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Thread: Trade thread for all the insane trades y?all got

  1. #76
    I'm wondering, is there any trade we could make for a high level player that wouldn't also just decimate the defense?

    Like we know that we're not going to acquire any top 3 or top 5 guys. No one is trading us Lebron James or Kawhi Leonard or whatever. Nobody is giving us Nikola Jokic.

    So in that case we're looking at 2nd and 3rd tier stars, who may be potentially movable for the right price. Bradley Beal is the name that comes up a lot, but I've seen people discussing Zach Lavine, and hell, we mentioned John Collins and he's in a similar category.

    The problem is that all three of those guys are either bad defenders, or appalling defenders. Is there any potentially acquirable serious talent that can also defend a little? Doesn't have to be all-D, just good would cut it.
    Cade Cunningham/Usman Garuba/Scottie Barnes/Moses Moody/Brandon Boston Jr endorser.

    Eye test people: analytics people watch more basketball than you do.

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I'm wondering, is there any trade we could make for a high level player that wouldn't also just decimate the defense?

    Like we know that we're not going to acquire any top 3 or top 5 guys. No one is trading us Lebron James or Kawhi Leonard or whatever. Nobody is giving us Nikola Jokic.

    So in that case we're looking at 2nd and 3rd tier stars, who may be potentially movable for the right price. Bradley Beal is the name that comes up a lot, but I've seen people discussing Zach Lavine, and hell, we mentioned John Collins and he's in a similar category.

    The problem is that all three of those guys are either bad defenders, or appalling defenders. Is there any potentially acquirable serious talent that can also defend a little? Doesn't have to be all-D, just good would cut it.
    Jrue Holiday, o wait.....

  3. #78
    I'm beginning to think that we should shift our focus in Lonzo trade partners from teams with cap room to contenders w/o cap room for the foreseeable future. Please, if you are more CBA versed than I, feel free to correct me, but I believe that any team trading for Lonzo would be able to go over the tax line in order to extend him via his bird rights. Thus, teams that are capped but still need to add additional talent (like the Bucks situation) do not have much means of doing so outside of trading for players in Lonzo's salary situation.

    The players who may be available at the deadline who fit this narrative are Lonzo, Lauri Markkanen, and John Collins. Assuming that Collins will not be moved, that leaves Lonzo and Lauri as the only real targets.

    There's obviously more than 2 teams who will be looking to add a player at the deadline.

    I know we like to point out Lonzo's flaws, and rightfully so, but he is considerable better than guys playing rotation minutes on contenders. I think it is likely that the Bucks, Clippers, Mavericks, Warriors, 76ers, and Nets are in on any Lonzo discussions. At that point Lonzo could still return positive value.

    From the Bucks, Clippers, and Nets perspectives, they now have no way to add any sort of core piece via trade because they are so asset deprived following their respective trades for stars/superstars. They are also cap strapped to the point where the only players available to them in FA are ring chasers. Lonzo (and Lauri) is by far the most talented player that these teams have the ability to add this season.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I'm wondering, is there any trade we could make for a high level player that wouldn't also just decimate the defense?

    Like we know that we're not going to acquire any top 3 or top 5 guys. No one is trading us Lebron James or Kawhi Leonard or whatever. Nobody is giving us Nikola Jokic.

    So in that case we're looking at 2nd and 3rd tier stars, who may be potentially movable for the right price. Bradley Beal is the name that comes up a lot, but I've seen people discussing Zach Lavine, and hell, we mentioned John Collins and he's in a similar category.

    The problem is that all three of those guys are either bad defenders, or appalling defenders. Is there any potentially acquirable serious talent that can also defend a little? Doesn't have to be all-D, just good would cut it.
    I don't actually think Beal is a bad defender (I also don't think he's good), but is instead in a situation in which the rest of his team is so bad defensively that it drives is numbers down even further. I also think it's going to hurt your defensive effort when you have to be the focal point offensively on every single possession.

    That being said, the only guys I think may become available at some point this season that would not absolutely toast the defense: Victor Oladipo, Pascal Siakam, CJ Mccollum

    If we wait one more season, I think Jamal Murray, Paul George, DeAaron Fox, KAT, Kris Middleton could become available as well. Most of those guys would obviously take a kings ransom though

  5. #80
    I do, however, believe that Bradley Beal is and has been the target for a while now. The roster I basically set up to the point where he can be inserted seamlessly

  6. #81
    What would that even look like? Something like this?:

    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y542b6zm

    Plus 3 first rounders and pick swaps?

