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Thread: Second Round Sleepers

  1. #1

    Second Round Sleepers

    First off, no I do not believe that the Pelicans will have a second round pick on the roster this year. Just too many spots taken already, plus an 8th overall pick will be added to an already pretty young roster. Monty used to talk a lot about this, but there is coaching and teaching, and you can only teach so many guys at a time. That said, the Pels have two second round picks currently, and they did just see how beneficial hitting on the right second round pick can be with Herb. Personally, I have a spotty track record with identifying the best first round picks, but I used to write a piece on BSS every year about my second round sleepers and I crushed that. Why? Because they are super easy to identify when you look historically. Almost all of them are upperclassman or foreign, and they all usually have high IQ but lack one trait that limits their perceived upside (usually a non ideal body type, or athletic markers, or shooting)

    So, with that in mind, here are the most likely candidates for guys who will be drafted in the second round but will vastly outperform their draft position:

    1. Andrew Nembhard, PG, Gonzaga - Could easily become this years Jalen Brunson. Lacks the burst, so will drop to the 2nd despite fantastic college career.

    2. Jake LaRavia, Forward, Wake Forest - Might be moving into the late 1st, but will be a solid 3/4 who wont be drafted high because he lacks top tier athleticism. Has high IQ, though

    3. Trevion Williams, Big, Purdue - Classic undersized big, in the mold of Xavier Tillman. Can see his IQ through his passing and defensive rotations

    4. David Roddy, Big, Colorado State - He keeps falling in mocks but I think that is because people are thinking about his vulnerabilities as a starter. Roddy is an ideal bench big in the mold of DeJuan Blair or Malik Rose. Weird body, but that doesnt matter as much on a 2nd unit. Probably my personal favorite if Pels do keep pick.

    5. Ron Harper, Jr, Wing, Rutgets - Long wing who can hit from deep, has NBA pedigree, and high IQ. Honestly, a little surprised he isnt mocked higher. The kind of guy you take a chance on, develop, and becomes your Dorien Finney-Smith

    I would love if the Pels used their two-ways this year on guys they take in the second round. For me, Roddy and Harper, Jr would be the ideal, realistic picks for where they are in the second round.
    @mcnamara247

  2. #2
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! kinglio21093's Avatar
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    I've seen a few Rutgers games last season, and I absolutely loved Ron Harper Jr. Kid's got all the intangibles. He's not a sexy pick because of his school (I actually see him going undrafted in some mocks), but he's definitely a guy I'd want to nab with a second rounder or if he's available, a two way.

  3. #3
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Harper also measured very well at the combine. If i recall, I think he had a large wingspan. I would like them to use a 2-way on one as well. May be tough to get someone at 41 that will agree to a 2-way though.

  4. #4
    https://youtu.be/FeKsurT6zqY

    Harper Jr fits right in personality wise

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    First off, no I do not believe that the Pelicans will have a second round pick on the roster this year. Just too many spots taken already, plus an 8th overall pick will be added to an already pretty young roster. Monty used to talk a lot about this, but there is coaching and teaching, and you can only teach so many guys at a time. That said, the Pels have two second round picks currently, and they did just see how beneficial hitting on the right second round pick can be with Herb. Personally, I have a spotty track record with identifying the best first round picks, but I used to write a piece on BSS every year about my second round sleepers and I crushed that. Why? Because they are super easy to identify when you look historically. Almost all of them are upperclassman or foreign, and they all usually have high IQ but lack one trait that limits their perceived upside (usually a non ideal body type, or athletic markers, or shooting)

    So, with that in mind, here are the most likely candidates for guys who will be drafted in the second round but will vastly outperform their draft position:

    1. Andrew Nembhard, PG, Gonzaga - Could easily become this years Jalen Brunson. Lacks the burst, so will drop to the 2nd despite fantastic college career.

    2. Jake LaRavia, Forward, Wake Forest - Might be moving into the late 1st, but will be a solid 3/4 who wont be drafted high because he lacks top tier athleticism. Has high IQ, though

    3. Trevion Williams, Big, Purdue - Classic undersized big, in the mold of Xavier Tillman. Can see his IQ through his passing and defensive rotations

    4. David Roddy, Big, Colorado State - He keeps falling in mocks but I think that is because people are thinking about his vulnerabilities as a starter. Roddy is an ideal bench big in the mold of DeJuan Blair or Malik Rose. Weird body, but that doesnt matter as much on a 2nd unit. Probably my personal favorite if Pels do keep pick.

