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Say the season ended today and the lotto went as is and we got the 4th pick who would you take? Cade will go #1 but after that I can see any of the next top 4 players falling to 4, so who do you like most out of
Evan Mobley - C
Jonathan Kuminga - F
Jalen Suggs - G
Jalen Green - SG
I’d say Green, but if we fell out of the top 4 and picked around 7-8 I’d really like Moses Moody, fits the team very well. He’s pretty good at everything from shooting to defending. He’s been getting some Joe Johnson comparisons
Last edited by HornetGuru; 01-25-2021 at 01:27 AM.
Green all day.
Slightly hesitant over Green at 4. I didn't have him clear top 5 prior to the season and we've had basically no ability to evaluate his growth because he's in G League Ignite and we haven't got really any legit footage of that iirc, let alone full sets of stats. Similar principle as Kuminga actually, who I did have bordering that top 5 area: no real footage to evaluate.
I really like Moses Moody, he's someone I'd be considering. 6'6, 205lbs. 37% shooter from 3, 80%+ FT guy, strong defender, good frame and decent athleticism. Not a stellar passer but as a guy who could play SF given his strength and wingspan I'd be pretty into it.
Corey Kispert would be a reach at #4 but if we ended up picking somewhere closer to 10 I'd be interested in that. 6'7, legitimate shooter over multiple years of a huge sample size, smart passer and solid enough ballhandler.
Jaden Springer from Tennessee as well, he's someone I like a lot. Small sample size on 3s but effective so far, thought the FT% isn't stellar or anything. Really good hands, good STL% guy which is always a nice thing to see, defends well, takes smart shots the majority of the team, pretty solid off-guard passer. Concern a bit about his lack of FTr and %age as well as his mediocre AST/TO is a real concern though.
Obviously at #4 there's always an outside chance that a Cade/Mobley/Suggs slips to us and then I'd snap whichever one it was of them up without question. Cade is the best but Mobley is a clear number 2 (would have been #1 in last year's draft by about 50 miles) and Suggs has established himself as a pretty firm #3 as of right now.
Need to do some more scouting honestly, I've fallen a bit behind where I'd like to be cause of Real Life Stuff, but I should be able to get some more stuff in through the next few weeks. I'd be able to give a more serious answer then. Right now I know my top 3, and then I have a bunch of guys who I know are in rough tiers but it's hard for me right now to say exactly where they'd go. And I'm still completely unsure on Sharife Cooper.
I'd trade Our pick, our next pick, and all the Bucks picks for Cade though. Plus a player or two. Legitimately incredible prospect.
Cade Cunningham/Usman Garuba/Scottie Barnes/Moses Moody/Corey Kispert endorser.
Eye test people: analytics people watch more basketball than you do.
I like all of them..obviously cade is number 1 but if those are the choices left, i would probably go suggs for now... i still want to see more of kuminga and green... i love mobley but unfortunately this has been a guards and small forwards league now... suggs would also fit in nicely with bi and zion.
We're still in the best player available mode. We do not have a C of the future right now completely locked down. Adams is good but he's not a superstar, and Jax is promising but he's still just promising. Mobley is by far the second best prospect in this class: if he's still on the board, you take him.Originally Posted by PaKwAn
As for the idea that this has been a guards league... arguably 4 of the top 7 players in the NBA are bigs right now (AD, Jokic, Embiid, Giannis) and both MVP frontrunners (Jokic, Embiid) are currently bigs, and a bunch of the championship teams of the last decade have been made or defined at least in part by their bigs (Bosh, Duncan, Draymond, Lebron [playing PG in a way but guarding forwards on offense, he's 6'9, he's a big lmao]).
If the best player available is a big, you take a big. Mobley is special.
My board goes:
Cade
Kuminga
Mobley
Suggs
Green
Kispert
I know this will sound really dumb but I didn't know Kuminga until I was watching some pickup games with NBA players and I was like, "Who is THAT guy?" And it was Kuminga. The way he moves is just special. Wasnt about him making shots or dunks or whatever. I am 39 years old and I have watched and coached basketball since I was 4 and I believe in Gladwell's Blink principle and when I saw him, I just knew even before I had any idea he was a top prospect. And on top of that, I think the fit of him with Zion and Ingram could be outstanding. They start games at the 2-3-4 and give you tons of length and then you finish with them at 3-4-5
@mcnamara247
Contributor
Man, if only. Cunningham and Kuminga are the dreams.
I like Kuminga a lot, but given that we've had basically no ability to see him playing in a competitive context post-HS, I'm hesitant to place him quite that high. I'd be very comfortable taking him top 10 though, even without that footage, which speaks to how impressed I was by the tape that does exist. Obviously NBA scouts will have more access to that footage than we do, so if he's showing even more progress (legit progress, not non-competitive, non-functional scrimmage stuff) then yeah I could see him top 3.
