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Thread: 2021 NBA PLAYOFFS THREAD

  1. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by Funcrusher View Post
    I know you guys think Zion will add a floater/pull-up game in the future, and given how good his touch is I can certainly see it, but I legitimately think we're all missing the forest for the trees by focusing on that. To me, while he's in his athletic prime, he doesn't need a jumper, and shouldn't focus on getting a jumper at the expense of the rest of his game. Even if it's just been the regular season, he's already been unstoppable as a scorer in a way guys like Giannis simply haven't, even (for the most part) at the end of games, where he statistically has been fairly clutch, contrary to the narrative someone like Mac would like to uphold
    I think that you have to be practical.

    The reality is that while Zion is scoring at historic rates already, that will not always be the case unless he diversifies his game somewhat. One possibility is that, as he ages, his athleticism will dwindle somewhat (this is a certainty, it's happened to every other human who has ever lived ) but also there's a possibility that as he plays more games the league figures out ways to approach him defensively that help mitigate his advantages. I don't think that this is coming soon, nor do I think it will be very successful, but it's a possibility you have to prepare for as a player and as a team that you can't simply ignore.

    So it's important that Zion adds to his game. I think he will: he already showed signs of adding things to his game in the relatively small number of games he's already played, and generally speaking 21 year olds do add things to their game. Those additions don't have to be in the form of shooting, it can be diversifying the layup package, adding a floater, improving as a passer - all of these things make guarding Zion more difficult and don't require him taking shots from new locations, really. But you should never say no to adding shooting, if it looks reasonable.

    And really, I think what while your concern is valid (why make him do less effective things now, at the expense of the better shots, just for the sake of versatility?) I don't think that's what people are suggesting. Nobody wants him to replace the effective, at-rim attempts with weird alternatives. But on the rare nights that those shots aren't falling, it can only help Zion to have a few other options available to him. He doesn't need to suddenly take 8 threes a night, but it would be good for him to have the option of a floater if such a shot is better, or a spin over the opposite shoulder if the defender is leaning hard to his usual side. That's all.
    Cade Cunningham/Usman Garuba/Jaden Springer/Moses Moody/Corey Kispert endorser.

    Eye test people: analytics people watch more basketball than you do.

  2. #677
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    Already we see (or at least sense) that referees have a proclivity to overlook obvious calls against Zion in the regular season. What will happen to Zion in postseason competition (should that ever occur) when the game officials swallow their whistles and allow hand to hand combat in the paint ad nauseum. It would be foolhardy for Zion to not add to his game, if not for this reason only.

    A one trick pony will always eventually be neutralized. It's the history of the game.
    Disclaimer: I would never denigrate or defame Zion Williamson as a man or as a basketball player; he will go down as an NBA great and perhaps a Top 10+ player of all time. Any inference derived from any of my posts to the contrary is your mischaracterization of my words, or a sign of insecurity on your part (perhaps both).

    Respectfully,

    AISI

  3. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Funcrusher View Post
    Mac's weird fascination with nitpicking Zion at every turn while alternately propping up Ja as much as he can is assuredly one of the weirdest aspects of Mac's persona. Zion's not perfect (no player is) but he's better than Ja and that's pretty much all that matters in this comparison. I have no problem with scrutinizing our star players, but how many times are you going to ask essentially the same question (would you guys still take Zion over Ja?, how would Zion/Ja do in Memphi/NO?, what aspects of the game is Zion better at than Ja?, etc.) before you finally just say you'd rather have Ja?

    And for a so called "expert," who applies an "analytical, unbiased lens" to his team, 99% of the reasoning behind your contrarian stances hinge on emotional narratives rather any empirical, tangible evidence. The implication that Shaq wouldn't dominate in this era because he played in a different one is wrong, the implication that Zion is a liability on defense is wrong, the implication that you can't win titles with a player like Zion is wrong on so many levels (not because Zion is good or bad enough, but rather their is nothing about his archetype as a player that should leave any one to believe that it would be impossible to win a ring with him as the hypothetical best player). Honestly dude, what are you providing beyond the occasional inside scoop that I can't just get from Steven A. Smith or Kendrick Perikins?
    I only appear to "nitpick" Zion because nobody on here talks about him honestly. I actually think he is quite amazing and have even said many times he is more talented than Ja. BUT, he is an outlier - in both great ways and very concerning ways when it comes to roster construction. And I feel like nobody wants to acknowledge the latter, and simply hide behind "he is only (insert age)" or "He has only played (insert games)" - implying that he will improve all his weaknesses and we need only wait

    Again, if he goes from taking almost no 2nd and 3rd level shots in his first two years to being proficient in those areas, he will be an outlier. And if he doesnt, then recent history says he cant be a #1 on a true contender. But when I bring that up and want to have detailed conversation about it, I am nitpicking and should just assume he will get better with age.

