Somebody made a versus highlight video. Cool concept. Who ya got?
If you say Ingram you are not being objective and suffer from optimism bias. Telling you now.
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Somebody made a versus highlight video. Cool concept. Who ya got?
If you say Ingram you are not being objective and suffer from optimism bias. Telling you now.
This isn't Ingram v Tatum. False advertising
*sigh* *facepalm*
I really wish this board would grow and gain new members.
Tatum is already a top 10-15 player. Ingram top 30ish?
I think Ingram has taken a huge leap from where he was in LA and he is now a clear top 40 player imo.
Tatum is better than him everyday and twice on Sundays. It's not a debate.
Basketball.
Color me surprised this would be your highly ridiculous take. No, I am frankly shocked. Flabbergasted honestly.Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
However, the good news is you do not suffer from optimism bias.
But for those still at the back, this thread was mainly about the video itself. Who had the better highlights from last year. This shouldn't have been this hard.
How is it a ridiculous take? lmao
Ingram good, Tatum better is not ridiculous anymore than KAT good, AD better is.
Actually if u look at their game and their stats Tatum is not much better than Ingram offensively, if at all...
Where Tatum makes a big gap is defense. Ingram is bad/awful on that side of the ball and Tatum is elite level defender..
Statistically on offense, Ingram is better. Had a better TS%, gets to the line more often, and is a superior playmaker.
Defensively, I don't think the gap is wide there either. Especially when Tatum is flanked by Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart. And especially since Ingram still has a good bit of upside still filling out his body. Ingram was asked to deal with legit 4s last year. Tatum did not.
So yeah to suggest there is some wide gap between them is not only highly debatable, but ridiculous.
Last edited by luckyman; 12-08-2020 at 11:53 AM.
Yeah completely disagree.
Ingram took a huge leap as a shooter, but entirely on the catch and shoot: he was a sub 30% pullup shooter. Anyone who watches modern NBA basketball can tell you that pull-up shooting is vastly more impactful when it comes to warping defenses and beating coverages than just being a C&S guy, and Tatum was a near 40% pullup threat last year.
Secondly, if you don't think the gap is that wide defensively then I just don't think it's worth us talking any longer. Tatum had an argument for all-Defense last season, whereas Ingram is still a clear net-negative on that end of the floor. Tatum is probably the best nail defender in the league right now: if not, he's clearly top 3.
So yeah, if you just stare at raw box score numbers you might think they're actually very close, but in reality Tatum is the far superior defender and pull up shooting > being a spot up guy.
Ingram does get the edge on playmaking, that is absolutely true, and he was also a slightly better finisher at the rim (65% vs 61% iirc) but yeah, it's not really that close looking at the big picture.
Ah must be my optimism bias again.
So pull up shooting trumps playmaking by a wide margin. Gotcha. Big picture...except some big picture stuff to ignore.
And who in their right minds regards Ingram as a C&S guy? Why even bring up that red herring? I can tell you a pull up shooter does indeed NOT warp defenses better than a player that can attack and finish at the rim, attack and play make for others, or attack and get to the line and shoot a higher FT%.
And Tatum is awesome at help and recover. Gotcha. Which means he is leaps and bounds better than Ingram as a total player.
You really should just really avoid BI threads altogether. My advice. It didn't go very well last off season. Probably wont again this offseason. I swear.
Only thing that really matters is they?re close enough to even compare.
No ones making Jordan Vs Steve Smith versus if you catch the drift.
Ingram is where he needs to be and I?m happy to cheer him as a Pelican.
Yep, I was right again: not worth the conversation.You really should just really avoid BI threads altogether. My advice. It didn't go very well last off season. Probably wont again this offseason. I swear.Call me back when you want to have a discussion instead of just dirt-slinging. Everyone has been wrong at some point: I imagine that's something you're intimately familiar with. Either have the conversation at hand or don't bother.
Last edited by AusPel; 12-08-2020 at 01:26 PM.
This is the conversation at hand very much. Thats not "dirt slinging". It's pointing out a serious negative BI bias you can't seem to let go. But if you want to concentrate on those quotes, and disregard the other 90% I posted there, that tells me all I need to know.Yep, I was right again: not worth the conversation.
I could say a lot about the rest of that nonsense, but I'll just ignore as I usually have to do on here.
I'd expect Ingram to make a major leap in pull up shooting from 3 this season based on everything I've heard. This is his first offseason in two seasons, and his dribble J was one of his main points of improvement.
Tatum and BI are miles away from each other defensively.
If I needed one bucket, I'd choose BI. If I needed a stop, I'd choose Ingram. But the gap between Ingram and Tatum offensively is much smaller than the gap between Ingram and Tatum defensively, at the moment.
This is why when people say stuff, you have to go check yourself. Overall on pull ups on eFG%, Ingram was 40%. Tatum was 51%.
The difference was on 3 point pull ups. Ingram there was 28% and Tatum was 40%.
But Ingram hardly took any pull up 3 pointers. Ingram was only 19 - 68. Tatum was 124 - 307, which is a whopping 4.5 times Ingram's attempts.
Otherwise, Ingram shot 39% on 360 pull ups and Tatum 40% on 557 pull ups.
And again, playmaking and shooting at the rim trumps iso 3 point shots. One has much more optionality and the other has basically very little. So I wont let this whole debate boil down to pull up shooting. But it's just me being wrong again.
Last edited by luckyman; 12-08-2020 at 02:23 PM.
Contributor
Ingram has to become at least average on defense.
Hopefully we will see some progression this year. The way the Pelicans played/emphasized defense was not on the same wavelength as the Celtics. So, it is tough to compare. Overall, I would still take Tatum over Ingram at this point in their career, but I do not think it is a done deal.
Ingram actually defended more often near the rim and defended slightly better than Tatum near the rim.
Which is somewhat surprising given his weight, but not so much given his wingspan.
Why is Ingram getting compared to Tatum anyways? Wouldn't want to compare him to Jaylen Brown?
Seems he typically is compared to Tatum. Also, the fact that Tatum was rumored to be the target if the Pels were to trade AD to Boston compared to BI being the target with the Lakers. Seems like a reasonable comparison.
It's because of profile and both being potential AD trade targets.
Ingram's clearly better than Brown.
Because Ingram and Tatum are closer in talent
I'd take Tatum over Ingram based on current careers, but I believe Ingram has a higher ceiling
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