    5. Ron Harper, Jr, Wing, Rutgets - Long wing who can hit from deep, has NBA pedigree, and high IQ. Honestly, a little surprised he isnt mocked higher. The kind of guy you take a chance on, develop, and becomes your Dorien Finney-Smith

    I would love if the Pels used their two-ways this year on guys they take in the second round. For me, Roddy and Harper, Jr would be the ideal, realistic picks for where they are in the second round.


    lol Roddy gets my grant riller award. I dont know how good of a pro he will be. Perhaps a total bust. But let me say he's the last dude you wanna go against playing 3 on 3 or something in a gym. Like Riller, dude can straight up play the game of basketball. Kinda the antonym of kira lewis lol

  6. #6
    i see max christie is sliding into the second on many mock drafts. wonder why?

  7. #7
    Hall of Famer neitzelbaby12's Avatar
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    From my understanding, guys drafted at 41 wont agree to a 2 way. I could see Griff trading down from 41 to 45-50 and picking up a future 2nd. Could sell or keep 52. We've traded about half of our future 2nds in some manner so its a good opportunity to recoup assets
    Welcome to be here

  8. #8
    You can look up the last few years, and you will see that more and more guys in that range are agreeing to two ways, especially guys who love the team offering it or might go undrafted otherwise

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fullcourtpress View Post
    lol Roddy gets my grant riller award. I dont know how good of a pro he will be. Perhaps a total bust. But let me say he's the last dude you wanna go against playing 3 on 3 or something in a gym. Like Riller, dude can straight up play the game of basketball. Kinda the antonym of kira lewis lol
    Why the Kira Lewis slander? He played pretty well before his injury, he was putting it together. And he's actually in the NBA, unlike either of those other players. Fun fact, Kira was born just 10 days after David Roddy, same year.

  10. #10
    The 2 seconds will be sold

    Only chance is someone to guarantee to a 2 way

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rheem654 View Post
    Why the Kira Lewis slander? He played pretty well before his injury, he was putting it together. And he's actually in the NBA, unlike either of those other players. Fun fact, Kira was born just 10 days after David Roddy, same year.
    Did he? Or did he go from unplayably horrible to kinda okay for 3 out of every 5 games? (And this is coming from a huge Kira fan)

  12. #12
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    You can look up the last few years, and you will see that more and more guys in that range are agreeing to two ways, especially guys who love the team offering it or might go undrafted otherwise
    Yeah, there were higher drafted players the last 2 years agreeing to 2-way deals. In 2019, the highest was #44, but in 2020, there was one at 36 and 38 and in 2021, there was one at 39 and 41. Obviously would prefer the guy that loves the fit rather than one that would not get drafted otherwise (means overdrafted). I guess if we cannot get someone to agree to a 2-way, maybe Griff can deal the picks for future 2nds.

  13. #13
    And I wouldnt say either Queta or Wieskamp were overdrafted. They were projected late 1st/early 2nd.

    Sometimes you just sell a guy on your team and opportunity. Its also a 'jump first' game as players know these offers will go out to many guys, so if you dont say yes, you might miss out all together.

    Long story short, we could get a good player to say yes at 41

  14. #14
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    And I wouldnt say either Queta or Wieskamp were overdrafted. They were projected late 1st/early 2nd.

    Sometimes you just sell a guy on your team and opportunity. Its also a 'jump first' game as players know these offers will go out to many guys, so if you dont say yes, you might miss out all together.

