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Thread: The Alternative to Trading the Pick for A Vet

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    Admittedly I’m a few beers in but I found myself daydreaming about a franchise reset to go with new coach. Reports are that several teams with top picks would trade out for a veteran All-Star player. What if we leaned into this draft instead of bailing out?

    For example, would you trade Ingram to the Cavs for a deal centered on the #3 pick + Kevin Love? Say you came out of that deal with Suggs and then took Kispert at 10? So your top 10 next year are:

    PG: Suggs/Lewis
    SG: NAW/Hart
    SF: Kispert/Marshall
    PF: Zion/Love
    C: Adams/Hayes

    In this scenario I’m assuming you sign and trade Lonzo, unloading Bled in the deal or in a separate deal. I know the CW is you have to placate an impatient Zion with win-now vets, but I’d be willing to risk that if I got two foundational guys on rookie deals that fit with him. I guess I can’t shake the feeling that something is fundamentally bent in the Zion/Ingram pairing….but again I’ve had a few.
    I was thinking something like this. If Green falls to 4, trading BI for 4+Anunoby+Hood(waive team option). Draft Mitchell at 10.

    Edit: If Green is gone. I would also go for Suggs. BI for 4+Anounoby+Hood. Draft Kisper at 10
    Last edited by HoustonPelicans; 06-23-2021 at 10:31 AM.

  2. #27
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaxmc1023 View Post
    He was shorter than expected without his shoes on...

    So we should only take him if he can guarantee that he will play the majority of his games with shoes on...
    Which is how the prospects are measured. So does that not making him shorter than expected with shoes on? Come on.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    I was thinking something like this. If Green falls to 4, trading BI for 4+Anunoby+Hood(waive team option). Draft Mitchell at 10.

    Edit: If Green is gone. I would also go for Suggs. BI for 4+Anounoby+Hood. Draft Kisper at 10
    You are welcome to dream and play mock GM. But if the goal is to be realistic and try to predict what he WILL do, dont think they are gonna get even younger
    @mcnamara247

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    You are welcome to dream and play mock GM. But if the goal is to be realistic and try to predict what he WILL do, dont think they are gonna get even younger
    Zion is 21 not 25. If you get players in here that reflects his views on winning and working hard, I think he will be happy no matter their age. We can get veterans in free agency. In my opinion due to Zions age we still have to have a long term view. We can't just go get 30 year old superstars who will only last through Zions 2nd contract and hinder us cap wise while they're here.

    Edit: Also listening to Griff, he hated that approach when Lebron forced his hand to do it. I think Griff will still operate with a longterm view and not just sacrifice picks for a couple good seasons.
    Last edited by HoustonPelicans; 06-23-2021 at 11:43 AM.

  5. #30
    Trade for Malcolm Brogdon?

  6. #31
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    You are welcome to dream and play mock GM. But if the goal is to be realistic and try to predict what he WILL do, dont think they are gonna get even younger
    Unless they are competing for "NBA Farm Team of the Century" and not chasing NBA Championships.

    Draft a Hall of Famer, develop a Hall of Famer, then watch a Hall of Famer blossom elsewhere. We are experts in this field.
    Disclaimer: I would never denigrate or defame Zion Williamson as a man or as a basketball player; he will go down as an NBA great and perhaps a Top 10+ player of all time. Any inference derived from any of my posts to the contrary is your mischaracterization of my words, or a sign of insecurity on your part (perhaps both).

    Respectfully,

    AISI

  7. #32
    I'm not going to make moves based on the timeline of a 21 y/o afraid he will be the first guy in history to take the QO. Just identify where the draft has value as according to your scouts and make moves accordingly. If that's at 10 draft at 10. If you don't like anybody trade out.

    I mean the best case scenario in trading for a vet is that they satisfy the short term, but they could be a rental or overpaid and old by the time Zion is actually in a position to demand a trade, and even the best vet available isn't going to make the pelicans a contender right away.

    Future picks are great but I'm not a believer that the right trade will ever materialize. But that's still better than going for it now because you should really only be making that kind of move when you're one piece away.

  8. #33
    The Franchise DarkHornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    Zion is 21 not 25. If you get players in here that reflects his views on winning and working hard, I think he will be happy no matter their age. We can get veterans in free agency. In my opinion due to Zions age we still have to have a long term view. We can't just go get 30 year old superstars who will only last through Zions 2nd contract and hinder us cap wise while they're here.

    Edit: Also listening to Griff, he hated that approach when Lebron forced his hand to do it. I think Griff will still operate with a longterm view and not just sacrifice picks for a couple good seasons.
    If we don't start winning soon, Zion won't be happy no matter who is around him. I agree with Mac that we can't afford to get even younger right now, unless we are looking at the post-Zion rebuild.

