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Thread: What's the take on Lonzo Ball

  1. #1
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    What's the take on Lonzo Ball

    The orlando bubble wasn't kind to him. His shooting is either really cold or hot. He doesnt go to the rim. Who here is sold that he is the future at point guard


    He responded to this after the game vs spurs


    https://twitter.com/ZO2_/status/1292...ubble-stats%2F


    His dad exposed him to this type of cristism, but those are brutal stats

  2. #2
    He's bad, move him
    Tyrese Maxey/Isaac Okoro/Killian Tillie/Onyeka Okongwu/Devin Vassell endorser.

    Eye test people: analytics people watch more basketball than you do.

  3. #3
    Has tremendous skills but the Basketball IQ of a rock. Useless.
    If Lebron and Company are so concerned about social injustice, let them give up their Nike Multi Million Dollar Endorsements until working conditions improve for workers at Nike's sub-contractor sweatshops in China.

    Say Cannon Hinnant's Name.

  4. #4
    You know, sometimes I get in serious disagreements with people on this board and it's all very contradictory and dramatic and argumentative. Sometimes after that I think man, why does nobody get it?


    Then I go on Twitter and see people seriously arguing that Lonzo deserves us to give him a 4yr/$70m contract and I realise that actually you guys aren't that bad.

  5. #5
    He really played like trash in the bubble, but was playing well before. Maybe see how things play out next year, maybe even trade him at the deadline if the right move presents itself. Really disappointed in how we've played as a team this roster needs a thorough examination.. and fire Gentry

  6. #6
    Obviously, I don't think he is this bad. I try not to overreact to good or bad stretches, and I think the bubble is particularly prone to be over-valued relative to the larger sample of the rest of the season due to recency bias and how much attention everyone is paying to it.

    I think he probably doesn't have significant trade value at this point (he might have if he didn't play in the bubble). I would offer him an extension at good backup money, somewhere a bit north of the MLE, because I think there is a useful player in there somewhere and think he could develop into a value on that contract, but his limitations are very apparent right now. I think there's no way he accepts that, though. Otherwise, I would let it play out and play the restricted free agency game. If there is a team who values him in a way that actually adds something, I would be open to trading him, but I wouldn't move him just to get him off the team.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PeliKhan View Post
    He really played like trash in the bubble, but was playing well before. Maybe see how things play out next year, maybe even trade him at the deadline if the right move presents itself. Really disappointed in how we've played as a team this roster needs a thorough examination.. and fire Gentry
    It's difficult to assess anything with this playing style under this coaching staff.

    But any point guard that struggles with layups scares me.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    You know, sometimes I get in serious disagreements with people on this board and it's all very contradictory and dramatic and argumentative. Sometimes after that I think man, why does nobody get it?


    Then I go on Twitter and see people seriously arguing that Lonzo deserves us to give him a 4yr/$70m contract and I realise that actually you guys aren't that bad.
    I think he can be a good player but lacks consistency. Would I pay 10 mil a year for him, I think so. 20 million hell no. If he consistently put up 15-10 I would but 7-7 naw.

  9. #9
    Cut bait.

  10. #10
    Hasn't changed. His ceiling has been low end starter for a while now. But without consistent decision making and 3 point shooting he can't even be that. The layup issue isn't fixable and neither is the facts defenses won't respect his drives.

    I don't care if he's on the roster or off. That depends on the value you get. Just don't invest in him,

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by tdcreator View Post
    I think he can be a good player but lacks consistency. Would I pay 10 mil a year for him, I think so. 20 million hell no. If he consistently put up 15-10 I would but 7-7 naw.
    Yes, I also agree that if he were a considerably better player I would pay more for him

    I'm being a bit stupid there but yeah I agree, if he were a 15/10 guy on decent efficiency (not even elite but like, 42/37/70 or something) then I'd be more interested. But he's just not that. He's a career 10/6 guy on 39/34/47 splits. Just not good enough.

    I even think $10m is a bit much. If you're paying him $10m you're doing it on potential because he's not worth that right now. Between $8 and $13m, you get Zion, Maxi Kleber, PJ Tucker, Bogdan Bogdanovic, TJ Warren, Spencer Dinwiddie, Robert Covington, Kelly Olynyk, Joe Ingles, Jusuf Nurkic, PatBev, Marcus Smart, and Brook Lopez.

    I would rather be paying Marcus Smart or RoCo or Olynyk or Nurkic or Bogdan, or Kleber, than be paying Lonzo.

  12. #12
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Taker597's Avatar
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    If he ain’t going to hit the gym and do something about those legs. Cut bait. Dude runs into a brick every night. He's useless if he can't penetrate and only shoots well for a dozen games.

  13. #13
    If a point guard can't shoot north of 75% at the free throw line he is useless (he's a sub 50% lifetime shooter). That has nothing to do with coaching. It mechanics and what goes on between the ears.

