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Thread: Pels Off season thread

  1. #1251
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    Don't confuse someone saying the name of a vague stat like wasted possessions and puzzling decisions as them actually giving a stat. Also, Dae used a ranking system as opposed to stats because the stats are pretty identical. Case in point, steals......Hart averaged 2.3, O'Neal 2.5, Melton 2.5, and Nance had 3.1 Anderson 1.2, and Sato .7. Not much difference between Hart, Melton, and O'Neal. But if he posts the actual stats, everyone would see there isn't much difference, so he instead throws out a ranking putting Hart in 4th because that looks worse.

    The most egregious stat sin is just pushing away the rebound stat. Like rebounds don't matter. "Other than the rebounding......"

    Well we're debating the 5th to 7th position. That's where you're talking about players who specialize in one or two things. They won't have a ton of points.....they will just have one or two great categories. That's kinda the whole point to the position.
    Where is this impression that Josh Hart is a good defender coming from? I've never thought he was particularly good, and even bad at times in certain matchups. He's strong, so he can guard some larger wings, but normal sized wings give him nightmares because he isn't laterally quick. Now, I think rebounding is a factor, an Hart obviously excels there; but if you're always going to play a center next to Zion, who cares?

    He's a bad offensive player in basically every aspect other than transition. If he could shoot the 3, that would obviously be a different story.

    He's an incredible hustle guy, sure, but those guys don't really have a place in playoff basketball. Is Hart really going to give you more than what Pat Connaughton gave the Bucks in that championship series?

    If you're bringing him back at on a 1 year deal for the MLE or something, sure whatever. If you're tying up long term money to him, particularly over 10 mil per year, I think you're making a tremendous mistake.

  2. #1252
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    Where is this impression that Josh Hart is a good defender coming from? I've never thought he was particularly good, and even bad at times in certain matchups. He's strong, so he can guard some larger wings, but normal sized wings give him nightmares because he isn't laterally quick. Now, I think rebounding is a factor, an Hart obviously excels there; but if you're always going to play a center next to Zion, who cares?

    He's a bad offensive player in basically every aspect other than transition. If he could shoot the 3, that would obviously be a different story.

    He's an incredible hustle guy, sure, but those guys don't really have a place in playoff basketball. Is Hart really going to give you more than what Pat Connaughton gave the Bucks in that championship series?

    If you're bringing him back at on a 1 year deal for the MLE or something, sure whatever. If you're tying up long term money to him, particularly over 10 mil per year, I think you're making a tremendous mistake.
    I disagree. I think hustle guys are the difference between a title and not. See Portis this year. Also Jrue. Every single possession counts in the finals.

  3. #1253
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    I disagree. I think hustle guys are the difference between a title and not. See Portis this year. Also Jrue. Every single possession counts in the finals.
    Portis and Jrue are more than hustle guys. Calling Jrue Holiday a hustle guy is criminal. Bobby Portis just shot 47% from 3 over the course of a full season.

    NAW is a hustle guy who also has a skillset that works outside of just hustle plays. If you want to invest in a hustle guy, invest in NAW

  4. #1254
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    Portis and Jrue are more than hustle guys. Calling Jrue Holiday a hustle guy is criminal. Bobby Portis just shot 47% from 3 over the course of a full season.

    NAW is a hustle guy who also has a skillset that works outside of just hustle plays. If you want to invest in a hustle guy, invest in NAW
    I wasn't insinuating Jrue was just a hustle guy, but the effect passionate guys have

  5. #1255
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    I wasn't insinuating Jrue was just a hustle guy, but the effect passionate guys have
    Yeah, I agree with this but the term ''hustle guy'' is usually one that gets applied to players who have a relatively lacklustre skillset but who ''earn'' minutes by just playing super hard. Zylan Cheatham was a hustle guy; using that term on someone like Jrue seems nuts even though I get what you mean.

    When Giannis was outworking everyone in Game 6 of the finals and blocking everything and rebounding like a beast, he was hustling hard. But he wasn't a ''hustle guy''.
    Yannick Nzosa/Ousmane Dieng/Jean Montero/Nikola Jovic/Paolo Banchero endorser

    Eye test people: analytics people watch more basketball than you do.

  6. #1256
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    I wasn't insinuating Jrue was just a hustle guy, but the effect passionate guys have
    Fair, and don't read what I'm not saying, I love hustle guys. I think they are super important, but I think they have to be able to do something else either offensively or defensively in order to make an impact in the playoffs. Caruso is a good defender for the Lakers. Portis is automatic from the corners for Milwaukee. Crowder can guard guys like Lebron in the playoffs for 20 minutes a night.

    I just don't think Hart really does anything outside of rebounding. I love him in those bench units with Kira-NAW-Hart-Zion-Hayes because those units need rebounding. In the playoffs, though, you aren't going with a 10 man rotation.

