February 19th - New Orleans Pelicans VS Phoenix Suns - 12-16

[Nichols]

Sure. But when you're making $28m and you're 5 years into your career you get slightly less leeway than you did when you were making 30% of that and were 21.

I will reiterate: the coaching is bad.

But Ingram's a big boy now, and he needs to be better regardless of the coaching.

There are plenty of young players around the league who have had bad coaches and when they've lost close games we've been able to say ''get that man some help!'' cause it's not their fault, they did everything right and played heroically and just ate dirt anyway.

This is not one of those times. The team overall needs to be better, and so does the coaching, but regardless of that, Ingram deserves some real criticism.

Ingram does get criticism. From all of us. You on the other hand seemed lasered in on him. And I'm not the only one on this board that notices.

[Pelicanidae]

Ingram does get criticism. From all of us. You on the other hand seemed lasered in on him. And I'm not the only one on this board that notices.

*thumbs up*

I'm focused on him because he's the ''virtually untouchable'' max contract player who it would be ''ridiculous'' to ''even entertain the idea'' of trading. Sorry but when you're supposed to be the number 1 option and the leader of the team and one of the best wings in the league, as I've been told a thousand times he is, I expect better.

[Eman5805]

Ingram isn't an issue. He is what he is. Very solid. A B to B+ player in most facets.

[Taker597]

Just stop bothering. Look, here are Celtics fans after a bad loss to the Hawks the other night. Sound familiar?







And then there are those like us that try and bring some rational thought back to life...even one that sounds like my twin...



It is the life of a fan board where outlandish stupidity reigns after bad losses. Especially for young players still growing their games.

Of ALL the issues this team has, especially at guard and on defense...Ingram isn't one of them. But carry on.

I will add to this..


Regardless what coaching we have... It's all talent and execution league. Vogel is an NBA championship coach. The misconception that most NBA coaches aren't here to teach and develop players. They run a scheme and players have to execute. Players aren't excuting.

[Pelicanidae]

Ingram isn't an issue. He is what he is. Very solid. A B to B+ player in most facets.

He's not the biggest issue, that's for sure. Here's a B tier player, which is good. Stuff he needs to improve, unquestionably, but he's not flat dreadful.

If I was asked to pick ''the'' problem (which is obviously difficult because we have many) I would say point-of-attack defense.

[Funcrusher]

Yeah bro always the coaching. Never the players. It's Monty's, Gentry's and now SVGs fault

? Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) February 20, 2021

That's not to say zero blame falls on the coaching at all. Of course some does.

But here in Pelicans land, we've had people blaming the coach for damn near everything for about a decade now, and I know that Lakers fans found plenty of blame for Luke Walton as well.

At some point when the same players have struggled to make any kind of late game decision making of quality under two, three different coaches, you have to accept that maybe at least some of it is on the players as well.

Shamit's point would make sense if their was literally a player from Monty's tenure that was still on the team. Not to say I disagree with your point, but I don't think that tweet was particularly an argument made in good faith.

[Nichols]

Just stop bothering. Look, here are Celtics fans after a bad loss to the Hawks the other night. Sound familiar?







And then there are those like us that try and bring some rational thought back to life...even one that sounds like my twin...



Now it's not as bad as this place, but it is the life of a fan board where outlandish stupidity reigns after bad losses. Especially for young players still growing their games.

Of ALL the issues this team has, especially at guard and on defense...Ingram isn't one of them. But carry on.

Yea, like we know Ingram has warts. He's 23 and still developing. When he does something stupid 99% of us on this board comment on it.

His offenses are easily correctable with a competent coach. Some of those offenses wouldn't even occur with a coach that had an offensive system installed. Players are out there freelancing in the 4th. That's okay if you're Lebron, CP3, or some other elite facilitator. Doesn't work with young developing teams. Which is why 75% of the blame is on coaching.

[Pelicanidae]

Shamit's point would make sense if their was literally a player from Monty's tenure that was still on the team. Not to say I disagree with your point, but I don't think that tweet was particularly an argument made in good faith.

Swap out Monty's name with Walton's and it still works lmao

[Funcrusher]

Swap out Monty's name with Walton's and it still works lmao

Yeah, nevermind lol, can't argue that.

[Fedupfan]

The one common problem for all the coaches that Shamit is mentioning is they were terrible and are terrible at rotations. They let players sit too long and let ppl play that don’t belong on the court. Rotations are part of coaching. Don’t put players on the court that’s not getting the job done.

