Zion Williamson Makes All Star Team

[Pelicanidae]

Zion on the significance of reaching the All-Star game so early in his career:

"That goes back to thanking my coaches and my teammates. Those guys really trust me and they really put me in a position to showcase who I am. ... I just want to thank them for allowing me to be me."

— Will Guillory (@WillGuillory) February 24, 2021

[Loco Hornet Fan]

It's definitely not splitting hairs skill-set wise.

Bringing up the ball from back court is infinitely easier than effective driving into the key or trying to initiate the offence from the perimeter, especially when there's only token defensive pressure to get the ball over the half way line. That is most of the game until players go "******** there's only 2 minutes left and we're only up 1, better actually start pressuring the ball carrier now."

Anyone who's ever played point guard in their Basketball career will attest to this

Well by “bringing the ball up”, I didn’t mean the physical act of dribbling the ball past halfcourt and nothing more. I meant Zion bringing the ball up in transition (allowing him to hit people like Hart and Kira for east baskets), or bringing the ball up and getting us into our offense in the half court.

It was to point out some of the added ball-handling and play making responsibilities we began giving him (letting him have the ball and drive more was obviously a part of this too), as well as to provide context for the Jan 27 date and our offensive rating since then. It would have been like saying “since the whole ‘point Zion’ thing happened”.

But I also know that driving and “bringing the ball up”/early offense are different skills. That’s why I said “they are BOTH part of his ability to make plays...”

I said that I wasn’t going to split hairs because 1) it wasn’t necessary to refute Bucher’s hot take and 2) the poster I was responding to was using those quotes to mock another poster’s spelling and grammar, not have an actual discussion about skills and creating offense.

[AusPel]

Well by ?bringing the ball up?, I didn?t mean the physical act of dribbling the ball past halfcourt and nothing more. I meant Zion bringing the ball up in transition (allowing him to hit people like Hart and Kira for east baskets), or bringing the ball up and getting us into our offense in the half court.

But I also know they are different skills. That?s why I said ?they are BOTH part of his ability to make plays...?

I said that I wasn?t going to split hairs because 1) it wasn?t necessary to refute Bucher?s hot take and 2) the poster I was responding to was using those quotes to mock another poster?s spelling and grammar, not have an actual discussion about skills and creating offense.

Ok, well bringing the ball up begins when you receive the ball deep in the backcourt and ends around the time the defense engages the ball handler (conventionally, just outside the three point line) and it's time to think about getting into the offence

It is most unequivocally, not splitting hairs with driving

I don't care if you were trying to mock someone or whatever, you were simply wrong

[As I See It]

Well by “bringing the ball up”, I didn’t mean the physical act of dribbling the ball past halfcourt and nothing more. I meant Zion bringing the ball up in transition (allowing him to hit people like Hart and Kira for east baskets), or bringing the ball up and getting us into our offense in the half court.

But I also know they are different skills. That’s why I said “they are BOTH part of his ability to make plays...”

I said that I wasn’t going to split hairs because 1) it wasn’t necessary to refute Bucher’s hot take and 2) the poster I was responding to was using those quotes to mock another poster’s spelling and grammar, not have an actual discussion about skills and creating offense.

See Post 29 of this thread to see who was disparaging who. My posts stand for themselves.

[Freyfamilyreuni]

Try reading the post I'm responding to from HornetGuru (I realize he's a difficult read). He doesn't say anything about 'bringing the ball up'. He speaks to 'droving' the ball (see post 29 in this thread) which Zion has done all season long. Further if he is drawing four on one coverage, I assure you we wouldn't be four games under .500 (unless we suck more than I realize).

Nice try though

I definitely think Zion is a huge gravity well drawing a large number of defenders towards him, and yes often drawing four people. The reason we're under .500 is yes we must suck more than you realize. Our defense is putrid and we don't have consistent outside shooting to always make teams pay for clogging the lane. We also for some inexplicable reason have a tendancy to stop getting Zion the ball for extended periods so we can watch Brandon take a contested mid range shot after an extended and meandering period of dribbling.

[JJackisangry]

There?s no way Zion should be on this team over Devin Booker. None

— Tony Jones (@Tjonesonthenba) February 24, 2021

LeBron also just tweeted that Booker should?ve made it over Zion.