    My point is I would be looking for a hustle guy who fits better with Zion and BI, whether it be shooting or defensively. Bobby Portis, for example, would be perfect

  7. #1257
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    Fair, and don't read what I'm not saying, I love hustle guys. I think they are super important, but I think they have to be able to do something else either offensively or defensively in order to make an impact in the playoffs. Caruso is a good defender for the Lakers. Portis is automatic from the corners for Milwaukee. Crowder can guard guys like Lebron in the playoffs for 20 minutes a night.

    I just don't think Hart really does anything outside of rebounding. I love him in those bench units with Kira-NAW-Hart-Zion-Hayes because those units need rebounding. In the playoffs, though, you aren't going with a 10 man rotation.

    My point is I would be looking for a hustle guy who fits better with Zion and BI, whether it be shooting or defensively. Bobby Portis, for example, would be perfect
    For me, Hart wants the ball more than any guy on the floor. Whether this makes up for his flaws, I can't quantify. But I do love that side of him

  8. #1258
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    For me, Hart wants the ball more than any guy on the floor. Whether this makes up for his flaws, I can't quantify. But I do love that side of him
    If the plan is to start Hayes next season (2022-2023), I think Hart makes more sense. There's also something to be said for potentially losing Lonzo's rebounding. He was a very good rebounder for us, which may make Hart's skill more necessary

  9. #1259
    Hollygrove 4 Life DroopyDawg's Avatar
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  10. #1260
    You can’t teach motor, but as other guys have said we have guys like NAW and Naji that have shown those traits too (and Naji is making the freakin minimum) while NAW has shown the ability to run games here and there and be a big presence when needed. Hart has to improve somewhere on the offensive end so he isn’t a hindrance on the floor in those final minutes. Otherwise he isn’t worth sixth man money. He isn’t that great defensively to warrant a big deal like Iggy, etc.

  11. #1261
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    You can’t teach motor, but as other guys have said we have guys like NAW and Naji that have shown those traits too (and Naji is making the freakin minimum) while NAW has shown the ability to run games here and there and be a big presence when needed. Hart has to improve somewhere on the offensive end so he isn’t a hindrance on the floor in those final minutes. Otherwise he isn’t worth sixth man money. He isn’t that great defensively to warrant a big deal like Iggy, etc.
    Who are you referring to?

  12. #1262
    I also think Naji can be a better Hart at a fraction of the cost.

    Loved just about everything I've seen from that guy. And he's 3 inches taller

  13. #1263
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Who are you referring to?
    It’s about Hart.

  14. #1264
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    I also think Naji can be a better Hart at a fraction of the cost.

    Loved just about everything I've seen from that guy. And he's 3 inches taller
    Yea I think Naji could potentially be your Jae Crowder

  15. #1265
    I'm gonna buy a Naji jersey

  16. #1266
    I think I'd be happy with the following:

    Brogdon Hart Lewis
    NAW Springer Duarte
    Ingram Naji
    Zion Johnson JT Thor
    Jonas Jaxson Willy


    I could lose Hart and upgrade depth.

  17. #1267
    The good thing about this draft is I could see several steals popping up in the second round and we have plenty of those picks to fill out the squad for now if we strike out on FA. Very curious to see what our priority is with no. 17

  18. #1268
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    I think I'd be happy with the following:

    Brogdon Hart Lewis
    NAW Springer Duarte
    Ingram Naji
    Zion Johnson JT Thor
    Jonas Jaxson Willy


    I could lose Hart and upgrade depth.
    Swapped Ball and Hart for Springer, Duarte and Thor?

    Done

  19. #1269
    Hollygrove 4 Life DroopyDawg's Avatar
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    Still need at least 2 (more) wings that can shoot. Having JV helps to un-clog the lane for Zion, but when the defense collapses... who else on the roster besides BI can Zion kick it out to that you guys can feel confident that he'll make the shot?

    If we can get 2 young 3&D wings that would do wonders for our roster.

  20. #1270


    Not a surprise but just putting it here anyway

  21. #1271
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post


    Not a surprise but just putting it here anyway
    Utah is the most obvious candidate right? We can take either Ingles or Bojan into cap space.

  22. #1272
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    Utah is the most obvious candidate right? We can take either Ingles or Bojan into cap space.
    Yeah, can expand the Memphis trade by adding Utah and absorb a contract. Ingles would leave us more flexibility.

  23. #1273
    New Vet TennMan23's Avatar
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    Last edited by TennMan23; 07-27-2021 at 03:08 PM.

  24. #1274
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TennMan23 View Post
    Nice sparkplug off the bench. Would obviously depend on cost.

  25. #1275
    I'm very lukewarm on Forbes tbh. Not negative or anything, he does have bankable skills, but I'd much rather have Ingles or Bojan, or even go the route of helping Atlanta shed some of their upcoming extensions and taking on Bodgan or Huerter.

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