I do love mobley, but man him and zion in the frontcourt defensively will be a problem... mobley has the iq its just right now he needs to add more strength to make an impact on that end..zion right now can't really guard any spot which is a problem...
Joker and embiid (especially this year) are the true bigs i consider that can will a team to be good... giannis is not a traditional big though, dude has a speed of a 3 with handles and the length and strength of a big..i guess thats why they call him the greek freak lol... as good as ad is he has to rely on someone to set him up and needs an alpha next to him to succeed. Not denying that a big to anchor your defense is important but you also dont have to rely on a big that is a star to anchor that spot and be very good at it.. the raptors with ibaka and gasol (older at that time) was pretty effective same with draymond and iggy... i just see the lebron, kawhi, butler,kd,harden,luka and etc type to be able to carry a team easier than someone like ad,towns...
Sad that we are 15 games in and the focus is already on the offseason. Shows how disappointing the season has been thus far.
Cade is obviously about as perfect of a fit next to Zion and BI as you could possibly conceive, an vice versa. I've voiced some concerns on Cade's ability to create his own shot, but that wouldn't really be necessary with BI and Zion.
He's the elite level creator that the Pels desperately need. He and Zion would be a devastating pick and roll combo. He's an efficient shooter from 3. He's an high level defensive prospect who could surely cover the other team's best wing.
If I was David Griffin, I would be having an extremely hard time with the thought of flipping the focus. We thought it would be impossible to tank with Zion and BI on the roster; clearly that is incorrect.
I still think Griff is in an enviable position with this roster construction. He's not locked into anyone other than Zion, BI, and Adams to an extent. He can realistically sell off Zo, Bled, JJ, and maybe Hart; and in turn he could give heavy minutes to NAW and Kira (which would result in more losses) and the fanbase would be legitimately happier. Does he have the stones to do so? I'm not really sure, but I think he has to at least be considering it at this point. The thought of a Cade-BI-Zion big 3 is just far too enticing.
Outside of Cade, Mobley is the clear #2. An elite defensive prospect with enormous potential offensively that is largely underutilized by USC. The Pels wanted a shooting big in last years draft. Mobley at the very least projects as an average shooter. BI-Zion-Mobley-Adams lineups would be super interesting in year 1 and then have Mobley move into the starting center role in year 2.
Obviously, no one has really seen much of Kuminga yet, but the PG comps are enough get me excited.
Move your chips to the future Griff! There's barely attendance this year anyway. It's a get out of jail free card
What a strange thing to say when part of Mobleys entire appeal is that he's a defensive savant.
Mobley is gonna be a force defensively and offensively, with that height and length and his mobility he’ll be a terror to defend and a paint protecting monster. If people believe Hayes isn’t the answer Mobley would be amazing, BUT I want a guy who can pressure a defense himself, that’s why Green would be great, honestly any of the top 4propsects would fit this team perfectly lol
Mobley would be a great center next to Zion, can take on the tougher defensive assignment and stretch the floor a little for Zion iso
Suggs is a combo guard who can do just about everything well and is the type of player that makes your entire team better, him and Kira would be a nice backcourt combo
Kuminga, if he develops like people think he will, he’ll be a terror in the open court while also being able to create his own shot because his agility is better than smaller players and his strength is actually incredibly high
Green has the potential to be the best of the bunch, he’s too smooth, too athletic and too quick, his jumper is pretty, if it all clicks he could be that freak guard that just can’t be stopped
I find it weird that after watching Luka for the past few years create his shot basically at will against almost everyone he wants, and also guys like Kawhi post-injury doing the same, we'd still have this idea that someone who isn't lightning quick will have trouble creating their own shot.
If you have an advanced handle, high level strength, and craft, you can create your own shot. Cade has those things. There will be a handful of defenders in the league who give him trouble but those are the same defenders that give everyone trouble, honestly, which means it's not really fair to hold that against him.
He's elite elite, and depending on his development arc and how Zion improves over the next 18 months or so, it wouldn't be a surprise to me if Cade ended up being our best player (if we got him, ofc).
To compare a guy to Luka is kind of outrageous though. That's like saying we've watched Ja's outrageous speed works, so it'll work for Kira too.
It's not the "idea' that Cade will have trouble creating his own shot, but instead the evidence of it through his first 12 games on campus.
Don't get me wrong, love Cade is a prospect and I think he's number 1 in the class and the best prospect since Zion, but it's ok to critique his game. People walk on eggshells when it comes to Cade's flaws. He doesn't have the creative finishing ability that Luka has, at least not yet. He's so coordinated that it may get there, sure. If he wants to be Kawhi offensively, then he needs to be automatic from midrange, which he isn't yet.
