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Thread: 2021 NBA Draft Discussion

  1. #51
    Great slate of college games today in terms of just high level prospects.

    Cade - Just finishing up now versus Marquette. Posted 13/6/2 with 3 steals and a block on 6/11 shooting. Some really special flashes as a help defender going on as well, as well as some gorgeous passes that resulted in nothing: a touch pass to save a ball going out of bounds that started a fast break being a particular highlight that was ruined by a whistle called for an off-ball foul.

    Day'Ron Sharpe on UNC - Continued showing his versatility as a modern big, 4/7/4 with 2 steals and 4 blocks in 19 minutes, just filling up the stat sheet. There are concerns about Sharpe, but the things he's good at he's really good at. Looking like a top 20 pick so far this year, even with the low scoring rate: obviously a ton of games to go.

    Ziaire Williams continuing to pop as a shooting prospect with incredible touch and space creation, as well as passing upside, but I'm a bit concerned over his inability to really get by anyone or create pressure on the inside. Hasn't been really getting FTs at all, and has only taken something like 3 shots at the rim across the first few games. Something to watch.

    Evan Mobley with 17/11 and 2 blocks on 8/12 shooting. 0 assists, which is weird because it's not what it feels like watching: he's been very positive as a passer and shown tons of signs: another example of how raw box score can't be trusted for evaluation. His fluidity and awareness for a big is really great, he continues making a strong argument for a potential top 3 pick in this draft. Again, obviously a long way to go but it's good signs for him.

    Jalen Johnson having a slightly more human game today after a massive outburst early: only 5 minutes left in the Duke v Michigan State game and he's on 10/3/1 on 4/9 shooting, a steal and 2 blocks rounding things out. Still plenty of positive signs but the lack of half-court advantage creation showing up a bit more than it did in that first explosion he had. Still a concern going forward, although obviously too early to say anything too dramatic about it and he's still a clear top 10, potentially top 5 pick.

    BJ Boston still yet to play.
    Cade Cunningham/Usman Garuba/Scottie Barnes/Moses Moody/Corey Kispert endorser.

    Eye test people: analytics people watch more basketball than you do.

  2. #52


    Look at the casual snap on this pass lmao

  3. #53


    This is a move a ton of high level NBA scorers utilise a lot. Common to see people like Ingram and Butler pull this out.

  4. #54
    Man I have to say, while watching Cade, I still struggle to envision what he'll do against NBA length and athleticism. He just looks a tier down athletically from a guy like Ben Simmons. If that's the case, the pull-up jumper he showed above will be super important to his ability to create in the half court. Whether he'll be able to yank that from 3, I'm not sure. His schedule gets really difficult around mid-December, so we'll find out for sure then.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    Man I have to say, while watching Cade, I still struggle to envision what he'll do against NBA length and athleticism. He just looks a tier down athletically from a guy like Ben Simmons. If that's the case, the pull-up jumper he showed above will be super important to his ability to create in the half court. Whether he'll be able to yank that from 3, I'm not sure. His schedule gets really difficult around mid-December, so we'll find out for sure then.
    Not to sound absurd, but this is basically what all the negative voices said about Luka before the draft. ''Oh he might look good in Europe but it's all slow, unathletic guys over there! What will he do against real athletic guys, real athletes in the NBA? The competition is different over here!''

    Like yes, there will be an adjustment period as there is always is for rookies. But I would much rather someone with a sky high IQ, shooting equity, elite passing, high tier ball handling, and the strength to put it to use, on a frame that isn't the most explosive, than someone who can jump out of the gym but has no idea what they're doing. Sick of Andrew Wiggings type hype. Draft good players.

