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Thread: 2021 NBA FINALS THREAD! Bucks vs Suns!

  1. #101
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    Giannis won them that game

    Major carry job

  2. #102
    unreal game from giannis considering the knee

  3. #103
    Giannis didn’t have to go run to a super team either

  4. #104
    Jrue did it the right way. He didn?t ********** his way out of here like his old teammate and Griffin helped him out.

  5. #105
    Glad CP “never seen a set of plums he wouldn’t grab” 3 not win it.

    Congrats Jrue!
    If you Jimmer it, they will come.

  6. #106
    CP3 to the Lakers. Just make it official.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by AtlPelsFan View Post
    Giannis didn’t have to go run to a super team either
    Giannis' postgame comments about superteams made me so happy. I'm so glad there's a superstar in the NBA who is willing to talk like this.

    Cade Cunningham/Usman Garuba/Jaden Springer/Moses Moody/Corey Kispert endorser.

    Eye test people: analytics people watch more basketball than you do.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Giannis' postgame comments about superteams made me so happy. I'm so glad there's a superstar in the NBA who is willing to talk like this.

    Much respect to Giannis.

  9. #109
    Someone needs to show that to Zion

  10. #110
    Side note, Giannis' resume at age 26 is unquestionable. He's not even 27 until December.

    - Finals MVP and NBA Champion
    - 2x MVP (back to back)
    - Defensive Player of the Year
    - 5x All Star
    - 5x All NBA (3x first team)
    - 4x All Defensive team

    And he seems to be a really nice guy who built success with the team that drafted him and doesn't like the idea of running to a superteam.

    If he retired today, he'd be a first ballot hall of famer, jersey retired, top 5 international player of all time (arguably top 3, depending on if you count Duncan as international), and I think you could make an argument for him being top 25 all time already.

    I'd be surprised if he didn't win another MVP at some point, he's young enough that another Finals MVP isn't unrealistic, and he'll probably add another 5 First Team All-NBAs and another handful of All Defensive awards to that list as well by the time he's done. All time great. What a player.

  11. #111
    People crapping on the Bucks for their path to the title probably crapped on the Lakers last year, the Raptors the year before, and the Warriors the year before that.

    The fact of the matter is that every NBA title winning team catches breaks along the way (injuries, suspensions, fouls, etc). To deny that, and just crap on the Bucks for their title (or the others mentioned) just goes to show who doesn’t follow sports in general.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by UNO Gracias View Post
    People crapping on the Bucks for their path to the title probably crapped on the Lakers last year, the Raptors the year before, and the Warriors the year before that.

    The fact of the matter is that every NBA title winning team catches breaks along the way (injuries, suspensions, fouls, etc). To deny that, and just crap on the Bucks for their title (or the others mentioned) just goes to show who doesn’t follow sports in general.
    It’s the fact a team in a smaller market won. These are the things that can happen here.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by UNO Gracias View Post
    People crapping on the Bucks for their path to the title probably crapped on the Lakers last year, the Raptors the year before, and the Warriors the year before that.

    The fact of the matter is that every NBA title winning team catches breaks along the way (injuries, suspensions, fouls, etc). To deny that, and just crap on the Bucks for their title (or the others mentioned) just goes to show who doesn’t follow sports in general.
    100%

    Warriors first title they didn't play a single healthy starting PG, in any round of the playoffs. Raptors played a thoroughly hobbled Warriors. Lakers beat the Heat with a clearly injured Bam and Dragic, and I think Butler got injured during the series too.

    Any title run you can choose has examples of where the winning team has gotten a stroke of luck here, an opponent injury there. It's the reality of the game. That's why no championship has an asterisk.

  14. #114
    Didn't read this whole thread so it's probably been said, but it was interesting seeing shades of what is possible with Zion and BI in Giannis and Middleton.

  15. #115
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal4Pels View Post
    Didn't read this whole thread so it's probably been said, but it was interesting seeing shades of what is possible with Zion and BI in Giannis and Middleton.
    Zion and Ingram's defensive play, alone, precludes this from being a realistic comparison. Never mind the truth of the statement, of course, now I'm a troll. LOL
    Disclaimer: I would never denigrate or defame Zion Williamson as a man or as a basketball player; he will go down as an NBA great and perhaps a Top 10+ player of all time. Any inference derived from any of my posts to the contrary is your mischaracterization of my words, or a sign of insecurity on your part (perhaps both).

    Respectfully,

    AISI

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal4Pels View Post
    Didn't read this whole thread so it's probably been said, but it was interesting seeing shades of what is possible with Zion and BI in Giannis and Middleton.
    There's a huge issue missing from that comparison.

    Zion, while I don't think is nearly as big a defensive problem as some people seem to believe, is unlikely to ever read Giannis level on D for a number of reasons.

    And Ingram is a nightmare on defense, whereas Middleton is one of the best 2 way wings in the league.

  17. #117
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    There's a huge issue missing from that comparison.

    Zion, while I don't think is nearly as big a defensive problem as some people seem to believe, is unlikely to ever read Giannis level on D for a number of reasons.

    And Ingram is a nightmare on defense, whereas Middleton is one of the best 2 way wings in the league.
    Oh, my...a rare consensus!!! Are you a troll, too? LOL

  18. #118
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    I didn’t pay attention to Giannis until he grew into his body. Has he always been a plus defender?