    I have zero doubt that if Zion was on any other team in the league, we could have these conversations. I have seen great, but flawed players discussed here quite a bit. Luka is great but freezes guys out some times. Trae is amazing but is a liability on defense. AD fantastic when healthy, but injury prone. Tatum is amazing but has poor shot selection at times. Its amazing how we can "nitpick" every other guy, except one who plays for the Pelicans
    @mcnamara247

  4. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I have zero doubt that if Zion was on any other team in the league, we could have these conversations. I have seen great, but flawed players discussed here quite a bit. Luka is great but freezes guys out some times. Trae is amazing but is a liability on defense. AD fantastic when healthy, but injury prone. Tatum is amazing but has poor shot selection at times. Its amazing how we can "nitpick" every other guy, except one who plays for the Pelicans
    I don't think that's accurate to the discussions that have taken place surrounding Zion on here or elsewhere whatsoever.

    In fact, to some extent, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way. There are *multiple* people on here who are insistent that Point Zion is a complete gimmick that no team should ever use (despite it producing some of the league's best offense in even sub-optimal lineups) and that he's a complete disaster on defense despite him improving throughout the year until - by the end of the season - he was pretty much a neutral defender.

    People seem very willing - perhaps because it's completely undeniable and you'd have to be blind to miss it - to admit that he's an overwhelming scorer in terms of both volume and efficiency, for any player of any age or position. Beyond that, the discussion tilts pretty heavily towards the negative. Not a day goes by that some media pundit tells us that - actually - they would have taken Ja first, he's better. Not a day goes by that someone discusses ''Zion and Brandon's defense'' as if the two are on the same level of badness. Again, the claims of Point Zion being a gimmick (to the point that some people use the fact that SVG even uses it as evidence that SVG should never have been hired lmao) are a regular occurrence.

    The idea that this board view Zion in terms of glowing omnipotence with zero discussion of his flaws is beyond a joke, and indicative of either complete disingenuous argument o just fundamental unawareness of what the discussion actually looks like.

  5. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I only appear to "nitpick" Zion because nobody on here talks about him honestly. I actually think he is quite amazing and have even said many times he is more talented than Ja. BUT, he is an outlier - in both great ways and very concerning ways when it comes to roster construction. And I feel like nobody wants to acknowledge the latter, and simply hide behind "he is only (insert age)" or "He has only played (insert games)" - implying that he will improve all his weaknesses and we need only wait

    Again, if he goes from taking almost no 2nd and 3rd level shots in his first two years to being proficient in those areas, he will be an outlier. And if he doesnt, then recent history says he cant be a #1 on a true contender. But when I bring that up and want to have detailed conversation about it, I am nitpicking and should just assume he will get better with age.

    I have zero doubt that if Zion was on any other team in the league, we could have these conversations. I have seen great, but flawed players discussed here quite a bit. Luka is great but freezes guys out some times. Trae is amazing but is a liability on defense. AD fantastic when healthy, but injury prone. Tatum is amazing but has poor shot selection at times. Its amazing how we can "nitpick" every other guy, except one who plays for the Pelicans
    Mac, c'mon man. Everyone here (including myself) nitpicks Zion all the time. How many threads did we have this year hinging on every up and down performance Zion had on one end of the floor or another? How many threads with 10 + pages dedicated to Zion being "the worst defensive PF in basketball." How many threads with posters questioning his impact on winning? He gets scrutinized here and everywhere else on the internet, sometimes fairly and, often, unfairly. I'm not doing this with you. Especially since you seem to agree that Zion is a better talent than Ja, all this talk of questioning ideal roster construction that comes after that is just window dressing. That's where I'm gonna leave it.

  6. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I don't think that's accurate to the discussions that have taken place surrounding Zion on here or elsewhere whatsoever.

    In fact, to some extent, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way. There are *multiple* people on here who are insistent that Point Zion is a complete gimmick that no team should ever use (despite it producing some of the league's best offense in even sub-optimal lineups) and that he's a complete disaster on defense despite him improving throughout the year until - by the end of the season - he was pretty much a neutral defender.