Booker is a guard. Zion is a power forward. Almost sounds like you have an agenda as you could have said Booker deserved to make it over CP3

[luckyman]

I definitely think Zion is a huge gravity well drawing a large number of defenders towards him, and yes often drawing four people. The reason we're under .500 is yes we must suck more than you realize. Our defense is putrid and we don't have consistent outside shooting to always make teams pay for clogging the lane. We also for some inexplicable reason have a tendancy to stop getting Zion the ball for extended periods so we can watch Brandon take a contested mid range shot after an extended and meandering period of dribbling.

Because this is the NBA and you can't just do whatever you want all the time. You're going to have to rely on someone taking a contested shot after "an extended and meandering period of dribbling." Every team in the NBA has to deal with that and every fan base complains about it. The issue is who is taking those shots. And ideally you want your best players doing so. Zion can't and shouldn't have to take them all.

I fail to understand all this whining and complaining about a guy giving this team 24/5/5 on shooting splits of 47/39/88. There are precious few SF in the entire league near, at or above the gold standard 50/40/90, yet BI is close. I think he's missed 3 free throws the entire month of February. I know folks here see the failures more than the wins. But more often than not, when BI has to do that, he's won more often. Of all the glaring issues this team has, BI in iso mode is one of the least.

And Zion has to also learn how to make himself available for the ball when he doesn't have it. Like early in the year he just stands and watches Lonzo hoist a contested 3, yet last game he moved and got position to make Lonzo pass it to him.

[JJackisangry]

How many multis does that guy have? Anyways, Zion definitely deserved to make it. Early season Zion was slow and telegraphed and you?d have an argument. Zion as of late has learned to pick up the pace and make decisions much faster which has made him very difficult to guard. He is also starting to make his free throws which makes it less desirable to play the hack a Zion. Dude is posting a 26.6 PER as a 20 year old. I don?t like to call people dumb or stupid, but this hill that people want to die on is making them look incredibly silly. You can poke holes in his game and talk about what he needs to improve on. That is fair. But to insinuate that Zion didn?t deserve to make it because Devin freakin Booker (a guard) was snubbed for his own teammate (a 35 year old guard) makes me question your ability to be rational.

[AusPel]

Booker is a guard. Zion is a power forward. Almost sounds like you have an agenda as you could have said Booker deserved to make it over CP3

Jesus Christ on the Cross

Guys like Zion are the single reason the All Star game exists

It was built to showcase the most exciting, most skilled guys in the game

Yes, Booker is very skilled but 0.0000000% of people would rather pay to watch Booker in an exhibition, fun game over Zion

I swear Covid is doing some serious brain rotting across the world

Go and argue your case for an All NBA team, but don't be bringing that ******** here

Note: I'm not disputing you JJ, but pointing out the absolute nonsense that was that Tony Jones Tweet

[Loco Hornet Fan]

Ok, well bringing the ball up begins when you receive the ball deep in the backcourt and ends around the time the defense engages the ball handler (conventionally, just outside the three point line) and it's time to think about getting into the offence

It is most unequivocally, not splitting hairs with driving

I don't care if you were trying to mock someone or whatever, you were simply wrong

What are you talking about? I wasn’t trying to mock anyone. The guy I was responding to was mocking (over several posts) a few typos from HornetGuru and not engaging with his overall point. It was unnecessarily rude and a bad faith argument from As I See It, and I didn’t think it was worth trying to get into the details with him. But I wasn’t the one calling people childish names and making fun of a simple spelling mistake.

If you want to emphatically declare me “simply wrong” about stuff, perhaps you could read a bit more carefully yourself?

Especially since you continue to ignore the fact that I never said driving and bringing the ball up were the same thing. I used the word “both” to signify that they are different aspects of making things easier for teammates (which Bucher said Zion doesn’t do). In my next post I straight up said “they are different skills”. I don’t know why you are looking so hard for an argument that you are ignoring most of what I’m saying?

I also think you are being needlessly pedantic with how your defining “bringing the ball up”, especially after I already clarified what I meant. I know what the physical acts of dribbling/bringing the ball up the court entails and do not require you to condescendingly dictate them to me.

