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Thread: 2021 NBA Draft Discussion

  1. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I think that unlike JJ, who was too small and laterally awkward to ever be a defensive plus, Kisperts size and defensive footwork means that he will probably be a pretty solid team defender, particularly when combined with his good awareness and IQ, but yes defense is his weaker area. That's why I have him behind Moody and Wagner in my Big Wing/Forward wishlist despite him being probably the best shooter of the three right now.

    Well, that and his age.
    I like Wagner. He has the build of that glue guy . Very good defensive wing. He struggled in the tourney, but I see him as a guy who will legit two way value and fits any team

  2. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snarly View Post
    Is Jalen Johnson a wing? Duke played him as a big and it seemed to hurt his stock. His skillset gives me Porter Jr vibes at his size. Seems like he's more comfortable on the perimeter. He looks like he has star quality if he develops as a wing.
    Once you get out of the top 5

    Johnson has just as much upside as anybody left

    He will get red flags because he quit on Duke and quit on his high school team as well

    He has do it all foward potential

  3. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Speakthetruth View Post
    I like Wagner. He has the build of that glue guy . Very good defensive wing. He struggled in the tourney, but I see him as a guy who will legit two way value and fits any team
    I think he has really great defensive upside, he just flat out knows how to play defense in a variety of situations, has good size and length, it all fits together.

    Then on offense, I think he's flashed legitimate signs of being able to run the PnR, at least as a second or third option, and I'm pretty optimistic about his shooting due to a combination of the nice form, the variety of shots he took at Michigan, and the 84% FT career stat. All of that is encouraging to me.

    If we end up getting a pick in the top 3, for me you have to just draft the best player available so that's Cade and then Mobley as priorities. If you get top 6, and obviously guys like Cade and Mobley and Suggs are gone, I'm Moody all day. If we end up picking between 7-12 and Cade, Mobley, Moody, etc are gone, then Franz. If all of those guys are gone, then I take either someone like Kispert or I take a swing on a guy like Springer if he's still hanging around, as some mocks recently have seen him dropping. I wouldn't mind Garuba at that spot either, though it would require us really knowing what we're doing in terms of team construction regarding our guards going forward (NAW and Kira take the wheel?)
    Cade Cunningham/Usman Garuba/Scottie Barnes/Moses Moody/Corey Kispert endorser.

    Eye test people: analytics people watch more basketball than you do.

  4. #329
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    Springers reminds me on brogdon he wouldn't be a bad pick at all if this team is sitting at 8 or 9. I think I would rather have him that moody. Tenn under performing might help him fall. He had really good shooting splits . He isn't an elite passer, but somebody who cna get by and if your running point zion he will be fine as well off the ball.

    Moody fits as well

    Think springer has the higher upside
    Last edited by Speakthetruth; 04-21-2021 at 01:19 PM.

  5. #330
    Not done watching games on him, but Davion Mitchell checks so many boxes.

    Also considers it "embarrassing" to keep getting scored on. Dad had him running defensive drills in his youth. Already 23 with very much a strong NBA body. Crazy handles. And he's obviously a champion.

  6. #331
    It's pretty sad when the only standing fans are interested in seeing the home team move up in is.........

    http://www.tankathon.com/

    But here we are...AGAIN!!!
    Disclaimer: I would never denigrate or defame Zion Williamson as a man or as a basketball player; he will go down as an NBA great and perhaps a Top 10+ player of all time. Any inference derived from any of my posts to the contrary is your mischaracterization of my words, or a sign of insecurity on your part (perhaps both).

    Respectfully,

    AISI

  7. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    Not done watching games on him, but Davion Mitchell checks so many boxes.

    Also considers it "embarrassing" to keep getting scored on. Dad had him running defensive drills in his youth. Already 23 with very much a strong NBA body. Crazy handles. And he's obviously a champion.
    I like him quite a bit, but I probably find him just outside the lottery to me. Partly because yeah, he's already 23 which is ancient for an NBA rookie, and while I think he's a really solid 1v1 defender his team defense isn't quite as elite and I think team D is far more important at the NBA level; the old Robert Covington/Danny Green > Pat Beverley argument.

    And on ball his decision making is pretty shaky which is a touch concerning for a guy his age: part of the value of drafting an older guy in the first place is that they shouldn't really have as much stuff they need to ''figure out''.

    Given that we're almost guaranteed to be drafting in the lottery at this point I think Davion would be a bit of a reach. Not a horrible one or anything just better value in the lottery imo.

  8. #333
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    Yeah Mitchell is to old for me to take him . If thats the case I'd rather trade the pick

  9. #334
    How old were Steph curry and Lillard for their first nba game?

  10. #335
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    I know Lillard was 22.

  11. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Speakthetruth View Post
    Yeah Mitchell is to old for me to take him . If thats the case I'd rather trade the pick
    He's not too old for this team, which has enough developmental projects.

    As far as off-ball defense, that can be taught if the player gives the effort. And he said he considers defense 100% effort. And I'm not even sure his off-ball defense is that bad. Still watching games.

    He'd be very nice to bring off the bench as a spark plug that can create their own shot.

    Again, serious Kyrie/Kemba type handles plus defense.

  12. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    How old were Steph curry and Lillard for their first nba game?
    Lillard was 22 and Curry was 21, and both were better at college than Mitchell is.

  13. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    He's not too old for this team, which has enough developmental projects.

    As far as off-ball defense, that can be taught if the player gives the effort. And he said he considers defense 100% effort. And I'm not even sure his off-ball defense is that bad. Still watching games.

    He'd be very nice to bring off the bench as a spark plug that can create their own shot.

