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Thread: Every year it?s the same thing

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Nola3 View Post
    Nah I definitely get that. And I completely agree that this team needs to take things more personally. And obviously that winning is better than losing.

    I just don't know if it's reasonable to expect this particular team to win more than they lose. And if that becomes the expectation then we can miss all the fun things that are actually happening along the way.
    I honestly just want to see them act like they brought testes to the court sometimes. If they do that, and still lose, I won’t be upset.

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Fedupfan View Post
    I think his +/- is a little misleading for this team. The reason being is Adams rarely plays with reserves. Would you say Adams is better than Zion, since he has a higher +/-. I just don?t put much into that category. It doesn?t take into account a lot of important factors. But, I?m not saying he hasn?t been good before, but let?s not act like the guy can move on the court. He?s literally a statue.
    Zion is a generational talent and Adams is a solid roleplayer. In terms of defensive iq and consistency, this is an area where Zion has a lot of growth ahead of him while Adams has the benefit of his experience and can help Zion in his development.

    If you're saying he's a statute well it's true Adams does some of his best work standing still, setting bone crunching picks. He is mobile for his size.

    In any case if you appreciate tough basketball I'm surprised you don't seem to appreciate Adams, he's the toughest player in the league.
    Just another Kiwi basking in the reflected glory of Steven Adams....bask bask...

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    And its still in the same poor location, which is the #1 predictor of success in the restaurant industry (and a top indicator for success in this sport as well). Sure, you can find outliers of massive success in bad locations (small markets), but everything has to break right. And it hasnt for us in the the past and what has shown you, from Griffin's first year and a half and SVG's last few years of coaching, makes you believe that EVERYTHING will break right for this restaurant in a poor location, that hasnt been able to attract top chefs, waiters, and bartenders in the past?
    There is only one solution if the location is the issue. No point complaining about the team itself, they just need to sell.

    I think a team can have success in a small market. This team is in year 2 of its existence. Still too early to complain. Patience for me.
    Last edited by Stalwart385; 03-05-2021 at 08:52 PM.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by KoMikaera View Post
    Zion is a generational talent and Adams is a solid roleplayer. In terms of defensive iq and consistency, this is an area where Zion has a lot of growth ahead of him while Adams has the benefit of his experience and can help Zion in his development.

    If you're saying he's a statute well it's true Adams does some of his best work standing still, setting bone crunching picks. He is mobile for his size.

    In any case if you appreciate tough basketball I'm surprised you don't seem to appreciate Adams, he's the toughest player in the league.
    I agree that he is tough. He could be playing through an injury.

  5. #80
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    I don’t subscribe to any ideology that deals in absolutes or certainties.

    Will we never win a title? That’s possible. Very likely. Definite? I can’t abide in that absolute on sheer principle.

    Is Griff not showing me a lot to believe in him so far? Of course. I accept SVG but I was never happy about the hire. The roster before us is puzzling to say the least. But whatever. I’ll let things play out more. Even my favorite book series of all time had a really weak and shaky first couple books before it took off. Not even through year one.

  6. #81
    There is a lot of teams in the NBA that don't win a chip and NBA for all intent and purposes was built up by dynasties and large market catering. Like even Max and Super Max contract completely favors the FA market.

    The only new champions since 1999 has been Spurs, Miami, Cleveland, Raptors, and Dallas.

    When someone want to throw a tantrum on the team not being great... Well, it completely lacks the understanding of the nature of what the NBA is...It's just a business.

    It took the Saints 40+ years to figure it out.

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Nola3 View Post
    Jesus Christ this place..... if you only watch basketball to see your team hoist the Larry O'Brien at the end of every season, go be a goddam Lakers fan. If you don't enjoy watching Zion mother********ing Williamson play basketball and grow before our eyes, and watching Brandon Ingram play All-Star level games on a consistent basis, and watching Lonzo start to find his perfect role, and watching Steven Adams be the most Australian basketball player ever, and on and on then go somewhere else.