    People seem very willing - perhaps because it's completely undeniable and you'd have to be blind to miss it - to admit that he's an overwhelming scorer in terms of both volume and efficiency, for any player of any age or position. Beyond that, the discussion tilts pretty heavily towards the negative. Not a day goes by that some media pundit tells us that - actually - they would have taken Ja first, he's better. Not a day goes by that someone discusses ''Zion and Brandon's defense'' as if the two are on the same level of badness. Again, the claims of Point Zion being a gimmick (to the point that some people use the fact that SVG even uses it as evidence that SVG should never have been hired lmao) are a regular occurrence.

    The idea that this board view Zion in terms of glowing omnipotence with zero discussion of his flaws is beyond a joke, and indicative of either complete disingenuous argument o just fundamental unawareness of what the discussion actually looks like.
    Beat me to it. Maybe on Pelicans twitter fans view Zion less critically, but here (right or wrong) the magnifying lens is on him after literally every win or loss (and mostly losses).

  7. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post

    In fact, to some extent, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way. There are *multiple* people on here who are insistent that Point Zion is a complete gimmick that no team should ever use (despite it producing some of the league's best offense in even sub-optimal lineups) and that he's a complete disaster on defense despite him improving throughout the year until - by the end of the season - he was pretty much a neutral defender.
    By the end of the season, if he was a 'neutral defender', as you suggest, it was quite a trick because he was shelved three weeks earlier.

  8. #683
    So, let me lay out EXACTLY what I think of Zion, including what I think he will most likely grow into, and tell me where I am too harsh, relative to reality:

    - Best interior scorer in the league off the dribble and face up post ups
    - Above average vision
    - Great interior passer and above average same side passer. Below average cross court
    - Should be a 72-78% FT shooter, career. Would be surprised if he gets over that but I'd also be surprised if he dips back down a la Giannis or Westbrook after seeming to improve
    - In final few minutes, can score in isolation if given space. If you set a screen for him, he will get trapped and turn it over more often than he will make something good happen
    - Long term, the hope is he can become Westbrook or Jimmy late. Not a big threat to pull up from 3, but could drain a 16 footer or just take it to the hole/get to the line
    - On defense, the lateral movement, relative to other perimeter defenders is horrific. An F. Maybe it gets up to a C, but I cant ever see him staying in front of typical 1's-3's. Slower 3's and power 3's, maybe. Ideally, he guards stretch 4's who cant put the ball on the deck after a hard close and when put in pick and rolls, he drops instead of hedging or trapping. I believe he will always be a liability on that end, similar to say Carmelo.
    - The real tipping point is defensive rebounding. If he is gonna be a below avg defender, he could at least make a contribution on that end by rebounding and then pushing the ball. My guess is that he never makes it a priority, and tops out around 5.5-6 def rebs a game. People gave him excuses because Adams and Hart got boards, but when they went up, his numbers didnt really change. Despite all the athletic talent in the world and a body made for boxing out, he will rebound more like a good wing than a good big.
    - All of this makes a fantastic player. A guy who probably averages 30-9-6 a couple times in his career. But how do you build around him in 2021? You have to have rim protection - its a must, and he wont give it to you. But most rim protectors will also clog the lane on the other end. Now, if he exceeds my expectations on levels 2 and 3, and becomes more like Kawhi off the bounce, then that is totally fine. But if not, you are gonna have a hard time getting buckets in the 2020s in late rounds. AD and Lebron's Lakers didnt have great spacing, but they won because that team had tremendous D because of those guys. Zion doesnt bring that, and I dont think ever will. And when I look at title winning teams, their best guys can usually give you clutch buckets on one end and lock down on the other. And if they cant, they give you tremendous spacing because of their shooting (Curry). Outside of scoring in the paint, what will Zion do at a TOP TIER level? Not good. Not above average. Top tier, elite? To me, he will either have to become an elite defender, an elite rebounder, an elite 2nd and 3rd level scorer, or an elite playmaker for others. If one of those 4 things doesnt happen, he cant be a #1 on a true contender.

    Now......what of that isnt fair?

