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Thread: NBA DRAFT 2020 DISCUSSION

  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    Yeah I wish Didi was a bit taller. 6'5" isn't really ideal as a SF. Josh Hart already fits that profile.
    That's part of why I'm so sceptical about the Didi hype. I think he could be a good player, but people pencilling him in as a lock for the next 5+ years are going a bit far imo. Good but not gamechanging defender, didn't jump off the page offensively in Australia, didn't shoot lights out, will be 21 when he joins us so he's not super super young either.

    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    If only there was an AK47 in this draft.
    Any good role players I should look into with our picks?
    Assuming the Pels make the playoffs so their pick will be 15+.
    Lots. That's actually where I think this draft is strongest; while there's nobody I look at and thing ''wow, that guy is destined to be a star'', there are plenty of guys where I say ''that guy definitely can play a role on an NBA team''.

    Just to throw out some names:

    Tyrell Terry: 19/6/4 per 40 minutes. 45/40/90 splits (5 3PAs per game). Decent passer, okay defender for his height, but small; only 6'1.
    Patrick Williams: 16/7/2 per 40. 46/33/87 splits. Really promising defender with good size and IQ. 6'8, 225lbs ish.
    Tyler Bey: 19/13/2 per 40, 52/50/75 splits (super low 3PT volume tho, 1 per game). Really good defender, individual and team. 6'7, 220lbs.
    Saddiq Bey: 18/6/3 per 40, 47/45/78 splits (5+ 3PAs per game). 6'8, 220lbs, okay-ish team defender, legit shooter though with size.
    Paul Reed: 19/13/2 per 40, 52/29/76 splits. 6'9, 210lbs. High level defensive feel and IQ, prodigious STL+BLK% combo, has grown as a passer.
    Aaron Nesmith: 26/5/1 per 40, 51/52/83 splits (shoots 8 3PA per game, high volume!). Just a brilliant projected shooter. Can't playmake. Okay defender with his size; 6'6, 213lbs.
    Killian Tillie: One of my favourite players in the draft in terms of Pelicans fit. 22/8/3 per 40, 51/40/73 splits on 4 3PAs per game. Has shot over 40% for 4 straight years in college on at least 2 per game each year, with it increasing over the seasons. Great passer for a big, fantastic defender on a team level. 6'10, 220lbs. Only problem is slightly injury prone; nothing huge but a lot of minor ones.
    Desmond Bane: 18/7/4 per 40, 48/43/78 splits. Has shot at least 42% from 3 for the last 3 years, on 3.9, then 4.8, then 6.4 attempts per game. Very mediocre defensively, nothing special there at all. Has shown flashes of high level passing but is a bit inconsistent. 6'5, 215lbs.
    Xavier Tillman: 17/13/4 per 40, 53/29/68 splits. Legitimately special defender, very capable shot blocker, solid big passer, high IQ player. 6'8, 245lbs.

    This is just a couple of names of guys who are very popular in draft circles, and for good reason. I think all of them have the potential to be actual NBA rotation players, and some of them have starter upside as well. There are clear roles for them, even if they don't have STAR written on them. Pick a name and hit the YouTube highlights

    Despite being a weak draft in terms of high level talent, I do think that this will be one of those drafts that refreshes the roleplayer pool a little bit.
    Tyrese Maxey/Isaac Okoro/Killian Tillie/Onyeka Okongwu/Devin Vassell endorser.

    Eye test people: analytics people watch more basketball than you do.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by UNO Gracias View Post
    Is NAW a PG though, or is this a square peg round hole situation?

    He played SG at VT, and should at least see the court there instead of Frank if we want NAW to develop. I am just a little skeptical of what we really have in NAW, or should the skepticism be in Gentry?
    He played a fair amount of PG his second year at VT after their lead guard went down with injury. So he does have some college experience in that role.

