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Thread: Please do not trade Zion or Ingram for Durant

  1. #301
    Perhaps another data point in the KD saga. So Masai Ujiri appeared with Canada PM Trudeau for the usual political talking point issues. But Trudeau is pretty unpopular or controversial now. So on optics, it looks like Ujiri is lending his credibility to prop up the failing government politician.

    After a year of Durant dealing with hot-topic city government decisions that bled into his team, taking the focus off just playing basketball like he loves -- is it reasonable that KD would want no part of playing for and living in Canada? No, not because of what Chris Broussard said. The Canadian government (led by Trudeau) still has a lot of *restrictions and overall political unrest.

    On any team in the US, he's just one of many American stars responding or not responding to current US events. In Toronto? KD would immediately be the face of Canadian sports in a turbulent time there. Everything we know about KD so far -- does he really want that kind of pressure? KD likes to lay low, focus on ball, chirp on Twitter sometimes.

    In conclusion, I don't see KD being traded to the Toronto Raptors, at all. I think KD wants no part of being traded to the Toronto, and he will make sure Masai and whoever else will know that.


  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Rheem654 View Post
    Perhaps another data point in the KD saga. So Masai Ujiri appeared with Canada PM Trudeau for the usual political talking point issues. But Trudeau is pretty unpopular or controversial now. So on optics, it looks like Ujiri is lending his credibility to prop up the failing government politician.

    After a year of Durant dealing with hot-topic city government decisions that bled into his team, taking the focus off just playing basketball like he loves -- is it reasonable that KD would want no part of playing for and living in Canada? No, not because of what Chris Broussard said. The Canadian government (led by Trudeau) still has a lot of *restrictions and overall political unrest.

    On any team in the US, he's just one of many American stars responding or not responding to current US events. In Toronto? KD would immediately be the face of Canadian sports in a turbulent time there. Everything we know about KD so far -- does he really want that kind of pressure? KD likes to lay low, focus on ball, chirp on Twitter sometimes.

    In conclusion, I don't see KD being traded to the Toronto Raptors, at all. I think KD wants no part of being traded to the Toronto, and he will make sure Masai and whoever else will know that.

    Is this satire

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    So, would you trade BI for Jokic?

    Again, if you are gonna talk all this culture stuff, you gotta go all the way. Otherwise, it?s basketball reasons. Which is fine, and I agree by the way.

    I just don?t like how some of my friends are being attacked on social media for being ?disloyal ? or not true fans. That?s all hogwash. Those same people saying that to them would trade Herb for Mobley or Ingram for Jokic, etc. So that loyalty stuff is BA
    Yes. The 27 year old back-to-back MVP is worth it. Adios BI!

    I'm 46 years old. I gave up judging other people for their sports fandom/allegiences/takes a looooong time ago. I'm not the Pelicans fan police.

  4. #304
    Hollygrove 4 Life DroopyDawg's Avatar
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    Fun discussion. I don’t think KD-to-Nola is a thing but I can see BI putting up these numbers this upcoming season:

    27 ppg
    39% from 3
    53% FG%
    88% FT%
    7 Rebs
    4 assists

    If healthy I think he can do it even with Zion coming back. BI showed in the playoffs he can be an elite scorer, and I think he’ll ride that confidence into this season. BTW.. those numbers above are KD’s averages for his career.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    So, would you trade BI for Jokic?

    Again, if you are gonna talk all this culture stuff, you gotta go all the way. Otherwise, it?s basketball reasons. Which is fine, and I agree by the way.

    I just don?t like how some of my friends are being attacked on social media for being ?disloyal ? or not true fans. That?s all hogwash. Those same people saying that to them would trade Herb for Mobley or Ingram for Jokic, etc. So that loyalty stuff is BA
    To be honest, I probably wouldn't, but it's harder because Jokic doesn't come with the concerns I mentioned for KD. I don't know. Maybe there's just some element of remembering how fun the end of last season was. How much we grew to love BI, Jose, Herb, and Trey that I don't want to see some of them gone already. I want to see how good this team could be with those guys taking another step forward and Zion and Dyson being added to the mix.

