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Thread: 2021 NBA PLAYOFFS THREAD

  1. #626
    More

    https://valleyofthesuns.com/2020/11/...-playoff-team/

    Phoenix Suns rebuild: James Jones started by gutting the house

    Jones started this project in October 2018
    Last edited by 13 - 3; 06-09-2021 at 11:26 PM.

  2. #627

  3. #628
    https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/...e-phoenix-suns

    Becomes full time GM in 2019 and in a shocking move at the time, he fired Igor Kokoskov and hired Monty Williams

    - In the 2019 draft he trades TJ Warren to the Pacers for cash. That move made no sense at the time. He also traded down from 6 to 11 to snag Dario Saric and draft Cam Johnson. A pick that was talked about as a huge reach. He then also traded a late 2020 pick for Baynes and the 24th pick while also signing Ricky Rubio in free agency.

    Let's stop here for a second. On the surface, it's not really clear what the plan was. TJ Warren was one of their best players, Cam Johnson pick was questionable. But you started to see the light at the end of the tunnel. The Suns probably make the playoffs last year if not for Ayton's suspension. They then go 8-0 in the bubble and look like they are onto something.

    OK, let's get back into it.

    - In November 2020, the big shoe dropped. The Chris Paul trade. After proving he was very much not washed up, the Suns made it happen. Remember those Kelly Oubre and Barnes trades? Or that sort of confusing Rubio signing? Well, they don't land CP3 without them. The package of Oubre Jr, Rubio, Ty Jerome (from the Baynes deal), and some filler is what brought Chris Paul to the desert.

    - Enter free agency. Anyone could have had Jae Crowder. He had just made a Finals and is always seemingly on good teams. His 3/29M deal isn't outrageous by any means.

    You add it all up and let's see where we're at. The Suns have the 2nd best record in the NBA. Cam Johnson looks like a hit at 11 and is perfect in his role as a spot up shooter with size. DeAndre Ayton looks like a hit as the #1 pick. Mikal Bridges is the perfect 3 and D wing for today's NBA. Devin Booker obviously is flourishing. Monty Williams was the perfect hire.

    The Suns are not a super team. They don't have the benefit of being in New York City or Miami where the best of the best decide to team up together just to be in that location. They have a cheap as ******** owner. This team was built "the right way" you could say. Smart drafting, guts to make trades that might seem crazy at the time but give you the assets you need to pounce when the right star becomes available. It's not like the Suns are this big market team that attracts all the best free agents. ********, maybe they will now, but that has not been the case during this era.

    In a two year span to go from 19-63 to 51-21 in a weird condensed season in which you look like a legit title contender is about as close to a flawless rebuild as you can get. Suddenly Devin Booker is more than just a good stats on a bad team guy, but when you give him legit talent around him looks like every bit the franchise cornerstone player you need him to be. James Jones has nailed pretty much every step of this process. Not only that, but they play a fun ****** style of basketball.

  4. #629
    Back Door Man RUFshreve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Who said Ja vs Cade? It was Ja vs Zion. And yes, Ja at least shoots them. And least has games, like the play in vs GS where he makes them and helps win the game as a result. I know he will at least be Westbrook or Jimmy from deep - where he at least takes them and can hit some and who knows, maybe gets better. Right now, Zion is more Ben Simmons, and he might evolve into much more but how do I know what he will be? Why I said Zion is the better talent but I can see the argument for Ja being easier to build around. I dont know how Cade got dragged into this
    Yeah I guess I did pull the Cade comparison out of nowhere, I know this thread has been comparing Ja vs Zion. I was referencing a comment you made in another thread, where someone asked how strong the top of this draft class is and you said you would take Ja over everyone in the top four, including Cade. I don't know how you can talk about the need for shooting and being able to create your own shot, but then say you'd prefer Ja over Cade, Green or Suggs. All three are better shooters than Ja. All three are better "3 level scorers" which is what your claiming we need.

    As for Zion, I think its more likely he develops a respectable mid-range game, over the three point range. I think the Westbrook comp is fair.

  5. #630
    Ja to me is talent PLUS top tier intangibles. You guys see a 30% shooter (for now). I have seen, since Murray St, a guy who is an absolute dog, competitor, leader, etc. And after that, he is an ultra athlete with a nice foundation of a floater and growing mid range.