  9. #34
    If Griffin is smart and he's using the pick, he'll take the best player even if he is a 19 year old. We can still win with/despite that and it's best for the team long-term. We'll see.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkHornet View Post
    If we don't start winning soon, Zion won't be happy no matter who is around him. I agree with Mac that we can't afford to get even younger right now, unless we are looking at the post-Zion rebuild.
    Again.....to be clear, that isnt MY stance. I am just being realistic from Griffs perspective. What I would do is not the same as what Griff would do. Clearly.

  11. #36
    The Franchise DarkHornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Again.....to be clear, that isnt MY stance. I am just being realistic from Griffs perspective. What I would do is not the same as what Griff would do. Clearly.
    Fair. What would be your stance? Do you see a future where we keep Zion even if we use our draft pick and go young?

    Edit: Saw your post in the other thread. Understand now.
    Last edited by DarkHornet; 06-23-2021 at 02:31 PM.

  12. #37
    Hollygrove 4 Life DroopyDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    I'm sticking with Davion Mitchell at 10. He'll be 23 when the season starts. He's ready to contribute to winning now. I would look to trade future picks for a vet. Like maybe Adams or Bledsoe + picks for Turner
    Think he'll be on the board at 10? I hope for the same (if we were to use the pick), but I doubt he'll be available at 10. I've seen a few mocks and nobody has him lasting until 10 (not that mocks are the end-all).

  13. #38
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    Unless we move the pick for a shooter, give me Kispert or Mitchell at 10. Either one would be a great pick at that position.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Again.....to be clear, that isnt MY stance. I am just being realistic from Griffs perspective. What I would do is not the same as what Griff would do. Clearly.
    I think you're right in the cold light of day. Griff seems to be entering the same conundrum Dell faced, where he starts managing more for his job than the longterm good of the team. Once before Griffin had to bolt together a roster to appease LeBron and the timeline associated with him on the Cavs. He said he hated it and would grow the Pels organically--even though he won a championship in Cleveland doing it the other way.

    Sometimes I think landing a huge super star is actually bad luck for a small market team. As soon as it happens, gravity begins to shift away from your team and toward the player, distorting all your decision making. And the sharks start to circle. It would be nice to be like Utah, Memphis, Phoenix or San Antonio and build your roster outside the glare and the constant yammering about whether the TEAM is meeting the player's expectations, instead of the other way around. I'm sick of the sound of the ticking clock...

  15. #40
    Name me the top draft pick that turned down a max extention with the team that drafted him. Zion isn't going anywhere until after his 2nd contract. What is the rush? Take the best player available @10. Griff put all these expectations on the team which was dumb on his part.

    I get MM is just saying what he feels the front office will do, but trading the pick for a vet IMO is a bad decision.
    Last edited by da ThRONe; 06-24-2021 at 05:15 AM.

  16. #41
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    I'm still not all the way in on not finding a gem from the guys before us. The goal next year is really be good enough to make the playoffs. See how far we can get. I would still like us to add a guy with skills to the mix and see what happens.

    There's enough flexibility available to do the later option. Do a little of both. Take someone and add to the future war chest.

  17. #42
    If anything use the "warchest" to trade up in this up coming draft. Honestly I think our so called "warchest" is vastly overrated and is better to sell now. I think there's some interesting prospects that could be had in the 4-7 range. A guy like Suggs, Kumbinga or Barnes could be the consensus best player in the draft when it's all settled.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Name me the top draft pick that turned down a max extention with the team that drafted him. Zion isn't going anywhere until after his 2nd contract. What is the rush? Take the best player available @10. Griff put all these expectations on the team which was dumb on his part.

    I get MM is just saying what he feels the front office will do, but trading the pick for a vet IMO is a bad decision.
    History is a good indicator, but by no mean definitive when projecting into the future. Somebody will do it and if you were to try to predict who would be that first person, you would probably pick:

    - a #1 overall pick (because the gap between the QO and the first year of the extension wouldnt be very big)
    - A massively marketable player (because he could make up the gap in endorsements)
    - A guy who was drafted by a small market
    - A guy who experienced little to no success the first 2 to 3 years

    That would be the guy most likely to be the first. Luka wont be the first because he made two All NBA teams already, so they can offer him the Rose Rule extension this summer. He also wasnt the #1 pick and isnt massively marketable in the US. We wont be able to offer Zion that extension next offseason. I would still say there is a very good chance Zion is here beyond his 1st contract, but to act as if it is a definite would be poor management. And if you do mess it up and he is the first, imagine the stain that leaves on you and your franchise. Even if there is only a 5-10 percent chance, you gotta do EVERYTHING possible to prevent it because the consequences would be irreversable and could cause the city a franchise.