    Yeah. I hate seeing people being attacked for thinking otherwise as if there's only one possible opinion. I don't really engage in these types of discussions because people can't wait to beat you over the head with their "knowledge" and you lose half a day going back and forth. However, you asked a very fair question out of genuine curiosity, so I thought I'd give my reasons. However, if we trade BI, a few of the young guys, and a lot of our picks for Durant, I'm not going to be furious. I can acknowledge that there's a world in which we can become title contenders. At the end of the day, it's just our personal preference. The team is going to do what they do.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Here?s a fun hypothetical. Imagine you can look into the future with the ?no KD trade? universe. What is the WORST outcome that you would still say after peering into that future that you still would say ?I still don?t wanna trade for KD?

    Like, let?s say you can peek into 2028 and the last 6 years have been like the Jazz last 6 years. A ton of wins. Even got a top seed. But only a few playoffs series wins, no WCF and now you are trading Zion and BI to reload

    In this hypothetical you have no idea how the KD trade universe plays out. Only the no trade universe. What is the worst it could be where you still don?t want to trade for KD?
    Hitting the same, or similar roadblock(s) in consecutive years is when you start dreaming of drastic changes

    But it's far too late for Durant then

    Or is it

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by DroopyDawg View Post
    Fun discussion. I don’t think KD-to-Nola is a thing but I can see BI putting up these numbers this upcoming season:

    27 ppg
    39% from 3
    53% FG%
    88% FT%
    7 Rebs
    4 assists

    If healthy I think he can do it even with Zion coming back. BI showed in the playoffs he can be an elite scorer, and I think he’ll ride that confidence into this season. BTW.. those numbers above are KD’s averages for his career.
    I wouldn't be surprised if BI posted increased efficiency, particularly from 3 (where he had a down year last season), but I would be somewhat surprised if he set a new career high in scoring with Zion returning. Especially a new career high as high as 27ppg: we're talking about a guy who has never quite hit 24ppg in a season and scored 22ppg last year. We're going to add a 27ppg scorer next to BI because Zion's returning, and BI's going to gain 5 points a night? It's not totally impossible but I don't think I would bet on it.

    Personally I feel like Ingram will probably reproduce similar box-score stats as he has done for the last few years as a Pel: about 23/5/5, but we'll see improved efficiency. His playmaking seemed to take an uptick last season as well so I'm hoping that will continue.
    Basketball.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if BI posted increased efficiency, particularly from 3 (where he had a down year last season), but I would be somewhat surprised if he set a new career high in scoring with Zion returning. Especially a new career high as high as 27ppg: we're talking about a guy who has never quite hit 24ppg in a season and scored 22ppg last year. We're going to add a 27ppg scorer next to BI because Zion's returning, and BI's going to gain 5 points a night? It's not totally impossible but I don't think I would bet on it.

    Personally I feel like Ingram will probably reproduce similar box-score stats as he has done for the last few years as a Pel: about 23/5/5, but we'll see improved efficiency. His playmaking seemed to take an uptick last season as well so I'm hoping that will continue.
    Ingram being a better facilitator than KD in his prime (and also now) is an underrated discussion point on who is the better fit, particularly how the Pels probably have a better distribution of scorers than those all time GSW teams did

  9. #309
    Hollygrove 4 Life DroopyDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if BI posted increased efficiency, particularly from 3 (where he had a down year last season), but I would be somewhat surprised if he set a new career high in scoring with Zion returning. Especially a new career high as high as 27ppg: we're talking about a guy who has never quite hit 24ppg in a season and scored 22ppg last year. We're going to add a 27ppg scorer next to BI because Zion's returning, and BI's going to gain 5 points a night? It's not totally impossible but I don't think I would bet on it.

