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Love how Gentry mentions Fred Vinson in that interview. ''Took Tyreke and made him a 39% shooter when he was 27%''.
That's actually about right. Tyreke shot 26.8% from deep over his first 5 years. Within 2 years in New Orleans, he was a 38.8% shooter on 3.5 attempts per game. From that season on, he shot 37.7% over the subsequent 4 seasons on 3.8 attempts per game (admittedly, these were injury ridden seasons so the total game sample size isn't as large as 4 seasons implies: only 186 games).
Basketball.
Well obviously they're saying it because they've seen some Lakers fans doing it.. My point is, was a scientific poll or survey conducted? Do you have a percentage of how many fans feel this way? Any sense of whether or not it is a majority or minority view?Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
Why build a narrative or express agitation based on the viewpoints of individuals who likely represent a minority?
Whether discussing football, basketball, or any other sport. The "blank fans think" comments are odd to me.
No, nobody has a scientific poll, or survey, and guess what?
NOBODY NEEDS ONE
The post you were replying to specifically says:
You know what that means? It means he wasn't even referring to all Lakers fans. He had specified a sub-group: that is, those Lakers fans who were gassing Lonzo's trade value up and have now turned on him. That's a significant portion, from my experience, but even if it wasn't, even if it was only 10 Lakers fans in the ENTIRE WORLD, it wouldn't matter. Because he specified the subgroup he was referring to.
Your original response ignored that in order to pull some ''not all Lakers fans!'' nonsense. OF COURSE not all Lakers fans. That would be why he DIDN'T SAY all Lakers fans, and instead pointed out the group he was referring to.
You've done this before, taking obvious references to specific groups or trends of Lakers fans and decontextualising them in order to try and make them sound like Lakers fans are some kind of unfairly targeted group. Please, I am begging you, learn how colloquial language works. Carnap was wrong, and that's okay.
Think about what you just posted.. "It means he wasn't even referring to all Lakers fans." But he say's.. "all those Laker fans that was gassing Lonzo up trade value".. So he's saying every single Lakers fan that gassed Lonzo up are now saying negative things about him. Which simply isn't true.. I would argue you've done this before as well.. and that's misrepresent what's being communicated, and muddle context.
Most of the Laker fans I know who didn't like Ball still don't like him. The ones who do, still do.. I don't want to go back and forth with you though, it has proven pointless on many occasions. This subject matter also has no relevance to the actual thread topic.
Extremely odd of you to see a throwaway comment from Taker, then, and start drawing it out into a discussion, no?
Listen, I get it if seeing people say things that are negative about the Lakers and their fanbase grates on you. That's fine, you are/have been a Lakers fan, I get it. But this is a New Orleans Pelicans board: nobody is under any obligation to be nice to LA, or their fanbase, many of whom have spent the last 18 months or so being absolute demons to us with regards to AD, our ''trash team'', our ''poverty franchise'' etc etc. If someone makes a throwaway comment that paints some Lakers fans in a negative light, then that's just too bad.
Last edited by Pelicanidae; 10-02-2019 at 05:34 PM.
Not worried about his mechanics. Worried about when a player accidently takes his feet out and he lands awkwardly. Pick up and game are a whole different animal.
Sure, but the mechanics directly apply to the landing. He's much less likely to land awkwardly if he has good mechanics than if he has poor ones.
Of course, anyone can land awkwardly. If you play 82 NBA games, you're going to jump probably close to 1000 times, either for dunks or tip-ins, or rebounds, or jump balls, or blocks, whatever. Even if you have great mechanics, if you jump 1000 times, you're probably going to have a couple of awkward landings. There's pretty much no way around that other than forbidding Zion from jumping, and it's a similar principle: unless you want to forbid him from jumping in practice, he's going to have to do it because that's his game and he's never going to improve if you don't let him do it.
So we bite our tongue, cross our fingers, count on the training staff and Aaron Nelson, and Zion's mechanics. It's worrying, sure, but what else are you gonna do, tell him not to go for the game winning oop?
I wouldn't characterize his comment as a throwaway. He expressed what he felt. I didn't agree with it is all, my intent wasn't to "start drawing it out into a discussion".
Not every exchange necessitates a lengthy back and forth, nor do they need to devolve into contention and veiled insults..
But if I don't do that, how can I acquire the highest post-count on the site?
Again this is you again muddling the argument. This isn't about me being a Lakers fan. This isn't about this being a Pelicans board. As I said before, it wouldn't matter to me if we were discussing football or any other sport. Focus.. Don't read more into my statements.. Try not to glean motive.. Just judge it based purely on the substance of what's communicated. Is there truth in what I said?
By continuing to post what I believe to be good content.. =) Our exchanges have been less than ideal for the most part lol.. But I can't help but give you credit for being a quality poster.
That'll be a lot easier once the dang season starts. This summer has been ROUGH.
For me the waiting has been rough.. I believe the Pels have had a great summer, considering they lost a franchise player. How fortunate to lose a player the caliber of AD, while at the same time replacing him with a potential hall of famer/freak of nature.. Can't wait to see this team shatter expectations..
