again I'm not saying George is a bad prospect just that I don't see him as far better than the other late lottery prospects.

  12. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Blattman View Post
    From Givony scouting report about George on March 20:

    His effectiveness and efficiency really ebbed and flowed over the last two months and his questionable shot selection and defensive lapses caused him to spend more time on the bench than you would expect this last weekend.

    So I guess it's not only me. Again I'm not saying George is a bad prospect just that I don't see him as far better than the other late lottery prospects.
    Cool.

  13. #338
    Might as well throw in my 2 cents while we're talking about Keyonte George:

    I have him about 16th on my personal 'big board'.

    Strengths I see:
    - Pretty crafty in the pick and roll, is fairly willing as a passer
    - Plays with a lot of poise and doesn't look like a reactionary player
    - Reasonable defender at the guard positions
    - Physically strong and good at creating advantages on ball
    - Projects as a good pull-up shooter given his form, reasonably solid process, and decent FT%
    - Fundamentally sound for the most part

    Weaknesses I see:
    - Not really explosive at all, can be generally categorised as floor-bound
    - As a result of the former, he's not an above-the-rim finisher at all which can make it difficult at the NBA level for smaller guys
    - Shot hasn't really fallen thus far, even though the process is good
    - No real projections for defensive versatility given his size
    - Isn't a real creator for others: is solid, especially for that undersized 2 role, but he's not really a lead guard

    I like him as a roleplayer but I don't see a clear pathway to stardom for him, so even though I don't hate him at all (16th is pretty good!) he wouldn't be my first choice at #14.
    Basketball.

  14. #339
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    I cant be the only one who sees cj mccolum when watching George

  15. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Speakthetruth View Post
    I cant be the only one who sees cj mccolum when watching George
    He moves his feet, plays through his chest and cuts off driving lanes and draws charges as an on-ball defender. CJ does not. CJ is a better off-ball defender.

    They both finish through contact at the rim, but I'm pretty sure Keyonte will measure out longer and bigger than CJ at age 19.

    He makes difficult reads and passes now sometimes to a fault, whereas simple pocket passes can be a journey with CJ.

    Other than ALL of that, I guess they're twins.

  16. #341

  17. #342
    Buh bye

  18. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by ml wave View Post
    Buh bye

  19. #344
    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...ment-offseason

    Following the news conference, ESPN asked James to elaborate on his statement.

    When you say you got to think about stuff, what thread should we be pulling on that?

    "If I want to continue to play," James said.

    As in next year?

    "Yeah."

    You would walk away?

    "I got to think about it."

  20. #345
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! donato's Avatar
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    He just wants the attention by keeping people "in suspense". He'll be back.

  21. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by donato View Post
    He just wants the attention by keeping people "in suspense". He'll be back.
    Maybe he'll 'hire' ESPN to produce another suspense thriller to announce his decision.

    What a diva this dude is!!

    Yep, what a whining, flopping, ego-maniac this clown is!!

    Oh, for the days of Tim Duncan!!

  22. #347
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donato View Post
    He just wants the attention by keeping people "in suspense". He'll be back.
    Exactly. He is not going anywhere. The worst kept secret in the NBA is that he wants to play with Bronny.

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