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Thread: Zion Out of Shape?

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoCajun View Post
    Mentally he is a kid ready to play ball, like all kids. Physically, no ********. Award show dinners don't play.
    what?

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  2. #27
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    Skip likes us now

    I love it! Skip knows what he’s talking about when it comes to us. He did mention Hayes but he’s really gonna love us once he gets a better idea of how good Hayes and
    Alexander-Walker both are. Skip is a huge fan of Zion along with Jrue, Ball, JJ, and Ingram. He also likes Gentry and Griffin. Basically loves our entire organization. It’s nice to have a big time media personality like him in our corner and hyping our team up. Skip said we will be the most exciting team in the NBA to watch. You can bet he will be watching a lot of our games.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    I love it! Skip knows what he’s talking about when it comes to us. He did mention Hayes but he’s really gonna love us once he gets a better idea of how good Hayes and
    Alexander-Walker both are. Skip is a huge fan of Zion along with Jrue, Ball, JJ, and Ingram. He also likes Gentry and Griffin. Basically loves our entire organization. It’s nice to have a big time media personality like him in our corner and hyping our team up. Skip said we will be the most exciting team in the NBA to watch. You can bet he will be watching a lot of our games.
    man I'm just waiting for jen to go off on Shannon for some of the dumb ******** he says

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  4. #29
    RIP BDJ AUSSIE_PELICAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahmamamba View Post
    what?

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    Lol

  5. #30
    All-Star MikeyF's Avatar
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    Yes!
    But he will be ready when the season starts.
    He makes it clear that he absolutely wants to be successful in the NBA!

  6. #31
    At this rate he does not even need to get up


  7. #32
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    Y'all do realize the OP was a quote from Coach K, his college coach, not the media? David Griffin is another that has mentioned him being out of shape. Y'all sound like parents defending their little fat kid against bullies. He was listed at 285 lbs at Duke and he was probably playing heavier than that in SL game 1. Even at 285, he's considered "obese" when observing BMI, which I understand isn't the entire picture, but is still alarming.

    There's more to being in shape than not "huffing and puffing" in the fourth quarter. Can you maintain a wide base, knees bent, defensive stance with active hands on every defensive possession? Can you bang with NBA bigs, box out at on one end and set solid screens at the other? He's no longer playing among boys. These guys are professional athletes now. The days of junk food in college are finished. Taking care of their bodies is a 24-hour commitment now. The body fat percentage needs to drop significantly. Common sense and if you're lacking that, history, tells us that repeated impact on joints when overweight can be detrimental.

    He's got a lot of work to do with his body before he can even begin refining his basketball game. And yes I know, work ethic, training staff, nutritionists, etc. He still has to actually do it and his body has to be capable of making the transformation. We all hope this will end up being a non-issue throughout his career, but denying it doesn't make it magically disappear.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by socbe7 View Post
    Y'all do realize the OP was a quote from Coach K, his college coach, not the media? David Griffin is another that has mentioned him being out of shape. Y'all sound like parents defending their little fat kid against bullies. He was listed at 285 lbs at Duke and he was probably playing heavier than that in SL game 1. Even at 285, he's considered "obese" when observing BMI, which I understand isn't the entire picture, but is still alarming.

    There's more to being in shape than not "huffing and puffing" in the fourth quarter. Can you maintain a wide base, knees bent, defensive stance with active hands on every defensive possession? Can you bang with NBA bigs, box out at on one end and set solid screens at the other? He's no longer playing among boys. These guys are professional athletes now. The days of junk food in college are finished. Taking care of their bodies is a 24-hour commitment now. The body fat percentage needs to drop significantly. Common sense and if you're lacking that, history, tells us that repeated impact on joints when overweight can be detrimental.

    He's got a lot of work to do with his body before he can even begin refining his basketball game. And yes I know, work ethic, training staff, nutritionists, etc. He still has to actually do it and his body has to be capable of making the transformation. We all hope this will end up being a non-issue throughout his career, but denying it doesn't make it magically disappear.
    Literally nobody has denied that he was out of shape compared to his normal game-day standards. Literally nobody.