  6. #56
    This is a homer alert but Cam Thomas has look fantastic early on. I did not watch a whole lot of high school tape/AAU tape before the season started, but man does he project as a bucket getter at the next level. He can score at all three levels, the sample size is early but his setback looks devastating, and he looks comfortable taking it. He gets to the line a ton, and projects as a plus finisher around the rim. He already has a plethora of runners, floaters, etc. around the rim. The cons are size obviously he might not be 6’3, and he is a pure 2, I can not seem his projecting as a lead ball handler, he doesn’t have the passing vision. If he continues to produce like this I could see him sneaking in to the back end of the lottery. You basically know what your going to get, and there is very little chance he is a total bust with his skill set. I am not a fan of player comps, but he screams Lou Will to me.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by bogiesfedora View Post
    This is a homer alert but Cam Thomas has look fantastic early on. I did not watch a whole lot of high school tape/AAU tape before the season started, but man does he project as a bucket getter at the next level. He can score at all three levels, the sample size is early but his setback looks devastating, and he looks comfortable taking it. He gets to the line a ton, and projects as a plus finisher around the rim. He already has a plethora of runners, floaters, etc. around the rim. The cons are size obviously he might not be 6’3, and he is a pure 2, I can not seem his projecting as a lead ball handler, he doesn’t have the passing vision. If he continues to produce like this I could see him sneaking in to the back end of the lottery. You basically know what your going to get, and there is very little chance he is a total bust with his skill set. I am not a fan of player comps, but he screams Lou Will to me.
    Lou Will isn't a lottery pick

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Lou Will isn't a lottery pick
    Yeah absolutely not. Who knows, of course, time will tell as more sample size is added up but I wouldn't have Cam Thomas in my early-season top 20, let alone lottery.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Lou Will isn't a lottery pick
    I don’t know what this means. You certainly couldn’t fetch a lottery pick for him today he is 34, unless a contender ends up with a lottery pick from some previous trade. If the Lakers somehow had the 13th pick in this last draft I could envision a scenario where they would do 13 for Lou. If you redrafted the 2005 NBA draft I am not sure how you wouldn’t have him in the lottery. In fact I am not sure how you get past ten without taking him. If your talking about that player archetype (undersized microwave scorer off the bench who kills you defensively) then yeah I guess I get it, as to the comp Cam has the potential to be much better defensively, that isn’t saying a whole lot, but he could be good enough to not relegate him to the bench.
    Last edited by bogiesfedora; 12-03-2020 at 02:44 AM.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Not to sound absurd, but this is basically what all the negative voices said about Luka before the draft. ''Oh he might look good in Europe but it's all slow, unathletic guys over there! What will he do against real athletic guys, real athletes in the NBA? The competition is different over here!''

    Like yes, there will be an adjustment period as there is always is for rookies. But I would much rather someone with a sky high IQ, shooting equity, elite passing, high tier ball handling, and the strength to put it to use, on a frame that isn't the most explosive, than someone who can jump out of the gym but has no idea what they're doing. Sick of Andrew Wiggings type hype. Draft good players.
    Totally agree. Love good players. Everything on my twitter feed is good things about Cade, so I figured I'd point out some of the negatives because that's how these things work. He's not prime Lebron lol. But none of this matter considering we'll probably have less than a 5% chance at him.

    I'm not really sure how Kuminga or Jalen Green could jump him right now, given the unsurety of the G-league. Jalen Suggs looks pretty damn good, but Cade would likely look better if surrounded by the loaded Zags squad

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    Totally agree. Love good players. Everything on my twitter feed is good things about Cade, so I figured I'd point out some of the negatives because that's how these things work. He's not prime Lebron lol. But none of this matter considering we'll probably have less than a 5% chance at him.

    I'm not really sure how Kuminga or Jalen Green could jump him right now, given the unsurety of the G-league. Jalen Suggs looks pretty damn good, but Cade would likely look better if surrounded by the loaded Zags squad
    Suggs is on a loaded squad, as you say (there's probably 4 NBA players in their starting lineup lmao) and also, while he's shown extreme promise at what he does, what he does is not as valuable at the NBA level as what Cade does. Simply put, Suggs is looking like the world's best off-ball guard right now. That's super valuable, but not as valuable as a legitimate primary initiator and offensive-hub.

