2021 - 2022 Tank thread/ NBA draft thread/Trade ideas

[As I See It]

Well, I certainly didn't write it (as your quote makes it seem). And to nitpick, I don't think you see his warts when you throw an "if his head is straight" out there like he's just recovering from an ankle sprain or something. How would we (the team, not us as fans) have any idea if his head is straight? Did Brooklyn think his head was straight when they traded Harden for him only to have to endure weeks of media reports hinting that he was constantly on the verge of playing before he ultimately never suited up? If you watch any of Steve Nash's comments from the playoffs, it didn't look like he enjoyed the whole situation. Not to mention you can't say you're acknowledging his warts if you only mention his shooting in a positive sense.

I have stated throughout this diatribe with you that there is more to Simmons' game then the REAL numbers I cited.

Again:

I stand by my belief: if his head is straight, Ben Simmons would take this team to the next level. He's a 50%+ shooter who is simply satisfied dropping dimes all night long (our team is loaded with closers) and who will blanket any point guard in the league. It would almost not be fair when he and Herb were dueling it out with any other guard duo in the league.

I have said on numerous occasions that the Pelicans are filled with closers but lacks the marquee facilitator required to become elite. Simmons, IF HIS HEAD IS STRAIGHT could provide that needed skill. Regarding his shooting in particular, do you deny that he's the 50% + shooter I claim? Not bad for a guard...any guard, huh?

Nonetheless, on this team, his scoring wouldn't be needed as much as his playmaking ability. If scoring was what I really wanted from him, I'd look elsewhere.

Further (and you are not going to like this at all), who on the Pelicans roster can claim, AT PRESENT, the kind of resume that Ben Simmons has currently?

Finally, ML, I believe that both Luke Kennard and Duncan Robinson are better shooters than Ben Simmons. Of the three, who's the better basketball player?

[Algiersraised]

I’m top of that he slows down Penetration in the paint solidify our defensive rotation we could be top 5 offense and defensive will make Alvarado even tougher to deal with having three possible all nba defenders . Also 4 players that can easily give you twenty Jonas Zion Brandon and cj sets us up to beat a golden state a 610 elite defender is hard to find

[As I See It]

I’m top of that he slows down Penetration in the paint solidify our defensive rotation we could be top 5 offense and defensive will make Alvarado even tougher to deal with having three possible all nba defenders . Also 4 players that can easily give you twenty Jonas Zion Brandon and cj sets us up to beat a golden state a 610 elite defender is hard to find

I totally agree!! The minute he steps on the court, our defense improves by a minimum of 33%.

In the Phoenix series recently completed, I seriously doubt that Paul would have averaged the obscene fourth quarter numbers if he had a Ben Simmons on him. Or better yet, perhaps if Simmons was pitted against Deandre' Ayton from the opening tip, it would be the Pelicans playing Dallas right now instead of Phoenix.

........and that's before we even consider the 'GREAT' Zion Williamson.

[ml wave]

I have stated throughout this diatribe with you that there is more to Simmons' game then the REAL numbers I cited.

Again:



I have said on numerous occasions that the Pelicans are filled with closers but lacks the marquee facilitator required to become elite. Simmons, IF HIS HEAD IS STRAIGHT could provide that needed skill. Regarding his shooting in particular, do you deny that he the 50% + shooter I claim? Not bad for a guard...any guard, huh?

Nonetheless, on this team, his scoring wouldn't be needed as much as his playmaking ability. If scoring was what I really wanted from him, I'd look elsewhere.

Further (and you are not going to like this at all), who on the Pelicans roster can claim, AT PRESENT, the kind of resume that Ben Simmons has currently?

Finally, ML, I believe that both Luke Kennard and Duncan Robinson are better shooters than Ben Simmons. Of the three, who's the better basketball player?

I don't know why I continue to engage in this pointlessness...we're not going to trade for Simmons, Brooklyn would never want the kind of trash y'all are suggesting we trade and he's a horrible fit on our court, in our locker room, and on our salary cap. That said...

Do I deny that he's a 50%+ shooter? No, he is. But to say that under the guise of presenting his shooting in a positive light is bizarre. For those that have never watched him play or have been living under a rock for the last x years, the reason he's a 50%+ shooter is that he basically only shoots in the paint (and when last seen in a game, not even then). Not bad for a guard you say? Ehhhh, not not bad I'd reply.