    That said, I think you're right and that his best role will be as a secondary playmaker and off-the-ball threat who runs the offense occasionally. Sort of a backup 1, with the 2 being his primary.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    That said, I think you're right and that his best role will be as a secondary playmaker and off-the-ball threat who runs the offense occasionally. Sort of a backup 1, with the 2 being his primary.
    Yea that's how I see it as well which is why I put guys like Culver, Barrett, etc onto that list. He already has better vision and cleverness passing the ball than Jrue ever has, but his handle has been super sloppy and he clearly has trouble beating defenders with his first step. He desperately needs to develop a pull up game, whether it be from 2 or 3.

  4. #204
    RIP BDJ AUSSIE_PELICAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    That's part of why I'm so sceptical about the Didi hype. I think he could be a good player, but people pencilling him in as a lock for the next 5+ years are going a bit far imo. Good but not gamechanging defender, didn't jump off the page offensively in Australia, didn't shoot lights out, will be 21 when he joins us so he's not super super young either.



    Lots. That's actually where I think this draft is strongest; while there's nobody I look at and thing ''wow, that guy is destined to be a star'', there are plenty of guys where I say ''that guy definitely can play a role on an NBA team''.

    Just to throw out some names:

    Tyrell Terry: 19/6/4 per 40 minutes. 45/40/90 splits (5 3PAs per game). Decent passer, okay defender for his height, but small; only 6'1.
    Patrick Williams: 16/7/2 per 40. 46/33/87 splits. Really promising defender with good size and IQ. 6'8, 225lbs ish.
    Tyler Bey: 19/13/2 per 40, 52/50/75 splits (super low 3PT volume tho, 1 per game). Really good defender, individual and team. 6'7, 220lbs.
    Saddiq Bey: 18/6/3 per 40, 47/45/78 splits (5+ 3PAs per game). 6'8, 220lbs, okay-ish team defender, legit shooter though with size.
    Paul Reed: 19/13/2 per 40, 52/29/76 splits. 6'9, 210lbs. High level defensive feel and IQ, prodigious STL+BLK% combo, has grown as a passer.
    Aaron Nesmith: 26/5/1 per 40, 51/52/83 splits (shoots 8 3PA per game, high volume!). Just a brilliant projected shooter. Can't playmake. Okay defender with his size; 6'6, 213lbs.
    Killian Tillie: One of my favourite players in the draft in terms of Pelicans fit. 22/8/3 per 40, 51/40/73 splits on 4 3PAs per game. Has shot over 40% for 4 straight years in college on at least 2 per game each year, with it increasing over the seasons. Great passer for a big, fantastic defender on a team level. 6'10, 220lbs. Only problem is slightly injury prone; nothing huge but a lot of minor ones.
    Desmond Bane: 18/7/4 per 40, 48/43/78 splits. Has shot at least 42% from 3 for the last 3 years, on 3.9, then 4.8, then 6.4 attempts per game. Very mediocre defensively, nothing special there at all. Has shown flashes of high level passing but is a bit inconsistent. 6'5, 215lbs.
    Xavier Tillman: 17/13/4 per 40, 53/29/68 splits. Legitimately special defender, very capable shot blocker, solid big passer, high IQ player. 6'8, 245lbs.

    This is just a couple of names of guys who are very popular in draft circles, and for good reason. I think all of them have the potential to be actual NBA rotation players, and some of them have starter upside as well. There are clear roles for them, even if they don't have STAR written on them. Pick a name and hit the YouTube highlights

    Despite being a weak draft in terms of high level talent, I do think that this will be one of those drafts that refreshes the roleplayer pool a little bit.
    Thanks for the info Dae.
    Appreciated

    I too like Tillie.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    Yea that's how I see it as well which is why I put guys like Culver, Barrett, etc onto that list. He already has better vision and cleverness passing the ball than Jrue ever has, but his handle has been super sloppy and he clearly has trouble beating defenders with his first step. He desperately needs to develop a pull up game, whether it be from 2 or 3.
    Agreed. One of the biggest criticisms of him coming out of the draft is the fact that he just doesn't really have much in the way of burst at all, and he's not explosive athletically at the rim either. SGA doesn't have a ton of explosion either but he's a very crafty ball handler in a way that NAW has yet to demonstrate; if he can pick up even some of that at the NBA level, his efficiency will go up.