[As I See It]

You guys are a little too hard on the players.. they can play better individually. But meltdowns in the fourth, and not being able to generate quality shots is on the coaching staff.

If it's not Ingram and Zion in picks, they are isoing. That's by design. That's not them deciding they're going to ignore a play call.

It's not the coaching staff giving up 41 points in the 4th and scoring only 12.

[Impose]

*thumbs up*

I'm focused on him because he's the ''virtually untouchable'' max contract player who it would be ''ridiculous'' to ''even entertain the idea'' of trading. Sorry but when you're supposed to be the number 1 option and the leader of the team and one of the best wings in the league, as I've been told a thousand times he is, I expect better.

You do realise, analytics guy, that when Ingram fills out a little more he's going to be amazing. I genuinely see his only problem being bumped off his drives. Once that's solved with weight added he's amazing.

Ingram is untouchable, Zion/BI locked up for a few years is too good to mess with, gotta fix the problems around it.

For all the nit picking and soap boxing you do you can't tell me you don't feel comfortable with 95% if the ********s Brandon takes. He's money from almost anywhere, that's not easy to find in this league.

The issue is the team is top heavy talent-wise and our bench has massive deficiencies. I'm sure defensive philosophy on guarding pick and roll could be better or better personnel bought in to fix that, but BI isn't the problem and is still going to get better by virtue of age and weight.

[Nichols]

It's not the coaching staff giving up 41 points in the 4th and scoring only 12.

Nope.. it's not. Which is why I'm not saying it's entirely the coaches fault for how this team is performing. Not sure how I communicated that it was, or why what I'm saying is so difficult to understand.

Does this squad look well prepared to you? Do the defensive schemes look good to you? Would everything be perfect if this was the case? No, but we'd see a better product on the floor.

[Pelicanidae]

The one common problem for all the coaches that Shamit is mentioning is they were terrible and are terrible at rotations. They let players sit too long and let ppl play that don’t belong on the court. Rotations are part of coaching. Don’t put players on the court that’s not getting the job done.

Absolutely agree, and just to be clear (again), I'm not saying the coaches don't deserve at least some of the blame.

Everyone knows Walton isn't a good coach: he was bad in LA and in Sacramento.
Gentry, for all of his offensive strengths, couldn't string together a consistent NBA defense despite starting Jrue Holiday and Anthony Davis, and ran some of the most absurd lineups of all time.
Stan Van runs weird rotations where Zion's on the bench at precisely the moments he shouldn't be and seems allergic to playing Kira alongside Lonzo (until tonight).

The coaches definitely have issues.

It's just the people love the use the coach as a dumping ground for even more than their fair share of the blame. Not going to speculate as to why, but it happens.

Take our guard defense for example. It's not like we haven't made adjustments this year. We've tried trapping, we've tried drop coverage, we've tried hard hedging, it doesn't seem to matter what we do, guards just murder us. What's the common denominator? It's whoever our guards are on that tends to kill us most often. The coaching has changed, the scheme has been different at different times in different games. The common aspect is the players. And they've stunk.

[Pelicanidae]

You do realise, analytics guy, that when Ingram fills out a little more he's going to be amazing. I genuinely see his only problem being bumped off his drives. Once that's solved with weight added he's amazing.

Ingram is untouchable, Zion/BI locked up for a few years is too good to mess with, gotta fix the problems around it.
.

Just out of curiosity, when do you think Ingram's going to put that weight on?

[luckyman]

Perhaps I was too hard on this board. Fan reactionary stupidity seems to be universal.

Same Celtics fan board.

I love Tatum I think he has the ability to become an MVP candidate, but his playing style seems like he keeps reverting to an iso style that’s not conducive to ball movement, player touches and winning.

I’m just curious how many players would you be willing to move Tatum for? For me there is only two guys; Luka and Giannis. Others may be more talented at the moment but are either too old, comes with baggage or have major injury issues.

Doncic and Brown would be my dream duo, Brown would cover Luka’s defensive weakness. Brown has the rare level humility for his talent and would happily allow Doncic to run the show if that lead to wins.

Who would you be willing to make a Tatum trade for?

I would Tatum for Zion or Jokic

Sorry yall. Seems it's par for the course. Perhaps MM's "elite" board is a good place after all. I give up.

[Pelicanidae]

Perhaps I was too hard on this board. Fan reactionary stupidity seems to be universal.

