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Thread: Christian Wood Waived

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    I've already called for the Pelicans to move Moore to get more playing time for the younger players but there are certain truths that need to be considered.

    Moore protects the ball....in fact his assist to turnover ratio is 2.00 to 1 (considered a good ratio). Interestingly, Jrue Holiday's ratio is 2.37 to 1 and Lonzo Ball's is 2.67 to 1....both well above average. Contrast these ratios with NAW's college ratio (1.23 to 1) or his summer statistics (1.38 to 1)….both below average figures. So a case could be made for NAW to be behind Moore in the pecking order. I don't necessarily think this should be the case, but I do think we all undervalue Moore's worth (myself included).
    I think that's a case of just counting box score stats without considering circumstances, to be honest.

    Moore's assist to turnover ratio is good, because the amount of ball handling he is trusted to actually do is very low. He's rarely called upon to create or run offense, or to generate offense for other players. Part of the reason he rarely gets given that responsibility is that he's not good at it: his handle is relatively loose and undisciplined, his vision is average at best, and he's not a creative passer. As a result of that, he doesn't turn it over very often, sure, but he also isn't capable of the same actual creation that someone like Jrue is, and I think that's also true for NAW. Obviously you turn the ball over more if you're handling it more, and also if you're tasked with actually creating looks, which are things Moore is almost never required to do.
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  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I think that's a case of just counting box score stats without considering circumstances, to be honest.

    Moore's assist to turnover ratio is good, because the amount of ball handling he is trusted to actually do is very low. He's rarely called upon to create or run offense, or to generate offense for other players. Part of the reason he rarely gets given that responsibility is that he's not good at it: his handle is relatively loose and undisciplined, his vision is average at best, and he's not a creative passer. As a result of that, he doesn't turn it over very often, sure, but he also isn't capable of the same actual creation that someone like Jrue is, and I think that's also true for NAW. Obviously you turn the ball over more if you're handling it more, and also if you're tasked with actually creating looks, which are things Moore is almost never required to do.
    Fair. But how (if at all) do four turnovers a game in summer ball competition and his abysmal college Assist to Turnover ratio translate to regular season league play for NAW?
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  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    Fair. But how (if at all) do four turnovers a game in summer ball competition and his abysmal college Assist to Turnover ratio translate to regular season league play for NAW?
    In college, NAW spent his first year entirely at shooting guard, and that's how his second year started as well. He got moved to lead guard after Virginia Tech's actual PG got injured, and NAW basically learned how to be the PG on the job. There was obviously a learning curve associated with that, and to a large extent, that's part of that issue.

    In Summer League, there's a similar issue at hand, but on a slightly different scale: the passes NAW was attempting in SL were, often, very very difficult passes, and due to the lack of other offensive threats and playmakers on the floor (remember, Carr was our backup PG somehow), it was fairly common for NAW to be asked to run every single play, and for him to be double or even triple teamed during that time. If that's what's happening, and you're making ambitious passes, you are gonna turn it over. That's just life. Obviously the best of the best turn it over LESS, in comparison with the looks they generate (Nash, Magic, Lebron, etc) but they all still had relatively high turnover numbers in comparison with safer passers (the best example of that is probably Stockton, who averaged relatively low turnover numbers despite absurd assists, because so many of them came in the pick and roll with Malone, a fairly standard play).

    Now, I'm not comparing NAW with Nash or Lebron, obviously not. Their vision is/was basically supernatural, and NAW's seems to be merely ''damned good''. But when he gets to the NBA and has other guys who can provide a threat that needs to be defended against, NAW will find a lot more space than he got in SL, and I'd expect the turnovers to come down a little. Not massively, he's still a rookie after all, but I'd expect the AS/TO to come more towards 2 as the season progresses.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    In college, NAW spent his first year entirely at shooting guard, and that's how his second year started as well. He got moved to lead guard after Virginia Tech's actual PG got injured, and NAW basically learned how to be the PG on the job. There was obviously a learning curve associated with that, and to a large extent, that's part of that issue.