    Totally agree that he could do with a solid pullup game as well.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    Thanks for the info Dae.
    Appreciated

    I too like Tillie.
    No problem! Tillie's great. He's a little old and a little injury prone so I feel like the team would probably pass on drafting him in the top 15 despite his really good fit and his high level of play, but if we end up in the playoffs and pick somewhere from 16+, then he'd be a great pickup.

    I've also just realised that ''Killian Tillie, Desmond Bane, and Xavier Tillman'' sound like some kind of supervillain faction.

  7. #207
    I think there are plenty of solid non freshman players in the draft, but a lot of them feel like reaches at 12.

    Jalen Smith, Reggie Perry, Tillie

    The wings and forwards already talked about.

    And the players you'd want at 12 that aren't guards will all be gone.

    Still think you take BPA with the first pick which will probably be a guard and I don't see a problem with that.

    2 of our guards will be Free Agents. 4 of them will have expiring contracts. And we have longterm players at the other 3 spots already.

    A swing 3 and D guy is probably a bigger need, but I'd still put guard near the top.


    Then you move around with the 2nds and such to get a pick that nets a role player.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelifan View Post
    Still think you take BPA with the first pick which will probably be a guard and I don't see a problem with that.
    I'm not sure what I think about this. I'm not saying you're wrong (this isn't a factual thing, this is just a different in draft philosophy) but I feel like taking BPA is only a real option when there's still obvious differences in quality between pieces. In this draft, the 13th pick is about as likely to get you a good player as the 25th pick; it's extremely flat and the tiers are extremely wide. In that scenario, unless you're absolutely desperate for a centrepiece, I feel slightly more confident drafting someone for fit than for ''best player available'' predictions. Since we have Zion and Ingram, I'm not really desperate for a centrepiece; I think we have enough upper level upside at least for now (maybe pick up another guy in 2021 or 2022 when the drafts are a bit better), and we could be well served grabbing a guy who maybe doesn't have star potential, but who locks in really well with what we've already got.

  9. #209
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    I think you build a board and still take based on value. But in a tie or a close choice, we have the luxury to draft for need/best fit a little now.

  10. #210
    What's really surprised me is how pretty much nobody has exceeded expectations, aside from maybe Okongwu, a little.

    Like last year, Zion was the clear cut number 1 to analytics guys from day 1, but there was some more public/media hype which said maybe RJ was the best player. Within a handful of games, that was clearly not true and RJ was relegated to 2nd place. And then as the year went on, Ja started climbing up the public leaderboards and surprising a lot of people, becoming a clear cut #2 and knocking Barrett to #3.

    Or in the past, someone like Trae Young started (relatively) low on many people's radar and then surged upwards as he exploded in college that year.

    This year? Nobody. If anything, almost everyone has dropped in public perception. Before the season started, a lot of people (including me!) thought Anthony Edwards and Cole Anthony would be the #1 and #2 prospect, based on all their pre-college stuff. Instead, both of them have been highly committed to underperforming at every possible turn, and I could honestly see either of them dropping to #5 or something without being shocked.

    Then guys who draft-twitter/analytics-people were relatively high on, like Okoro, have continued showing good signs and have solidified as lottery picks, but they haven't shot up the boards; nobody has just blown the lid off the estimations.

    I'm honestly having fun looking at players in past drafts who went relatively low and wondering how high they'd go this year.

    For example, in 2018, Trae Young was picked #5. He'd be the clear #1 this year.

  11. #211
    I will say though, that despite him not clarifying himself as the #1 prospect or anything, I am still high on Maxey's potential. I still feel like he has the ability. Hasn't shown it as often as I'd like so far this year but I can't help but think that a huge part of that is Kentucky's system and Calipari's insistence on him playing 2nd fiddle to Hagans.