  7. #82
    A Beal-Pels trade would likely look very similar to the Harden trade we just saw but with a few less picks/swaps. I don't think that Wizards would be particularly interested in adding Bledsoe or JJ, so those guys would be sent to teams who would have more use for them. The Wiz may have some interest in Lonzo for the sole purpose of drumming up some interest in their team post-Beal.

    The Wiz have all the incentive in the world to be as bad as possible this year if/when they move Beal. Thus, they're not going to want to take on many good players.

    That being said, a trade I like:

    Pels: Beal

    Wiz: Dinwiddie, Langford, Melli, 3 Pels 1sts (some combo of Pels, LA, Mil), and 2 swaps

    Celtics: JJ Redick

    Nets: Lonzo

  8. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    That being said, the only guys I think may become available at some point this season that would not absolutely toast the defense: Victor Oladipo, Pascal Siakam, CJ Mccollum

    If we wait one more season, I think Jamal Murray, Paul George, DeAaron Fox, KAT, Kris Middleton could become available as well. Most of those guys would obviously take a kings ransom though
    I'd be stunned if PG13, D Fox, or Middleton became available this season; slightly less shocked next but still fairly surprised.

    No reason to suspect Toronto would trade Pascal this season, tbh, not really sure where the logic in thinking they would comes from.

    McCollum is more understandable given that Nurkic just got injured again and they're going to be almost forced into a rebuild unless they just want a very slow, inevitable, expensive decline; the problem is that he is a legitimately pretty bad defender tbh. Like, really not great.

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    A Beal-Pels trade would likely look very similar to the Harden trade we just saw but with a few less picks/swaps. I don't think that Wizards would be particularly interested in adding Bledsoe or JJ, so those guys would be sent to teams who would have more use for them. The Wiz may have some interest in Lonzo for the sole purpose of drumming up some interest in their team post-Beal.

    The Wiz have all the incentive in the world to be as bad as possible this year if/when they move Beal. Thus, they're not going to want to take on many good players.

    That being said, a trade I like:

    Pels: Beal

    Wiz: Dinwiddie, Langford, Melli, 3 Pels 1sts (some combo of Pels, LA, Mil), and 2 swaps

    Celtics: JJ Redick

    Nets: Lonzo
    In this equation, Bradley Beal is basically worth Lonzo, Redick, and 5 picks lmao

    No thanks.

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    In this equation, Bradley Beal is basically worth Lonzo, Redick, and 5 picks lmao

    No thanks.
    I honestly don't see why you think that's not fairly acceptable value, considering what guys like Harden, AD, and even Jrue fetched for teams. Not to mention Lonzo and JJ aren't worth a hell of a lot right now, so basically the equation is more like, Bradley Beal is worth Filler + 5 Picks, which isn't some unheard of precedent. And if you're going to tell me Beal is one of the absolute worst defenders in the NBA as justification, which isn't true, would he still even tank our lineups defensively, as a guard? He's not a obvious exploitable mismatch in any sense, and I even think he's a plus man defender for his position, the question is just effort, which I think with less offensive usage is correctable. Not saying he'll be a world beater on this team, but he's not single-handedly going to destroy our defensive identity.

  11. #86
    Yea I don't think that is unreasonably in any sense. The Pels don't have a centerpiece for a trade, so they have to make up for that with additional draft pick compensation, similar to what the Bucks did for Jrue.

    I see Beal's value as being slightly higher than Jrue's since Beal is younger and offense is more valuable than defense. Beal's value obviously isn't Harden level high, so he's not worth 8 picks; but I definitely think 3 picks and two swaps is reasonable, especially if two of those picks are the least valuable in the Pels chest in the 2022 Lakers pick and the 2024 Bucks pick