    Whatever his weaknesses are, I have no doubt he will fix them. And even if he doesnt, his value will be in his leadership and mentality. He plays harder and with more tenacity than any player I have seen outside of Westbrook, but he plays with a much higher IQ. He is the exact type of player this whole board loves and wants - and if he played here I have no doubt every poster would want him over anyone in this draft and at least some would argue him over Zion, if not most
    @mcnamara247

  6. #631
    I can see the argument for Ja. He does more things at a high to elite level than Zion. Zion is just otherworldly dominant with that one move (in the regular season)

  7. #632
    If Im to give James Jones credit for one thing, its that between he and Monty, they've done a great job building a team identity.

    The warren trade was bad value and his drafting has been B- at best. But they've done a good job building a modern 4 out team with clearly defined roles. Paul, Payne, Cam Johnson and especially Crowder have been nice pickups.

    That being said, no way Paul or Crowder would have picked playing here so its a moot point when those are the 2 most important player moves James Jones has made.

  8. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    I can see the argument for Ja. He does more things at a high to elite level than Zion. Zion is just otherworldly dominant with that one move (in the regular season)
    This!!
    Disclaimer: I would never denigrate or defame Zion Williamson as a man or as a basketball player; he will go down as an NBA great and perhaps a Top 10+ player of all time. Any inference derived from any of my posts to the contrary is your mischaracterization of my words, or a sign of insecurity on your part (perhaps both).

    Respectfully,

    AISI

  9. #634
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelifan View Post
    If Im to give James Jones credit for one thing, its that between he and Monty, they've done a great job building a team identity.

    The warren trade was bad value and his drafting has been B- at best. But they've done a good job building a modern 4 out team with clearly defined roles. Paul, Payne, Cam Johnson and especially Crowder have been nice pickups.

    That being said, no way Paul or Crowder would have picked playing here so its a moot point when those are the 2 most important player moves James Jones has made.
    What? Everyone wants to play for SVG. SVG is the only coach that sees “PointZion”.

  10. #635
    Sources close to the Celtics revealed Ainge sought to trade Walker, and Jrue Holiday was the target. Holiday ended up with the Milwaukee Bucks, who are now in the second round of the playoffs.

    A source close to Walker said he was hurt by Boston's efforts to trade him, which created a rift in the Walker-Ainge relationship. Walker has a great relationship with his teammates and looked forward to being a veteran mentor to Tatum and Brown, but the same can't be said about Walker and the front office. He no longer feels wanted.


    Ainge really deserved to be fired. He probably try to low ball us to hell

  11. #636
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Sources close to the Celtics revealed Ainge sought to trade Walker, and Jrue Holiday was the target. Holiday ended up with the Milwaukee Bucks, who are now in the second round of the playoffs.

    A source close to Walker said he was hurt by Boston's efforts to trade him, which created a rift in the Walker-Ainge relationship. Walker has a great relationship with his teammates and looked forward to being a veteran mentor to Tatum and Brown, but the same can't be said about Walker and the front office. He no longer feels wanted.


    Ainge really deserved to be fired. He probably try to low ball us to hell
    Maybe. But the Bucks did give up A LOT in exchange, and looking at the Bucks cap situation it could be NBA title or die which could be catastrophic for them. I don’t think most teams would have matched that offer unless a title was a sure thing to be fair to Ainge.

  12. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post

    Ainge really deserved to be fired. He probably try to low ball us to hell
    He was reluctant to move Brown for Kawhi Leonard and PG13, he probably offered his leftovers after dinner for Jrue
    Cade Cunningham/Usman Garuba/Scottie Barnes/Moses Moody/Corey Kispert endorser.

    Eye test people: analytics people watch more basketball than you do.

  13. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    He was reluctant to move Brown for Kawhi Leonard and PG13, he probably offered his leftovers after dinner for Jrue
    He could of had Myles Turner for basically for free to give up Hayward and that wasn't good enough.. He could dump Kemba and got Jrue Holiday for 3 1st round pick amd a couple of swaps.

    Ainge lucky they let him resign with some dignity.

    They where a complete non factor for James Harden much like AD, Khawi, and etc... Just sad.

  14. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Sources close to the Celtics revealed Ainge sought to trade Walker, and Jrue Holiday was the target. Holiday ended up with the Milwaukee Bucks, who are now in the second round of the playoffs.

    A source close to Walker said he was hurt by Boston's efforts to trade him, which created a rift in the Walker-Ainge relationship. Walker has a great relationship with his teammates and looked forward to being a veteran mentor to Tatum and Brown, but the same can't be said about Walker and the front office. He no longer feels wanted.


