Lost tonight because Jrue Holiday continues to suck offensively.
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Lost tonight because Jrue Holiday continues to suck offensively.
I don't know how much I blame this on Gentry as in, his offense, per say. He is trying to make the pieces from the AD trade look good. The problem is, Lonzo does not look good in our starting lineup.
No. Regardless of that, Jrue plays semi-decently in either of these games and we win hands down. Jrue is his own worst enemy. I don’t know whether he is anxious or has some ADD. He isn’t mentally strong enough to be the leader we need him to be.Originally Posted by Dr. Sting
Josh Hart should be in the starting line up. Redick is nice offensively but they barely run plays for him. Hart would be more impactful in the starting line up.
I had no expectations this season other than hoping for no serious injuries and settling on the core for the next few seasons. This team needs to play together. When more than 60% of your team is turned over each year you ain't winning ****.
He does have to sit the guys down and get them running plays when things go sour. If we go a FULL 10-20 minute stretch of predominately iso ball, that is on him.
Interestingly enough, Jrue has a history of starting the season off weak. Last season was OK, but if you check out the few before that, he's got some absolute duds. His worst games of his career almost all happen the first few gsmes of the season. After that he is pretty consistent. He's got this.
Good positive energy.
But also, yo mama's fat.
Also at this point let NAW sit for a few games. No need to rush him out there. Frank deserves more minutes. Get this god damn rotation down.
Yep, I actually posted the stats earlier in the thread from last year. In the first 2 games last year, he averaged 12 points on 43% shooting and 0% from three.
Basketball.
Pels had 28 PITP in the first quarter, 26 in the final three quarters.
— David M. Grubb (@DMGrubb) October 26, 2019
Hmm I wonder if this has anything to do with withe the extreme lack of Derrick Favors after the first quarter?
Gotcha. Just getting in from a kids bday party.
His years before that were way worse. I may have missed that, too.
Yep. It's just how he is. It's definitely frustrating, and it certainly has been a big factor in these two losses, but the outrage over him and ''oh he better smarten up soon or he's on the block!'' talk is just reactionary knee-jerk stuff. The reality is, he's not supposed to be our number 1 guy. He's the number 2 guy, after Zion. That's the whole thing. Combine that with the fact that he always takes a few games to warm up, and it's no surprise he looks a little out of it. Not the end of the world.
Truth
Another tough loss! Was hoping we could pick up a W tonight. It’s only 2nd game of season I know, but with Houston on the road next, don’t want this young team to dig too deep of a hole to dig out of early.
Ingram finished his availability by talking about his defense on KP. Said KP still came away with too many points and that he needed to stay in front of him more. KP was 8-of-17 overall ... and just 2/7 vs. BI.
— Andrew Lopez (@_Andrew_Lopez) October 26, 2019
I mentioned that to BI and he shot back:
"Should've been 0-of-7"
That's the best answer he could have given.
Ingram again put together a great game. 25 points , 8 rebounds, 3 assists, and 3 blocks while shooting 4-7 3pt and 50% FG. He is also being asked to play out of position at PF spending much of his time guarding bigs even giving Porzingis trouble at times. His defensive versatility is very rare. As I have stated before he is much stronger then he looks and his weight is such a non issue especially when he is actually playing his natural position SF. Core strength and 10-15 lbs max is what he needs to work on. Only 22 years old and will be a perfect compliment for Zion for the next decade. A versatile 2 way wing who is good for 20+ a night and can create his own shot at will while also having point forward ability is exactly what we need as one of the pieces next to Zion. One of the best young compliments in the NBA for him and time will show.
I actually like Lonzo shooting the 3 and had 1 more gone down he would have been 4-10 shooting 40%. Now does that mean he needs to shoot 10 a night absolutely not but he needs to take 3s when they are there and have a few plays set up for him as we saw tonight also. I think his value to this team is attributed to Zion more then anything. So not having Zion really hurts Lonzos game imo. When he returns I really think we see some big changes in how much better he looks do to his ability to make passes others can’t.
Plain and simple Jrue needs to step up. With Jrue just being an average offensively we are 2-0. We need consistency from him while Zion is out and I’m confident if we can get the Jrue we know going on all cylinders to lead this group we can be a very solid team until Zion comes back.
We are missing our best player right before the season. People need to pump the brakes as we lost 2 very close games to good NBA teams. I’m still very excited by what I have seen and what we are capable of. The rotations will get tighter and better as we go just give it some time. Go Pels!!
Josh Hart needs to start at SF
Frank Jackson needs to see 23+ minutes a game going forward
NAW shouldn’t see as much playing time until he can show better shooting efficiency
JJ Redick shouldn’t have 22 minutes and only go 1-3, basically holding up someone else’s playing time and allowing the wrong players to take unnecessary shots
Jrue’s missed shots is allowing opponents to create leads and pile on
He is an elite defender which is one thing nobody ever wanted to factor in we were getting a 2 way player. He has length rivaled by only KD and Giannis for his position. I watched him many nights guarding and shutting down the other teams best players at multiple positions. This is an area he will only continue getting better as well. Putting his versatility defensively next to Zion is scary good.
I agree, Frank needs more playing time. The people spelling Frank’s demise (after we drafted NAW) were extremely exaggerated.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
I completely agree we need to swap JJ and Hart in the rotation. I think we should always keep JJ coming off the bench as a specialist to come in and light it up from 3. Maybe he finishes some games maybe some he doesn’t. Hart is a much better overall player who is a 2 way player that can still hit 40% from 3pt. I think for now he is a better fit in the starting unit giving us a versatile 3&D wing.
