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Thread: Welcome Kira Lewis {merged}

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Impose View Post
    Excluding his play in the bubble, Lonzo was on a very positive trajectory last season. I can see the reasoning to be decisive and say 'well, we're not sold, and don't want to match a stupid offer, lets move on now'. But shooting is one of those things that can get better with age. If it was his awareness, or lack of defense, or his attitude, then maybe. But Lonzo's issue was his horrid shooting form, and that is being fixed, and just needs reps... Lots and lots of reps. Vincent is one guy we kept on, and he got credited with the work on Lonzo's shooting form, I think the team is going to trust that process
    That's not the crux of the problem at all. It's his inability to run a half court offense like a starting lead guard should

    Thinks like driving, playmaking, getting to the rack, getting to the line

    Things it looks like Kira will be able to do
    Last edited by AusPel; 11-19-2020 at 09:31 PM.

  2. #27
    I think Lonzo in an off ball role is kind of intriguing. His decision making in the half court is disastrously suspect at times but he can pass really well and he can keep improving that 3 pointer without the added pressure of trying to lead the team. He and Kira could be absolutely dynamite in transition and Lonzo might even get more open drives to the basket. It can work. But will it?

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    I think Lonzo in an off ball role is kind of intriguing. His decision making in the half court is disastrously suspect at times but he can pass really well and he can keep improving that 3 pointer without the added pressure of trying to lead the team. He and Kira could be absolutely dynamite in transition and Lonzo might even get more open drives to the basket. It can work. But will it?
    Question is, would Lonzo be good enough to be a starting 2 guard on a championship team? You don't get many open lanes at all in the playoffs

    Right now, the only thing he's doing well is catch and shoot threes. It's probably not enough
    Last edited by AusPel; 11-19-2020 at 09:39 PM.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Impose View Post
    Excluding his play in the bubble, Lonzo was on a very positive trajectory last season. I can see the reasoning to be decisive and say 'well, we're not sold, and don't want to match a stupid offer, lets move on now'. But shooting is one of those things that can get better with age. If it was his awareness, or lack of defense, or his attitude, then maybe. But Lonzo's issue was his horrid shooting form, and that is being fixed
    Lonzo had and has a lot more problems than just his poor shooting.

    We're talking about a point guard who doesn't drive because he can't finish at the rim whatsoever and can't shoot free throws either. The impact this has on halfcourt offense is astronomical: he simply cannot be your point guard in the half court. He can't scramble defenses, he can't force rotations, and without any ability to do that, he can't open up new passing windows or create opportunities for teammates. He's got really high level vision so he can find windows and opportunities that are already there, but he can't make anything new. Another part of that is his handle, which is just not particularly impressive for a point guard, which means that he can't shake or lose defenders. If you can't finish at the rim in the first place, the last thing you need is people sticking with you when you drive but for Lonzo, that's the norm because he can't get guys off him.

    Of course, as I say, the end result of this lack of handle, lack of finishing skill, and lack of free throw shooting ability is that he just doesn't drive very much, and therefore doesn't collapse defenses. Which, for a point guard, is disastrous. And that's been a combination of problems he's had all three years in the NBA so far.

    Secondly, his defense has historically been pretty good off-ball (which is what really matters, on-ball defense is cool but it's not nearly as important as team defense) but it took a huge step back last season. Now, you may think that it will recover in a better context, which is perfectly possible, but this idea that it's not an issue at this point is incorrect: it needs to be better.

    Thirdly is a decision making issue that people like Auspel have mentioned above. He makes awful choices regularly and it's appalling to watch. On the rare occasions he does drive, he drives into traffic and takes shots he has no ability to hit: he'll refuse obvious high quality passes in order to force bad step backs (which, while he has improved as a shooter, are still bad shots for him), or he'll turn down driving lanes in order to make extra passes out of fear of driving.

    So yeah, it's not just ''oh he can't shoot but he's getting better at that''. There are tons of key problems in his play that just, frankly, suck really badly and that aren't really improving in any tangible sense. There's a reason that a lot of people, including SVG, seem to think that Lonzo's best used as a 3&D wing in the halfcourt offense: because he cannot be a point guard in that context.
    Last edited by Pelicanidae; 11-19-2020 at 10:27 PM.
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  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Question is, would Lonzo be good enough to be a starting 2 guard on a championship team? You don't get many open lanes at all in the playoffs

    Right now, the only thing he's doing well is catch and shoot threes. It's probably not enough
    As young as he is I think it is unfair to write him off. If he stagnates this season and doesn?t improve, I think it is time to move on. Lonzo will work hard to improve. That much we do know.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    As young as he is I think it is unfair to write him off. If he stagnates this season and doesn?t improve, I think it is time to move on. Lonzo will work hard to improve. That much we do know.
    Sure but the issue is that we don't have time. The season starts in December, the trade deadline is still February, and we have so much to work out with a largely new roster, new coach, new circumstances due to COVID, etc. How much do you trust what you see in the December/January games as 'real' improvement or, vice versa, if he's even worse how much do you believe that? It's really hard to say, and you don't have long to figure it out.

