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Thread: Please do not trade Zion or Ingram for Durant

  1. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I still would do Zion for him in a few months when the trade restriction lifts. But I wouldn?t do BI. I also don?t really love the other route of giving up all the young dudes and picks for him because I don?t think those 4 (KD, CJ, Zion, BI) compliment each other well

    I don?t worry about the other stuff. Young black head coach, Trajan, and Swin, Teresa, Vinson, etc?. I know this probably won?t be 2022 PC but you look at the places he gets frustrated, it?s all white leadership (Marks, Nash, Meyers, Kerr, Brooks, Presti, etc)

    Comes to the South, tons of black leadership plus CJ, I don?t think he is an issue. If it?s just Zion and say Graham and other filler, I think Pels are in the hunt for the next few years and good even after him and CJ leave because Herb, Trey, Daniels, etc competed in high level games plus hopefully you got at least one more stud with a Lakers pick
    Hasn't Zion and his camp done a complete 180 about staying in New Orleans now though?

    All of those 4 can operate on or off ball
    Last edited by AusPel; 08-10-2022 at 08:56 AM.

  2. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Hasn't Zion and his camp done a complete 180 about staying in New Orleans now though?
    If you believe the reporting, yes. If you listen to what Zion has said, he's always wanted to be here.

  3. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I still would do Zion for him in a few months when the trade restriction lifts. But I wouldn?t do BI. I also don?t really love the other route of giving up all the young dudes and picks for him because I don?t think those 4 (KD, CJ, Zion, BI) compliment each other well

    I don?t worry about the other stuff. Young black head coach, Trajan, and Swin, Teresa, Vinson, etc?. I know this probably won?t be 2022 PC but you look at the places he gets frustrated, it?s all white leadership (Marks, Nash, Meyers, Kerr, Brooks, Presti, etc)

    Comes to the South, tons of black leadership plus CJ, I don?t think he is an issue. If it?s just Zion and say Graham and other filler, I think Pels are in the hunt for the next few years and good even after him and CJ leave because Herb, Trey, Daniels, etc competed in high level games plus hopefully you got at least one more stud with a Lakers pick
    What has KD done in the past to make you think that the race of management is a factor? Did he not handpick Steve Nash? Did he not choose to go to Brooklyn where the GM is white? And you're conveniently ignoring the fact that Griff is in charge here in New Orleans. KD has been frustrated in other places not because their leadership is white, its that he's a frustrated dude.

    Its not that your take is un-PC, its just a bad take.

  4. #329
    He loved Ollie and lobbied for him. Same with Derek Fisher.

    It’s fine. Nobody will agree in public. But we all know that this era of athletes prefers leadership that looks like them and has a similar background (actually played the game). As long as they are competent of course. Willie is the same exact person and is white and didn’t play in the NBA, there isn’t the same buy in. We can all act fake offended by that but we all know it’s true
    @mcnamara247

  5. #330
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    That was the biggest source of disconnect with SVG and guys like BI, IMO. Dude was knowledgeable as all get out but not everyone is Steve Kerr. And even he knows not to overstep or assume too much I imagine.

  6. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    He loved Ollie and lobbied for him. Same with Derek Fisher.

    It’s fine. Nobody will agree in public. But we all know that this era of athletes prefers leadership that looks like them and has a similar background (actually played the game). As long as they are competent of course. Willie is the same exact person and is white and didn’t play in the NBA, there isn’t the same buy in. We can all act fake offended by that but we all know it’s true
    I'm not offended and no, we don't all know it is true.

    You can believe what you want, but don't tell me what I believe and what I know to be true. It is the pinnacle of arrogance to claim that someone who disagrees with you secretly agrees with you. SVG's problem wasn't that he was white. He was a jerk.

  7. #332
    Also, whether Zion is bought in for real or not - has no impact in me wanting to trade him for KD. You gotta give to get and pure basketball I would trade him for KD

  8. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Upper Decker View Post
    I'm not offended and no, we don't all know it is true.

    You can believe what you want, but don't tell me what I believe and what I know to be true. It is the pinnacle of arrogance to claim that someone who disagrees with you secretly agrees with you. SVG's problem wasn't that he was white. He was a jerk.
    Someone woke up cranky today. Dude, relax. It’s a message board that has no participation. Just playing the roll of villain to get some posts for once. Geez, let a troll troll

  9. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Someone woke up cranky today. Dude, relax. It’s a message board that has no participation. Just playing the roll of villain to get some posts for once. Geez, let a troll troll
    My bad. Kisses!

  10. #335
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Michael, I admire you. You say what no one else is willing to say.

    EGGSHELLS BE DAMNED!!
    The most important ABILITY that a player must demonstrate in order to claim "Superstar Status" is AVAILABILITY!!

  11. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I still would do Zion for him in a few months when the trade restriction lifts. But I wouldn?t do BI. I also don?t really love the other route of giving up all the young dudes and picks for him because I don?t think those 4 (KD, CJ, Zion, BI) compliment each other well

    I don?t worry about the other stuff. Young black head coach, Trajan, and Swin, Teresa, Vinson, etc?. I know this probably won?t be 2022 PC but you look at the places he gets frustrated, it?s all white leadership (Marks, Nash, Meyers, Kerr, Brooks, Presti, etc)

    Comes to the South, tons of black leadership plus CJ, I don?t think he is an issue. If it?s just Zion and say Graham and other filler, I think Pels are in the hunt for the next few years and good even after him and CJ leave because Herb, Trey, Daniels, etc competed in high level games plus hopefully you got at least one more stud with a Lakers pick
    I assume we'd want no part of taking Simmons back so they'd have to offload him somewhere else...that seems difficult for them to do without taking a dropoff talentwise. Hollinger argues that Nets should tank anyway since their trade with Houston is only a pick swap next year but they don't seem like they're interested in that. Agree with you on the off-court fit for KD here...plus could you imagine the ridicule he'd get if he tried to force his way off his next team (wherever that winds up being)?