Also looking forward to Okafor making a lot of people eat their words. That kid has a lot of talent, I believe he's been unfairly criticized.
I agree. Really, I don't think it's possible to lose a guy like AD (who I firmly believe is a top 5 talent and, on his best day, is as good as basically anyone) and recover better than the Pelicans have this summer. I mean, how often do you lose the best player in franchise history, and the season afterwards actually looks brighter? That's unbelievable.
I feel good about Okafor as well. There's no question that when he came into the league, he could score, but it was in an antiquated fashion, and he was an absolute turnstile on defense, as well as a black hole in terms of passing. He was criticised for that, and he deserved a lot of it, but he's done a great job turning it around. Physically, he's probably never been better. Dropped a huge amount of weight coming into last season and showed a lot of improvement on the defensive end. He'll never be elite there (I don't think he will, anyway) but he's an efficient enough scorer and big enough body that even being serviceable on D will mean a lot for him.
Okafor will probably never live up to his draft position, but after nearly falling out of the league I think he's done a lot to secure himself a career.
Yea you're right, he did earn the criticisms he received for his defense.. I just felt like a lot of people wrote him off, you'd even read/hear comments and articles about him most likely falling out of the league entirely.
I'm also a bit biased maybe.. sense I still believe there's a place in this league for big men who can get you high percentage opportunities to score on the box.
Well, that escalated quickly unbeknownst to me.
The funny thing about all of it. Fans trying to gas up player trade value like what they say even matter is wild lol..
I do think there's a place for them, I just feel like that place isn't super prominent anymore. Diversifying your game can never hurt, and in a league which has trended more and more towards semi-positionless ball, where everyone switches on defense and plays two or three positions on offense, being a relatively slow footed big who can only play center on both O and D is a huge limitation.
Will Okafor ever be a star? I doubt it. Will he ever be a 30 minute a night guy in today's NBA? Again, doubt it.
Is there a place for him to earn 10-15 mpg a night and contribute decently depending on matchups and stuff, just to come in and get a few post moves in and deter other big men? I certainly think there is, and congrats to him for essentially realising that he had to lose that weight, gain that speed, and change his game a little. Lots of players can't make those adjustments once their calling card fades from prominence *cough* Carmelo Anthony *cough*
Yea that's all valid.. I'm holding on to hope though lol. Tim Duncan was somewhat limited mobility wise, but he managed to be a really good defender. Maybe JO can end up being a dollar value version of Tim.. With that being said he's likely to be what you've projected.
Duncan was only limited with regards to mobility in his later years. If you go back and re-watch some of his games from before around 2005, he was actually a lot more mobile than most people remember. Rookie Tim Duncan even spent some time at what was essentially small forward, when Pop was rolling out a lineup where he shared the court with The Admiral and Will Purdue.
Plus, one of the things that helped Duncan be an incredible defender his entire career is that he had ridiculous fundamentals and an absurdly high basketball IQ. With all due respect to Jahlil, he doesn't possess anything like the innate understanding of the game that Duncan did, and that's very hard to learn.
One thing I really enjoy looking through from time to time is the BackPicks GOAT list, which attempts to track the 40 best NBA careers in history. It's maintained by Ben Taylor, the same guy who runs the Thinking Basketball YouTube Channel and podcast, if you know him, and it relies on a lot of film, a lot of advanced stats, etc etc. He updates it at the end of every season. He has Tim Duncan ranked 7th all time, and some of the stats he provides in there to back up that position are incredible. Interesting key stats that jump out:
- Duncan provided around 4 good defensive rotations per 100, and 1 elite. That's about 2.5x as frequently as prime Shaq.
- Incredibly low error defender: was still in the 91st percentile as late as 2010-11
- 11 seasons above the 94th percentile as a defensive rebounder, peaking in the 99th percentile
- 13 consecutive seasons above the 86th percentile as an offensive rebounder, starting as a rookie
- 3 of the top 50 individual DRPM seasons of all time, with a 4 year defensive peak second only to Dikembe Mutombo
If Okafor could ever be a dollar store Tim Duncan, he'd immediately be a starter, an all-defense candidate, and worth tens of millions of dollars
Here's the link if you ever wanna look at it: http://www.backpicks.com/2018/03/22/...-7-tim-duncan/
Edit: I know you weren't really comparing Okafor to Duncan, I just can't resist the urge to ramble about stats. Especially when it comes to Duncan, who I see underrated so often by so many people (not you, just in general).
Yea I loved Tim, I'd also agree with a top 7 ranking. I guess what I meant by limited mobility is that once he lost a step he was still a good defender, the stats you posted highlight why. The guy was just an intelligent basketball player.
Thanks for raining on my parade lol.. You've made the case that even a dollar value Duncan ceiling is far fetched. lol
Tell him to swing on the rim until the ball is inbounded, lol.
Jrue Holiday: "Back in the day, point guards set people up, made the right passes. Their role was to quote-unquote make everybody happy, get everybody into a groove. I feel like nowadays it's more of a score-first mentality. But we’re not sleeping on the pass-first (guards) HERE"
— Jim Eichenhofer (@Jim_Eichenhofer) October 3, 2019
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