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Thread: May 3rd - New Orleans Pelicans @ Golden State - 29-35

  1. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    At this point, I'd just overpay for Lowry and Powell. Maybe we'll get lucky with a top 4 pick... But do something stupid like trade the pick instead of keeping Mobley, Green, or Suggs. Granted, Our guards are so bad that I'm high key thinking we'd have to draft a guard.

    Wished we drafted a motion shooter with length last year instead of a 6 ft point guard with his only elite skill is speed and good team know how to neutralize it. So many long term projects on this team just makes this process a drag.

    I can't handle this awful guard play anymore
    If we get like, the 4th pick, then I could see trading it depending on what the deal is for. You get the #1 pick though, there's nothing that anyone would actually offer that would get me to move it (like yeah, if Dallas offered Luka then sure but that's never ever ever going to happen so it doesn't count). Cade Cade Cade. Very few rookies come in ready to ''fix'' stuff, and I think Cade is one of them. He won't fix everything but we would immediately have a lead ball handler who can reliably create for himself and others in the half-court, and shoot, AND it's a guy who has real defensive upside.

    I wouldn't overpay for Lowry. He's 6 foot nothing and 35, and while he's really good he's not good enough to turn us into a contender immediately, which is what you'd have to be if you're spending $30m a year or more on him. Powell is more interesting, depending on what the going rate for him is. Definitely could be an option.
    Cade Cunningham/Usman Garuba/Scottie Barnes/Moses Moody/Corey Kispert endorser.

    Eye test people: analytics people watch more basketball than you do.

  2. #127
    End of this season could be a bloodbath.

    Golden State again tomorrow, look for Steph to drop another 40
    Then @ Philly, which is an expected loss
    Then @ Charlotte, who just got LaMelo back and are an okay team, could be a loss
    Then @ Memphis, probably a win because Memphis
    Then @ Dallas, probable loss
    Then @ Golden State, could very easily be a loss
    Then Vs Lakers which is a coinflip depending on their health and such

    I wouldn't be unrealistic for someone to predict us to close the season going 0-8 if you include tonight.

    Realistically we'll probably grab a couple but 3-5 could easily be on the cards.

  3. #128
    Pray for Eric !

  4. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    If we get like, the 4th pick, then I could see trading it depending on what the deal is for. You get the #1 pick though, there's nothing that anyone would actually offer that would get me to move it (like yeah, if Dallas offered Luka then sure but that's never ever ever going to happen so it doesn't count). Cade Cade Cade. Very few rookies come in ready to ''fix'' stuff, and I think Cade is one of them. He won't fix everything but we would immediately have a lead ball handler who can reliably create for himself and others in the half-court, and shoot, AND it's a guy who has real defensive upside.

    I wouldn't overpay for Lowry. He's 6 foot nothing and 35, and while he's really good he's not good enough to turn us into a contender immediately, which is what you'd have to be if you're spending $30m a year or more on him. Powell is more interesting, depending on what the going rate for him is. Definitely could be an option.
    I don't care about being a contender... I just want my eyes to stop bleeding watching these guards. I'm getting desperate.

  5. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    The most annoying thing is that even with a few decent shooters in terms of percentage, we have nobody that teams pay attention to.

    Ingram shoots a touch under 38% from 3 after tonight, Lonzo about 37.5%, both on good volume, and absolutely nobody cares when Zion is driving.

    It's a double edged sword. You want your on-ball threat to be as dominant as humanly possible, but the better they are the better your shooters need to be for anyone to even consider helping off them. Zion's so ridiculous that just being 37 or 38% isn't enough to make any defender care. We need real shooting, like Joe Harris/Joe Ingles/Buddy Hield/Duncan Robinson type shooters who can just run around like madmen and shoot 43% on 8 weird off-balance movement shots a game.
    This is why Corey Kispert would be my choice if we keep our draft pick in its current order.

  6. #131
    So Lonzo follows up a career high game in scoring with a 3 for 18 including 1 for 9 from three points. Sounds familiar. It’s why we need to hope that another team out there overpays for Lonzo so we’re not even tempted.

    Lonzo is a journeyman NBA talent who thinks he should be a star. Which is not good for team chemistry.

    And then the person who is supposed to be the number one guy on your team, Brandon Ingram shrinks back and lets it happen.

    Personally I think Griffin needs to go all in on Zion and rebuild this team around him and hope that’s enough to get him to sign his team extension. Even BI shouldn’t be considered off limits if you can move him as part of a package that will accentuate Zion’s strengths and help cover for Zion’s weaknesses.