    Ainge really deserved to be fired. He probably try to low ball us to hell
    Agree there . He was throwing some low ball offers. Would not give us Brown.

  15. #640
    The offer was Kemba and picks. Griff talked to them but demanded the Celtics went and got a pick high enough to get Patrick Williams. And Celtics couldnt even get up to 6, offering 4 firsts - so thats where it fell dead and he took Milwaukee's deal before the draft because Boston got no traction on moving up

  16. #641
    Well if Boston is blowing it up they would consider this

    https://pelicandebrief.com/2021/06/1...trade-celtics/

  17. #642
    They arent "blowing it up"

    As I have been saying for months - I dont think anybody "blows it up" this offseason. Even if a GM wants to, the owners of those teams wont. Griff has all these assets to throw at the big trade in the one summer where I dont think there will be any big guys available - and that scares me. Here is hoping he chooses patience and waits until Feb or next summer, when those guys will start to be available

  18. #643
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    They arent "blowing it up"

    As I have been saying for months - I dont think anybody "blows it up" this offseason. Even if a GM wants to, the owners of those teams wont. Griff has all these assets to throw at the big trade in the one summer where I dont think there will be any big guys available - and that scares me. Here is hoping he chooses patience and waits until Feb or next summer, when those guys will start to be available
    I sure hope he does not use his assets on a "B" player in a "panic" move. What he gave up in the Adams trade last year has me worried that he will throw a bunch of assets to either an overpriced or over the hill veteran.

  19. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    I sure hope he does not use his assets on a "B" player in a "panic" move. What he gave up in the Adams trade last year has me worried that he will throw a bunch of assets to either an overpriced or over the hill veteran.
    That has always been my fear with this offseason. Definitely a sellers market out there, but I think the market evens out by Janualy/February. Heck, its such a sellers market that I think you can get assets for Lonzo or even Hart. Why my favorite Lonzo sign and trade is to the Bulls for Aminu and their 2025 pick. Because now you have added a pick to the war chest AND an expiring to use in February.

  20. #645
    Jrue has absolutely no confidence in finishing with his right hand.

    He inexplicably shot that right sided layup with his left hand for a right handed guy.

    It's amazing how much more he trusts his left hand

  21. #646
    I'm happy for Jrue. Will be rooting for him for the rest of playoffs and career.
    #FREEQUAIL

  22. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    That has always been my fear with this offseason. Definitely a sellers market out there, but I think the market evens out by Janualy/February. Heck, its such a sellers market that I think you can get assets for Lonzo or even Hart. Why my favorite Lonzo sign and trade is to the Bulls for Aminu and their 2025 pick. Because now you have added a pick to the war chest AND an expiring to use in February.
    Bulls didnt give up a pick at the deadline for Lonzo so I dont see why that would be any different now.

  23. #648
    Paul George overrated? Seems like a perfect person for the Pelicans

  24. #649
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    This!!
    But with all due respect, cats in here are always wrong.

    No way in a million years is Ja better than Zion.

    Cats always talking intangibles. That?s a college/pre NBA scouting thing. Those things at the core do not stick to the wall. I?ve seen ?lazy? players become top 5. I?ve seen hard working hard nosers become your lifetime pass around role player.

    The main Achilles on this board that I have noticed is cats talk in the moment. Can never truly access based on future. Looking at 20-22 year olds and making judgements and then get exposed once they turn the corner.

    If you are ?Thising!? on some Ja vs Zion when Zions 20 years old doing what he?s doing, it tells me everything I need to know.

  25. #650
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelifan View Post
    Bulls didnt give up a pick at the deadline for Lonzo so I dont see why that would be any different now.
    The hope would be that:

    A) The move they made didnt vault them into the playoffs as it expected them too

    B) They are so desperate to re-sign LaVine that they dont get cheap with a pick this time around and risk losing him over it

    Make no mistake, if the Magic had kept Vuc, Lonzo is a Bull right now and they give up a pick. They hoped the Vic acquisition would be enough and then they could marginally upgrade in the offseason. But now they know they gotta be more aggressive. Them jumping into the top 4 would probably kill any hopes of them trading for Lonzo, but if they lose their pick (which happens in 80 percent of universes), I expect them to come after Lonzo hard, and Lonzo wants to go there. Plus, they are giving up half a pick to dump Aminu too. Thats part of the equation

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