    Personally I feel like Ingram will probably reproduce similar box-score stats as he has done for the last few years as a Pel: about 23/5/5, but we'll see improved efficiency. His playmaking seemed to take an uptick last season as well so I'm hoping that will continue.
    Phoenix was one of the better defensive teams with a couple of the better wing defenders in the league, and BI went for 30+ avg over the course of 6 games. It’s not impossible for him to top his career avg… unlikely maybe…. But he can do it.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    Is this satire
    You took the Blue Pill. Go back to sleep, Cypher.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by DroopyDawg View Post
    Phoenix was one of the better defensive teams with a couple of the better wing defenders in the league, and BI went for 30+ avg over the course of 6 games. It’s not impossible for him to top his career avg… unlikely maybe…. But he can do it.
    He was also playing 40 minutes a night (which he won't do in the regular season, for very good reason) and taking 20 shots a game, which he won't do (also for good reason) when Zion is back. So there are good reasons not to map that set of playoff numbers on to his projected next regular season.

    So far he's played basically 34 minutes a game and taken about 17-18 shots per night every season as a Pel. With Zion back, and theoretically a deeper team, I don't see any reason why those numbers should increase in the regular season. They'll probably stay about the same. Hell, I wouldn't even be shocked if they dropped slightly - with Zion, CJ, and JV on the team as well there will be plenty of opportunities for him to rest up a little.

    Like I said - and here's where I agree with you - it wouldn't be impossible for him to set a new career high, though I am slightly sceptical. And I'm even more sceptical about that new career high being 27ppg, when you consider all of those factors.

    What I do hope to see continue on from the playoffs, though, is his 3pt shooting. He had a down year last season - 32%. His worst year as a Pel. But in the playoffs he shot 40%. I hope that with Zion back, helping spacing, plus a full season of CJ rather than him joining mid-year, Ingram will be able to bring his shooting back up to the high 30s, potentially even 40%. Wouldn't shock me if he shot a career best from 3 this year.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by DroopyDawg View Post
    Phoenix was one of the better defensive teams with a couple of the better wing defenders in the league, and BI went for 30+ avg over the course of 6 games. It’s not impossible for him to top his career avg… unlikely maybe…. But he can do it.
    I think his assist and rebound numbers are likely to keep moving up. His stat line can be something like '20/'21 Paul George, which is still all-star worthy.

    But between CJ, Zion, BI, and even Jonas, somebody's going to see their scoring drop. And it won't be Zion.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    Is this satire
    Has to be satire.
    I've been leading an organization and living in Canada for over a year now. Politics in Canada, especially at the federal level, aren't nearly the all consuming part of daily life they've become in the States.
    I completely disagreed with Chris Broussard's take on playing in Toronto. If Masai can't sell that City to an NBA player, he's been overrated as a GM.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    I think his assist and rebound numbers are likely to keep moving up. His stat line can be something like '20/'21 Paul George, which is still all-star worthy.

    But between CJ, Zion, BI, and even Jonas, somebody's going to see their scoring drop. And it won't be Zion.
    Until Zion can prove he can stay relatively healthy I think BI will be asked to score more in stretches while Zion is out. He has his own injury concerns but he doesn’t have the concerns that Z does. But yes I agree while Zion is there BI’s assist numbers will tick up.

  15. #315
    "The Pelicans have assets to get Durant, but multiple NBA executives don’t think a small market team like New Orleans would make a strong push for Durant since they have two young All-Stars in Zion Williamson signed to an extension and Brandon Ingram signed through the next three seasons. Other rival executives believe Durant wouldn’t want to be traded to New Orleans." -- Michael Scotto

  16. #316
    Don’t read Scotto

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketfox View Post
    "The Pelicans have assets to get Durant, but multiple NBA executives don’t think a small market team like New Orleans would make a strong push for Durant since they have two young All-Stars in Zion Williamson signed to an extension and Brandon Ingram signed through the next three seasons. Other rival executives believe Durant wouldn’t want to be traded to New Orleans." -- Michael Scotto
    No offense to rocketfox, but I've come to those conclusions myself, with no sauces.

