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Thread: Ousmane Dieng

  1. #26
    Hall of Famer neitzelbaby12's Avatar
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    SVG didn't play Kira over Bledsoe and Willie kept on the Trey sidelines for most of the season. Coaches always lean towards their vets over 19 and 20 y/o rookies. They're projected lotto picks, they can become really good players but to say it's going to happen on day 1 is a bit of a leap for me. We also probably have different draft philosophies and outlooks on when this team will be competing too

    I don't love Devonte either but it seems like there's a good chance he'll be on this team to start the year. What we should hope for is Devonte benefitting a ton from the space Zion provides and he plays well enough to rehab his value by the deadline so we can trade him for neutral-ish value.
    Last edited by neitzelbaby12; 05-18-2022 at 12:04 PM.
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  2. #27
    This is the mistake too many make. Graham wouldn’t have minutes if you add Zion. I see people keep saying that. Do the 240 projected minutes with Zion. There are no Graham minutes to give to a Duncan Robinson or a number 8 pick
    Last edited by MichaelMcNamara; 05-18-2022 at 02:23 PM.
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  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    For me, its always passing. When a guy sees the whole floor and sees a second ahead of what is happening, that screams IQ to me and I always value that because I dont think that can really jump 3 or 4 levels with coaching and practice. It will get better, obviously, with time but not by huge leaps and bounds. A low IQ player wont become super high IQ like a bad shooter can become a great one in time or a bad post up scorer can become a great one after a few summers. Watch this pass at the 3 minute mark. That is a guy who sees the whole court off the pick and roll (also, the ones at 3:25, 3:35, and 4:12)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lSZ27i284Q

    I also like that he already has a one leg floater and an off the dribble jumper. Again, he was 18, playing professional ball and he should have struggled early on. But if he was the guy that he was the final 5-10 games for the whole season, I think people would be talking about him in the top 5 mix.
    He sees the court, but his teammates couldn't buy a bucket to save their lives.

  4. #29
    Hall of Famer neitzelbaby12's Avatar
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    Fair. I would like a little bit of assurance bc of injuries with Zion, BI, an aging CJ. I've been in the boat of the 8th pick not playing.

    I'd ideally like to offload Jax in a Graham trade and play a little smaller too. I'm still in the boat of riding this team into next year overall, it's fun to think about these things this time of year.

  5. #30
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    This is the mistake too many make. Graham wouldn?t have minutes if you add Zion. I see people keep saying that. Do the 240 projected minutes with Zion. There are no Graham minutes to give to a Duncan Robinson or a number 8 pick
    Willie is going to find a way to go 10 deep and I think they'll try and limit Zion to no more than 27 mpg.
    Jonas should also see something closer to 26 mpg next season. And I'd be surprised if they didn't try to take CJs minutes down a bit as well.
    What'll be interesting is what they decide to do with BI. He's been playing 34mpg as a Pelican, but hasn't been able to play more than 62 games.

    I think your point that there aren't going to be a lot of minutes to go around is right, but I think the Pels will go 10 deep no matter what and should be looking to save some of their guys for the playoffs if they feel good about the way guys 6-10 play and their rotation.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    Willie is going to find a way to go 10 deep and I think they'll try and limit Zion to no more than 27 mpg.
    Jonas should also see something closer to 26 mpg next season. And I'd be surprised if they didn't try to take CJs minutes down a bit as well.
    What'll be interesting is what they decide to do with BI. He's been playing 34mpg as a Pelican, but hasn't been able to play more than 62 games.

    I think your point that there aren't going to be a lot of minutes to go around is right, but I think the Pels will go 10 deep no matter what and should be looking to save some of their guys for the playoffs if they feel good about the way guys 6-10 play and their rotation.
    Starting 5 plus Nance, Jose, Trey, Jax (for now) is 9. Kira, Willy, Graham, Naji, pick 8 all competing for the 10th man spot. And yes, injuries happen, but you dont spend 18 mil per year (Duncan Robinson) on an insurance policy. You dont use the 8th pick to have an insurance policy for this year. You dont go out of your way to trade a negative asset who might redeem his value for an insurance policy.