  9. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    So, let me lay out EXACTLY what I think of Zion, including what I think he will most likely grow into, and tell me where I am too harsh, relative to reality:

    - Best interior scorer in the league off the dribble and face up post ups
    - Above average vision
    - Great interior passer and above average same side passer. Below average cross court
    - Should be a 72-78% FT shooter, career. Would be surprised if he gets over that but I'd also be surprised if he dips back down a la Giannis or Westbrook after seeming to improve
    - In final few minutes, can score in isolation if given space. If you set a screen for him, he will get trapped and turn it over more often than he will make something good happen
    - Long term, the hope is he can become Westbrook or Jimmy late. Not a big threat to pull up from 3, but could drain a 16 footer or just take it to the hole/get to the line
    - On defense, the lateral movement, relative to other perimeter defenders is horrific. An F. Maybe it gets up to a C, but I cant ever see him staying in front of typical 1's-3's. Slower 3's and power 3's, maybe. Ideally, he guards stretch 4's who cant put the ball on the deck after a hard close and when put in pick and rolls, he drops instead of hedging or trapping. I believe he will always be a liability on that end, similar to say Carmelo.
    - The real tipping point is defensive rebounding. If he is gonna be a below avg defender, he could at least make a contribution on that end by rebounding and then pushing the ball. My guess is that he never makes it a priority, and tops out around 5.5-6 def rebs a game. People gave him excuses because Adams and Hart got boards, but when they went up, his numbers didnt really change. Despite all the athletic talent in the world and a body made for boxing out, he will rebound more like a good wing than a good big.
    - All of this makes a fantastic player. A guy who probably averages 30-9-6 a couple times in his career. But how do you build around him in 2021? You have to have rim protection - its a must, and he wont give it to you. But most rim protectors will also clog the lane on the other end. Now, if he exceeds my expectations on levels 2 and 3, and becomes more like Kawhi off the bounce, then that is totally fine. But if not, you are gonna have a hard time getting buckets in the 2020s in late rounds. AD and Lebron's Lakers didnt have great spacing, but they won because that team had tremendous D because of those guys. Zion doesnt bring that, and I dont think ever will. And when I look at title winning teams, their best guys can usually give you clutch buckets on one end and lock down on the other. And if they cant, they give you tremendous spacing because of their shooting (Curry). Outside of scoring in the paint, what will Zion do at a TOP TIER level? Not good. Not above average. Top tier, elite? To me, he will either have to become an elite defender, an elite rebounder, an elite 2nd and 3rd level scorer, or an elite playmaker for others. If one of those 4 things doesnt happen, he cant be a #1 on a true contender.

    Now......what of that isnt fair?
    MAC, you prognostication is spot on. I'll only add that developing 'Point Zion' should be the last of his (or the team's) concerns.

  10. #685
    Let's get this straight, Zion's and Ingram's defense, taken as a whole, are on the same level of badness. There is no defensive statistic that captures this properly because most of them do not take in the needed defensive stats. BI is the MUCH better on-ball defender while Zion has lots of work to do there. BI, in iso defense, ranks in the 65th percentile league wide.

    And he did that at least having to spend some possessions having to guard elite scorers at his position, while still being too thin and not strong enough. Example 3:47 here.



    So while they both need to improve on that end, it's not the same things they need to improve on. The best chance of improvement for Zion is going to be off-ball because I'm just not sure his body will ever allow the necessary lateral abilities needed on-ball. You can still be a plus defender off-ball, however.

  11. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    MAC, you prognostication is spot on. I'll only add that developing 'Point Zion' should be the last of his (or the team's) concerns.
    'Point Zion' is a phrase people use with no meaning behind it. They cant even answer what it means when you press them on it.

    He is a big guy who creates, which people see as a novelty so they give it a cool moniker, but its really not that unique. Giannis does the same thing. Lebron does it....better. Even Randle did it a lot this year. Draymond runs "point" a lot. I can go on and on.

    Very few teams have a sole creator any more. Dallas and Atlanta are really the only ones and Atlanta got better as Bogdonovic started running more sets. The question is: How much should Zion be the primary on ball creator for a set vs being off the ball and getting him the ball on the move? Personally, I'd like his usage to be similar to Jimmy. On the ball plenty but also playing off the ball, ready to catch a pass off of someone else's penetration. Anybody wanting him to be Luka or CP3 or Trae, etc is wrong, but I dont think many want that. They just like saying the stupid moniker

  12. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    'Point Zion' is a phrase people use with no meaning behind it. They cant even answer what it means when you press them on it.

    He is a big guy who creates, which people see as a novelty so they give it a cool moniker, but its really not that unique. Giannis does the same thing. Lebron does it....better. Even Randle did it a lot this year. Draymond runs "point" a lot. I can go on and on.