    To me, # 2 is # 2.

  14. #14
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Taker597's Avatar
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    Honestly, you can try to trade him and probably find a better vet pg for cheaper than him.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Honestly, you can try to trade him and probably find a better vet pg for cheaper than him.
    Agreed

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Yes, I also agree that if he were a considerably better player I would pay more for him

    I would rather be paying Marcus Smart or RoCo or Olynyk or Nurkic or Bogdan, or Kleber, than be paying Lonzo.
    Sure, but you don't get the option to pay those guys that salary instead. You would have the option to pay those guys 20 million now. Those guys were extensions or re-signings as restricted free agents which artificially drove their salary down (plus uncertainty about how good they actually were---all those guys except Olynyk and maybe Covington improved significantly from when they signed their deals), as it tends to do with non-max players. You'd be hoping for the same with Lonzo on a contract around the MLE. Or you'd be choosing between paying him 10 million or, say, Jae Crowder.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    Sure, but you don't get the option to pay those guys that salary instead.
    Sure but that's my point. That's what those guys are being paid. Those are guys I view as good value at that money. Would Lonzo be good value at that money? Absolutely not, so if you pay him it, it's in the hopes that he takes some big big leaps. Has he made me think he's going to make those leaps? No he hasn't. So I wouldn't pay him that, because I think it would end up being a bad value contract.

  18. #18
    Trade him and our # 1 to the Knicks for Elfrid and their # 1 (if only they would bite).

  19. #19
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Taker597's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Sure but that's my point. That's what those guys are being paid. Those are guys I view as good value at that money. Would Lonzo be good value at that money? Absolutely not, so if you pay him it, it's in the hopes that he takes some big big leaps. Has he made me think he's going to make those leaps? No he hasn't. So I wouldn't pay him that, because I think it would end up being a bad value contract.
    Not only we don't get a discount. We would have to overpay to keep him if he decides to turn the corner in the contract year, but his FT percentage makes that's unlikely.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Sure but that's my point. That's what those guys are being paid. Those are guys I view as good value at that money. Would Lonzo be good value at that money? Absolutely not, so if you pay him it, it's in the hopes that he takes some big big leaps. Has he made me think he's going to make those leaps? No he hasn't. So I wouldn't pay him that, because I think it would end up being a bad value contract.
    I feel like those guys are all (except Olynyk and maybe Kleber, who is paid about right) significantly positive value contracts. It's like saying I don't want to pay Brandon Ingram a max because I would rather pay Joel Embiid when that is not an alternative. Yes, it's a more attractive option, but one that is not available to you. If those guys were all available right now in unrestricted free agency, they would be paid more.

    It would be fair to say that you don't want to pay Lonzo that because you would rather pay Josh Hart, because that's a thing you could realistically do. If I could choose to pay someone who in retrospect 3 years after they signed their deal ended up being a great value instead, that sounds great, but predicting who that is going to be is difficult.

    We could go in circles about this all day though.
    Last edited by Biasvasospasm; 08-09-2020 at 09:40 PM.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    I feel like those guys are all (except Olynyk and maybe Kleber, who is paid about right) significantly positive value contracts. It's like saying I don't want to pay Brandon Ingram a max because I would rather pay Joel Embiid when that is not an alternative. Yes, it's a more attractive option, but one that is not available to you. If those guys were all available right now in unrestricted free agency, they would be paid more.

    It would be fair to say that you don't want to pay Lonzo that because you would rather pay Josh Hart, because that's a thing you could realistically do.

    We could go in circles about this all day though.
    It's also fair to say I don't want to pay Lonzo that money because I would rather have the space. Which is literally true at this point. You forget that while it's true that you don't have the option to sign, say, Marcus Smart instead, there's still an opportunity cost associated with signing Lonzo, which is the money his contract takes up for the time it runs and the roster spot.

    I can imagine worlds where it's more useful to have $10m and a roster spot than Lonzo Ball.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I can imagine worlds where it's more useful to have $10m and a roster spot than Lonzo Ball.
    I'm dubious about the value of cap space in New Orleans.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    I'm dubious about the value of cap space in New Orleans.
    Which is a fair thing to say.

  24. #24
    You can't even run a PnR properly with # 2 because, he can't finish (even if he's fouled you've lost one point on average). The PnR becomes one dimensional. Now insert Zion in the PnR...where's the opening for Zion to operate (never mind we have no stretch 5 to open the floor)?

  25. #25
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    I'm dubious about the value of cap space in New Orleans.
    Yeah. We need to be real. We aren't about to lure anyone who matters down here with money alone until some future after we've won a couple championships and even then it would be ring chasers on their way out of the league but who were once really good.

    We want elite talent in its prime, we'll have to trade for or draft and develop it.

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