    Long story short, we could get a good player to say yes at 41
    Would be nice, rather than selling it for cash.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Did he? Or did he go from unplayably horrible to kinda okay for 3 out of every 5 games? (And this is coming from a huge Kira fan)
    That's fair enough. But to use him as an example of "the antonym... of -[a] dude can straight up play the game of basketball," -- seems a bit out of place.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Did he? Or did he go from unplayably horrible to kinda okay for 3 out of every 5 games? (And this is coming from a huge Kira fan)
    Kinda ok in 2 out of every 5 games at certain points

    I don't understand why some Pels fans were getting hyped

  17. #17
    I own over 100 Kira rookie cards. I am rooting for the kid and think he was becoming a solid 10th man, but you gotta see him as an X factor at best going into next year. If he shows something, cool. If not, you might not even pick up the 4th year. That said, the kid is almost a full year younger than Keegan Murray. I wouldnt write him off just yet

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I own over 100 Kira rookie cards. I am rooting for the kid and think he was becoming a solid 10th man, but you gotta see him as an X factor at best going into next year. If he shows something, cool. If not, you might not even pick up the 4th year. That said, the kid is almost a full year younger than Keegan Murray. I wouldnt write him off just yet
    Exactly, he's basically like another 1st round rookie talent gamble, with 2 years less on his rookie deal. He definitely struggled at times so far, but he's also shown flashes. To be fair to him, he didn't get to be a part of the in-season turn-around and the + CJ/Nance/Jose version of the Pels. No world-beater, but it was so weird to see him mentioned as if he played like rookie-Austin Rivers.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Rheem654 View Post
    Why the Kira Lewis slander? He played pretty well before his injury, he was putting it together. And he's actually in the NBA, unlike either of those other players. Fun fact, Kira was born just 10 days after David Roddy, same year.


    LOL im pulling for Kira bro. But in all sincerity but ive seen him use his tantalizing speed countless times to blow by his man but when he nears the goal he's got no idea what he's going to do with the ball. Most dudes have crafted a go-to move in those situations but not kira. his floater is lame and non efficient. he doesnt throw em down. he's like a kid who hasnt played much hoops or something. I DID N OT

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by fullcourtpress View Post
    LOL im pulling for Kira bro. But in all sincerity but ive seen him use his tantalizing speed countless times to blow by his man but when he nears the goal he's got no idea what he's going to do with the ball. Most dudes have crafted a go-to move in those situations but not kira. his floater is lame and non efficient. he doesnt throw em down. he's like a kid who hasnt played much hoops or something. I DID N OT
    As a 19-20 year old on a bad team.... We'll keep these receipts, then we'll see what's really gon' happen... #KiraIsTheNextGreatPG

  21. #21
    cole anthony, siddiq bey, tyrese maxey, immanuel quickly, desmond bane, were all picked behind kira. he may well be good some day but it isn't gonna be for us

  22. #22
    I like the Harper Jr. call. Huge body, very strong, long arms, smart. I think will shoot it well enough as an off-ball player, and can attack a closeout or run a secondary pick and roll adequately. I think there's a good chance he can guard 2-4, and probably hold up against 5s in switches better than most perimeter players. Probably will best in a switching context, and I think the same is true for several of our guys. Would love Harper at 41. Some Josh Hart vibes, though don't think he'll be the same kind of force in transition. I do think he has more length defensively than Josh so he might hold up better against 3s and 4s.

    As a guy who might take a two-way, I like Keon Ellis. Interesting mix of defensive disruption and shooting potential. Probably too thin to stick and too old to believe he'll fill out, but if he plays stronger than his size, there's 3-and-D potential. There are moments where the on-ball defense really reminds you of Herb, and not just because they both played for Alabama (to be clear, Herb was and is a much better defensive prospect because of size and off-ball ability).

  23. #23
    LaRavia's athleticism is an interesting topic: he excelled at the combine agility and shuttle run tests, beating almost everybody, which is impressive for a 6'8" forward. He underwhelmed but wasn't terrible on the two vertical leaps. Good size, average wingspan. But if those agility scores are an accurate reflection of his ability to switch & slide on D, he could be a major steal. His very good stocks numbers are one positive sign in this regard.

  24. #24
    Hall of Famer neitzelbaby12's Avatar
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    Does anyone know anything about Gabriele Procida? He only caught my eye bc he played for Bologna and that's one of my favorite cities.
    Just turned 20 at the beginning of the month, decent shooting splits. Would be a good stash option but I'd like to know if he is insistent on coming over ASAP.

  25. #25
    I like Roddy

    That is all

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