Sorry yall. Seems it's par for the course. Perhaps MM's "elite" board is a good place after all. I give up.

I wouldn't bet on it. It has MM there.

[Impose]

Just out of curiosity, when do you think Ingram's going to put that weight on?

It's anyones guess to make, I feel like 2 more years is the starting point where it'll be noticable.

[Eman5805]

Pull your expectations down a few notches and relax for a bit. We have a window of time to get things right before we start actually feeling any urgency. Of course, that's me saying that. I'm chillin' at home. I'm not Gayle Benson or Griffin or whomever trying to have this franchise eat it's cake and still still have it.

Pick a direction and commit. Because we are out there like we want to make the playoffs...but we're executing and got players fit to finish in the upper half of the lottery. And I think that's where the disconnect and despair is setting in for people.

My one concern is we start selling assets early to try and force a playoff run and fall short and not even be able to reap the benefits of having lots of draft assets anymore. And then we max contract Lonzo Ball and I walk up a clocktower with a conspicuous briefcase...

[Pelicanidae]

It's anyones guess to make, I feel like 2 more years is the starting point where it'll be noticable.

Okay.

I just genuinely wonder cause I feel like I've been hearing ''just you wait, he's going to put that weight on'' for about 6 years now and it just hasn't happened. Some guys just don't put weight on, really. Lifelong twigmen exist, and so far to me it seems like that's Ingram. Not his fault or anything like that, just seems to be the way he's built from what I can tell.

[sterlr]

The issue with this team is all between the head.

[Nichols]

Okay.

I just genuinely wonder cause I feel like I've been hearing ''just you wait, he's going to put that weight on'' for about 6 years now and it just hasn't happened. Some guys just don't put weight on, really. Lifelong twigmen exist, and so far to me it seems like that's Ingram. Not his fault or anything like that, just seems to be the way he's built from what I can tell.

This is an example of some of the silly things you say regarding Ingram. He's clearly put on weight since he's been in the league. Which makes this statement by you a lie.. Your commentary on this board his highly credible on all things except for Ingram.

[Pelicanidae]

Pull your expectations down a few notches and relax for a bit. We have a window of time to get things right before we start actually feeling any urgency. Of course, that's me saying that. I'm chillin' at home. I'm not Gayle Benson or Griffin or whomever trying to have this franchise eat it's cake and still still have it.

Pick a direction and commit. Because we are out there like we want to make the playoffs...but we're executing and got players fit to finish in the upper half of the lottery. And I think that's where the disconnect and despair is setting in for people.

My one concern is we start selling assets early to try and force a playoff run and fall short and not even be able to reap the benefits of having lots of draft assets anymore. And then we max contract Lonzo Ball and I walk up a clocktower with a conspicuous briefcase...

For me, the reason I get annoyed is that personally, what I think we should be doing is playing the young guys together as much as possible and trading certain players (Lonzo, Bledsoe, Redick) for either young guys who project as fits alongside Zion going forward, or more assets if we can get them. Then we just play the young guys and have fun with it and if we lose we lose but at least there's a clear direction from the team: lottery bound, sure, but getting lots of run to Kira and Jax and Zion and so on, building chemistry and experience.

The issue is that we're getting smoked regularly while still playing ''the vets'' like Redick and Hernangomez and such.

Meanwhile, if our actual plan is for the playoffs, then Stan needs to sort these rotations out and the team needs to get their act together drastically quick.

Right now we just don't have a clear direction as a team and that's what's frustrating.

[sterlr]

That was quite the meltdown....

I mean, it looks like we contest a reasonable amount of threes but length is length and we're short as ********.

We really just need longer guys. Running 4 guys under 6'4" off the bench with one big isn't good enough.

The most frustrating part is you can see we can hang with good teams but then it's like the second they turn on the intensity we falter. And my god do teams feel good shooting threes against us. It's gotta be a meme around the whole league by now. Just let it fly against the Pels, ball will go in.

Agree totally we have been undersized for years now. All these guards left over from Gentry bitty ball. Draft length going forward.

[Pelicanidae]

This is an example of some of the silly things you say regarding Ingram. He's clearly put on weight since he's been in the league. Which makes this statement by you a lie.. Your commentary on this board his highly credible on all things except for Ingram.

Yeah he's put on some weight, but are you really going to tell me that he's ''filled out''?

Like, I understand that you think I'm biased when it comes to Ingram, you've said it about 40 times now, but am I really going to have to debate the fact that he's thin now? Jesus effin Christ