    In Summer League, there's a similar issue at hand, but on a slightly different scale: the passes NAW was attempting in SL were, often, very very difficult passes, and due to the lack of other offensive threats and playmakers on the floor (remember, Carr was our backup PG somehow), it was fairly common for NAW to be asked to run every single play, and for him to be double or even triple teamed during that time. If that's what's happening, and you're making ambitious passes, you are gonna turn it over. That's just life. Obviously the best of the best turn it over LESS, in comparison with the looks they generate (Nash, Magic, Lebron, etc) but they all still had relatively high turnover numbers in comparison with safer passers (the best example of that is probably Stockton, who averaged relatively low turnover numbers despite absurd assists, because so many of them came in the pick and roll with Malone, a fairly standard play).

    Now, I'm not comparing NAW with Nash or Lebron, obviously not. Their vision is/was basically supernatural, and NAW's seems to be merely ''damned good''. But when he gets to the NBA and has other guys who can provide a threat that needs to be defended against, NAW will find a lot more space than he got in SL, and I'd expect the turnovers to come down a little. Not massively, he's still a rookie after all, but I'd expect the AS/TO to come more towards 2 as the season progresses.

    Plus, I presume that there were assists to be had in college that just weren't converted on the receiving end. I like him a lot (he may prove to be the steal of the draft), but I hate TO's; they drive me nuts. Turnovers are shots that never happened and can't be made up.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    Plus, I presume that there were assists to be had in college that just weren't converted on the receiving end. I like him a lot (he may prove to be the steal of the draft), but I hate TO's; they drive me nuts. Turnovers are shots that never happened and can't be made up.
    That's part of it, for sure. I mean, just taking SL as an example, he had two turnovers in one quarter alone where he threw the ball to Bigby Williams, and Williams just fumbled it. Bad hands that either couldn't catch, or poor awareness that wasn't ready for a pass. That counts as a turnover for NAW, but in reality he did everything right: his stat suffered because there's no ''dropped due to bad hands'' box score figure for the big. In the NBA, those passes would have been converted. Favors would have caught them, Okafor would have caught them, Hayes would have caught them. Even smaller guys like Jrue or Ingram would have caught them, no doubt in my mind. But with SL team-mates, you get SL limitations.

  6. #56
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    There is no doubt Hayes is better than Diallo right now. Not just better.... I think heís wayyyy better. Diallo off the ball movement is sloppy and he is smaller than Hayes and less athletic and his ability to anticipate shots to block is not near as good as Hayes.

    Dialloís transition defense and transition offense isnit even close to Hayes. Our team is similar to a Princeton offense with a lot of motion and attacking in transition on both ends. Diallo sucks at this. Wood isnít great at this. Hayes is awesome for the style of play Gentry is doing this season.

    I would even argue that Hayes could get more minutes than Okafor or equal minutes if he stays out of foul trouble and doesnít turn the ball over. Heís 7 feet and can fly past any player on the court. If Hayes faced Diallo 1 on 1 I think heíd destroy him. I love how yíall are underestimating his ability to contribute this season sooner than later.

    I think Moore is going to be traded at the trade deadline unless Griff see him truly sticking around and being healthy under a decent contract similar to Iggy from GSW. Playing 5-7 more years is not impossible. If heís happy and performing well then Iím all for keeping him and trading Jackson and other pieces to get more assets to move up in the 2020 draft. I think itís much more likely we move Moore for a late 1st rounder.

    It make sense to move Moore because of his age and salary. But, in the meantime, I think heís going to mentor these kids really well if or before he is moved.

    NAW and Hayes can earn playing time and both seem to be fast learners with a TON of potential. My God, this team could be amazing if everything clicks. My big hope is we stay healthy, Jrue and Ball have a great year and Zion gives teams a lot of problems.


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  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    There is no doubt Hayes is better than Diallo right now. Not just better.... I think he’s wayyyy better. Diallo off the ball movement is sloppy and he is smaller than Hayes and less athletic and his ability to anticipate shots to block is not near as good as Hayes.