  19. #44
    Unless the deal is actually good (and not for an overaged vet), we have to just go with the pick. The media is really trying to bait Griffin to do something foolish here (and he kind of deserves it for all his talks of win now the past two years). There are shooters at that 10th spot. We can trade back a little to move Bledsoe. There are options. We don’t have to listen to all of the ESPN fear mongering and make a panic move. Play ball on our timeline- not theirs.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    If anything use the "warchest" to trade up in this up coming draft. Honestly I think our so called "warchest" is vastly overrated and is better to sell now. I think there's some interesting prospects that could be had in the 4-7 range. A guy like Suggs, Kumbinga or Barnes could be the consensus best player in the draft when it's all settled.
    Probably true regarding the warchest being overrated… 1st round picks almost always lose value the moment you select a player with it. The value seems to be more in the “what if” part of it.

    Also look at OKC’s supposed massive warchest. Already significantly reduced this year. Had a chance for #1 and 5 while only ending up with #6. This will also massively impact SGA and his happiness with a non competitive team.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    Unless the deal is actually good (and not for an overaged vet), we have to just go with the pick. The media is really trying to bait Griffin to do something foolish here (and he kind of deserves it for all his talks of win now the past two years). There are shooters at that 10th spot. We can trade back a little to move Bledsoe. There are options. We don’t have to listen to all of the ESPN fear mongering and make a panic move. Play ball on our timeline- not theirs.
    Nobody is trying to do anything. Stuff.leaks out of that place easily and people are just saying what they are hearing....same as SVG, same as Zions family, same as Charles Lee

    And Griff has been on the phone for weeks, setting parameters for possible deals with this pick and other picks.

    Nobody is trying to trick him. Or persuade him to do anything. He is already well on that path himself

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    History is a good indicator, but by no mean definitive when projecting into the future. Somebody will do it and if you were to try to predict who would be that first person, you would probably pick:

    - a #1 overall pick (because the gap between the QO and the first year of the extension wouldnt be very big)
    - A massively marketable player (because he could make up the gap in endorsements)
    - A guy who was drafted by a small market
    - A guy who experienced little to no success the first 2 to 3 years

    That would be the guy most likely to be the first. Luka wont be the first because he made two All NBA teams already, so they can offer him the Rose Rule extension this summer. He also wasnt the #1 pick and isnt massively marketable in the US. We wont be able to offer Zion that extension next offseason. I would still say there is a very good chance Zion is here beyond his 1st contract, but to act as if it is a definite would be poor management. And if you do mess it up and he is the first, imagine the stain that leaves on you and your franchise. Even if there is only a 5-10 percent chance, you gotta do EVERYTHING possible to prevent it because the consequences would be irreversable and could cause the city a franchise.
    If Zion takes a significant step to superstardom next season we make the playoffs without any major acqusitions. If he doesn't then he may not be the player we all think he'll be. Either way making moves out of a sense of desperation seems like a recipe for long term failure.

    I get how monumentally awful it would be if Zion takes the QO and leaves after his rookie deal. However as a poker player I understand you can't be afaird to go bust. You have to play the percentages. I just don't see any player worth it that will be available for the 10th pick even combine with all our other assets. If we could get a KAT or Beal that's clearly understandable. But trading the picks for a Myles Turner type players seems like a bad idea.

  23. #48
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    If Zion takes a significant step to superstardom next season we make the playoffs without any major acqusitions. If he doesn't then he may not be the player we all think he'll be. Either way making moves out of a sense of desperation seems like a recipe for long term failure.
    See Dell Dumps,

  24. #49
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    Is it possible to get to 3 to get green? S&T Lonzo and Hart plus 10? If not I?m going the trade down route

    Players I?m targeting is Zaire Williams, Springer, Tre Murray, and Bones Hyland. I like the trade down with OKC to 16 and 18 but I?d take a step further. Trade 16 to Knicks for 21 and future top 20 protected pick then trade 18 to Rockets for 24 and another top 20 protected pick. At 21 & 24 take whatever players I have listed that could be left.

    Trade 35, 40, and 2- 2nds next year to Clippers or Nets. Grab an above player or Greg Brown. Of those 3 pick I?d tell them one will make the team this year, the other 2 will either go overseas or 2-way contracts. The only thing I?m not sure of is if a first counts as a roster spot if they are on a 2-way.
    Last edited by tdcreator; 06-24-2021 at 10:56 PM.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by tdcreator View Post
    Is it possible to get to 3 to get green? S&T Lonzo and Hart plus 10? If not I’m going the trade down route

    Players I’m targeting is Zaire Williams, Springer, Tre Murray, and Bones Hyland. I like the trade down with OKC to 16 and 18 but I’d take a step further. Trade 16 to Knicks for 21 and future top 20 protected pick then trade 18 to Rockets for 24 for another top 20 protected pick. At 21 & 24 take whatever players I have listed that could be left.

    Trade 35, 40, and 2- 2nds next year to Clippers or Nets. Grab an above player or Greg Brown. Of those 3 pick I’d tell them one will make the team this year, the other 2 will either go overseas or 2-way contracts. The only thing I’m not sure of is if a first counts as a roster spot if they are on a 2-way.
    Is it possible to get to 3? Yes, but not with just 10 and Lonzo

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