    And yeah, it's worth pointing out problems Cade has: every generational talent has them, it's inevitable. For example, while he's been really good so far in college at it, he often fell asleep off-ball on D prior to college. That problem might be gone (he hasn't shown it yet at college) but it could always come back, and is something we have to look out for.

    Every great player has flaws though. If you really want, you can name problems that MJ had, that Lebron had, that Kareem had, that KG had, etc. Important to acknowledge, but not deal-breakers.

    Note: this is not me saying Cade is going to be Lebron just giving examples

  12. #62
    So we have 2 first round picks and 4 second round picks with 2 from Cleveland & 2 from Washington? Wish we could of gotten a 1st from Milwaukee for 2021, so we could maybe trade all 3 to get up there for a shot at a possible Star player. Hopefully we can turn Lonzo into another one. And then some high playoff team thinks JJ can get them a ring and is willing to give up one lol. I think we have a shot at the playoffs though, so hopefully Kira & NAW can fill in after the trade deadline if we were to move them both. But we don’t have to make the playoffs this year. We would be better off not making the playoffs for a possible star actually lol. If we could get 3 or even 4 picks in this really deep draft, hopefully we could move up to get a top 10 guy preferably at the 2 or 3 since I think BI could play the 2 if needed.

    If we could get a Jalen Johnson or BJ Boston I would be stoked. If not I seen Boston’s teammate Terrence Clarke mocked to us in a couple mocks. He’s a good player as well. Just seen one that had Jalen Johnson falling to us at 13, but he’s going to likely move into the top 10 like Boston.
    Last edited by DaPelFromHell; 12-03-2020 at 11:51 AM.

  13. #63
    If I was Griff my goal would be to get another pick in the 13-16 range if not better. So we end up with picks like 13, 15, and 30 and we turn them into pick 8 or 9. Hopefully we move JJ early on. Then we play Kira, NAW, & Jaxson a ton of minutes and move Lonzo at the trade deadline for a late lottery pick.

    Or MJ wants Lonzo to join LaMelo in Charlotte bad enough that he would send us a 2021 top 3 or 5 protected first. And hopefully with the additions of LaMelo, Lonzo, and Hayward to join PJ Washington, Rozier, & Graham they get a pick in the 6 through 9 range.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Suggs is on a loaded squad, as you say (there's probably 4 NBA players in their starting lineup lmao) and also, while he's shown extreme promise at what he does, what he does is not as valuable at the NBA level as what Cade does. Simply put, Suggs is looking like the world's best off-ball guard right now. That's super valuable, but not as valuable as a legitimate primary initiator and offensive-hub.
    If it wasn't clear, I meant Cade would look better than Suggs if running the show with the Zags. Given that spacing, I'm sure he'd thrive. His assist numbers so far with OkSt are a joke (I've watched every game. That team is far from good)

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    If it wasn't clear, I meant Cade would look better than Suggs if running the show with the Zags. Given that spacing, I'm sure he'd thrive. His assist numbers so far with OkSt are a joke (I've watched every game. That team is far from good)
    Oh yeah the OK team is really poor. He's constantly making great passes that result in nothing because his teammates cannot execute on anything. It's a huge shame, but hey, you're watching the games so you know the passing is there. It's not his fault nobody else can hit a shot

    But yeah you're right, I understood. Suggs looks great, and part of that is that he's benefiting from being in a really good situation: sometimes that's something you just have to take account of, just like you have to account for someone being in a really poor situation like Cade is, or like Cole Anthony was last year.