    Diallo’s transition defense and transition offense isnit even close to Hayes. Our team is similar to a Princeton offense with a lot of motion and attacking in transition on both ends. Diallo sucks at this. Wood isn’t great at this. Hayes is awesome for the style of play Gentry is doing this season.

    I would even argue that Hayes could get more minutes than Okafor or equal minutes if he stays out of foul trouble and doesn’t turn the ball over. He’s 7 feet and can fly past any player on the court. If Hayes faced Diallo 1 on 1 I think he’d destroy him. I love how y’all are underestimating his ability to contribute this season sooner than later.

    I think Moore is going to be traded at the trade deadline unless Griff see him truly sticking around and being healthy under a decent contract similar to Iggy from GSW. Playing 5-7 more years is not impossible. If he’s happy and performing well then I’m all for keeping him and trading Jackson and other pieces to get more assets to move up in the 2020 draft. I think it’s much more likely we move Moore for a late 1st rounder.

    It make sense to move Moore because of his age and salary. But, in the meantime, I think he’s going to mentor these kids really well if or before he is moved.

    NAW and Hayes can earn playing time and both seem to be fast learners with a TON of potential. My God, this team could be amazing if everything clicks. My big hope is we stay healthy, Jrue and Ball have a great year and Zion gives teams a lot of problems.


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    "DNP - Coach's Decision" in Box Score would have a detrimental effect in the development of Jaxson Hayes. More than anything, Hayes needs PT. He will never get it in New Orleans playing behind Favors and Okafor. He will be in Erie, PA until further notice.

    NAW, on the other hand, will stay with the big club but may also fall victim to "DNP - Coach's Decision" more often than not.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    "DNP - Coach's Decision" in Box Score would have a detrimental effect in the development of Jaxson Hayes. More than anything, Hayes needs PT. He will never get it in New Orleans playing behind Favors and Okafor. He will be in Erie, PA until further notice.

    NAW, on the other hand, will stay with the big club but may also fall victim to "DNP - Coach's Decision" more often than not.
    I think it's crazy how you have Griff literally saying during the SL games, in no uncertain terms, that they initially had plans to redshirt Hayes for his first year and bring him into the team proper next season, but that the way he's played and the way he's interacted with the staff during practices has changed their mind and that the redshirt idea is out of the window, and you're still arguing that he will ''be in Eerie, PA, until further notice''. How much more notice do you need than the VP of Basketball Operations literally saying it out loud that he will NOT be in a redshirt season, and that while he might ''probably'' not many minutes but that he won't be sitting out the year.

    Like, does Griff need to personally ice it onto a cake and send it to you?

  9. #59
    We can argue about it until we're blue in the face; you and I just need to agree to disagree on this one. One of us will be wrong and one of us will be right.

    It serves absolutely no useful purpose for Hayes, with his limited basketball training to sit on the end of a bench...OBSERVING (at least half the time he would be inactive). He needs practical experience....experience he won't get here in New Orleans. I've already gone over his immature body type, his lack of practical experience, and yada...yada...yada. I liken Hayes to a young five-tool baseball player. That player would be better served honing his skills while playing in the minors until he is ready to make the big jump to the majors rather than being lost as the 25th man on 25 man roster. If you want to risk destroying him before he even gets started, keep him in New Orleans...if you want to see him thrive and flourish, allow him to grow his game and physically mature in Erie. There are no shortcuts to success...let the young man learn. Remember, he might be able to jump out the gym, but that doesn't make him NBA ready at this point.
    Last edited by As I See It; 07-16-2019 at 03:29 AM.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    We can argue about it until we're blue in the face; you and I just need to agree to disagree on this one. One of us will be wrong and one of us will be right.