  12. #212
    Any reason why Jalen Smith shouldn't be a target?

    He's a modern-sized NBA center who is a good athlete, can protect the rim and looks to have turned the corner as a shooter. If the shooting is for real, he could potentially play with both Zion and Jaxson Hayes. Obviously, there's a concern with developing too many guys at the same position, but we have that concern at every position except the 3.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    Any reason why Jalen Smith shouldn't be a target?

    He's a modern-sized NBA center who is a good athlete, can protect the rim and looks to have turned the corner as a shooter. If the shooting is for real, he could potentially play with both Zion and Jaxson Hayes. Obviously, there's a concern with developing too many guys at the same position, but we have that concern at every position except the 3.
    I have him as an option, but I wouldn't take him as high up as our FRP is currently projected.

    He definitely has his positives, like you said, but his negatives are pretty painful ones. One is that his passing is really low tier; he has relatively poor vision and feel. He had a 7.1% AST% his freshman year, and that's dropped to 5.6% this year, despite his TOV% going up from 10.5% to 12.4%. That's not the best sign in the world. Part of that is just due to his role, he's not really asked to playmake out of the post or anything, and there have been occasional flashes of good passing, but it's not enough for me to credit too strongly.

    Doesn't strike me as overly mobile either. He's okay in a straight line even if he's a touch slow, but he's sometimes a bit stiff when it comes to side-to-side/lateral motion, and I think that inhibits his potential as a defender at the next level. You mention the athleticism, and that's definitely true, but he tends to jump early and over-commit which can leave him out of position or force difficult recoveries.

    I do buy the shooting, at least as a possibility. It's true that he was a really poor shooter last year (27%) and has jumped up to 38% this year, but it hasn't come on unsustainable volume and his FT% has taken a solid step up too, from 66% to 75%. He's hit them off movement as well, so it's not like he's purely a stand-still set shooter guy. His handle is fairly decent, and although it's not outlier good (not Zion or Jax level) he does have solid touch around the rim.

    6'10, 225lbs, not actually that old despite being a sophomore (will be 20 on draft night), 62%TS, etc. It's positive stuff.

    Right now Tankathon has him going 21st overall to the Nets, and while I think that's a bad fit for the Nets (I don't think he can play next to DeAndre Jordan or Jarrett Allen), that kind of area from 20-35 is totally fair for him. If we traded down from #12, I'd happily take him in the 20s.

  14. #214
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Thoughts on Saddiq Bey?

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Thoughts on Saddiq Bey?
    I think he'll be an above-average shooter, but don't see him doing anything else useful. There is something about his movement patterns that reminds me of a thinner Solomon Hill.

  16. #216
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    I think he'll be an above-average shooter, but don't see him doing anything else useful. There is something about his movement patterns that reminds me of a thinner Solomon Hill.
    He just seems like a very good shooter who may develop into a serviceable defender. Could he become a bench spark plug similar to Hart?

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    He just seems like a very good shooter who may develop into a serviceable defender. Could he become a bench spark plug similar to Hart?
    The difference is Josh Hart is good at other things than scoring. He hustles like crazy, is an outstanding rebounder for his position, attacks close-outs really hard and although he's not a perfect defensive player, he gets a lot of deflections and is intense on that end. I think our biggest need is a 3/4 hybrid, and so I really want to like him. From what I've seen, though, I think he's closer to a less defensively atrocious version of Darius Miller, or recent draftee Cam Johnson than Hart.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    The difference is Josh Hart is good at other things than scoring. He hustles like crazy, is an outstanding rebounder for his position, attacks close-outs really hard and although he's not a perfect defensive player, he gets a lot of deflections and is intense on that end. I think our biggest need is a 3/4 hybrid, and so I really want to like him. From what I've seen, though, I think he's closer to a less defensively atrocious version of Darius Miller, or recent draftee Cam Johnson than Hart.
    I largely agree here.