    Of course this team is frustrating and there's an incredibly minuscule chance that we ever win a title. And of course there are tons of legitimate criticisms that can credibly be lofted at all levels of this organization. And this forum does that in sublime fashion on occasion. But for people to complain like the sky has fallen and that we don't have one of the most enviable situations in the league going forward is to be intentionally and performatively morose.

    GET EXCITED. We have Zion and BI and a ton of intriguing young players and a boatload of picks. Sure, that may all turn into nothing. But to ignore the occasional brilliance this team produces is ridiculous. To act like history is doomed to repeat itself despite literally every piece of this organization having undergone significant changes is ignorant. But this is basketball and if the only thing it does is frustrate and bring you to despair, then why pay attention? This should be fun, if also periodically maddening.


    Zion is here long term yet ? Are we paying Lonzo? You don’t want a Larry O’Brien trophy? Sounds like you have accepted doom.
    Last edited by 13 - 3; 03-05-2021 at 11:36 PM.

  8. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Fedupfan View Post
    The issue is that in the NBA they keep score, and the Pels are more often than not with less points than the other team. Who cares if someone is an allstar if they only play one end of the court. I know I know, he will grow.... but, the truth is he probably won?t and what you are seeing is what you get.
    How is Monty Williams doing? Yea think about that

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Fedupfan View Post
    I think his +/- is a little misleading for this team. The reason being is Adams rarely plays with reserves. Would you say Adams is better than Zion, since he has a higher +/-. I just don?t put much into that category. It doesn?t take into account a lot of important factors. But, I?m not saying he hasn?t been good before, but let?s not act like the guy can move on the court. He?s literally a statue.
    I would also like to remind people that while Net Rating is something worth noting (if a player consistently has a -10 net rating it probably means something) it's a stat that's calculated with lineups in mind, so just like +/-, if you play a lot alongside awful players your Net Rating will suffer whereas if you spend all your time playing alongside other stars it will benefit.

    This team is actually a great example of this. There are many games where Zion is clearly playing well but his +/- will end up being relatively average, meanwhile there are other games where some players may play fairly poorly but end up with solid or even good +/- results.

    The reason for this is that Zion is often played in all-bench lineups, and asked to be the offensive motor of those lineups. This tweet is from before the last few games (March 1st) but it demonstrates the point well:



    See how Zion has played more minutes alongside 0 other starters than the rest of the starting 4 combined? 32% of Zion's minutes come with either only 1 other starter on the floor or none at all. Nobody else on the starting lineup plays more than 18% of their minutes in those circumstances.

    Now, again, those numbers might be slightly different now that there's been another few games, but in general it's example of why you can't just look at a single game BPM or a Net Rating and try to extrapolate quality of play. The test is not fair; the conditions are not being controlled for.
    Last edited by Pelicanidae; 03-06-2021 at 05:57 AM.
    Cade Cunningham/Usman Garuba/Scottie Barnes/Moses Moody/Corey Kispert endorser.

    Eye test people: analytics people watch more basketball than you do.

  10. #85
    RESPECT DA KID!!! Contributor BigChris504's Avatar
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    I really think a lot of you guy's are overreacting just a tad bit, about the state of our team year 2 after a GM change with a young core. Guy's, we've been through so much worse than this. Hit the panic button if we're 15-21 around this time 3- 4 years into this with Griff. Right now we just gotta trust the process a we bit better than I believe we're doing here.

  11. #86
    I love how the defense mechanism is to create this strawman like anybody is saying its title or everything else is a failure.

    The franchise has been around over 30 years and has had maybe 8 respectable seasons. 4 total playoff series.victories, if i am not mistaken and have been blessed to draft some historic players and still really done nothing with it.

    Now, it's clear who the younger people are because they come in saying "everything is different and this is only year 2....we have plenty of time and will be great!"

    But you will be on a message board in 20 years, or maybe make some hologram video - whatever they are doing in the 2040s, telling some other young dudes that their hopes are unfounded.