  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Funcrusher View Post
    I honestly don't see why you think that's not fairly acceptable value, considering what guys like Harden, AD, and even Jrue fetched for teams. Not to mention Lonzo and JJ aren't worth a hell of a lot right now, so basically the equation is more like, Bradley Beal is worth Filler + 5 Picks, which isn't some unheard of precedent. And if you're going to tell me Beal is one of the absolute worst defenders in the NBA as justification, which isn't true, would he still even tank our lineups defensively, as a guard? He's not a obvious exploitable mismatch in any sense, and I even think he's a plus man defender for his position, the question is just effort, which I think with less offensive usage is correctable. Not saying he'll be a world beater on this team, but he's not single-handedly going to destroy our defensive identity.
    The Jrue example is not really fair to bring up because the Bucks didn't make that trade for Jrue in a vacuum, they made it with the knowledge that they were forced into making a move to satisfy Giannis, who's extension was sitting there not getting signed and who had made it fairly clear that he wanted to stay but needed them to make moves if he was going to commit to it. It's kind of like when the Clippers overpaid for PG13: yes, they paid too much, but they were guaranteeing Kawhi as well in the deal, which makes it more easy to stomach.

    By comparison, we'd be shifting comparable assets to something like the AD or the PG13 trades in terms of picks despite getting back a player that I hope we all understand isn't nearly as good as those two are, even given PG's arguable postseason issues.

    LA was willing to cash in everything for AD because they believed securing him would guarantee them a title, and they were right.
    Clippers were willing to cash in everything on PG13 because they knew securing him would gain them Kawhi and make them contenders for years to come.
    Nets were willing to cash in everything for Harden because they believe doing so gives them title equity; we will see if that was worth it in the season or two to come.

    Do you believe Beal turns you into a title contender? If so, then cashing in comparable assets is maybe something I can understand. I do not think we are ''one Beal away'' from rings, so to me, it's not worth it to spent 5+ picks on him plus players, which would probably end up being more than just Redick and Lonzo in any case as well.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    The Jrue example is not really fair to bring up because the Bucks didn't make that trade for Jrue in a vacuum, they made it with the knowledge that they were forced into making a move to satisfy Giannis, who's extension was sitting there not getting signed and who had made it fairly clear that he wanted to stay but needed them to make moves if he was going to commit to it. It's kind of like when the Clippers overpaid for PG13: yes, they paid too much, but they were guaranteeing Kawhi as well in the deal, which makes it more easy to stomach.

    By comparison, we'd be shifting comparable assets to something like the AD or the PG13 trades in terms of picks despite getting back a player that I hope we all understand isn't nearly as good as those two are, even given PG's arguable postseason issues.

    LA was willing to cash in everything for AD because they believed securing him would guarantee them a title, and they were right.
    Clippers were willing to cash in everything on PG13 because they knew securing him would gain them Kawhi and make them contenders for years to come.
    Nets were willing to cash in everything for Harden because they believe doing so gives them title equity; we will see if that was worth it in the season or two to come.

    Do you believe Beal turns you into a title contender? If so, then cashing in comparable assets is maybe something I can understand. I do not think we are ''one Beal away'' from rings, so to me, it's not worth it to spent 5+ picks on him plus players, which would probably end up being more than just Redick and Lonzo in any case as well.
    Fair enough. I get it, but I think the question of whether or not Beal would turn us into contenders is kinda beside the point. It obviously wouldn't, but I see it more as an investment in winning for our two cornerstones. I think we as fans consider this a rebuild, and don't want to rush into anything, but I don't think the players feel the same way. I remember hearing a report in the offseason after BI resigned, that he told Griff he didn't want to miss the playoffs again. I'm sure Zion feels the same way, these are competitive guys who want to win right now, and that is not to say we should cash in all our assets on Beal, but to me I think a deal like that is an acceptable overpay, in the name of building "a winning culture." And considering we have so many picks at our disposal I don't think giving up what was suggested handicaps us in the future.

    But maybe that's just me. I kind of reject the idea that we're either looking to rebuild or contend for a title. What we haven't done in years is simply be good, and consistently, and that matters as far as track record moreso than winning a chip once or twice in between years of non-competitiveness. The latter seems to be the trajectory all the teams you mentioned are looking at.
    Last edited by Funcrusher; 01-15-2021 at 03:39 PM.

  14. #89
    I think it's perfectly possible for us to make a playoff run this season without trading Bradley Beal. It would need people to play well and potentially for us to make a trade involving someone like Lonzo or JJ or potentially both, but I don't think it would have to be a trade on the scale of a top 20 player. I do understand that we want to try and install a winning culture as soon as possible, but to me the best way to do that is to build a team that wins now and in the future; that could be accomplished by trading a million assets to get a star, but it can also be accomplished by making smart roster moves around the high quality pieces you already have and moving forward that way, and the road you pick I think is reflective of your team building philosophy in some way.

