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Couldn't agree more, Zo is basically a quarterback. If he doesn't have receivers it limits him. Also affects his level of aggression.Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25
@Luckyman I wan't to disagree with you but you're right. Until Zo learns to drive and finish he's going to be wildly inconsistent as far as production is concerned.
I just find it funny how bad people over react. Last year 4-0 and this season 0-4.. We could so easily be 3-1 and just say 2-2 with 1 play going differently. This is without Zion arguably our best player and Jrue now missing his 2nd game. A few points of difference and this board would be talking how we might be the #3 seed with a chance at the Finals once Zion returns and blah blah.. Yet now the earth has caved in over our record.
Mid-season.. watch out for NAW, and Jaxson. Those two are going to be big for us if they get the minutes. Couple that with Jrue, and Zion, I still expect this team to be able to possibly get a playoff spot. All depends on how soon we can get Jrue and Zion back.
I completely agree he will be inconsistent and not as good until he improves here which is obvious. This process developing his ability to attack the rim is multiple things. His ability to pull up a mid range shot and hit his FTs.. These were big areas of his off season work to improve and that part of his game just isn’t where he wants it to be yet obviously. Even if he just becomes average attacking the rim his overall game is much more then just a mediocre player. Much of our rim attacking has been lost with Zion and Jrue..
Yes this isn’t over by any means. As much as I would love to make the playoffs that really is one of our last worries on this season. NAW and JAX are here for the next decade so no rush to have them carry a team as rookies. JAX and NAW are both going to be stars but JAX is a rare talent. I feel like we lost nothing with AD other then ADs prime years when I see what we have with JAX. He has everything AD had and looks that good but I think he will actually be an even better compliment to Zion. We don’t need to worry taking touches away from Zion feeding JAX 20 shots a game when his buckets just come with the flow of the game. Just like AD he impacts the game without touching the ball.
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 10-28-2019 at 11:24 PM.
I feel you, main thing is I just want them to get minutes. I think Jax is proving he deserves them.
His age is not excuse for having no drive skills. Thats usually the first thing good young guards can do best.
Depends what Pels get for him in a trade.
Exactly. If you can't drive well by age 22 then you're never going to be able to. His ceiling is really limited because of this
Also: he's not 21.
Sounds petty, but it's just a factual inaccuracy. He's not 21.
Basketball.
Yeah, part of it is just missing guys. We were, essentially, missing three starters tonight. I know that Zion hasn't actually played a game yet, but he's a starter the minute he comes back, so he counts imo.
That's no reason for the lack of defensive effort. The team as a whole looked like it just couldn't really be bothered for most of the game, and that's not really acceptable at any point in the year but especially right at the beginning, at home, when you're fighting for your first win against a very beatable team. That's when you should be scratching and clawing for every possession, because you need it.
Offense... well, other people have said it here and on twitter. We don't look like we know how to get JJ good looks. Part of that is missing guys with real gravity like Jrue, and Zion, so I'm not too concerned about that at this junction. But yeah, as much as some people might not want to admit it, Lonzo is having real trouble breaking down a defense. This inability to really drive, get to the hoop, draw defense and warp passing angles is something I criticised him for before we traded for him, since it actually limits his playmaking from ''creating'' shots, to simply being exceptional at ''finding'' shots. That's still a useful skill to have, but it isn't enough on it's own.
In fact, here's Lonzo's shot chart from tonight.
Lonzo Ball shot chart: 28th vs Golden State pic.twitter.com/YnxuWQ5HU2
— Pelicanidae (@Pelicanidae1) October 29, 2019
Lonzo took more shots from 25 feet or further than he did at the rim. That's just really not good. He took a 19 foot pull up when his primary defender was Damion Lee. That's just... really not good enough, frankly.
That's just one example of a player who really just wasn't good enough tonight.
In fact, here's Lonzo's shot chart through all of the first 4 games combined:
Lonzo Ball shot chart games 1-4 pic.twitter.com/Zi4QhDKc2V
— Pelicanidae (@Pelicanidae1) October 29, 2019
8 total shots within 10 feet of the basket, in 4 games. So he's averaging 2 shots within 10 feet of the rim per game.
By contrast, he has taken 25 shots from at least 25 feet. 6 a game, on average.
Lonzo Ball is currently shooting 3x more shots from 25 feet than at the rim.
That's bad.
I wonder if we undervalued Favors' defensive presence in the first three games.
Good positive energy.
But also, yo mama's fat.
Yea I agree for the most part. I think Ball is just going to be one of those players that needs thoroughbreds around him. He's like high octane fuel for a race engine.