    Enjoy the bliss that comes with naivety now. But never say some old dude didn't try to warn you
    @mcnamara247

  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by BigChris504 View Post
    I really think a lot of you guy's are overreacting just a tad bit, about the state of our team year 2 after a GM change with a young core. Guy's, we've been through so much worse than this. Hit the panic button if we're 15-21 around this time 3- 4 years into this with Griff. Right now we just gotta trust the process a we bit better than I believe we're doing here.
    Yeah how many times we going to go through this? M.M. Has a point there I must admit. Look at how Phoenix rebuild is gong nicely for Monty then look at us. Yeah we should have opened our wallets and brought back Chris Paul. We could have had something real magical.
    Last edited by 13 - 3; 03-06-2021 at 09:52 AM.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    Yeah how many times we going to go through this? M.M. Has a point there I must admit. Look at how Phoenix rebuild is gong nicely for Monty then look at us. Yeah we should have opened our wallets and brought back Chris Paul. We could have had something real magical.
    The issue to me isn?t about winning. Stan is in his first year and inherited a young team. It was going to take a year or two at the very least. And it?s not so much that we didn?t bring in CP3, it?s that we brought in Anti-CP3 and aren?t committing to the youngsters as a result. We are so desperate to trade Bledsoe that we are allowing him to go on holiday on the basketball court while making a cool 18 million. And if the rumors are true that we willingly took Bled instead of Hill (a player that could have taken a backseat to the youngsters), Griff needs to remove himself. So much wrong with the way our FO has handled things from PR to roster building

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I love how the defense mechanism is to create this strawman like anybody is saying its title or everything else is a failure.

    The franchise has been around over 30 years and has had maybe 8 respectable seasons. 4 total playoff series.victories, if i am not mistaken and have been blessed to draft some historic players and still really done nothing with it.

    Now, it's clear who the younger people are because they come in saying "everything is different and this is only year 2....we have plenty of time and will be great!"

    But you will be on a message board in 20 years, or maybe make some hologram video - whatever they are doing in the 2040s, telling some other young dudes that their hopes are unfounded.

    Enjoy the bliss that comes with naivety now. But never say some old dude didn't try to warn you
    Exactly. I can tell who hasn’t been around for the Shinn days. 8/30 winning seasons isn’t exactly something that would be an easy purchase.

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I love how the defense mechanism is to create this strawman like anybody is saying its title or everything else is a failure.

    The franchise has been around over 30 years and has had maybe 8 respectable seasons. 4 total playoff series.victories, if i am not mistaken and have been blessed to draft some historic players and still really done nothing with it.

    Now, it's clear who the younger people are because they come in saying "everything is different and this is only year 2....we have plenty of time and will be great!"

    But you will be on a message board in 20 years, or maybe make some hologram video - whatever they are doing in the 2040s, telling some other young dudes that their hopes are unfounded.

    Enjoy the bliss that comes with naivety now. But never say some old dude didn't try to warn you
    I've been watching since CP3 was here. I just realize that a new GM, coach and players are a new team. The only holdover from those teams is the fans. You can only blame a losing culture on the location and/or the fans. There is nowhere else for the blame to go. Neither of those does any good for you if you claim to be a fan.

    You can eventually say Griffin failed or whoever, if we are still losing down the road, but it's too early for that.
    Last edited by Stalwart385; 03-06-2021 at 01:45 PM.

  16. #91
    It’s the same song, but with a different person’s auto tuned voice over it.
    If you Jimmer it, they will come.

  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Stalwart385 View Post
    I've been watching since CP3 was here. I just realize that a new GM, coach and players are a new team. The only holdover from those teams is the fans. You can only blame a losing culture on the location and/or the fans. There is nowhere else for the blame to go. Neither of those does any good for you if you claim to be a fan.

    You can eventually say Griffin failed or whoever, if we are still losing down the road, but it's too early for that.
    Blame the fans . See where that gets you.

  18. #93
    Free Big Panda ragincaucasian's Avatar
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    What pisses me off the most of anything is that we have some talent. Our starters, when they TRY, can compete with anyone.

    You can't manufacture effort. You are either born competitive and HATE to lose, and will do ANYTHING to not lose....or you aren't.

    Get some damn defensive toughness. Worry about that instead of fist bumping other teams players after we lose.

    Our players do not hustle on defense. It's fixable, but I'm not sure if our coach will ever get through.