    Griff has said about a million times that he wants to build a sustainable winner. To me, that indicates that he's not just going to throw everything at the first big name that comes up. Hell, we know he won't do that because the Pels were never seriously linked to a Harden deal, even just as a red herring.

    Could Beal help this team in some ways? Yeah, I think so. Do I think he helps us enough to justify an AD/PG13/Harden sized payout? Nope, not at all. That's my position.

  15. #90
    Our priority I’m sure is to trade Bledsoe. We have two very talented young guards that have to bide their time because we have a guard on a sizable contract that we have to put in the shopping window. If we can find an expiring (no matter how appalling the player) we should make that move. If we can find someone of similar caliber in a position of need (backup PF/SF) you make that deal. Unfortunately, I don’t think any of those options will fall to us unless we give up assets (and we shouldn’t). And no, I am not insinuating that Bledsoe is a poor player. He is just not the right fit and he isn’t in our future plans.

  16. #91
    The Franchise
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    Do we need Beal, I don’t think so and I’m ok building through the draft but if he becomes available I think you should grab him. If you can keep the youth too that would be the cherry on top. NAW, Kira, Hart Didi, and Hayes could be a solid bench with one of the guards starting. I would think JJ, Bledsoe, and Lonzo are all worth at least late firsts to use.

    Getting Adams I think proves he’s not completely a rebuild through the draft kinda guy, so I think Beal is a real possibility.
    Last edited by tdcreator; 01-15-2021 at 09:59 PM.

  17. #92
    Pacers: JJ Redick, Daniel Theis, & Grant Williams

    Celtics: Andre Drummond, Lonzo Ball

    Cavs: Kemba Walker

    Pels: Myles Turner

  18. #93
    Here is my suggestion:

    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y4axsjsb

    T'Wolves Get: Eric Bledsoe
    Pelicans Get: Ricky Rubio

    then....

    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y2uyuqbw

    Clippers Get: Lonzo Ball
    Bulls Get: Luke Kennard; Nicolo Melli; Pels 22 First Round (Top 10 Protected)
    Pelicans Get: Lou Williams; Lauri Markkanen

    THREE DEEP

    PG: NAW; Rubio; Kira
    SG: Williams; Redick; NAW
    SF: BI; Hart; Zion
    PF: Zion; Markkanen; Gabriel
    C: Adams; JAX; Markkanen
    Say Cannon Hinnant's Name.

  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell View Post
    Pacers: JJ Redick, Daniel Theis, & Grant Williams

    Celtics: Andre Drummond, Lonzo Ball

    Cavs: Kemba Walker

    Pels: Myles Turner
    Why on God's Green Earth would Indiana do that. Turner is finally starting to show improvement, they're not going to move him for scraps.

  20. #95
    Lonzo + JJ for Otto Porter

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    Lonzo + JJ for Otto Porter
    Taking back too much salary

    You'd have to throw in Melli and I still think that puts us into tax

  22. #97
    Bulls: Eric Bledsoe & Mo Bamba (they need a true point guard & Coby White isn?t. They need a backup center)

    Magic: Lonzo Ball & JJ Redick (they need a point guard now that Fultz is out and a shooting guard to replace Ross)

    Pelicans: Terence Ross, Thad Young, & Coby White

    We get a 2 guard on a good contract. The veteran 4 we need. And a young combo guard that could be a helluva 6th man.

  23. #98


    Regardless of whether you actually would want to trade for Draymond or not - I'm fine without it, not really something I'm too worked up about right now - you can't deny that he's exactly the kind of vet you want helping coach your youth. What a mentor for Wiseman, honestly.

  24. #99
    1. We , or anyone else, need an ELITE guard to win in today's NBA. (and yes labron plays guard realistically)

    2. We need an elite scorer from the arc added to our starting unit.

    3. The whole 'waiting' thing is flawed because zion may or may not even be worth max money when his turn comes around.


    make the trade now

  25. #100
    The Franchise
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    I’m guessing we’ll be waiting till February 6 when signed players can be traded but I’m ready for some tweets. We can trade most of our players anytime.

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