    It serves absolutely no useful purpose for Hayes, with his limited basketball training to sit on the end of a bench...OBSERVING (at least half the time he would be inactive). He needs practical experience....experience he won't get here in New Orleans. I've already gone over his immature body type, his lack of practical experience, and yada...yada...yada. I liken Hayes to a young five-tool baseball player. That player would be better served honing his skills while playing in the minors until he is ready to make the big jump to the majors rather than being lost as the 25th man on 25 man roster. If you want to risk destroying him before he even gets started, keep him in New Orleans...if you want to see him thrive and flourish, allow him to grow his game and physically mature in Erie. There are no shortcuts to success...let the young man learn. Remember, he might be able to jump out the gym, but that doesn't make him NBA ready at this point.
    But is he really better served competing against INFERIOR players? I think he's better off with the Pels, learning the offense and defense, going through training camp, learning and being mentored daily against guys like Favors and Okafor, learning the culture of the NBA, and being watched and coached daily by Gentry and staff. To me that outweighs the actual minutes he'd play against G-league players.

  11. #61
    I think one of the factors regarding Jaxson that seems to be overlooked is fan experience. Fact of the matter is Hayes will make for a better fan experience as well as giving the young man on court time. In order to help the Pels achieve their overall goal we the fans and the players need butts in the seats to make the smoothie king rock. The more exciting players we see the more fans will attend games the better the players will play and enjoy playing in front of a packed crowd. That will encourage players to stay longer as well. In short, Jaxson is exciting to watch so keeping him here instead of in a far off land is a good business decision and will help us achieve our long term goals.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Like I said, I think your way of judging the 4 and 5 positions is kind of anachronistic and doesn't really apply to the NBA in 2019. So we're just going to disagree on that.

    It's funny, I've got you on here saying that my ''personal issue'' with Moore is stopping me being honest, and I've got people on twitter yelling at me because I said that Moore could be considered an asset So apparently I'm in some weird limbo where I'm under and over-valuing Moore at the same time. Fantastic. Strange how that works, I guess. I do think Moore has several skills that he is good at. It's true that he's a good shooter. It's also true that he has a very good floater game. It's also true that he had some 30 point games, although what that tells you, I have no idea.

    He's also undersized, not a part of our future as a franchise given that he's 30, expiring, and not a top tier player like Jrue who is valuable despite that. I think he did as well as you could expect him to guarding the 3, but he didn't actually do a very good job of it objectively, and that's why Jrue drew all the most difficult assignments at that position. Moore cannot be trusted to run an offense, is trigger-shy on his threes, has a mediocre at best handle, doesn't really rebound, etc etc. His game has huge flaws in it, and unlike a young player who we have time to develop, I'm not going to get into the habit of giving the benefit of the doubt to 30 year old expirings.

    I've gathered that you see Hayes in the G League, you've said it tons of times. I still have yet to see a good justification for that, no matter whether it's you or someone else saying it. I stand by what I've said about 50 times now: if you think Hayes can't even get 10 minutes as the backup's backup, then you have to explain to me why you think he's worse than Diallo, and you also have to explain to me why you think the G League is better for developing a player than actually having them with the team, practicing with the team, and playing against real NBA competition.

    i did justify hayes as being inactive or in the g-league.....i said i dont see gentry going with 5 bigs on this deep team....plus moore was starting last season and was solid....gentry ran a 8 man rotation with miller,,randle and hill.....hill was not giving us anything so gentry went to a 7 man rotation......we traded for johnson and he was getting pt over hill.......at one point randle was the only player scoring off the bench giving us almost 20 a game......bench was not giving us anything so gentry moved moore to the bench to add scoring off the bench and was starting miller or johnson.........again moore was good in the coming off the bench role....

    now my whole point with moore is that to me i see moore is a gentry guy....gentry trust moore....plus moving moore to the second unit give us scoring,,defense and a solid role player that gentry trust......i just dont see hayes getting a roster spot over moore giving what i see in how gentry uses moore in his offense.....