    Using BMI is a ridiculous standard. General consensus is that in Miami, Lebron was around 265, 270lbs. At 6'8, that means that his BMI was 29.6. That's overweight, bordering on obese. Nobody would argue that Miami Lebron was obese, because he was clearly no way near that. When you're dealing with professional athletes, who are ridiculously tall, and when their weight is primarily muscle rather than fat, BMI is less than worthless as an indicator of health.

    We know Zion's body is perfectly capable of making the ''transformation'' of getting into shape: he was in shape at Duke. Not when he entered, but by December/January, he was in fantastic physical condition: not only was he probably the strongest guy in college basketball this year, he was also clearly the most athletic, in the top group for lateral quickness and straight line speed, and was an elite defender playing heavy college minutes. He was obviously in shape.

    But this whole comment is exactly why people like myself are so ticked off by this narrative that's being built. In your comment alone, you say ''these guys are professional athletes now'', as if he doesn't know that. ''Taking care of their bodies is a 24 hour commitment now'', as if he doesn't know that. ''The body fat percentage needs to drop significantly'', we know. You compare him to a fat kid, and come extremely close to saying he's obese, which is ridiculous. These are the absurd little comments that question not just his on court quality, but his personal character: it implies that Zion is either lacking in discipline, or lacking in awareness of both his status and the requirements that come from it, and yes, whether you meant it or not, it questions work ethic and discipline. That's the narrative angle that has people annoyed, not just the basic casual observation that needs to drop 15lbs.
    Basketball.

  9. #34
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    I assume all players are out of shape in the offseason.

  10. #35
    BMI is not applicable to professional athletes.


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  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Saints#34 View Post
    BMI is not applicable to professional athletes. It’s not just “not the entire picture,” it is completely irrelevant.


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  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by socbe7 View Post
    Y'all do realize the OP was a quote from Coach K, his college coach, not the media? David Griffin is another that has mentioned him being out of shape. Y'all sound like parents defending their little fat kid against bullies. He was listed at 285 lbs at Duke and he was probably playing heavier than that in SL game 1. Even at 285, he's considered "obese" when observing BMI, which I understand isn't the entire picture, but is still alarming.

    There's more to being in shape than not "huffing and puffing" in the fourth quarter. Can you maintain a wide base, knees bent, defensive stance with active hands on every defensive possession? Can you bang with NBA bigs, box out at on one end and set solid screens at the other? He's no longer playing among boys. These guys are professional athletes now. The days of junk food in college are finished. Taking care of their bodies is a 24-hour commitment now. The body fat percentage needs to drop significantly. Common sense and if you're lacking that, history, tells us that repeated impact on joints when overweight can be detrimental.

    He's got a lot of work to do with his body before he can even begin refining his basketball game. And yes I know, work ethic, training staff, nutritionists, etc. He still has to actually do it and his body has to be capable of making the transformation. We all hope this will end up being a non-issue throughout his career, but denying it doesn't make it magically disappear.
    They are actively looking for every voice they can find that will push their narrative. Don’t deny it. His shape right now after essentially being paraded around since the end of the college season is irrelevant. They are trying to stick him with a label now and break it out if he doesn’t reach expectations.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Saints#34 View Post
    BMI is not applicable to professional athletes.


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    BMI is barely applicable to normal people. If you've ever been to see a nutritionist or an experienced personal trainer, it's very rare that they'll set you a goal BMI or something. It assumes a bunch of stuff about muscle-to-fat ratio, about general build, etc, that just can't be applied universally. It's a good guide: if your BMI is 10, you're extremely underweight regardless of your shape, ratio, or height, and if your BMI is 50 you're extremely overweight regardless of everything else, but the entire 18-35 range is a grey area that varies wildly from person to person.