  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by ragincaucasian View Post
    What pisses me off the most of anything is that we have some talent. Our starters, when they TRY, can compete with anyone.

    You can't manufacture effort. You are either born competitive and HATE to lose, and will do ANYTHING to not lose....or you aren't.

    Get some damn defensive toughness. Worry about that instead of fist bumping other teams players after we lose.

    Our players do not hustle on defense. It's fixable, but I'm not sure if our coach will ever get through.
    Preach brotha. It’s one of those things that a coach can’t teach. A person has to hate losing in order to win consistently. I’m not sure these guys have more than three of those people on this roster. After a loss, they rarely even look like they just lost. Bledsoe never even looks like they played a game.

  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Fedupfan View Post
    Exactly. I can tell who hasn’t been around for the Shinn days. 8/30 winning seasons isn’t exactly something that would be an easy purchase.
    Where is this 8/30 number coming from? Are you talking about Charlotte or New Orleans?

    This franchise has been in New Orleans for 18 years with 7 respectable seasons. It's longest playoff drought has been 3 years. So if they don't make it this year, it'll be 4 years with no playoffs, which will be the longest in the NEW ORLEANS franchise history.

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Instant gratification would be wanting this franchise to win big by 1993. It is 2021 and I have been around since 91 and I cant tell you how many times the narrative was "brightest future in the league, just wait, massive success is right around the corner"

    And then its not, but it will be next year. Or once we get x pick or y player. Meanwhile, cut to 2021 and its the same thing as people were saying in chat rooms in 1994.

    Be patient, do what you like, but as an old man who has been around the block - you will see that the glory day you are all hoping for is never coming. And you wouldnt accept that from any other business. You wouldnt spend your time or money at a restaurant that is bad and say, "See this new busboy...he is young but in a few years, he will be a great chef and this place will finally be good!"

    I just find it funny, thats all
    Exhibit A to disprove your statement: The New Orleans Saints. 1967-2005, 38 years of exactly what we've seen with the Pels, except worse. 16 years later they're one of the top franchises in the league, with a title to their name and are consistent contenders. So yes, it can happen.

  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    Where is this 8/30 number coming from? Are you talking about Charlotte or New Orleans?

    This franchise has been in New Orleans for 18 years with 7 respectable seasons. It's longest playoff drought has been 3 years. So if they don't make it this year, it'll be 4 years with no playoffs, which will be the longest in the NEW ORLEANS franchise history.
    Also keeping in mind the league's #1 franchise is on a current 8-year playoff drought and hasn't won a title in 47 years.

  23. #98
    I love this form of argument....


    My house, with black mold, a caved in roof, and no running water or electricity isnt bad because the house a block down is totally burned down and worse."

    People also use it for overpaying players, like we will see in two years. I guarantee I will read something like, "Sure, Lonzo is overpaid at 25 mil, but he only has 2 more years on his deal after this one. X and Y players deals are even worse"

    Just because there are worse things out there, that doesnt make your thing not bad.

  24. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    Where is this 8/30 number coming from? Are you talking about Charlotte or New Orleans?

    This franchise has been in New Orleans for 18 years with 7 respectable seasons. It's longest playoff drought has been 3 years. So if they don't make it this year, it'll be 4 years with no playoffs, which will be the longest in the NEW ORLEANS franchise history.
    I was going off of what Mac said in the post I responded to.

  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I love this form of argument....


    My house, with black mold, a caved in roof, and no running water or electricity isnt bad because the house a block down is totally burned down and worse."

    People also use it for overpaying players, like we will see in two years. I guarantee I will read something like, "Sure, Lonzo is overpaid at 25 mil, but he only has 2 more years on his deal after this one. X and Y players deals are even worse"

    Just because there are worse things out there, that doesnt make your thing not bad.
    Exactly! I don’t think anyone should wake up and feel like they should do less cause someone else does. Just cause another franchise is terrible, doesn’t give this one an excuse to be below average 61% (7/18) of the time. They should want to be more like Boston and LA, than Charlotte and Atlanta. But, whatever makes people feel better about watching a team that wins 1/5 games.

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