He's shot under 40% from the field in 4 out of his past 7. Maybe he can create his own shot, but can't necessarily make it yet. Either way, I was just pointing out that I had some questions in the past, but it doesn't mean he's lower on my board. Sign me up for Cade to the Pels. The rest of his game outweighs the few questions that I and others have
I'm not sure what you mean by 'the evidence of it through his first 12 games''. He's playing on a team with basically zero offensive support and he's still shooting 49% from 2, 39% from 3, and 82% from the line on pretty solid volume. He's shown the ability to finish through and around contact, using his high level core strength to stabilise himself, and the result has been fairly impressive. It's not like he's finishing at the rim at some otherworldly level or anything but he's been demonstrably fine at it, we don't have some clear visual evidence of him struggling or anything.
It's fine to critique Cade's game, but when we do it we should try to be sure that what we're critiquing is legitimate. So if you want to say that, despite his generally good defense he does still occasionally fall asleep off-ball, then that's a fair critique. Or if you want to say that he sometimes is slow to turn it on offensively, focusing too hard on getting his teammates looks when they just can't execute and he should take over himself, again that's fair. But just claiming that he's going to have trouble getting his shot is a weird critique to make imo. Even weirder is to use inefficiency in some recent games as an explanation for why he can't be compared to Luka, when Luka has shot under 40% 4 times in 15 games so far this year and is average 28% from 3. Obviously we recognise that Luka is incredible anyway even if his shot hasn't been falling that well at times.
You also have to be conscious of the situation. His team legitimately stinks. Like, it's awful. That impacts the way he's defended compared to someone like Suggs, for example, who is on a really high level team and his flaws get covered for quite convincingly by everything else going on around him. I know it seems like we're splitting hairs since you have Cade as a clear #1 anyway, but I think it's just worth it to mention.
I’m ready to see the Gleague get going because I’m really looking forward to Kaminga and Green. Embrace the rebuild and trade players we won’t keep around. Then go get 2 of the top 6 players and really form a dynasty.
De'Andre Hunter
Hunter has actually surprised me a lot. In many ways, my pre-draft prediction about him was correct, but what I wasn't really expecting is the improvement he's had in his handle and movement skills this year. The shooting doesn't surprise me, I thought he was going to be a solid enough shooter pre-draft, and nor does the defense which is good but not great. The off-dribble movement is not a development I saw coming. Congrats to him though, it takes his ceiling from that of a solid roleplay to a legitimate starter which is a huge increase in career earnings, especially at the 3/4 position
Watched a little bit of Suggs and was instantly a fan. His game would work here
He's good! Far more of an off-guard though than a PG, which is fine if you buy Kira but if not then maybe there are other priorities.
He's very lucky as well because he's got an awesome team situation in college that really shows off what he can do at the best level.
The more I look at it I’d be incredibly happy if we land any of Suggs, green or Kuminga. All would fit the roster very well.
Can’t decide which lineup I would like better, assuming NAW is our future 6th man and not starting PG or SG.
Kira Suggs/Green Ingram Zion Adams
Or
Kira Ingram Kuminga Zion Adams
I guess it just depends does Ingrams future project better at SG or SF
Currently also considering Sharife Cooper greatly.
He's super small, 5'11, and right now his jumper has been non-existent (shooting 20% from 3) but he's so fast and he knifes into the paint every time and nobody can stop him at all. The burst, the handle, the body control is all so high level. He's shooting 48% from 2, so the overall bad FG% is just from the 3s not falling at all, he's efficient inside the arc. So how does someone at 5'11 average his kind of scoring with no jumper? Just gets to the rim every single time. Good solution.
The defense hasn't been nearly as bad as I feared as well. Someone of his height is always going to have trouble, especially at the NBA level, but the effort is there and he fights well over screens and sticks to his man. He'll likely never be a *good* NBA defender but the ability to avoid being a disaster at 5'11 is huge, and tells you a lot.
58%AST% to only 16.7%TOV tells you a lot as well. He just isn't turnover prone, and the touch and feel on his passing is extremely high level.
I'm trying to learn from some of my mistakes in past drafts. I was lower on Ja Morant than some because I was worried about his defense and I had doubts about his jumper and that overshadowed his strengths as an athlete and his strong passing for me, which was a mistake. Using that kind of framework to evaluate Cooper tells me that even despite the jumper issues (and long term, I don't think it's quite this bad lmao) he should be a clear top 10 pick in this draft. I've only seen 4 full games so I need to watch more to make a firm decision, but it's very positive.
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