  14. #39
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    Now you sound like the parent that makes excuses for his kids rather than face reality. Don't blame me or the media for this narrative. I'm not the one that took a media tour, an awards tour and basked in the glory of being selected #1 all while eating and not working out at a NBA level. I'm not the one that showed up to summer league game 1 so out of shape that I was pulled 9 minutes in and both my former college coach and current "boss" couldn't even sugar coat it to the media. Y'all can continue to make excuses for him, but regardless of why he's overweight and out of shape, if he doesn't want this hanging over his head any longer, he needs to decide that it's time to buckle down and put in work. Not the team, not Griffin, not Gentry, not the trainers, not mom, dad, brother, whatever. Do you think anybody has to convince the NBA players spending time in Vegas over the summer to work out? Those guys are putting in 6+ hours a day during their "off-season." You can attribute it to youth, work ethic, discipline or whatever else makes you feel better, but at the end of the day, Zion needs to decide it's time to be a pro and treat this like the job it is.

    Also, if you take your rose-colored glasses off and re-read my post, I clearly say BMI isn't the entire picture. You can look at LeBron James and understand that his BMI will not be an accurate depiction of the world class athlete he is. However with Zion, it's pretty obvious that he's carrying a significant amount of extra weight around, much of it being body fat. So by definition, yes, Zion is considered obese. And let's be honest, you're ticked off by this narrative because Zion can do no wrong.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by socbe7 View Post
    Now you sound like the parent that makes excuses for his kids rather than face reality. Don't blame me or the media for this narrative. I'm not the one that took a media tour, an awards tour and basked in the glory of being selected #1 all while eating and not working out at a NBA level. I'm not the one that showed up to summer league game 1 so out of shape that I was pulled 9 minutes in and both my former college coach and current "boss" couldn't even sugar coat it to the media. Y'all can continue to make excuses for him, but regardless of why he's overweight and out of shape, if he doesn't want this hanging over his head any longer, he needs to decide that it's time to buckle down and put in work. Not the team, not Griffin, not Gentry, not the trainers, not mom, dad, brother, whatever. Do you think anybody has to convince the NBA players spending time in Vegas over the summer to work out? Those guys are putting in 6+ hours a day during their "off-season." You can attribute it to youth, work ethic, discipline or whatever else makes you feel better, but at the end of the day, Zion needs to decide it's time to be a pro and treat this like the job it is.

    Also, if you take your rose-colored glasses off and re-read my post, I clearly say BMI isn't the entire picture. You can look at LeBron James and understand that his BMI will not be an accurate depiction of the world class athlete he is. However with Zion, it's pretty obvious that he's carrying a significant amount of extra weight around, much of it being body fat. So by definition, yes, Zion is considered obese. And let's be honest, you're ticked off by this narrative because Zion can do no wrong.
    I'm ticked off by this narrative because it's exactly that: narrative. Devoid of context, consideration of reality, and situation.

    Is Zion overweight right now, compared to how he will ideally look in game come October? Yes. Nobody is denying that. Nobody is claiming that he's in fantastic peak fitness right now. NOBODY. Absolutely everyone acknowledges that due to varying factors, some of which were within his control, he's not in peak shape.

    Is it enough to make it into a daily news report, where Gilbert ''It's Smart To Have Guns In The Locker Room'' Arenas gets to grandstand about it? No, it's not. He's out of shape. If this was October, you'd have a point, but it's not. It's July, and not even a regular July: it's the July immediately after his college season. When you take a look at someone's offseason shape with literally no NBA training experience after 3 months of not playing and you say ''I'm not the one that took a media tour and basked in the glory of being selected #1 all while eating and not working out at an NBA level'', you turn it into a blame game. You turn it from ''this is roughly what you expect from a kid in his situation'', and you turn it into ''he's living an unhealthy lifestyle that's jeopardising his career and it's his own fault for being unprofessional and stupid and undisciplined.''

    That's so reactionary, overblown, and premature that it's beyond stupidity.