  12. #337
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    In all seriousness, I would be careful not to imply that successful black coaches/GMs are only successful because the black players feel more comfortable around them. Let's make sure we don't devolve into Tigerdroppings.

  13. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Upper Decker View Post
    In all seriousness, I would be careful not to imply that successful black coaches/GMs are only successful because the black players feel more comfortable around them. Let's make sure we don't devolve into Tigerdroppings.
    See, in 2022, that’s how people read things. I never once implied that was the only reason for their success, yet I have no doubt a woke person (not you) would take it that way

    God, I hate this era

  14. #339
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    I understand the thought of trading Zion for KD, but I would not do it. KD's attitude sends up too many red flags for me. If I were a GM, would I want to trade a 22 year old #1 overall pick for a 34 year old who is acting like a prima donna trying to get his coach and GM fired? Griffin has spoken too much about culture to make that move IMO.

  15. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    See, in 2022, that’s how people read things. I never once implied that was the only reason for their success, yet I have no doubt a woke person (not you) would take it that way

    God, I hate this era
    Get used to having to consider other peoples' feelings.

    That's what being woke means to me. Using people's preferred pronouns. Its not hard. Not using language about people that those people find offensive. Its okay, you'll adapt. You seem like a reasonably intelligent fellow.

  16. #341
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    I love our core and don't want to trade any of them. At least, not before the season starts.

  17. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Upper Decker View Post
    Get used to having to consider other peoples' feelings.

    That's what being woke means to me. Using people's preferred pronouns. Its not hard. Not using language about people that those people find offensive. Its okay, you'll adapt. You seem like a reasonably intelligent fellow.
    If that’s all woke was, I would have no problem with it

    To me, it is a result of millions of people who realize they will never accomplish anything meaningful so they get their value from whining about something and pointing out imperfections of others. I think that maybe 4% of it comes from a good place. The other 96% comes as a result of what I put above

  18. #343
    The ?woke? concept is one of the most **************ized and misrepresented words in the English language today, and it frustrates me to see it co-opted on this chain. The concept of being ?Woke? originated from post slavery African-Americans becoming self-aware of the inequalities they were subject to. Basically slaves recognizing for the 1st time that black people did not exist just to be a slaves, but were actually humans of the same species as white people. This was a conversation piece among African Americans in the late 1800?s that all African Americans need to be ?awoken? to that fact.

    In the 1930s it reappeared as part of the civil rights movement and was co-opted by black militant groups trying to recruit young black members. This is where it 1st joined the larger lexicon of American language and also where it 1st started to be **************ized by white people.

    I?m sure someone will show their ignorance and comment about me virtue signaling with this post. I really don?t care, but I hope at least 1 person learns from this and recognizes how inherently racist it is to use that phrase as a demeaning insult for being too sensitive.

    FYI. I understand the comments above about ?woke? are not in any way intended to be racist, I am just trying to point out the general ignorance around the phrase.

    MM:
    As for your original point that black players prefer black coaches who played. I think that is very true, But I don?t think that is representative of just this era. I would argue that all humans (throughout our entire existence) are more likely to trust and respect a person that they relate to. It?s only relevant and obvious in the NBA today because there are so many more qualified black men able to get head coaching jobs. I?m sure players in the 80s would have preferred to be coached by black coaches just like white players probably preferred to be coached by white coaches.

    It?s a natural tribalistic instinct to trust those you relate to over those you don?t. Obviously people can respect persons they don?t relate to, and not respect persons they do relate to. but I think there are less instinctual hurdles to clear for when someone can relate to the experience of another.

    If Willie green was a short fat white guy like SVG, I don’t think the “you gotta fight” speech would have hit the same.
    Last edited by Savvy_Bird; 08-11-2022 at 10:21 AM.

  19. #344
    Everything is racist in 2022. Unless it?s sexist. Or both. Or some other ist?FWIW - when I think of a woke person, I think of a white liberal. All my black friends dislike it as much as I do. It?s the white virtual signalers who are the problem
    Last edited by MichaelMcNamara; 08-11-2022 at 11:09 AM.

  20. #345
    It's much less of an issue in general until people make it an issue, which usually comes from loony tunes right-wingers trying to manufacture a cause to put the left down. If someone wants their race/sexuality/whatever to be recognized/respected, or be called by a different pronoun etc., it's much easier to just tolerate it if it annoys you and go about your business. Being outraged and complaining about it all the time is what keeps it in conversations.

    Anyway, how about some legitimate basketball talk instead of self-proclaimed troll posts intentionally made to stir the pot.

  21. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by donato View Post
    It's much less of an issue in general until people make it an issue, which usually comes from loony tunes right-wingers trying to manufacture a cause to put the left down. If someone wants their race/sexuality/whatever to be recognized/respected, or be called by a different pronoun etc., it's much easier to just tolerate it if it annoys you and go about your business. Being outraged and complaining about it all the time is what keeps it in conversations.

    Anyway, how about some legitimate basketball talk instead of self-proclaimed troll posts intentionally made to stir the pot.
    Good post. I work with wheelchair users. They don't like to be called "wheelchair bound." It is demeaning and implies lack of agency. So I correct people a lot. Language evolves. Being part of a society involves change. Change can be hard. I get it.

    Back to basketball: Independent of what we want to do with respect to Kevin Durant, I believe Griff's comments have painted him in a corner. You can't speak so highly of Zion and BI and then turn around and trade them. You would lose all credibility. And he already has a reputation of being a bit two-faced.

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