    last season gentry used 3 bigs,,AD,niko and randle.......diallo was the 4th big and only was playing when we had a injury or maybe if a big fouled out.....okafor was the 5th big.......again gentry only ran a 8 man rotation with that team in the beginning and that team was not deep like this 2019-20 is........we are deep at guard and wing players so i just believe that gentry will load the team up with those type of players and go with 4 bigs in zion,,favors,,melli and okafor.....okafor can play bully ball in the paint when we need to......i just dont see hayes getting a spot over those 4 and moore......

    now jackson has been putting in work over the summer and to me he seem like he is ready to make a jump up the ladder....jackson got his confidence last season and showed promise.....i dont see jackson giving up playing time to a rookie in NAW this season.......i dont see gentry having 3 rookies on the active roster over vets like moore,,,jackson and hart and when we are playing for the 8th seed....imo i dont see that going down.....now , we will revisit this in october when the truth comes out....

    like i said earlier...its good that we can have these hard fought discussions on here in july over our team...cutting wood have people mad....it just show how deep this team is and give us hope after the AD trade that we just may be in the playoffs after alot of people buried us including some of our own ....

  13. #63
    Gentry ran an 8 man rotation for much of last year because we were only 8 men deep. And even that was questionable, to be entirely honest. I've already explained why I don't think your system of talking about bigs counts: if you think that someone like Melli plays the same role on a team as someone like Okafor, and that they're therefore interchangeable in terms of positional discussions, then you're just evaluating based on listed position and completely ignoring body types, skillsets, etc. It's the box-score-stat style of analysis. When you say ''4 bigs'' and then list Melli and Zion, it's just kind of weird because they are not ''bigs'' in the positional sense. Obviously with small-ball being and thing, they will play some minutes at the C position, especially Zion, but they will spent far far more of their time either at PF or SF, and acting as if Favors and Okafor are competing for minutes with Nicolo Melli is kind of weird. He's a stretch guy, not an anchor.

    Moore was awful coming off the bench. It was a big discussion last year that his production tanked when he came off the bench. He was a 52% FG guy when a starter, and only 38% coming off the bench. 44% from three as a starter, 40.3% as a bench guy. 14ppg as a starter, 8 as a bench guy. +2.6 BPM as a starter, -6 as a bench guy.

    Diallo played in 64 games last season and averaged 14 minutes a night. He was not exclusively playing when people were injured or fouled out. He was getting fairly regular minutes for most of the season. Yes, those minutes increased after AD's trade request when he was on limited minutes, but even in November, Cheick averaged about 10 minutes a night. That's literally true, in November he played in 13 games and totalled 128 minutes: very close to 10 minutes per night.

    I also think it's kind of absurd to say that Jackson is a vet, that's weird to me. Frank is barely more than a rookie himself, and he didn't look like he was ready to take a leap in Summer League at all. He did exactly what we already knew he could do: score and shoot. He had 30 points and 0 assists. That's not a good look, especially when we're talking about the backup point guard position with NAW. Frank cannot run an offense and create for others at this point. Maybe he shows he can do it in training camp and wins those minutes back, but right now you'd be completely missing a trick to play him at PG over NAW.

  14. #64
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! AusPel's Avatar
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    Frank is basically a slightly more talented Seth Curry at this point

  15. #65
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    Man this really sucks. This kid is going to be a very good NBA player and would be a great fit going forward in Gentrys system. Heís versatile and can play with just about any bognon the roster complementing them well. We should have shipped Etuan Moore off and kept Wood. Only move I havenít liked this offseason. The positive is it leaves more minutes for Hayes and Okafor.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    Man this really sucks. This kid is going to be a very good NBA player and would be a great fit going forward in Gentrys system. He’s versatile and can play with just about any bognon the roster complementing them well. We should have shipped Etuan Moore off and kept Wood. Only move I haven’t liked this offseason. The positive is it leaves more minutes for Hayes and Okafor.
    Cutting Wood was free, buying out E'twaun or cutting him, or waiving him, or whatever, would have cost a pretty decent chunk of money. You want to keep Moore until Miller's contract can be aggregated, and then move them together as expirings for a better player.