    I generally like Saddiq Bey, but I don't think he'll be quite this calibre of shooter at the NBA level (though I do think he'll be good). The question is his other skills; he's a sort of alright defender but nothing super special, he's not a dreadful passer but he doesn't stand out there either. He's a little stiff, isn't particularly fluid or massively athletic. Has problems with lateral movement. I think that he may have some problems with tight hips, and it impacts the way he navigates around defenders when on offense.

    Doesn't ''pop''. I think Miller isn't actually a bad comparison, although I will add that Bey doesn't seem to have the same reluctance to shoot that Miller does; he's far more willing to let it fly, which has value in itself.

    Of the two Beys, I actually prefer Tyler. Much less equity as a shooter, but he's by far the superior defender, on both the team and individual levels, is a super passer, moves better, etc.

    Again, in this draft I don't think Saddiq would be a bad pickup necessarily, but I don't think he'd be my target.

  19. #219
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I largely agree here.

    I generally like Saddiq Bey, but I don't think he'll be quite this calibre of shooter at the NBA level (though I do think he'll be good). The question is his other skills; he's a sort of alright defender but nothing super special, he's not a dreadful passer but he doesn't stand out there either. He's a little stiff, isn't particularly fluid or massively athletic. Has problems with lateral movement. I think that he may have some problems with tight hips, and it impacts the way he navigates around defenders when on offense.

    Doesn't ''pop''. I think Miller isn't actually a bad comparison, although I will add that Bey doesn't seem to have the same reluctance to shoot that Miller does; he's far more willing to let it fly, which has value in itself.

    Of the two Beys, I actually prefer Tyler. Much less equity as a shooter, but he's by far the superior defender, on both the team and individual levels, is a super passer, moves better, etc.

    Again, in this draft I don't think Saddiq would be a bad pickup necessarily, but I don't think he'd be my target.
    I agree he looks a little stiff. However, Hart was not the Hart we see now coming out of college. His defense has become much better than when he came out.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    I agree he looks a little stiff. However, Hart was not the Hart we see now coming out of college. His defense has become much better than when he came out.
    That's fair. I wasn't really watching college ball with any kind of focus when Hart was still in college, so I wouldn't want to compare the two at-that-stage without going back and watching some Hart film at the time. It's also worth mentioning that Hart came out of college aged well into the age of 22, whereas Bey is only going to be about 21 when starts his rookie year, so while it's not a huge age difference it's worth noting.

  21. #221


    I just want to reiterate my love for Tillie for the millionth time

    If he wasn't a 4 year guy and was like, a sophomore or something, and was playing the way he's played this year he'd be a top 10 pick. Unfortunately he is an older guy, which pushes his draft stock down a bit, and he's had a couple of injuries (again, nothing serious but just little things that take him out games here and there), which pushes the stock down even further. His numbers are great, shooting great, defensive stats all pop, great passer, solid handle, etc etc.

    On a more ''feel'' based assessment, rather than anything to do with the box score, I just feel it in my gut that he would go so well with Zion and Jax. You could play Tillie at the 5 with Zion and use him as a passer and spacer from the 3pt line, and it would work. You could play him at the 4 with Jax, use him in the same role to create space without clogging up the lane in the standard way 2 bigs might. He's not ball dominant. He's an excellent and smart team defender.

    I know that the odds of us actually picking him are miniscule, but I would have a field day if we did.
    Last edited by Pelicanidae; 02-21-2020 at 12:03 AM.

  22. #222
    RIP BDJ AUSSIE_PELICAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    To be fair that defense was terrible.

  23. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    To be fair that defense was terrible.
    To be fair, in a league where Obi Toppin's going to be getting minutes, there's gonna be a share of dreadful defense in the NBA too

  24. #224







  25. #225
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    I do like tillie

    I see most. ocks projecting him in rd 2 . Could easily see him going in the 20s

    Skilled offensive big who fits the modern NBA

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