  7. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni View Post
    So Lonzo follows up a career high game in scoring with a 3 for 18 including 1 for 9 from three points. Sounds familiar. It?s why we need to hope that another team out there overpays for Lonzo so we?re not even tempted.

    Lonzo is a journeyman NBA talent who thinks he should be a star. Which is not good for team chemistry.

    And then the person who is supposed to be the number one guy on your team, Brandon Ingram shrinks back and lets it happen.

    Personally I think Griffin needs to go all in on Zion and rebuild this team around him and hope that?s enough to get him to sign his team extension. Even BI shouldn?t be considered off limits if you can move him as part of a package that will accentuate Zion?s strengths and help cover for Zion?s weaknesses.
    What package is going to do that? Getting rid of BI just makes that package have to patch an even larger crater. Why do that? Again I was disappointed in BI last night, but there is no perfect player that wont do that on occasion. Not one that is the least bit attainable anyway. Paul George is as good as they come, but he is also notorious for disappearing or playing like horse **** at the worst times. And he's a vet.

    The "package" they need to look for is one that accentuates Zion AND BI. Not just Zion.

  8. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    What package is going to do that? Getting rid of BI just makes that package have to patch an even larger crater. Why do that? Again I was disappointed in BI last night, but there is no perfect player that wont do that on occasion. Not one that is the least bit attainable anyway. Paul George is as good as they come, but he is also notorious for disappearing or playing like horse **** at the worst times. And he's a vet.

    The "package" they need to look for is one that accentuates Zion AND BI. Not just Zion.
    You have to surround Zion with outside shooters and defenders. BI sort of checks off the shooter department, but he seems hesitant to play the role of spot up shooter while Zion's in the game. BI seems more comfortable with getting his shot (usually a mid range one) off the dribble. Which kind of makes Zion a spare tire during these offensive sets. What's worse, since Zion isn't a spot up shooter it frees the other team to sending additional guys after BI to make his life more difficult.

    But listen, offense isn't the problem. Even though I think the lack of true three point shooting makes them spend more energy on offense then they should, the offensive firepower of Zion and BI creates offensive effeciency despite the lack of spacing on the floor.

    The problem is going to be defense. Having both of your forwards as defensive liabilities is a problem. I think BI is what BI is defensively, I don't think he's going to get much better. Zion could get better if his footwork improves, but his size is alwasy going to give him some trouble in navigating NBA traffic on the defensive end. (even though it seems to give him no trouble offensively). He also expends so much energy offensively I think it takes away from his defensive game.

    The key is make Zion's life easier. If you're going to pair him up with another offensive weapon (one who perferably shoots more from behind the line than Brandon, it's prefarable if that player is a guard not a forward (Beal maybe if you can pull if off). Combine that with a traditional three and d guard, and a traditional three and d swing, along with a center that is a threat from the three point line.

    Now is all of this a pipe dream? Yea probably. But if I was Griffin, I'd be willing to use BI as a bargaining chip and go all in on making this Zion's team as opposed to the ackward hybrid it currently is.
    Last edited by Freyfamilyreuni; 05-04-2021 at 11:31 AM.

  9. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni View Post
    You have to surround Zion with outside shooters and defenders. BI sort of checks off the shooter department, but he seems hesitant to play the role of spot up shooter while Zion's in the game. BI seems more comfortable with getting his shot (usually a mid range one) off the dribble. Which kind of makes Zion a spare tire during these offensive sets. What's worse, since Zion isn't a spot up shooter it frees the other team to sending additional guys after BI to make his life more difficult.

    But listen, offense isn't the problem. Even though I think the lack of true three point shooting makes them spend more energy on offense then they should, the offensive firepower of Zion and BI creates offensive effeciency despite the lack of spacing on the floor.

    The problem is going to be defense. Having both of your forwards as defensive liabilities is a problem. I think BI is what BI is defensively, I don't think he's going to get much better. Zion could get better if his footwork improves, but his size is alwasy going to give him some trouble in navigating NBA traffic on the defensive end. (even though it seems to give him no trouble offensively). He also expends so much energy offensively I think it takes away from his defensive game.

    The key is make Zion's life easier. If you're going to pair him up with another offensive weapon (one who perferably shoots more from behind the line than Brandon, it's prefarable if that player is a guard not a forward (Beal maybe if you can pull if off). Combine that with a traditional three and d guard, and a traditional three and d swing, along with a center that is a threat from the three point line.

    Now is all of this a pipe dream? Yea probably. But if I was Griffin, I'd be willing to use BI as a bargaining chip and go all in on making this Zion's team as opposed to the ackward hybrid it currently is.
    The solution is the same solution I proffered as soon as we won the 2019 Lottery. We have to have a stretch 5. The first year I called for the likes of Brook Lopez and Maxi Kleber. in free agency. Last year I said we got the wrong Kiwi to play center; Aron Baynes would at least spread the court while Adams will just cause congestion (he also would not have broken the bank).