Contributor
Is E'Twaun Moore hurt too or has he just disappeared?
It's that the Hornets unashamedly quit so quickly in Game 4 after fans in New Orleans showed up this season with greater regularity than the team could have ever dreamed, shaming misinformed know-it-alls like me who kept telling you that local residents couldn't possibly invest their time and money into something as trivial as rooting for the local basketball team while still recovering from the devastation of Hurricane Katrina. - Mark Stien ESPN
Ja Morant is impressive so far.
LoL about as petty and dumb as your prediction of Ingram being trash and below average lol.. Sorry forgot Lonzo had his birthday 2 days ago.. He’s 22 guys..
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 10-29-2019 at 01:21 AM.
He does have the skills to drive.. I pointed out reasons why he doesn’t in which people in his camp have even talked about. I just find it funny he can’t even be mediocre player do to not being a good driver to the basket. Yet Patrick Beverly can be a starting PG and big piece to a championship contending team.. Why? Or because he can drive and this guy does half the stuff Lonzo does.. Again it’s less about Lonzos ability and potential around the rim but more about not having that in his current arsenal as a comfort. He has been working on his mid range game just as hard as the 3pt which in turn will make it easier for him at the rim as well.
I can literally give you player after player making this simply untrue. It’s absolutely something a 22 year old guard can improve on entering just year 3 in the NBA after being a 1 and done. Do people follow basketball and all of the players in the NBA and see where they actually progressed from? Or just see them at their peak and pretended it has been since day 1? But yea I’ll take that advice that 22 year old guards don’t improve improve around the rim.
Yes I agree and there is nothing wrong with that. This team needs a player like him. We don’t need some 20+ ppg superstar PG that is great in every area of his game. It’s one nitpick after the other. First it was if he only improves his shooting which he has done this offseason and will continue to get better. Look at who we are surrounding this kid with.. We need him to do what he does which is he an elite defender, rebound, push the pace, hit open 3s, and make his FTs while being the very gifted passer he is. We have maybe one of the best st getting to the rim ever in Zion, Ingram can take anyone at anytime, and we have another young guard in NAW to take Jrues place eventually who is great at attacking the rim. Lonzo can be our better version of a Rondo or Beverly that every team needs and I’m fine with that. If he was doing all the things people are asking off a 22 year old kid he would be one of the best PGs in the NBA haha.
Jaxson Hayes shot chart: 28th vs Warriors pic.twitter.com/vY98aCz605
— Pelicanidae (@Pelicanidae1) October 29, 2019
Just wanna give Jax a shoutout too here. Obviously we were playing a team that wasn't exactly packed with size and quality defensive bigs, but for someone to come out in their debut and miss only 1 real shot (his other miss was the 60 foot hail Mary at the halftime buzzer) for 19 points is pretty cool.
Obviously he has a way to go in terms of rebounding and defense in space, but still, promising signs.
Favors is solid and his on ball defense is good.He's not much of a rim protector and neither is Okafor but this kid Hayes definitely is.I would actually put Hayes above Okafor in the rotation he has a real presence on both sides of the court.He's a perfect pick&roll lob guy.Very similar to Javale McGee and Clint Capella Favors and Okafor just don't have the athleticism to do it.Play the kid and let him develop.
Favors has debatably been a top 5 rim protector in the NBA for the last 3 or 4 years lol
Not just that, but we were getting absolutely annihilated by cuts and not rotating.....or just falling asleep. Yes, Zion and Jrue would have stymied that a bit but I think we're also underrating Favors there, too, as well as his rim protection.
Even missing as much as they are, the Warriors were the absolute worst matchup we could have drawn missing those pieces of our D. Their play style perfectly aligned against what we were lacking. Add on top of that the extra PEDs they were juiced up on after being embarrassed the game ebfore and it was a hindsight recipe for disaster.
Regarding Ball. The narrative before the season was "he sucks, he can't shoot" over and over and over, again, ad nauseam. The kid who is only 21 years and 367 days old (that's a statistical fact) works hard on his shot and it is noticeably improved. So the narrative changes to "he can't drive". That's just to fit an agenda. It's also a bit wrong. He has the skills to drive...he drives and dishes out extremely well. We want him to learn to drive and score. That is teachable. The foundation is there with the driving skills he just needs to accommodate that knowledge into layups.....but holy cow...let the kid grow. He worked on shooting this offseason, he can work on driving and scoring later.
Because even though he is only 21 years and 367 days old, we can all admit that something ia extremely wrong with the development at the Lakers. We can all agree on that. So development-wise he should be considered 21.
Last edited by msusousaphone; 10-29-2019 at 08:42 AM.
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