    Gotta cut someone. Wasn't gonna be one of the rookies, wasn't gonna be Jrue, Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, Favors, so it essentially comes down to Kenrich, Frank, or Wood, and Wood was the one with contract issues and no guaranteed money. Easy choice.

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by 6warddude View Post
    hayes will not be on the active roster......zion,,melli,,okafor and favors are the 4 bigs that will be active.......if anyone thinks hayes will be active then you are saying we will have 5 bigs on the active roster and a guard or SF will have to be inactive.....

    ball/ jackson
    jrue/ JJ/ moore
    ingram/ miller/ hart
    zion/ melli
    favors/ okafor

    this my 12 active players......who would hayes get playing time over on this list?.......remember gentry is the coach and i believe he will play the vets that know his system and who he trust...
    I think we are assuming that throughout the course of the season, Favors and/or Okafor may have to miss some games. I agree that in the event every player is healthy, Hayes would be inactive

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Gentry ran an 8 man rotation for much of last year because we were only 8 men deep. And even that was questionable, to be entirely honest. I've already explained why I don't think your system of talking about bigs counts: if you think that someone like Melli plays the same role on a team as someone like Okafor, and that they're therefore interchangeable in terms of positional discussions, then you're just evaluating based on listed position and completely ignoring body types, skillsets, etc. It's the box-score-stat style of analysis. When you say ''4 bigs'' and then list Melli and Zion, it's just kind of weird because they are not ''bigs'' in the positional sense. Obviously with small-ball being and thing, they will play some minutes at the C position, especially Zion, but they will spent far far more of their time either at PF or SF, and acting as if Favors and Okafor are competing for minutes with Nicolo Melli is kind of weird. He's a stretch guy, not an anchor.

    Moore was awful coming off the bench. It was a big discussion last year that his production tanked when he came off the bench. He was a 52% FG guy when a starter, and only 38% coming off the bench. 44% from three as a starter, 40.3% as a bench guy. 14ppg as a starter, 8 as a bench guy. +2.6 BPM as a starter, -6 as a bench guy.

    Diallo played in 64 games last season and averaged 14 minutes a night. He was not exclusively playing when people were injured or fouled out. He was getting fairly regular minutes for most of the season. Yes, those minutes increased after AD's trade request when he was on limited minutes, but even in November, Cheick averaged about 10 minutes a night. That's literally true, in November he played in 13 games and totalled 128 minutes: very close to 10 minutes per night.

    I also think it's kind of absurd to say that Jackson is a vet, that's weird to me. Frank is barely more than a rookie himself, and he didn't look like he was ready to take a leap in Summer League at all. He did exactly what we already knew he could do: score and shoot. He had 30 points and 0 assists. That's not a good look, especially when we're talking about the backup point guard position with NAW. Frank cannot run an offense and create for others at this point. Maybe he shows he can do it in training camp and wins those minutes back, but right now you'd be completely missing a trick to play him at PG over NAW.

    ok,,,i call players who play the 4 and 5 position bigs....for some reason you are focusing on me using the word bigs....the word bigs should not be the issue here.....it not a big deal so im not going to use it lol...

    i think everyone on the site believe that the 4 players at the 4 and 5 will be zion,,favors,,okafor and melli.....now that leaves 8 players at the 1-3....you have your starters and backups and thats 6 players.....now we have 2 players left...and the issue is that you believe that hayes will get a spot over moore,,jackson and hart.....i just dont see hayes getting a spot before any of those 3 but we will see in october...

    now i already talked about your personal issues with moore but you cheated him again on this post....you posted stats that said moore was awful coming off of the bench...if we going to be honest we all know that stats dont tell the whole truth.....your stats dont show how good moore was on defense/offense and doing the lil things that the eye test tells you.....every time u use stats as your tell all , you never use the eye test to even it out.......we knew the team was not deep last season with randle as the only bench scorer...but you are on here saying moore was awful as a 40% 3pt guy and 8pt avg off the bench when he had 2 of his 30pt games coming off the bench but i might be wrong on that part.....and the reason he went to the bench was because all we had was randle so 8pt was better than anything right?.......but the main thing you didnt do was tell me that moore was hurt playing off the bench and thats where you cheated him at..am i correct?.........see this is where your personal issue about moore comes into play also because it stops you from being honest about moore.....