    And make no mistake, a stretch five would be helpful to Ingram almost as much as Zion. A big part of Ingram's game is getting to the rim (and getting to the line). Two big bodies clogging the lane only detracts from BI's game, too. That's why acquiring Adams was crazy (no knock on Adams individually).

    Ingram can (and does) score from all three levels. Talking about moving him along for some mythical package that is going to transform this team into an overnight contender is 'fools gold'. When you have a 23 year old who can do it all...you add to it, not move him along.

    I'll get flak for this but, why not Boogie Cousins until JAX develops his shot (and body).

    PS: Unless we forget, according to 'Einstein', losing Julius Randle and Christian Wood was a nothing-burger,
    Last edited by As I See It; 05-04-2021 at 12:04 PM.
    Disclaimer: I would never denigrate or defame Zion Williamson as a man or as a basketball player; he will go down as an NBA great and perhaps a Top 10+ player of all time. Any inference derived from any of my posts to the contrary is your mischaracterization of my words, or a sign of insecurity on your part (perhaps both).

    Respectfully,

    AISI

  10. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    The solution is the same solution I proffered as soon as we won the 2019 Lottery. We have to have a stretch 5. The first year I called for the likes of Brook Lopez and Maxi Kleber. in free agency. Last year I said we got the wrong Kiwi to play center; Aron Baynes would at least spread the court while Adams will just cause congestion (he also would not have broken the bank).

    And make no mistake, a stretch five would be helpful to Ingram almost as much as Zion. A big part of Ingram's game is getting to the rim (and getting to the line). Two big bodies clogging the lane only detracts from BI's game, too. That's why acquiring Adams was crazy (no knock on Adams individually).

    Ingram can (and does) score from all three levels. Talking about moving him along for some mythical package that is going to transform this team into an overnight contender is 'fools gold'. When you have a 23 year old who can do it all...you add to it, not move him along.

    I'll get flak for this but, why not Boogie Cousins until JAX develops his shot (and body).

    PS: Unless we forget, according to 'Einstein', losing Julius Randle and Christian Wood was a nothing-burger,
    I thought this also, but wouldn't Boogie be another defensive liability?

  11. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Chavan30 View Post
    I thought this also, but wouldn't Boogie be another defensive liability?
    Lord knows, it's not like we can get much worse defensively and it would make life easier for Zion and Ingram offensively. This, alone, might have an ancillary effect on their play on the defensive end. I fully admit, Cousins is a gamble, but I think the 'nice guy' approach that we currently have when competing is an epic fail. We need someone who legitimately hates to lose and won't back down.

    Superstar AD didn't know how to win until we got Rondo and Cousins. We need to find players who hate losing more than they love winning.
    Last edited by As I See It; 05-04-2021 at 12:41 PM.

  12. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    The solution is the same solution I proffered as soon as we won the 2019 Lottery. We have to have a stretch 5. The first year I called for the likes of Brook Lopez and Maxi Kleber. in free agency. Last year I said we got the wrong Kiwi to play center; Aron Baynes would at least spread the court while Adams will just cause congestion (he also would not have broken the bank).

    And make no mistake, a stretch five would be helpful to Ingram almost as much as Zion. A big part of Ingram's game is getting to the rim (and getting to the line). Two big bodies clogging the lane only detracts from BI's game, too. That's why acquiring Adams was crazy (no knock on Adams individually).

    Ingram can (and does) score from all three levels. Talking about moving him along for some mythical package that is going to transform this team into an overnight contender is 'fools gold'. When you have a 23 year old who can do it all...you add to it, not move him along.

    I'll get flak for this but, why not Boogie Cousins until JAX develops his shot (and body).

    PS: Unless we forget, according to 'Einstein', losing Julius Randle and Christian Wood was a nothing-burger,
    You cant just say stretch 5 as if all are created equal. Some are decent on defense, some horrible, some good. Some are good passers on the short roll, some are awful. Some can rebound, some dont rebound at all and some are good at boxing out while others eat up rebounds. Some make 30 mil per year, some make 8 mil.

    The ability to "stretch" is one small skill in a myriad of things that make up the player. Not to mention that some guys can make the 3 but opponents dont come out on them, and therefore no extra space would be created while others are heavily respected out there. Aron Baynes, for example can hit from out there, but the defense will live with him making 1 or 2 threes a game over chasing him to prevent a three and leaving the paint wide open for Zion.