For this Pelicans team, 10 out of 10 times I'd rather have Kennard or Robinson over Simmons. If you're just asking generically who's better, I'd say that availability is the best ability and still go with Kennard/Robinson. If Simmons comes back and plays, then I'd be open to reevaluating. AT PRESENT your boy was last seen setting NBA records for worst free throw %, was too scared to shoot the ball, then took a year off just cuz and is now coming off of back surgery...I want no part of that current resume.

[As I See It]

I don't know why I continue to engage in this pointlessness...we're not going to trade for Simmons, Brooklyn would never want the kind of trash y'all are suggesting we trade and he's a horrible fit on our court, in our locker room, and on our salary cap. That said...

Do I deny that he's a 50%+ shooter? No, he is. But to say that under the guise of presenting his shooting in a positive light is bizarre. For those that have never watched him play or have been living under a rock for the last x years, the reason he's a 50%+ shooter is that he basically only shoots in the paint (and when last seen in a game, not even then). Not bad for a guard you say? Ehhhh, not not bad I'd reply.


For this Pelicans team, 10 out of 10 times I'd rather have Kennard or Robinson over Simmons. If you're just asking generically who's better, I'd say that availability is the best ability and still go with Kennard/Robinson. If Simmons comes back and plays, then I'd be open to reevaluating. AT PRESENT your boy was last seen setting NBA records for worst free throw %, was too scared to shoot the ball, then took a year off just cuz and is now coming off of back surgery...I want no part of that current resume.

1. "I don't know why I continue to engage in this pointlessness"
Reply: Did you happen to notice the title of this thread? For those of us who did, it says:
" 2021 - 2022 Tank thread/ NBA draft thread/Trade ideas"

I think I am only presenting an idea to improve the Pelicans. If you aren't tolerant of another's IDEA that's on you...not me.

2. "For this Pelicans team, 10 out of 10 times I'd rather have Kennard or Robinson over Simmons"
Reply: This kind of say it all. It speaks to your basketball knowledge.

3. "I'd say that availability is the best ability"
You have strong reservations about giving Zion a Max Contract, too, huh?

PS: By the way, referring to a grown black man as a 'boy' is not politically correct.

[Knight Solaire]

1. You know exactly what he meant, people here would engage with you more frequently if you didn't strawman so aggressively

2. Simmons has incredible potential, which I doubt he will ever reach. It's not a stretch to think that simmons would tank the chemistry and undo all the good vibes they've built this season. Zion has made more 3's in a single game than simmons has his entire career, we don't need to add a max guy that can't shoot to our payroll

3. Simmons has missed 2 full nba seasons and played less than 60 games in 2 others

4. He's not a PG. He's a power forward that passes well and can run the break. Ingram, Zion, and CJ are all better than Simmons at navigating a pick and roll effectively
Simmons is closer to Lonzo than Lebron, and he's not worth the headache

[As I See It]

1. You know exactly what he meant, people here would engage with you more frequently if you didn't strawman so aggressively

2. Simmons has incredible potential, which I doubt he will ever reach. It's not a stretch to think that simmons would tank the chemistry and undo all the good vibes they've built this season. Zion has made more 3's in a single game than simmons has his entire career, we don't need to add a max guy that can't shoot to our payroll

3. Simmons has missed 2 full nba seasons and played less than 60 games in 2 others

4. He's not a PG. He's a power forward that passes well and can run the break. Ingram, Zion, and CJ are all better than Simmons at navigating a pick and roll effectively
Simmons is closer to Lonzo than Lebron, and he's not worth the headache

1. "You know exactly what he meant"
Reply: Of course I do; I can read AND COMPREHEND!!!

2 "It's not a stretch to think that simmons would tank the chemistry and undo all the good vibes they've built this season"
Reply: You are entitled to your supposition; I. mine. I do agree with you that he has incredible potential.

3. "Simmons has missed 2 full nba seasons and played less than 60 games in 2 others"
Reply: And despite this he's led his team to the playoffs three times and garnered league recognition.

4. "He's not a PG"
Reply: You might check your facts. Actually, he's closer to Point Guard, Magic Johnson, than Lonzo in that he can (and does) play all five court positions.