    Very few teams have a sole creator any more. Dallas and Atlanta are really the only ones and Atlanta got better as Bogdonovic started running more sets. The question is: How much should Zion be the primary on ball creator for a set vs being off the ball and getting him the ball on the move? Personally, I'd like his usage to be similar to Jimmy. On the ball plenty but also playing off the ball, ready to catch a pass off of someone else's penetration. Anybody wanting him to be Luka or CP3 or Trae, etc is wrong, but I dont think many want that. They just like saying the stupid moniker
    There are too many other things that need to be worked out before 'Point Zion' can begin to flourish. As your prognostication points out:

    "Long term, the hope is he can become Westbrook or Jimmy late. Not a big threat to pull up from 3, but could drain a 16 footer or just take it to the hole/get to the line"

    ...of course the operative words are Long Term. There is so much that needs to develop in his game for before 'Point Zion' can even take shape.

  13. #688
    But what does "point Zion" mean? How can we say he should or should not develop that until we clarify what that is, specifically?

    Should he isolate and take guys off dribble? Of course. Should he be the ballhandler with a guard setting a screen and popping? Yep. Should he bring the ball up the court off a rebound? Yep. Should he run the majority of sets a la Luka? Nope.

    But again, I dont think anyone argues for that. So, before we say yes or no to "point Zion" - I need a clear definition of what that is, exactly.

  14. #689
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    So, let me lay out EXACTLY what I think of Zion, including what I think he will most likely grow into, and tell me where I am too harsh, relative to reality:

    - Best interior scorer in the league off the dribble and face up post ups
    - Above average vision
    - Great interior passer and above average same side passer. Below average cross court
    - Should be a 72-78% FT shooter, career. Would be surprised if he gets over that but I'd also be surprised if he dips back down a la Giannis or Westbrook after seeming to improve
    - In final few minutes, can score in isolation if given space. If you set a screen for him, he will get trapped and turn it over more often than he will make something good happen
    - Long term, the hope is he can become Westbrook or Jimmy late. Not a big threat to pull up from 3, but could drain a 16 footer or just take it to the hole/get to the line
    - On defense, the lateral movement, relative to other perimeter defenders is horrific. An F. Maybe it gets up to a C, but I cant ever see him staying in front of typical 1's-3's. Slower 3's and power 3's, maybe. Ideally, he guards stretch 4's who cant put the ball on the deck after a hard close and when put in pick and rolls, he drops instead of hedging or trapping. I believe he will always be a liability on that end, similar to say Carmelo.
    - The real tipping point is defensive rebounding. If he is gonna be a below avg defender, he could at least make a contribution on that end by rebounding and then pushing the ball. My guess is that he never makes it a priority, and tops out around 5.5-6 def rebs a game. People gave him excuses because Adams and Hart got boards, but when they went up, his numbers didnt really change. Despite all the athletic talent in the world and a body made for boxing out, he will rebound more like a good wing than a good big.
    - All of this makes a fantastic player. A guy who probably averages 30-9-6 a couple times in his career. But how do you build around him in 2021? You have to have rim protection - its a must, and he wont give it to you. But most rim protectors will also clog the lane on the other end. Now, if he exceeds my expectations on levels 2 and 3, and becomes more like Kawhi off the bounce, then that is totally fine. But if not, you are gonna have a hard time getting buckets in the 2020s in late rounds. AD and Lebron's Lakers didnt have great spacing, but they won because that team had tremendous D because of those guys. Zion doesnt bring that, and I dont think ever will. And when I look at title winning teams, their best guys can usually give you clutch buckets on one end and lock down on the other. And if they cant, they give you tremendous spacing because of their shooting (Curry). Outside of scoring in the paint, what will Zion do at a TOP TIER level? Not good. Not above average. Top tier, elite? To me, he will either have to become an elite defender, an elite rebounder, an elite 2nd and 3rd level scorer, or an elite playmaker for others. If one of those 4 things doesnt happen, he cant be a #1 on a true contender.

    Now......what of that isnt fair?
    Way off the mark on the lateral movement tbh. He's extremely laterally explosive offensively and even defensively what I've seen backs that up. This common misconception that he cannot move his feet is far from true and a case of not being able to properly identify what we pick up from the eye test. He's not historically been bad at moving his feet on an island, unless you're talking about against super quick guards and that remains true for a good 95% of the league. What he has been bad at, (going back to college) is changing direction consistently on the move and that, coupled with his bad footwork to this point, has made him a liability at times switching or hedging PNR, which is why he usually seems more comfortable playing in drop coverage. It's the same problem guys like LeBron, Shaq, and even Kawhi have (though LeBron and Kawhi to a much lesser extent), carrying that much mass makes it hard to change direction consistently and crisply when your tasked with doing anything but moving in a straight line. Hopefully Zion takes the initiative and improves his footwork, because that's certainly doable, but he's always going to have problems containing the quicker/shiftier players of the NBA. When it comes to sliding his feet in a straight line on the perimeter though, that's generally never been a problem.