    I think one thing you have to try and do is figure out how much improvement would be reasonable for a player to make (That is, not assuming they suddenly add a ton of new skills in one not-even-offseason) and then ask whether or not that's likely to make them worth the cost they'll have. For Lonzo, I don't think it's reasonable to ask him to improve his FT% 20%, double his driving rate, his finishing at the rim 10%, his FTr 10-15%, get back to his old team defense level, and improve his handle. That's what he'd have to do to make him worth $15 or $20m a year, which is the offer he's likely to get from somewhere, and I just don't see that as being likely. It's a leap as large, or larger than the one Ingram took last year, and that leap in itself was historical in size.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Sure but the issue is that we don't have time. The season starts in December, the trade deadline is still February, and we have so much to work out with a largely new roster, new coach, new circumstances due to COVID, etc. How much do you trust what you see in the December/January games as 'real' improvement or, vice versa, if he's even worse how much do you believe that? It's really hard to say, and you don't have long to figure it out.

    I think one thing you have to try and do is figure out how much improvement would be reasonable for a player to make (That is, not assuming they suddenly add a ton of new skills in one not-even-offseason) and then ask whether or not that's likely to make them worth the cost they'll have. For Lonzo, I don't think it's reasonable to ask him to improve his FT% 20%, double his driving rate, his finishing at the rim 10%, his FTr 10-15%, get back to his old team defense level, and improve his handle. That's what he'd have to do to make him worth $15 or $20m a year, which is the offer he's likely to get from somewhere, and I just don't see that as being likely. It's a leap as large, or larger than the one Ingram took last year, and that leap in itself was historical in size.
    That is for Stan and co to decide really. I?m not going to write him off before I see him in action under Stan. If we trade him, fine. I just don?t think his skillset is that ill suited as a secondary ball handler. We?ll see

  8. #33
    We'll have to agree to disagree on the 'can't run an offense, can't create looks for others' sentiment, I think thats waaaay exaggerated.

    The more I think about it the more I can see an angle where it's actually Bledsoe to mentor Kira and we're moving on from Lonzo and maybe Hill as well. It's not my preferred route but Bledsoe would expire when we're looking to resign Zion and maybe the line of thinking that 'we have a solid 3rd option locked in now' is prevailing.

    The crappy thing about all these scenarios is that the vast majority of teams are set at PG so there's very few teams to actually trade Bledsoe to because of his contract. Hill and Lonzo, however, can play 3&D combo guard positions and expire soon so there'd be a much bigger market for them.

    Can anyone else see Bledsoe staying on as starting PG with the idea to have Kira ready to start before Bledsoe expires?

  9. #34
    I mean sure, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I think it's hard to have a conversation at all if our frames of reference are so distant that you think Lonzo Ball is actually a capable half-court offensive initiator right now. He just so clearly isn't that the mindset you'd have to have to think that he is, is incomprehensible to me.

  10. #35
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Taker597's Avatar
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    Frankly, I'm about to be rude about Ball, because I'm sick of it.

    Lomzo Ball is a product of hype and highlight videos against much lesser competition. He isn't a facilitator, technical shooter, or really any ability to initiate or command an offense. He's not even a poor man's Ricky Rubio, and I frankly feel like Rubio isn't close to a championship caliber player.

    What is Ball good at particularly? Throwing full court lobs and catching a good steak rhythm shooting? Dude is a bust for a 3rd overall. His shooting isn't good enough to be a point much less a SG.

    The only thing that's keeping him glued to NOLA is because nobody wants him. He isn't a negative player, but he's essentially a 0 player. Worthless.
    Last edited by Taker597; 11-19-2020 at 11:59 PM.

  11. #36
    The Lonzo hate sounds very similar to the Jrue hate his first few seasons here. Get used to it. He'll be here a while. SVG went out of his way to singlethe guy out and make very personal comparisons of his work ethic to JJ. If you can't read between those lines......I don't....I'm too tired to connect something colorful there but you're blinded by bias.