[Algiersraised]

Zion handle is kinda sloppy b.I can handle the pick and roll but he’s a scorer you are just being difficult and stubborn or ignorant Ben is like a big rondo he has handle size and a consistent driver to the paint to say Luke kennard or Duncan Robinson a better fit is a lie they can shoot but can’t do nothing but camp at the 3 cannot set picks don’t attack the rack and horrid on defense which is the last thing this team need bad defense weak athleticism we had jj I’m cool on them one dimensional players . You have to go above to win championship. I’m cool with not getting him but that player coming from the draft needs to be a real rim protector or real point guard who can throw alley oops and properly distribute to ball in a half court , we can’t play freestyle all the time Brandon go score cj go score Zion go score we have to be able to get easy buckets without having to say wow what an incredible shot by b.i

[As I See It]

Zion handle is kinda sloppy b.I can handle the pick and roll but he’s a scorer you are just being difficult and stubborn or ignorant Ben is like a big rondo he has handle size and a consistent driver to the paint to say Luke kennard or Duncan Robinson a better fit is a lie they can shoot but can’t do nothing but camp at the 3 cannot set picks don’t attack the rack and horrid on defense which is the last thing this team need bad defense weak athleticism we had jj I’m cool on them one dimensional players . You have to go above to win championship. I’m cool with not getting him but that player coming from the draft needs to be a real rim protector or real point guard who can throw alley oops and properly distribute to ball in a half court , we can’t play freestyle all the time Brandon go score cj go score Zion go score we have to be able to get easy buckets without having to say wow what an incredible shot by b.i

Pretty much how I see it.

I know there will be some who will disagree with me simply for the sport of it, but what the heck. In the Phoenix series, CJ had to work his butt off to just be bad offensively (this is not a knock on him; he was asked to do something he hasn't done in his nine-year career: SCORE AND STIR THE DRINK). And, I won't even bother commenting on his defensive play.

The Pelicans need a lead guard to facilitate the offense. They have a plethora of scorers, but no "EXPERIENCED" facilitators. 'Point Zion' or 'Point by Committee' or whatever you want to call it, coupled with our defense, might get us to the playoffs, but it will be one and done every year until we address the team's biggest need...a facilitator who can play defense.

PS: I don't think everyone understands how great (a word I don't use often) BI played against Phoenix. Imagine, how much more effective he could have been if he didn't have to create his own shot every time up the court. The man was literally beaten up in all six games.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Zion handle is kinda sloppy b.I can handle the pick and roll but he’s a scorer you are just being difficult and stubborn or ignorant Ben is like a big rondo he has handle size and a consistent driver to the paint to say Luke kennard or Duncan Robinson a better fit is a lie they can shoot but can’t do nothing but camp at the 3 cannot set picks don’t attack the rack and horrid on defense which is the last thing this team need bad defense weak athleticism we had jj I’m cool on them one dimensional players . You have to go above to win championship. I’m cool with not getting him but that player coming from the draft needs to be a real rim protector or real point guard who can throw alley oops and properly distribute to ball in a half court , we can’t play freestyle all the time Brandon go score cj go score Zion go score we have to be able to get easy buckets without having to say wow what an incredible shot by b.i

You also don't want to be paying a guy 30M+ who won't be on the court in the last 5 minutes of the game.
The guy can't shoot and they will make him earn it on the FT line.

[Algiersraised]

That kinda is a solution he can be the smart one to inbound the ball safely , when Brandon got here he was barely 60 percent lonzo as well he’s 24 and may just need a good support system like Zion

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

What about Temple, Graham and 2 futures 2nd's for Duncan Robinson?

[PELICANSFAN]

What about Temple, Graham and 2 futures 2nd's for Duncan Robinson?

Would he be worth the cap hits in the future. The Pels need to be careful with long term contracts as CJ, BI and soon Zion will be making over $30 million a year. They will likely have to be cognizant of the luxury tax.

[ml wave]

1. "I don't know why I continue to engage in this pointlessness"
Reply: Did you happen to notice the title of this thread? For those of us who did, it says:
" 2021 - 2022 Tank thread/ NBA draft thread/Trade ideas"

I think I am only presenting an idea to improve the Pelicans. If you aren't tolerant of another's IDEA that's on you...not me.

2. "For this Pelicans team, 10 out of 10 times I'd rather have Kennard or Robinson over Simmons"
Reply: This kind of say it all. It speaks to your basketball knowledge.

3. "I'd say that availability is the best ability"
You have strong reservations about giving Zion a Max Contract, too, huh?

PS: By the way, referring to a grown black man as a 'boy' is not politically correct.

My bad. You got me. Mad at myself that it took me a couple days, but I'll do better next time. This was next level trolling, all I can do is tip my cap and move on. Congrats!