  16. #66
    I don't know if his skills would translate very well to the NBA, but Iowa's Luka Garza is impressive

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by rebelman View Post
    I don't know if his skills would translate very well to the NBA, but Iowa's Luka Garza is impressive
    Oh yeah he's had some really big games recently. Definitely need to see more though to believe that it's real. This is his 4th year in college and none of his previous years have come anything close to this in terms of numbers. His career averages in his first 3 college seasons were 16/7/1 on 54/33/69 shooting: so far this year, he's averaging 34/9.5/0.5 on 86/75/88 splits. There's basically no way in my mind that he's going to sustain that for very long, they're legitimately absurd numbers.

    Still, a very good start to the year for him. Seems likely that if he keeps up a high level play after a fairly successful college career prior to this, he could have an argument for being a FRP this year: not lottery, but maybe somewhere in the 20s.

  18. #68
    Moses Moody continuing the bounce back. After scoring incredibly inefficiently to start the year, he's now posted games of 7/8 shooting and 7/12 shooting in back to back outings. Free throw shooting has been consistently good.

  19. #69
    Meanwhile, Cade looks absolutely done with this team. He's already been visibly annoyed by his teammates for missing rotations at least twice, and isn't shooting much. Wonder if he'll pick it up in the second half. He's looked fine, it's not like he's been shooting them and missing, but it's just not the kind of activity you want to see. Obviously anyone can become frustrated with awful teammates, we've seen all kinds of greats do it, but you still just wish it wouldn't happen.

  20. #70

  21. #71
    Laker 2021 pick is reverse protected. We won't get it unless it's a lottery pick.

    So, I think we only have one 1st.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Laker 2021 pick is reverse protected. We won't get it unless it's a lottery pick.

    So, I think we only have one 1st.
    Correct. Unless the Lakers collapse and end up with a top seven pick, the pick becomes an unprotected first round pick in 2022.

    Here is the breakdown through 2027:

    2021 - Own; LAL 1-7

    2022 - Own; LAL if not already settled

    2023 - Own or swap for LAL

    2024 - Own or swap for MIL; LAL unless NOP defers and instead receives LAL's 2025 1st round pick

    2025 - Own; LAL if NOP defers LAL's 2024 1st round pick; MIL

    2026 - Own or swap for MIL

    2027 - Own; MIL

    So the Pels will have likely one, likely two, one, one or two, two or three, one and two. Eleven first rounders over the next seven drafts and likely ten second rounders, six in the next two drafts.
    Last edited by Mount Zion; 12-05-2020 at 11:09 PM.

  23. #73
    Cade through 4 games, in a really awful environment:

    18.5/6/4.3 on 50/46/84 splits, playing fantastic team defense. 1.8 steals and a block per game.



    He's not an explosive athlete, but the handful of people who think he's Luka level are incorrect. He can get up, a little. Hard to imagine Luka ever doing anything like this.



    Cade with the lefty whip pass off the dribble right through the defense, with insane speed on it. Cade is not left handed.



    Currently shooting 46% from 3 on 3.5 per game.

    Despite the awful circumstances for him, he's consistently showing off why he's the clear number 1. Guys like Suggs and Johnson who came out and had explosive starts have trailed off a bit over the next few games, and while someone like Mobley has been very very good (it's difficult to imagine him falling outside of the top 3) he's clearly just a step behind Cade in all of those super advanced, feel ways, as well as some statistical issues like his sub-par FT% and poor AST:TO ratio.

  24. #74
    I've only seen the highlights of Cade you post here, but he reminds of Luka with the crafty dribbling and vision

    Let's hope that Lakers 2021 pick lands us #1 this year

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    I've only seen the highlights of Cade you post here, but he reminds of Luka with the crafty dribbling and vision

    Let's hope that Lakers 2021 pick lands us #1 this year
    He is very much in the Luka mold of player. Not exactly identical, because he's slightly more athletic and a better defender but probably not quite the manipulator, and hasn't yet showed quite the same mastery of pace, but the large on-ball creator with insane vision and craft, versatile passing, and sky-high feel/IQ is definitely it.

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