    Again, I know how this goes. In the offseason, fans want to build the best team on paper possible. Impatience. History says make that move in February. History says draft BPA for the long term. But history also says fans will want to forgo both and build the best possible roster for late October. Rinse and repeat

  7. #32
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Starting 5 plus Nance, Jose, Trey, Jax (for now) is 9. Kira, Willy, Graham, Naji, pick 8 all competing for the 10th man spot. And yes, injuries happen, but you dont spend 18 mil per year (Duncan Robinson) on an insurance policy. You dont use the 8th pick to have an insurance policy for this year. You dont go out of your way to trade a negative asset who might redeem his value for an insurance policy.

    Again, I know how this goes. In the offseason, fans want to build the best team on paper possible. Impatience. History says make that move in February. History says draft BPA for the long term. But history also says fans will want to forgo both and build the best possible roster for late October. Rinse and repeat
    To be clear. I don't want to add another vet. I was only using your response about available minutes to suggest that we likely need to consider capping the minutes of 4 of our starters, meaning we're going to have be as deep as we think are. That's why I'm a fan of moving up. You get all the rookie upside and cap value, but you also get a guy that might be able earn minutes.

  8. #33
    Well, let's be fair Mike. It's not always that easy to go out and get a plug-n-play veteran to fill a need, as the Pels have demonstrated in many a February, and it often isn't cheap either. If the Pels could come out of the draft with a long, athletic shooter to take Graham's minutes as a scorer off the bench who also has the potential to be in your finishing five in a few years or even your sixth man, that would be fantastic. You also seem to operate on the assumption that rookies won't see the floor. But they do, every year including for us last year in a big way. You also seem overconfident in your powers to determine years in advance what a guy's "ceiling" is despite the fact that every year dozens of front office guys who scout for living misjudge that very outcome. A couple of years back you hated the idea of taking Bey and before that loved Sekou. I think a little less certitude about these guys and their "floor" or "ceiling" is warranted!

    Where we are in the draft think it's fine to take a guy who gives you something now so long as you don't think that's all he'll ever give you. It's about as likely that Adbaji or Griffin will turn out to be the next Jimmy Butler as it is that Dieng turns out to be the next Giannis...

  9. #34
    I can definitely get behind this.

    This pick is like playing with house money. Like has already been said, the player isn't going to get many minutes AND we have a great chance at getting an even better pick from the Lakers in a season or two.

    Go big or go.....nah just go big and pick the biggest boom or bust developmental player.
    The NBA draft is for loser farm teams that cultivate young players to be shipped off to better teams when they hit their prime. We've ascended from a farm team to one of the contenders that has its core and adds pieces through free agency and trades. We've arrived. Pinkies out, lads!

  10. #35
    Hollygrove 4 Life DroopyDawg's Avatar
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    Dieng has time to become a better/stronger player... he's only 18. Hell, send him to Birmingham for the first half of the season and let him get some minutes there because he probably won't see many in our current rotation.

    He has the shooting form to be a decent shooter... Vinson won't need to knock out some funky hitch in his release. Dieng has a solid handle and for a 6'10 guy he's not lumbering around out there he's pretty light on his feet. And I love that he already has a floater.

    He will definitely need to get stronger to absorb contact. I'd be on board with taking him at 8, but I would REALLY prefer to take a guy like Mathurin if he's still available.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    From the little I've seen of him, I don't really see it. He has great length, but I don't see him as an above average NBA athlete and while he has some embryonic P&R stuff and shooting flashes, he doesn't play with much force. He reminds me a little of Poku, probably a better handle and fewer WTF moments, but also probably less rim protection and the shooting doesn't look as pure. It's hard to imagine what he does on his first contract that gets him on the court on a competitive team. It's a valuable player archetype if it were to work, but from what I've seen I like the idea of the player better than the player.
    This is what i see from him as well although i would go with a slightly faster kyle anderson as my comp. He doesn't look that athletic and i agree with the lack of force that he plays.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    This is the mistake too many make. Graham wouldn’t have minutes if you add Zion. I see people keep saying that. Do the 240 projected minutes with Zion. There are no Graham minutes to give to a Duncan Robinson or a number 8 pick
    You're right about this. In addition, my amateur opinion is that in general Memphis and other good teams have 3 more good players than the Pelicans do. Let's say Zion and the number 8 pick are 2 of the 3. Who's the 3rd? Kira Lewis back from injury? Jaxson Hayes with grooming by Nance and Green? Someone who comes back in a trade of Devontae Graham? In tough games that count there should not only be no Graham minutes, there should be no Naji minutes and reduced Jose minutes.