    The rebounding stuff is just lol, no one in the year 2021 should be placing a player's impact on the boards based on his individual numbers. I shouldn't have to tell you why that's ridiculous, especially considering the fact that we AS A TEAM last year were elite rebounding the ball.

    And I think, just in general, people think that Zion has failed thus far to meet the defensive expectations he seemed to suggest in college. That isn't true. The strengths and weaknesses that he has now he's always had (great instincts, great tools, poor-to-average effort, bad fundamentals), it's merely that the weaknesses are more exacerbated in the pros than in college, particularly on a team without any real anchor and very few above average defensive players, period. He still IMO has a high defensive ceiling, whether he reaches that or not is anybody's guess, but I'm not particularly dissuaded by what I've seen thus far.
    Last edited by Funcrusher; 06-12-2021 at 03:39 PM.

  15. #690
    Okay, so Zion COULD rebound well, he just doesnt need to because we have plenty of rebounders? I disagree, but thats what makes the world go round

    And you think he will be a great defender. Give me a comp so I can understand exactly what level. In his prime, he defends similar to __________________

  16. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    2nd round going pretty expectedly, tbh.

    Denver has the best player in the series but with no Murray and poor shooting from MPJ combined with having to play someone like MPJ in a series against guys who can actually take advantage of bad defenders (CP3, Booker, for example) means that the Nuggets just don't have what it takes.

    Meanwhile, Budenholzer refuses to make even a single adjustment for what the Nets are bringing (fitting his long track record of being a Regular Season Coach Only) and their entire offense is unfit to attack where the Nets are weak.
    Well it should be also noted Nash ‘s assistant coach can also choke the big games. Harden not playing tonight. Let ‘s see what happens.

  17. #692
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    But what does "point Zion" mean? How can we say he should or should not develop that until we clarify what that is, specifically?

    Should he isolate and take guys off dribble? Of course. Should he be the ballhandler with a guard setting a screen and popping? Yep. Should he bring the ball up the court off a rebound? Yep. Should he run the majority of sets a la Luka? Nope.

    But again, I dont think anyone argues for that. So, before we say yes or no to "point Zion" - I need a clear definition of what that is, exactly.
    Ask David Griffin

  18. #693
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Okay, so Zion COULD rebound well, he just doesnt need to because we have plenty of rebounders? I disagree, but thats what makes the world go round

    And you think he will be a great defender. Give me a comp so I can understand exactly what level. In his prime, he defends similar to __________________
    Nah, Im saying Zion boxes out (crazy concept, I know) on an elite rebounding team, pretty sure the team generally had a higher rebound rate with him on the court than off too, so I'm not concerned about how many individual boards he grabs. If this were the year 1990 and I were new to basketball, yeah, maybe I would care more about that. Thankfully, it's not.

    If I had to come up with a comp for what I envision peak Zion can be defensively, it would probably just be a lesser version of Miami LeBron. Swiss army knife, free safety type of defensive player that's super active in the passing lanes and as a weakside rim protector. Can switch 2-5 and even guard some slower 1's at times. Basically the kind of role Zion played at Duke (a role that's obviously easier to play in college given the half court is smaller/less ground to cover on rotations).

  19. #694
    Well, we all hope you are right. But some of us disagree. And its not to be 'hot take' artists or contrarians. Our eyes just see it differently. And thats okay

  20. #695
    It will be kinda fun if the Jazz or the Suns win it all so the talking heads can all suck eggs.
    Even though I don't personally like the Jazz they seemed to barely get a mention all season.
    The suns are cool.
    Just another Kiwi basking in the reflected glory of Steven Adams....bask bask...

  21. #696
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    Kyrie is down and looks like he's in serious pain. Not good for Brooklyn. Injuries are the only thing possible of derailing their path to a ring. So far they're down 2 of their 3 stars in this series.

  22. #697
    Bucks getting the injury luck.

  23. #698
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Bucks getting the injury luck.
    Or D’Antoni and his boy Nash doing what they do best. Blowing it

  24. #699
    Jokic should be ejected. That was a wind up and caught Payne's face. That's what they said for Ingram early in the year. Consistency?

  25. #700
    Jokic is trash

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