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Eman5805 View Post
    I didn’t pay attention to Giannis until he grew into his body. Has he always been a plus defender?
    I think every year but his Rookie year. And his rookie year he was more of a net zero than a negative

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    I think every year but his Rookie year. And his rookie year he was more of a net zero than a negative
    Nah, I think he was pretty poor his rookie year. At basically everything - but that was to be expected given his frame and his rawness.

    He wasn't very good on D his second year either, though he was improving at a rapid rate.

    By his third year, yeah he was damn good on defense and has only gotten better.

    I think the biggest advantage Giannis has on defense - and a huge part of why I think Zion will never quite reach that level, even with significant growth - is just the frame. He's 6'11 with a 7'3 wingspan and he has that weird combo of broad shoulders and narrow hips that really helps him absorb a ton of contact while still being very mobile.

    Zion, on the other hand, is 6'6 with a 6'10 wingspan and is built like a tank. I think he's shown enough flashes (particularly in college but increasingly in the NBA) to think that he can be a solid defender, even perhaps a good one during his prime years, but I very much doubt he ever glimpses the DPOY level that Giannis is at.

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Nah, I think he was pretty poor his rookie year. At basically everything - but that was to be expected given his frame and his rawness.

    He wasn't very good on D his second year either, though he was improving at a rapid rate.

    By his third year, yeah he was damn good on defense and has only gotten better.

    I think the biggest advantage Giannis has on defense - and a huge part of why I think Zion will never quite reach that level, even with significant growth - is just the frame. He's 6'11 with a 7'3 wingspan and he has that weird combo of broad shoulders and narrow hips that really helps him absorb a ton of contact while still being very mobile.

    Zion, on the other hand, is 6'6 with a 6'10 wingspan and is built like a tank. I think he's shown enough flashes (particularly in college but increasingly in the NBA) to think that he can be a solid defender, even perhaps a good one during his prime years, but I very much doubt he ever glimpses the DPOY level that Giannis is at.
    I was only thinking more along his peers in his draft class. I can't really remember a real defensive juggernaut coming into the league as a rookie anymore. Everyone gets burned as expected, but I remember thinking he had some fundamental qualities that jump out to me once he grows into his frame. He was like 190 lbs on draft day. So, he really couldn't do much and he was so raw too. Every time I watch him. He just keeps getting better and better. It's been a wild ride. One of the most enjoyable franchise player coming of age ascension in quite some time.

    As you said, the resume speaks for itself and he quietly built it up for a while jealous fans took every chance to trash or tear him down for every bit of adversity he faced.


    Like it's his fault for having to carry Eric Bledsoe or something.

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    I was only thinking more along his peers in his draft class. I can't really remember a real defensive juggernaut coming into the league as a rookie anymore. Everyone gets burned as expected, but I remember thinking he had some fundamental qualities that jump out to me once he grows into his frame. He was like 190 lbs on draft day. So, he really couldn't do much and he was so raw too. Every time I watch him. He just keeps getting better and better. It's been a wild ride. One of the most enjoyable franchise player coming of age ascension in quite some time.

    As you said, the resume speaks for itself and he quietly built it up for a while jealous fans took every chance to trash or tear him down for every bit of adversity he faced.


    Like it's his fault for having to carry Eric Bledsoe or something.
    Yeah it's pretty incredible. His growth curve has been spectacular, I honestly can't remember anyone else coming into the league so raw and becoming so incredibly dominant so quickly. People like to point to Luka being a top 10 player in his second year and sure, that's true, but he was already a league MVP playing pro overseas before coming to the NBA: Giannis was not that

    I think the last player to be immediately incredible on defense was Thybulle. As a rookie he had a 3.5%STL and 3.1%BLK and was a +3.1 DBPM. There has literally never been a rookie log STL and BLK% that high before. At least, none that played any significant time: Thybulle played over 1200 minutes that season.

    If you remove the rookie tag and just look for people who have logged that level of defensive event creation in a season regardless of age or experience, you get the following:

    - Gerald Wallace (x1)
    - Kawhi Leonard (x1)
    - Matisse Thybulle (x2)

    That's the entire list, ever - again, with at least 1000 minutes played.

    Thybulle has been staggeringly good on defense immediately. His problem is that his offense is so awkward that lineups that feature him have to be very carefully calculated.

  23. #123
    That's just cause we haven't given Didi the minutes yet.

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Yeah it's pretty incredible. His growth curve has been spectacular, I honestly can't remember anyone else coming into the league so raw and becoming so incredibly dominant so quickly. People like to point to Luka being a top 10 player in his second year and sure, that's true, but he was already a league MVP playing pro overseas before coming to the NBA: Giannis was not that

    I think the last player to be immediately incredible on defense was Thybulle. As a rookie he had a 3.5%STL and 3.1%BLK and was a +3.1 DBPM. There has literally never been a rookie log STL and BLK% that high before. At least, none that played any significant time: Thybulle played over 1200 minutes that season.

    If you remove the rookie tag and just look for people who have logged that level of defensive event creation in a season regardless of age or experience, you get the following:

    - Gerald Wallace (x1)
    - Kawhi Leonard (x1)
    - Matisse Thybulle (x2)

    That's the entire list, ever - again, with at least 1000 minutes played.

    Thybulle has been staggeringly good on defense immediately. His problem is that his offense is so awkward that lineups that feature him have to be very carefully calculated.
    That’s really cool man. Love these historical stat analysis. You always on the fly with some awesome stats.

  25. #125
    Just realized that PJ Tucker won a ring too and was a starter.

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