    you kind of proved my point about diallo....your stats said he played 64 games....so that mean diallo may have played his first game in game 17 or 18 im guessing....now remember payton was the first player to get hurt......once again you and the stats not telling the whole truth....out of AD,,niko and randle, who was hurt for diallo to start getting mins?....see you left that part out.......but its my fault because i didnt explain diallo part right in my post..but the fact remain that diallo first played when a player was nick up...so ill let you tell who the player was....

    i kind of agree about frank not running the offense and i think we need a backup PG....but i also said as of now that i guess gentry is good with frank as the backup but time will tell.......i believe moore,,frank,,hart or miller will be used to get a backup PG and SF .....but the issue is that i dont see hayes getting a spot on the active roster on this deep team over players like moore,,jackson,,hart and your boy naw.....

    on a side note...the starter stats you posted about moore are better than ingram im guessing..so am i right?...if so then why do you want to move moore scoring completely off the sheet knowing how much you hate ingram scoring % as one of our starters?.......if moore stats are better then i would think you would be champion for moore to start over ingram.........i guess both of them just grind your gears lol.....
    Last edited by 6warddude; 07-16-2019 at 02:24 PM.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    I think we are assuming that throughout the course of the season, Favors and/or Okafor may have to miss some games. I agree that in the event every player is healthy, Hayes would be inactive
    i agree hayes may get mins if a injury happens but i dont see him being active if those 4 are healthy...

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    Hayes performing better than expected made this happen. They might have been considering giving him some D-league time, but after his summer league performance they feel comfortable playing him 10-15 min a game at center. With Favors getting the lion share of minutes at 5, and Okafor a capable backup, it’s hard enough to get Hayes any minutes. How could Wood ever see the floor? He doesn’t provide the spacing to pair with any of the centers.
    Wood does provide spacing. You don't need to shoot 40% from 3 to be considered a stretch 4 or provide spacing, especially so early in his career. He's can make jump shots, handle the ball, and create his own shot.

    I don't think Hayes has anything to do with this. Wood and his agent probably realized he doesnt fit into the Pelicans long term plans and I feel like they want an opportunity where Wood has a chance for more minutes instead of fighting over them with Melli. I think THAT signing is what caused this.

  21. #71
    Yes, you're right. I have a personal vendetta against half of our roster. It can't possibly be that I have opinions on them as players based on their performance, instead I just hate their faces or something. You're totally right.

    Moore's stats all dropped significantly coming off the bench, that's just inarguably true, but of course the only reason I would say that he was much worse coming off the bench is because I hate him. Yep, sure. Moore was hurt for the entire back half of the season, and yes that includes some of his games on the bench coming back from injury but it also includes a bunch of the games he started before he was cut off at the end of the year: both his bench and his starting stats were impacted by injury, because his injury lingered for months.

    Diallo played in 4 of our first 6 games, and got double digit minutes in two of them, but sure, he didn't touch the court until game 17. You're right, I'm just not checking anything.

    The thing is, all of these stats are easy to look up. Google is your friend, it's easy to use, and basketball-reference exists without being hard to find. You can check all this stuff, you don't need to just keep taking wild guesses that end up being wrong. If you want to know how long it took for Diallo to get minutes, you don't need to just start ''guessing'' that he didn't play until game 17 or 18, you can just check and find out that he played 2 minutes in game 1, 5 minutes in game two, missed games 3 and 4, and played 11 minutes against the Jazz in game 5 and 14 minutes against the Nuggets in game 6. You don't need to guess, you can check.