    Again, serious Kyrie/Kemba type handles plus defense.
    It's bad off-ball defense, per se, it's just that people have this image of him as a turbo-defender and it's largely due to his on-ball D which isn't nearly as value at the NBA level. His off-ball defense is fine, but it's just fine, and given that that's the kind of D that is usually far more important at the next level it's what I pay more attention to.

    You're right that this team has enough projects, but I think if you can get a player who you think will be good enough to contribute immediately and is 20, you should pick him over the guy you think may also contribute immediately but is 23, if only because you leave them more room to develop even if they're already good enough to play.

    Put it this way: Davion Mitchell today than Zion will be at the end of his rookie deal. That's old. Unless they're really special, why would you take that guy over a guy who is just as good - potentially better in some ways - but who is also 2 or 3 years younger? And those guys exist, it's not like Mitchell was the best player in college basketball this year.

  14. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    It's bad off-ball defense, per se, it's just that people have this image of him as a turbo-defender and it's largely due to his on-ball D which isn't nearly as value at the NBA level. His off-ball defense is fine, but it's just fine, and given that that's the kind of D that is usually far more important at the next level it's what I pay more attention to.

    You're right that this team has enough projects, but I think if you can get a player who you think will be good enough to contribute immediately and is 20, you should pick him over the guy you think may also contribute immediately but is 23, if only because you leave them more room to develop even if they're already good enough to play.

    Put it this way: Davion Mitchell today than Zion will be at the end of his rookie deal. That's old. Unless they're really special, why would you take that guy over a guy who is just as good - potentially better in some ways - but who is also 2 or 3 years younger? And those guys exist, it's not like Mitchell was the best player in college basketball this year.
    Yea the Davion hype just screams March Madness recency bias.
    CAW CAW!!!

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  15. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverfoxx View Post
    Yea the Davion hype just screams March Madness recency bias.
    What Davion hype?

    And if you believe there is a recency bias going on because of the tournament, that seems like a good one to have. Considering his team won the title and he played a huge role in that. I think I'd want players that perform well when it matters most.

    Never mind that same team was a clear #1 seed before the tournament and only lost 2 games all year.

  16. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    What Davion hype?

    And if you believe there is a recency bias going on because of the tournament, that seems like a good one to have. Considering his team won the title and he played a huge role in that. I think I'd want players that perform well when it matters most.

    Never mind that same team was a clear #1 seed before the tournament and only lost 2 games all year.
    The existence of Davion hype is fairly self evident, frankly. Basically nobody had him as a lottery pick six weeks ago and if you go and talk to people there are those who have him in the top 10 right now. Tankathon has him 14th, above Ziaire Williams, Jaden Springer, Usman Garuba, and Kai Jones who I think are all much higher upside guys. NBADraft.net has him 9th, ahead of all of those guys + Kispert and Wagner. NBCSports did a mock draft just a few days ago in which he went 6th, ahead of all of those guys + Scottie Barnes and Moses Moody.

    There's definitely some excess hype for him right now.

  17. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    What Davion hype?

    And if you believe there is a recency bias going on because of the tournament, that seems like a good one to have. Considering his team won the title and he played a huge role in that. I think I'd want players that perform well when it matters most.

    Never mind that same team was a clear #1 seed before the tournament and only lost 2 games all year.
    That's the kind of thinking that leaves you with a Miles Simon or a Tyler Hansbrough.

  18. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by ml wave View Post
    That's the kind of thinking that leaves you with a Miles Simon or a Tyler Hansbrough.
    Or a Kemba Walker or a Joakim Noah. Miles Simon got picked in the 2nd round so why even bring his name up?
    Last edited by luckyman; 04-22-2021 at 03:33 PM.

  19. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I like Chet, don't have him as my pre-season #1. He's top 5 though.

    Go check out Paolo Banchero for my pre-college #1. Incredible prospect at that level.
    Starting to put together my pre-season 2022 draft stuff, based on all the pre-college sample stuff I've watched along with the stuff I've read from other draft people. It's been a slightly weird year because obviously a lot of stuff hasn't happened as it would normally, but these are the guys I'm watching out for next year.

    Top 5:
    - Paulo Banchero
    - AJ Griffin
    - Yannick Nzosa
    - Chet Holmgren
    - Peyton Watson

    Lottery prospects:
    - Patrick Baldwin
    - Jean Montero
    - Ousmane Dieng
    - Jabari Smith
    - Caleb Houstan
    - Kendall Brown
    - Matt Cleveland
    - Jaden Hardy

    Other guys to watch for, probably first rounders: Kennedy Chandler, Nikola Jovic, Kadary Richmond, Lefteris Mantzoukas, Jaden Ivey, Jabari Walker, Trevor Keels

  20. #345

  21. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    Or a Kemba Walker or a Joakim Noah. Miles Simon got picked in the 2nd round so why even bring his name up?
    Sorry, was thinking of Michael Dickerson off the same Arizona team. Point remains.

  22. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by ml wave View Post
    Sorry, was thinking of Michael Dickerson off the same Arizona team. Point remains.
    He didn't win the title his senior year. They lost in the final 8 to Utah where he played awful. And the year before he was awful in the tournament. Went 2 - 18 in the championship game.

    This guy getting drafted where he did had nothing to do with the tournament or Arizona winning the title the year before.

  23. #348
    I think my new general draft guideline is that if someone is under 6'3 they require an absolutely mindnumbingly outlier skill in some form or else I'm not interested at all.

  24. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    He didn't win the title his senior year. They lost in the final 8 to Utah where he played awful. And the year before he was awful in the tournament. Went 2 - 18 in the championship game.

    This guy getting drafted where he did had nothing to do with the tournament or Arizona winning the title the year before.
    Lol...memory fades!

  25. #350
    So what are your guys thoughts on Josh Giddey entering the draft? I haven't done much research on him but from what i saw, hell of a passer... but that offense looks shaky.

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