    It's also ironic that most of the flack hurled at him was all Gentry's fault just a few months ago.....and...low and behold....now it's all magically on Zo. The only thing consistent is the negativity.
    Last edited by msusousaphone; 11-20-2020 at 12:50 AM.
    PSA: Not a single elite poster or pels "insider" predicted the Cousins trade, Jrue to the Bucks, or the Adams trade. They didn't know about the Adams extension before Woj and Shams reported it and no one connected us to Kira Lewis in the draft.

    Because there ARE no elite posters/insiders. We're all equals in Pels Fandom.

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  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    The Lonzo hate sounds very similar to the Jrue hate his first few seasons here. Get used to it. He'll be here a while. SVG went out of his way to singlethe guy out and make very personal comparisons of his work ethic to JJ. If you can't read between those lines......I don't....I'm too tired to connect something colorful there but you're blinded by bias.

    It's also ironic that most of the flack hurled at him was all Gentry's fault just a few months ago.....and...low and behold....now it's all magically on Zo. The only thing consistent is the negativity.
    Firstly, I think the claim that most of the flack hurled at him was Gentry's fault is just completely inaccurate. If you go back months and months ago, you can find people such as myself, or from outside of the board people like Shamit, arguing that Lonzo was just not good enough at all, and that his lack of driving completely neutered his passing skill and offensive impact, and that he either needed to desperately improve or get moved. The idea that nobody blamed Lonzo until Gentry got fired is simply not true.

    Secondly, the difference is that when Jrue came here he had already been an allstar, had already run a decent offense, had already been an efficient scorer and distributor for a playoff team, etc. Hate got aimed at him and it was possible to counter it by pointing out that actually, Jrue was a good player who had already had success elsewhere and was just going through a rough patch. Lonzo, on the other hand, has no such historical success to counter critique. He has never been a good driver, finisher, half-court creator, etc, at the NBA level. That's been a set of flaws that was there in his first game, and it's a set of flaws that's there 3 years in.

    You can argue, if you want, that SVG likes him and that he'll therefore stay. That's fine. But acting like that somehow dispels the very real criticisms of Lonzo is just absurdity on its face.

  13. #38
    I'll never understand the Stockholm syndrome fans develop with hyped players that clearly don't pan out. We keep Lonzo and entertain the kind of contract he and Klutch inevitably want, we are going to regret it, plain and simple.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by smcgull View Post
    PG---Lonzo
    SG---Kira
    SF---Brandon
    PF---Zion
    C----Jaxson

    If not this season, maybe next.
    I think that's a little ambitious with regards to JAX forecast and Lewis hasn't even engaged in his first NBA practice.
    Say Cannon Hinnant's Name.

  15. #40
    It’s not that I hate Lonzo, I just don’t want to have him be the 2nd highest paid player on the team when he’s not close to being the 2nd best player on the team. I much rather have NAW or Hart be my starting 2 guard long term than an overpaid point guard that isn’t really good at running the point. But with all the draft capital we will have we likely don’t have our long term starter there yet. He’s going to have to fix his game to an extent to be a better point guard and he can do that on some terrible team cause we don’t have the time or money to see if it can happen.

  16. #41
    If we resign Lonzo for $15 to $20M, then we will have another use for our future draft picks: packaging them with Lonzo to get someone to take his contract.

  17. #42
    I think we got definite 4 pieces of our core now

    Kira
    ?
    BI
    Zion
    ?

    Hart

    Possible that BI is the 2 in our core and we go get a 6'8 wing

  18. #43
    I guess no one cares about Lonzos connection with Zion huh

  19. #44
    Or his connection with Brandon and hart

  20. #45
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Like if we trade Lonzo Zion is going to pout and cry and not wanna play with us anymore?

    Assuming health isn't an issue, Zion is going to have a very long career. He's going to form all kinds of relationships with NBA players who aren't even in high school right now.

    He'll get over it.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Algiersraised View Post
    Or his connection with Brandon and hart
    So he has to stay with the Pelicans because of "connections"?

  22. #47
    i like the concept of uniting Lonzo with his brother (hornets), and gain an asset(wing or center)

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    So he has to stay with the Pelicans because of "connections"?
    BI is rather fond of Lonzo it seems

    Otherwise he'd be getting shopped a lot harder

  24. #49
    Chemistry wins championship why mess up the stuff they already been building a 66 guard with a 3pt shot very fast and throws perfect passes with the possibility in becoming an elite defender for who lol he can’t be perfect we have players to attack the rack

  25. #50
    Imagine if the warriors let curry go cause of injuries let the guy get his time in he isn’t even 25 lol and does everything except for attack the rim

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