  18. #318
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    This new "trade me or fire my GM and my handpicked coach" demand by KD is nuts.

    What GM would trade for KD now? If you're a GM and trade for KD, and have a bad season, will he demand that you be fired? No thanks!

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Upper Decker View Post
    This new "trade me or fire my GM and my handpicked coach" demand by KD is nuts.

    What GM would trade for KD now? If you're a GM and trade for KD, and have a bad season, will he demand that you be fired? No thanks!
    I honestly wouldn?t want KD if it required giving up anything of value at this point. He is an entitled narcissist.

  20. #320
    I think that new report is a nets leverage play

  21. #321
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    The New Orleans Pelicans remain interested in a deal for Kevin Durant, according to a source, and can put together a compelling package around All-Star forward Brandon Ingram, role players like Herbert Jones, Devonte Graham and Jose Alvarado, and the remaining draft compensation they received from both the Los Angeles Lakers in the Anthony Davis trade and the Milwaukee Bucks in the Jrue Holiday trade.
    - HoopsHype

    They must be on that stuff Aaron Rogers was doing.

  22. #322
    For my part, which I understand does not move the needle, it depends on a couple of things.

    Are you moving faces of the franchise. Are you doing right by them (like Jrue)
    The faces you are bringing in - do they fit the culture ?
    Are they a contributing part , do they orbit what you have built or are they trying to make everything orbit around them ?
    Do they seem to "get" New Orleans , the city , the fans, the market, and embrace it ?

    Moving Hart stung, but the team still felt like itself afterwards and we are definitely better now.

    Moving BI ? He is one of the best who has played for us and embraced us. At the moment he is the face of the franchise for many. He is a young all star level player. I don't see how you move him unless he wanted to be moved like Jrue did.

    Zion is the optimistic hope of the team and is finally saying and doing the right things. Moving him would require someone who makes it clear they want to be here as much or more than he has and with a similar potential. He is aprt of the hope of the new culture but not a cornerstone. I would really rather not move a possible generational talent, but if there was a move where we got better and the parts that came loved the city , fit the culture of the team etc then I could live with it.

    CJ took the hard work BI laid down and catalyzed us into something special. He needs to tell his story in this town yet. Trading him this early would feel like we are back in the coaching carousel. It would disturb the building culture too much even though he just got here. The team was so hungry for the solid veteran presence of a superstar, especially after Jrue left. It is much too early to move on from him without causing upheaval.

    Lastly you cannot bring in an Anthony Davis/Eric Gordon kind of situation. You cannot make the team orbit someone who is year in year out keeping you hostage. As we are seeing, there is no security in a contract. There seems to be nothing more important then having your core 2-3 buying into the system , the fans and the local market. That makes BI and CJ near untouchable and if Zion follows through with what he is saying now joining them.

  23. #323
    I?ve soured on KD. Not really feeling him in terms of locker room chemistry.

  24. #324
    We need to keep Ingram he still is super young and he’s laid back with a fiery game he cares

  25. #325
    I still would do Zion for him in a few months when the trade restriction lifts. But I wouldn?t do BI. I also don?t really love the other route of giving up all the young dudes and picks for him because I don?t think those 4 (KD, CJ, Zion, BI) compliment each other well

    I don?t worry about the other stuff. Young black head coach, Trajan, and Swin, Teresa, Vinson, etc?. I know this probably won?t be 2022 PC but you look at the places he gets frustrated, it?s all white leadership (Marks, Nash, Meyers, Kerr, Brooks, Presti, etc)

    Comes to the South, tons of black leadership plus CJ, I don?t think he is an issue. If it?s just Zion and say Graham and other filler, I think Pels are in the hunt for the next few years and good even after him and CJ leave because Herb, Trey, Daniels, etc competed in high level games plus hopefully you got at least one more stud with a Lakers pick
    @mcnamara247

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