I think JJ definitely should have had more shots but a lot of the way our game played out of kind of killed the chances for us to get him his shots. His minutes will vary nightly.
I also wanted to say I loved the distribution of minutes. I think Gentry did a great job of getting everyone deserving very respectable minutes. Outside of NAW all of the bench players gave us solid nights and earned their minutes. NAW is going to have his nights where he goes off but just a matter of time. I’m just hoping he does it sooner then later so he doesn’t see a minute drop.
I really hope we can move Moore somewhere he can get the minutes he deserves. We are just so stacked at guard we are already having to slash into minutes for guys I would like to see more of and that’s with 0 minutes from Moore. I think a lot of teams could use him on their bench and lots of contenders at that. I would like to see us trade for a wing with some length that can play SF/PF with Kenrich and Ingram really the only 2 players that fit that mold on our roster. I am a huge fan of Zylan Cheatham filling that role at end of the bench and whoever we trade Moore for I don’t want taking any minutes at all so preferably a draft pick. We already have to many draft picks already and we will definitely not use them all but it does allow us to maybe bundle some to get a certain player in the draft we really like. The more picks we have the more ammo to do what we want.
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 10-25-2019 at 11:15 PM.
I only was able to watch the 1st quarter, and came out thoroughly intrigued. Then I saw Jrue's statline when the game ended. What the hell happened to him?
Taking a look at postgame shot-charts again.
Ingram shot chart: 25th October vs Mavs pic.twitter.com/k97q1HSYrk
— Pelicanidae (@Pelicanidae1) October 26, 2019
Here's Ingram's shot chart from this game. It's really good. He did a great job tonight of selecting his shot values: obviously some of the shots were isoball that we don't like, but with the offense as poor as it was today that's more forgivable. The only shot that was a 'bad' shot is that random 21 footer that he dribbled into for no reason, but if he's only going to take one long two a game, that's a bit improvement. This is the kind of shot profile that we want him to be taking. He only shot 50% at the rim, which isn't great, but the Mavs do have a pretty good rim protector in Porzingis so that's a little more forgivable, even though we would want it to improve.
Obviously the player who had the worst game in terms of scoring is Jrue. Here's his chart:
Jrue shot chart: 25th October vs Mavs pic.twitter.com/6wOfpwRya0
— Pelicanidae (@Pelicanidae1) October 26, 2019
As you can see, in terms of the shots he's actually taking it's not that bad (aside from that one random shot from behind the backboard). So it's not like he's doing weird stuff; his shots are coming either from beyond the arc or at the rim. His issue, I think, is two-fold. Firstly, he's just cold. You can't really help that, and hopefully he gets over it soon. Secondly though, I think he's hesitating at times and not really deciding what he's going to do until he's already too committed to a particular motion. He needs to be be more decisive: aggressive Jrue is best Jrue.
Lonzo shot chart: 25th October vs Mavs pic.twitter.com/PNpFhTWMP7
— Pelicanidae (@Pelicanidae1) October 26, 2019
This is Lonzo's shot chart. This is... uh... not optimal. As you can see, only 3 attempts at the rim. That's a real issue, because obviously shots at the rim should be priority number one most of the time: they're just the most efficient shots if you can get them. But yeah, let's look at the 12 three pointers.
Lonzo took 12 three pointers. That's a lot. More than just how many he took though, the problems are where he's taking them. Firstly, only one of his 12 attempts was from a corner: those are the easiest 3 pointers, and he had the chance more than once to pull from there. In fact, that one random 16 foot pullup jumper was one he dribbled into when he could have taken the three from behind the screen closer to the corner, which would have been a much better shot in terms of value.
But more concerning than that, is the second thing: of his 12 three point attempts, 7 of them were from 26 feet or further including a 29 footer. Lonzo isn't just taking a lot of threes, he's launching them from deeeeeeep. Why? He's not a good enough shooter yet to warrant taking SEVEN shots from that far beyond the arc. That's just poor shot selection. A lot of this, I think, results from his inability to confidently and consistently drive. This has been discussed in the past, but Lonzo is a very poor finisher at the rim, and that inability to finish impacts his confidence on drives: he simply doesn't like to do it. Of course, that impacts his ability elsewhere, since he can't collapse a defense consistently for his passing to take over, and he can't use the threat of driving to open up his threes which means many of them are contested.
We need to see him improving his confidence in drives and really trying to create better looks for himself instead of launching these 25+ foot bombs all the time. That's settling, and settling isn't good enough.
On the plus side, overall, the team legitimately only took three shots in the ''midrange'', outside of the paint and inside of the arc. That's a good shot profile that we should seek to generally emulate going forward. The issue is just that we should try making the shots instead of missing them
Its going to be hard to beat good teams when one of your main players barely putting up 10 points.
Jrue didnt have the turnover problem but he needs to start playing like a fringe all star on both ends. Jrue drove the lane and missed a chip shot. Doncic did the same an scored. Then came back and scored a bank 3.
And Gentry screwed up rotations once again. He is trying to milk his wholesale bench mob for too long. If they can get a lead for you or bring you back then great. They did their job. But you cant leave them all out there possession after possession when the other team has already trickled in their main players again. Josh Hart is the only bench player that should be getting extended run. He's your 6th man now.
No excuse for Redick and Favors to only have 20 minutes tonight.
Look at the bright side we might at least beat the Warriors this season.
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