As I said, I already clarified that I meant “bringing the ball up” under the umbrella of getting us into our offense, whether that is handling the ball and making passes in transition, or getting us into early offense. I happen to think that it is perfectly fine to use that phrase in those situations (I’m pretty sure others have done the same), but if you want to set the parameter that as soon as a defender engages, then the phrase is out the window, fine. I won’t continue to argue that point with you because I don’t think it really matters or changes anything I was saying.

I was mostly using the team allowing Zion to bring the ball up as a cue for when “point Zion” began, which was necessary context for the offensive rating stat I was using in response to Ric Bucher’s comments.

I’ve now clarified twice for you. You are of course free to dismiss my points for pedantic phrasing, call me wrong, whatever. I’m done arguing about this.

[Pelicanidae]

Booker is a guard. Zion is a power forward. Almost sounds like you have an agenda as you could have said Booker deserved to make it over CP3

WHich would have been inaccurate cause he doesn't.

[AusPel]

What are you talking about? I wasn’t trying to mock anyone. The guy I was responding to was mocking (over several posts) a few typos from HornetGuru and not engaging with his overall point. It was unnecessarily rude and a bad faith argument from As I See It, and I didn’t think it was worth trying to get into the details with him. But I wasn’t the one calling people childish names and making fun of a simple spelling mistake.

If you want to emphatically declare me “simply wrong” about stuff, perhaps you could read a bit more carefully yourself?

Especially since you continue to ignore the fact that I never said driving and bringing the ball up were the same thing. I used the word “both” to signify that they are different aspects of making things easier for teammates (which Bucher said Zion doesn’t do). In my next post I straight up said “they are different skills”. I don’t know why you are looking so hard for an argument that you are ignoring most of what I’m saying?

I also think you are being needlessly pedantic with how your defining “bringing the ball up”, especially after I already clarified what I meant. I know what the physical acts of dribbling/bringing the ball up the court entails and do not require you to condescendingly dictate them to me.

As I said, I already clarified that I meant “bringing the ball up” under the umbrella of getting us into our offense, whether that is handling the ball and making passes in transition, or getting us into early offense. I happen to think that it is perfectly fine to use that phrase in those situations (I’m pretty sure others have done the same), but if you want to set the parameter that as soon as a defender engages, then the phrase is out the window, fine. I won’t continue to argue that point with you because I don’t think it really matters or changes anything I was saying.

I was mostly using the team allowing Zion to bring the ball up as a cue for when “point Zion” began, which was necessary context for the offensive rating stat I was using in response to Ric Bucher’s comments.

I’ve now clarified twice for you. You are of course free to dismiss my points for pedantic phrasing, call me wrong, whatever. I’m done arguing about this.

Yeah I'm happy with your clarifications since your initial post

[Loco Hornet Fan]

This thread was supposed to be a congratulations thread. But I see lot of bickering.

Absolutely.

I’ve played my part in some of that back-and-forth, and I apologize to the innocent bystanders.

It’s been really fun to watch Zion develop in such a short amount of time and he deserved to make it. He seems like a genuinely nice guy and is easy to root for.

[JJackisangry]

WHich would have been inaccurate cause he doesn't.

I’m not so sure. It’s debatable as much as I admire Chris Paul. But Zion does not equal guard which was the point. Booker was competing against other guards for that spot. Not Zion

[AusPel]

Why is it so hard for the NBA just to play the most exciting, skilled guys in the All Star Game?

Mike Conley has never made an All Star Game but who gives a ********? What part of Conley's game is exciting?

People do this weird correllation that being named in the All Star game is somehow equivalent to getting named to an All NBA team

There's a very good reason the two accolades are separate, but it's been completely lost

LaMelo Ball should definitely be playing in the All Star Game. He's one reason you pay to watch a fun, exhibition game.

Not to see Mike Conley be all level headed and heady

[JJackisangry]

Why is it so hard for the NBA just to play the most exciting, skilled guys in the All Star game?

Mike Conley has never made an All Star Game but who gives a ********? What part of Conley's game is exciting?