[As I See It]

It may be a different player, but the article mirrors my belief:

https://clutchpoints.com/mike-conley...-jazz-veteran/

[MichaelMcNamara]

Fans have a trend. In the off-season, they want as many sure things and vets as possible to make the roster look as good as it can on paper. Then, come Jan and February they tell “Why aren’t we playing the young guys??!!”

How about we skip the first step and not advocate for more vets who will need minutes and instead get more developmental minutes to the young guys?

Just a thought

[Rheem654]

Good point. You going to be releasing your post-lottery mock draft on here or on Twitter?

[MichaelMcNamara]

I don’t think I have a twitter any more but I can post it now for the Pels

If they jump into top 3, I will predict Jabari. If they don’t, I will predict Mathurin

That simple IMO. The only curveball for me would be if they get 4 and Jabari is gone. I don’t think they LOVE Ivey.

[As I See It]

Fans have a trend. In the off-season, they want as many sure things and vets as possible to make the roster look as good as it can on paper. Then, come Jan and February they tell “Why aren’t we playing the young guys??!!”

How about we skip the first step and not advocate for more vets who will need minutes and instead get more developmental minutes to the young guys?

Just a thought

Unless KL13 proves me wrong, I don't think there is a starting caliber lead guard on this team (CJ is a scorer...always had been; he's not the answer). Until the Pelican Guard Conundrum is settled, this team will be little more than a 'one-and-done' post season participant.

When we look back for a reason for the Pelican four game sweep of Portland in 2018, most will point to the 27+ average of Jrue Holiday or the offensive support of Nikola Mirotic as the team's third spoke of the Davis/Holiday/Mirotic triumvirate, as to the reasons why. I see that series differently. I believe that we succeeded in that series because of the 13+ Assists Rajon Rondo averaged in that series. Taking the ball out of Holiday's hands made him more efficient offensively.

Fast forward to today....

CJ weaknesses as a lead guard were on full display in the Phoenix series. This is not to knock McCollum as he has never been asked to be the lead guard in his nine-year career. Also, count me as one who has no confidence in the 'Point Zion' foolishness (we don't even know how many games he can play in an NBA season) or Point Guard by committee. We have a litany of scorers but no one to get them the ball.

Note: I could have spoken about how weak our guards are defensively as a group (apologies to Herb), but I didn't.

[MichaelMcNamara]

This team will never have a “lead guard” as long as BI and Zion are on the roster. Heck, as long as we be of them is on the roster, let alone two

I will flip it and work backwards. Go count all the guys you consider “lead guards” in the league. Then, go see how many of them have 2, let alone 3, high usage iso studs on the roster.

This team doesn’t need nor does it want a lead guard. The ideal would be someone like prime Jazz Ingles, not another short guard who can’t switch onto 3 or more positions. Get the lead guard want out of your head

[RUFshreve]

I don’t think I have a twitter any more but I can post it now for the Pels

If they jump into top 3, I will predict Jabari. If they don’t, I will predict Mathurin

That simple IMO. The only curveball for me would be if they get 4 and Jabari is gone. I don’t think they LOVE Ivey.

What if Pels landed the #2 pick and Jabari went 1st, who do you think the FO would favor between Chet and Paolo?

[MichaelMcNamara]

What if Pels landed the #2 pick and Jabari went 1st, who do you think the FO would favor between Chet and Paolo?

I would bet on Paolo, just because they are so over 'unique bodies' and injury concerns, devoting resources to that, etc. But I would bet on them working hard to swap with #1 and then looking at trade down options in that unique situation. Like, if OKC got 3 or 4 and you could get that plus 14, plus make them take Graham.

[wuggie]

Between Ingram, Zion and McCollum I think we have enough playmaking from players who would have the ball.

[Algiersraised]

None of those players have had 12 assist in a game it’s nice freestyle basketball but every championship team has a player that can consistently set the table and give you atleast 10 Brandon is about 6 cj is about 5 Zion is about assist a game that’s not enough in my belief basketball is about strategy a great defensive team will make you take difficult midrange jumpers all game and we got people that can hit those but our team would be better if Brandon and cj was taking open shots and Zion had someone who can throw accurate lobs and actually get him the ball efficiently when he posted up in half court

[MichaelMcNamara]

Who was that guy on Milwaukee? On 2019 Toronto? On any of the Golden State title teams?

History says the exact opposite. The teams with the lead guard don’t win. The teams with multiple 5-6 assist guys do