  13. #38
    A second unit scorer/shooter/creator is both a hole on the current roster and something all contending teams need long term. There was some hope Graham could fill that role for the Pels, but he fell well short at least this year. Plus he is too short.

    I leave it to the board to decide which if any of the guards or wings available at 8 have sufficient merit to warrant our pick, but we absolutely need a bigger, scoring backcourt player who can defend and switch credibly on the pick and roll without being hunted constantly and we don’t just need him for next year…

  14. #39
    Hollygrove 4 Life DroopyDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    A second unit scorer/shooter/creator is both a hole on the current roster and something all contending teams need long term. There was some hope Graham could fill that role for the Pels, but he fell well short at least this year. Plus he is too short.
    This is why I'm hoping for Mathurin.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by DroopyDawg View Post
    This is why I'm hoping for Mathurin.
    Same. I like his game.

  16. #41
    Back Door Man RUFshreve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    From the little I've seen of him, I don't really see it. He has great length, but I don't see him as an above average NBA athlete and while he has some embryonic P&R stuff and shooting flashes, he doesn't play with much force. He reminds me a little of Poku, probably a better handle and fewer WTF moments, but also probably less rim protection and the shooting doesn't look as pure. It's hard to imagine what he does on his first contract that gets him on the court on a competitive team. It's a valuable player archetype if it were to work, but from what I've seen I like the idea of the player better than the player.
    Agree completely. I get drafting for upside, but that's all the kid is at this point. I don't think he would contribute anything(and I mean anything) for atleast 2-3 years. The Pelicans are ready to compete. Give me a prospect with upside, that has atleast one great to elite skill that's ready to translate now. If we traded down and got Dieng, fine. If we take him at 8, I'd be disappointed, to say the least.

  17. #42
    Back Door Man RUFshreve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    This is the mistake too many make. Graham wouldn?t have minutes if you add Zion. I see people keep saying that. Do the 240 projected minutes with Zion. There are no Graham minutes to give to a Duncan Robinson or a number 8 pick
    Well that would require perfect health and when has that ever happened for us?

    The #8 pick can absolutely play a bench role this year, assuming the right player is taken. This is likely our biggest upgrade/addition of the off-season. Let's use it one someone who can help this ready to contend team, sooner than 2-3 years from now. Lots of players that fit that criteria, that also have extremely high ceilings.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by RUFshreve View Post
    Well that would require perfect health and when has that ever happened for us?

    The #8 pick can absolutely play a bench role this year, assuming the right player is taken. This is likely our biggest upgrade/addition of the off-season. Let's use it one someone who can help this ready to contend team, sooner than 2-3 years from now. Lots of players that fit that criteria, that also have extremely high ceilings.
    8th + free agent signing Zion

  19. #44
    Bumping this post because the Dieng stuff is very real and people should watch a video or read up a bit before the draft if they havent already. Some stuff that has come out since this thread started:

    Media Availability that lets you see his personality and thought process


    Solid Scouting Breakdown

  20. #45
    Back Door Man RUFshreve's Avatar
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    Can you please just stop stressing me out with this Dieng BS already?

    I feel like you're doing this to torture me.

  21. #46
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Bumping this post because the Dieng stuff is very real and people should watch a video or read up a bit before the draft if they havent already. Some stuff that has come out since this thread started:

    Media Availability that lets you see his personality and thought process


    Solid Scouting Breakdown
    Any tread on potential ancillary deals you mentioned (I think some sniffing around a deal with Philly for Hayes/Temple or TWolves for Hayes)?

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by RUFshreve View Post
    Can you please just stop stressing me out with this Dieng BS already?

    I feel like you're doing this to torture me.
    BS? I told y'all this months ago. Just finally starting to believe me now. Thats on you - you could have been better prepared, lmao

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Any tread on potential ancillary deals you mentioned (I think some sniffing around a deal with Philly for Hayes/Temple or TWolves for Hayes)?
    Nothing new, no. Just teams feeling around, looking for best deals and possibilities. The thing with our guys is that teams know they aint going anywhere. Not like you gotta jump on Jax now or fear missing out. And if you miss out, oh well, its Jaxson freaking Hayes.

  24. #49
    Back Door Man RUFshreve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    BS? I told y'all this months ago. Just finally starting to believe me now. Thats on you - you could have been better prepared, lmao
    I know you did, and it's been stressing me out for months I'm never gonna be prepared for it actually happening. Just give me some peace and tell me it's gonna be Daniels or Mathurin until 7 pm.

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