    I tend to go the other way - Zion is gonna score even with a stiff like Adams out there. Is he all of a sudden going to average 35 on 70 percent shooting if you open up the paint? I dont think so. The issue is turnovers. When this team doesnt turn the ball over, they score at a high enough rate to beat almost anybody. The goal should be to get a guy to run the offense and get us into sets, instead of throwing the ball away. Which leads to live ball turnovers and easy points on the other end. And we should go cheap at center. If he can shoot, cool, if he is a rim runner cool, whatever. But we shouldnt be throwing assets and money at that position.
    @mcnamara247

  13. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    You cant just say stretch 5 as if all are created equal. Some are decent on defense, some horrible, some good. Some are good passers on the short roll, some are awful. Some can rebound, some dont rebound at all and some are good at boxing out while others eat up rebounds. Some make 30 mil per year, some make 8 mil.

    The ability to "stretch" is one small skill in a myriad of things that make up the player. Not to mention that some guys can make the 3 but opponents dont come out on them, and therefore no extra space would be created while others are heavily respected out there. Aron Baynes, for example can hit from out there, but the defense will live with him making 1 or 2 threes a game over chasing him to prevent a three and leaving the paint wide open for Zion.

    I tend to go the other way - Zion is gonna score even with a stiff like Adams out there. Is he all of a sudden going to average 35 on 70 percent shooting if you open up the paint? I dont think so. The issue is turnovers. When this team doesnt turn the ball over, they score at a high enough rate to beat almost anybody. The goal should be to get a guy to run the offense and get us into sets, instead of throwing the ball away. Which leads to live ball turnovers and easy points on the other end. And we should go cheap at center. If he can shoot, cool, if he is a rim runner cool, whatever. But we shouldnt be throwing assets and money at that position.
    Like you, I wouldn't throw a ton of money at the position, but we need someone who needs to be guarded. I would consider Kelly Olynyk @ 12MM (if we could dump Adams) a massive upgrade.

  14. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    Like you, I wouldn't throw a ton of money at the position, but we need someone who needs to be guarded. I would consider Kelly Olynyk @ 12MM (if we could dump Adams) a massive upgrade.
    The player that needs to be guarded in this time... Is your 1 and 2 guard. You'll get more effective spacing when your shooters are actually a threat.

  15. #140
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    Like you, I wouldn't throw a ton of money at the position, but we need someone who needs to be guarded. I would consider Kelly Olynyk @ 12MM (if we could dump Adams) a massive upgrade.

    question..if you were coaching against zion plus a stretch 5 that needed to be guarded ,,,how would you play defense against that team?...

    im asking because i think you would live with the stretch living on the 3pt line over playing zion man to man but i could be wrong....

  16. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by 6warddude View Post
    question..if you were coaching against zion plus a stretch 5 that needed to be guarded ,,,how would you play defense against that team?...

    im asking because i think you would live with the stretch living on the 3pt line over playing zion man to man but i could be wrong....

    A stretch 5 making an avg of 33-36% on like 4 attempts. Any team just gonna live with those odd


    Not a fan of chasing waterfalls... Umm I mean Unicorns.

  17. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    The player that needs to be guarded in this time... Is your 1 and 2 guard. You'll get more effective spacing when your shooters are actually a threat.
    If Adams has the ball 15-18 feet from the basket facing the basket, where is the defender who is guarding him?

    If you said laying back in the paint clogging up the middle, you would be right 95% of the time.

  18. #143
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    The player that needs to be guarded in this time... Is your 1 and 2 guard. You'll get more effective spacing when your shooters are actually a threat.
    i agree...even now we see teams throwing 2 playing at ingram and just letting lonzo and bledsoe be.....

    we just need a starting back court that can punish teams on their own to make ingram and zion life easy......

  19. #144
    I know it's a loser fan's argument, but rewatching the game (I know) the difference in the first half was really all the point blank layups we missed. Despite Steph, despite Lonzo's horrendous shooting, if we just make our bunnies we are close or even a little up for most of the first half. The whole complexion of the game would have been different.

    By contrast every wild-****** toss to the backboard they made went in. I guess I'm saying on the rewatch it felt more like "just one of those nights" than the total butt-kicking it seemed in real time.

  20. #145
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    I know it's a loser fan's argument, but rewatching the game (I know) the difference in the first half was really all the point blank layups we missed. Despite Steph, despite Lonzo's horrendous shooting, if we just make our bunnies we are close or even a little up for most of the first half. The whole complexion of the game would have been different.