    Hayes is not going to get a spot over Moore, Jackson, or Hart, because Hayes is not even competing against Moore, Jackson and Hart. NONE of those guys will play a single second at the power forward or centre positions, whatsoever. They could all get 48 minutes a game at the 1, 2, and 3 respectively and it would have NOTHING TO DO with how many minutes Hayes does or doesn't get. They aren't even in the same category. It's a silly kind of comparison to make. What next, is Jrue Holiday competing for minutes with Jahlil Okafor? Come on.

  22. #72
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Cutting Wood was free, buying out E'twaun or cutting him, or waiving him, or whatever, would have cost a pretty decent chunk of money. You want to keep Moore until Miller's contract can be aggregated, and then move them together as expirings for a better player.

    Gotta cut someone. Wasn't gonna be one of the rookies, wasn't gonna be Jrue, Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, Favors, so it essentially comes down to Kenrich, Frank, or Wood, and Wood was the one with contract issues and no guaranteed money. Easy choice.
    It doesn’t cost us anything to move Moore. It would save us $ or anything. IMO Wood is worth moving Moore even if it was at a cost. We are absolutely stacked at guard with multiple guys that won’t see minutes and Moore is one of them. Wood actually has a shot of seeing minutes and if he continues to develop from last season that is a very good rotational big. There isn’t much of an argument keeping Moore over Wood. Wouldn’t surprise me if we bring him back once we do make a trade.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    It doesn’t cost us anything to move Moore. It would save us $ or anything. IMO Wood is worth moving Moore even if it was at a cost. We are absolutely stacked at guard with multiple guys that won’t see minutes and Moore is one of them. Wood actually has a shot of seeing minutes and if he continues to develop from last season that is a very good rotational big. There isn’t much of an argument keeping Moore over Wood. Wouldn’t surprise me if we bring him back once we do make a trade.
    It costs to cut Moore or waive him. There aren't any teams left with the cap or the desire to just absorb his contract straight up, so we would have to take back some salary roughly equivalent to Moore's cost anyway. It would save us almost no money at all, if any. The better tactic is clearly to wait until Miller can be aggregated and move them together for an upgrade.

    And like I said, Wood is the one with the contract issues. He didn't play in SL because he had a contract dispute with the front office. Wasn't necessarily an antagonistic one, but there was clearly a disagreement on some level. Either he wanted out, to go somewhere his contract was guaranteed, or he wanted a guarantee, at which point, yes he's costing us money.

    If you've got to cut SOMEONE, and there's a guy on your roster who is 24, not guaranteed any money, isn't even playing in Summer League, isn't a perfect fit for your team, and isn't good trade bait later, that's the guy you cut. Sorry, but that's just how it works.

  24. #74
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post


    How insane is it that if that deep bench lineup of

    Jackson/Moore/Miller/Kenny Hustle/Hayes

    Could actually have been a lineup we used over the past few years, and it wouldn't have been odd. Like, during the time that we were running through 10 day contracts and G League guys, that lineup would have been much better than some of the groups we ACTUALLY ran. Now that's our deep bench.
    Yea we are absolutely stacked!! The crazy thing is this roster is really good and the young guys arenít even close to reaching anywhere near their potential. In 3 years this team will be insane and I believe Jrue will still be playing at a very high level. If he stays healthy his game will age well especially if he slightly improves his 3pt shot. JJ is the only player in 3 years that might not be here but even he can have a role as a 3pt specialist allowing him to play for a long time. Also even if Jrue does decline a little he will have 5+ players around him that have only gotten better. I could be happier to have Alexander-Walker be his replacement in the future.

  25. #75
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    LoL you are acting like I don’t understand these things and go off on some rant. I simply said I don’t like this move and I would have liked to keep Wood even if it cost something. I think it’s worth holding on to him even as an asset down the road. We have 7 guards on the roster and moving Moore is going to be done eventually and I’ll guarantee that. Keeping Wood makes more sense then keeping Moore. Now neither I or you know what went on with contract. Obviously Griffin and Langdon decided to make the move so I’m fine with it but I don’t like it.

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