People do this weird correllation that being named in the All Star game is somehow equivalent to getting named to an All NBA team

There's a very good reason the two accolades are separate

My take is this. It pisses me off when bozos like Carmelo who obviously don’t deserve jack end up in the conversation. To say that X doesn’t deserve to make the game when Y did (and both players are very talented and deserve to be acknowledged) is quite frankly stupid. You can’t pick everyone unfortunately

[AusPel]

My take is this. It pisses me off when bozos like Carmelo who obviously don’t deserve jack end up in the conversation. To say that X doesn’t deserve to make the game when Y did (and both players are very talented and deserve to be acknowledged) is quite frankly stupid. You can’t pick everyone unfortunately

No you can't pick everyone, which is why X Factor and excitement levels should be a tie breaker for the All Star Game

It's an exhibition game about high flying plays and amazing plays you would expect to see above and beyond a normal game of Basketball

Not to see which team can best excute a finely tuned play to find the open man. It's about ridiculous dunks, ridiculous passes, ridiculous shooting, ridiculous ISOs and everything else exciting. And some defense of course

Right now it's basically picking the All NBA teams before they're officially announced

[Pelicanidae]

No you can't pick everyone, which is why X Factor and excitement levels should be a tie breaker for the All Star Game

It's an exhibition game about high flying plays and amazing plays you would expect to see above and beyond a normal game of Basketball

Not to see which team can best excute a finely tuned play to find the open man. It's about ridiculous dunks, ridiculous passes, ridiculous shooting and everything else exciting. And some defense of course

Right now it's basically picking the All NBA teams before they're officially announced

Unfortunately, I think it's largely the fan's fault.

People treat All-star selections as legacy definers. People love to talk about how Kobe had 18 All Star selections as part of his myth and mystique; people love to point out that Kareem's 19 all-star selections is an all time record, as part of his acclaim. Lebron's 17 consecutive all-star games gets listed alongside his career points and his MVP awards when people are talking about legacy.

As long as that's the case, people will want great players to be in all-star games, regardless of aesthetic: because never making an all-star team, or making very few, reflects poorly on your career to most people. Should it? No, but it does. That's why.

[AusPel]

Unfortunately, I think it's largely the fan's fault.

People treat All-star selections as legacy definers. People love to talk about how Kobe had 18 All Star selections as part of his myth and mystique; people love to point out that Kareem's 19 all-star selections is an all time record, as part of his acclaim. Lebron's 17 consecutive all-star games gets listed alongside his career points and his MVP awards when people are talking about legacy.

As long as that's the case, people will want great players to be in all-star games, regardless of aesthetic: because never making an all-star team, or making very few, reflects poorly on your career to most people. Should it? No, but it does. That's why.

They should make the All NBA Teams peer voted

Surely that would hold way more value than a popularity contest, fan/media voted, All Star nod?

The way they base All Star voting has always ******** me to tears. Someone can click Mo Bamba 5,000,000 times and he'll be an All Star starter

Why do NBA players care so much about Joe Schmo who can click the most times?

[Pelicanidae]

They should make the All NBA Teams peer voted

Surely that would hold way more value than a popularity contest, fan/media voted, All Star nod?

The way they base All Star voting has always ******** me to tears. Someone can click Mo Bamba 5,000,000 times and he'll be an All Star starter

Why do NBA players care so much about Joe Schmo who can click the most times?

There are problems with all manner of things. Make it peer voted and immediately players who are disliked by their peers will not get all-NBA selections regardless of how good they play.

[AusPel]

There are problems with all manner of things. Make it peer voted and immediately players who are disliked by their peers will not get all-NBA selections regardless of how good they play.

Yes there are inherent problems most of the ways

Make every NBA player's vote transparent and you'll cut down on that problem

[Loco Hornet Fan]

Yeah I'm happy with your clarifications since your initial post

Well thanks, I guess. I still don’t see the need for all of this attitude.

It also helps if you actually read it when someone clarifies themself the first time (or at least asks for clarification without the unnecessary condescension). And perhaps get it straight who was actually mocking other posters (you seemed to have misread or ignored the initial posts AND the explanation) before making such declarative statements about who is “simply wrong”.

[wuggie]

Congrats to Zion, dude is a beast.

[Loco Hornet Fan]

Congrats to Zion, dude is a beast.

+ 1

[13 - 3]

If you disagree with @RealStevenAdams about @Zionwilliamson playing like an All-Star... get out of here, mate �� pic.twitter.com/yGS8dyQpCR

— New Orleans Pelicans (@PelicansNBA) February 25, 2021