    By contrast every wild-****** toss to the backboard they made went in. I guess I'm saying on the rewatch it felt more like "just one of those nights" than the total butt-kicking it seemed in real time.

    man the miss layups had me loosing it in the first half to where the wife cut the game off and had me watching fatal attraction with her....the wife know not to come between me and my saints and pelicans but thats how bad it got for me that i couldnt say anything to her for turning the game off lol smh....

  21. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post

    I tend to go the other way - Zion is gonna score even with a stiff like Adams out there. Is he all of a sudden going to average 35 on 70 percent shooting if you open up the paint? I dont think so. The issue is turnovers. When this team doesnt turn the ball over, they score at a high enough rate to beat almost anybody. The goal should be to get a guy to run the offense and get us into sets, instead of throwing the ball away. Which leads to live ball turnovers and easy points on the other end. And we should go cheap at center. If he can shoot, cool, if he is a rim runner cool, whatever. But we shouldnt be throwing assets and money at that position.
    But isn't it possible that our lack of spacing is one of the things that is causing us to turn the ball over? If teams are free to collapse on Zion and BI when the get into the paint, that's more players they have to navigate around and it increases the chances of them turning the ball over. We're a good offensive team, but we could be a much more effecient offensive team if we had better three point shooting. Which would probably allow us to spend less energy on offense, and would probably also reduce our chances of turnovers.

  22. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    A stretch 5 making an avg of 33-36% on like 4 attempts. Any team just gonna live with those odd


    Not a fan of chasing waterfalls... Umm I mean Unicorns.
    I’m not sure we need a stretch 5 so much as a player that allows us to play small ball (maybe with Zion filling in at the 5 for small stretches) or a power forward that can fill in there to stretch the floor. A true stretch 5 would be ideal if it were available though

  23. #148
    Who was the Warriors center last night? Was he a three point threat? Did they have spacing? You dont need 5 shooters to have spacing. Or even 4 (Draymond is also a non threat offensively). What you need is smart players. Players who move, who dont hold the ball. Go up and down the line of the best offenses in the league and the vast majority dont have a stretch 5. Clippers are getting to their spots with Zubac having no range. Wizards have Westbrook barrelling to the basket and have done it with non threats Daniel Gafford and Robin Lopez. The majority of the Nets center minutes this year have gone to DeAndre, Jarrett Allen, and Nic Claxton - who have a combined 0 three pointers made between them.

    Would a guy who could hit an open 3 hurt? Of course not. But its not the solution to the problems. The guards are the issue and this Point Zion stuff is nice and all, but he is looking to score 98% of the time. Thats not a point guard. In the biggest game of the year, he had 1 assist and 4 turnovers. Ingram is a decent secondary playmaker, but what this team needs more than anything is a guard to control the game. And if they get that, it wouldnt matter who was at center or what their skill sets were. The team will score just fine.

  24. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Who was the Warriors center last night? Was he a three point threat? Did they have spacing? You dont need 5 shooters to have spacing. Or even 4 (Draymond is also a non threat offensively). What you need is smart players. Players who move, who dont hold the ball. Go up and down the line of the best offenses in the league and the vast majority dont have a stretch 5. Clippers are getting to their spots with Zubac having no range. Wizards have Westbrook barrelling to the basket and have done it with non threats Daniel Gafford and Robin Lopez. The majority of the Nets center minutes this year have gone to DeAndre, Jarrett Allen, and Nic Claxton - who have a combined 0 three pointers made between them.

    Would a guy who could hit an open 3 hurt? Of course not. But its not the solution to the problems. The guards are the issue and this Point Zion stuff is nice and all, but he is looking to score 98% of the time. Thats not a point guard. In the biggest game of the year, he had 1 assist and 4 turnovers. Ingram is a decent secondary playmaker, but what this team needs more than anything is a guard to control the game. And if they get that, it wouldnt matter who was at center or what their skill sets were. The team will score just fine.
    Green may not score points, but to say he is non threat offensively is a bit of a stretch. He's the offensive straw that stirs the drink. He was "Point Zion" long before there was a "Point Zion". He's the orchestrator; the guy who facilitates the entire offense (and still manages to play a little defense). He leads the team in Assists, can shoot a free throw, and somehow manages to lead the team in rebounding (and still manages to shoot 43%+ from the field).

    Sorry, the new-age "Point Zion" does not measure up yet (maybe never will).
    Last edited by As I See It; 05-04-2021 at 03:32 PM.

  25. #150
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    we all have seen how good the pelican can be with a floor general.....cp3,,rondo,,payton....the floor general is the main piece...

    the clippers went out and got rondo to run the ship and take the pressure off of pg13 and kawhi from handling the ball......we see what cp3 has done for the suns....

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