    Does anyone think NBA players have to get convinced to get in shape? I don't know, let's ask Shaq, Charles Barkley, Zach Randolph, Demarcus Cousins, early Julius Randle, Draymond Green, and the rest of the NBA players who either carry excess weight or had to undergo extreme weight loss routines to get back in shape after bad years. Not every player is Lebron James, who stays in top tier fitness 365 days of the year.

    I don't care what a rookie NBA player looks like in July. If Zion's still carrying excess weight like this in October, then sure, you'll have a point. But getting in a tizzy over how ripped his abs are or are not in July before he's even really MET the training staff, especially when half of the images out there right now of him are shopped (particularly the famous one where he's sat in the courtside seat at SL and they've edited it to make his gut look oversized) is just absurd. You should hold yourself to a higher standard than that.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by socbe7 View Post
    Now you sound like the parent that makes excuses for his kids rather than face reality. Don't blame me or the media for this narrative. I'm not the one that took a media tour, an awards tour and basked in the glory of being selected #1 all while eating and not working out at a NBA level. I'm not the one that showed up to summer league game 1 so out of shape that I was pulled 9 minutes in and both my former college coach and current "boss" couldn't even sugar coat it to the media. Y'all can continue to make excuses for him, but regardless of why he's overweight and out of shape, if he doesn't want this hanging over his head any longer, he needs to decide that it's time to buckle down and put in work. Not the team, not Griffin, not Gentry, not the trainers, not mom, dad, brother, whatever. Do you think anybody has to convince the NBA players spending time in Vegas over the summer to work out? Those guys are putting in 6+ hours a day during their "off-season." You can attribute it to youth, work ethic, discipline or whatever else makes you feel better, but at the end of the day, Zion needs to decide it's time to be a pro and treat this like the job it is.

    Also, if you take your rose-colored glasses off and re-read my post, I clearly say BMI isn't the entire picture. You can look at LeBron James and understand that his BMI will not be an accurate depiction of the world class athlete he is. However with Zion, it's pretty obvious that he's carrying a significant amount of extra weight around, much of it being body fat. So by definition, yes, Zion is considered obese. And let's be honest, you're ticked off by this narrative because Zion can do no wrong.
    Stop trying to be contrarian for the sake of it. You either are being willingly ignorant or haven’t studied a bit about the media (which I doubt). The season hasn’t even started yet. If Zion shows up in October 40 pounds overweight looking like Fat Albert, he will rightly be criticized.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I'm ticked off by this narrative because it's exactly that: narrative. Devoid of context, consideration of reality, and situation.
    How is this devoid of context and consideration of reality? He knew exactly when summer league started. He could have chosen to be ready. He wasn't. Saying, "oh it's only July" is an excuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Is Zion overweight right now, compared to how he will ideally look in game come October? Yes. Nobody is denying that. Nobody is claiming that he's in fantastic peak fitness right now. NOBODY. Absolutely everyone acknowledges that due to varying factors, some of which were within his control, he's not in peak shape.
    So why do you consider it a narrative? He's been a media darling since high school. If the reports about his work ethic and discipline are correct, then he has no one to blame but himself for whatever "ammunition" he's given the media.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Is it enough to make it into a daily news report, where Gilbert ''It's Smart To Have Guns In The Locker Room'' Arenas gets to grandstand about it? No, it's not. He's out of shape. If this was October, you'd have a point, but it's not. It's July, and not even a regular July: it's the July immediately after his college season. When you take a look at someone's offseason shape with literally no NBA training experience after 3 months of not playing and you say ''I'm not the one that took a media tour and basked in the glory of being selected #1 all while eating and not working out at an NBA level'', you turn it into a blame game. You turn it from ''this is roughly what you expect from a kid in his situation'', and you turn it into ''he's living an unhealthy lifestyle that's jeopardising his career and it's his own fault for being unprofessional and stupid and undisciplined.''

    That's so reactionary, overblown, and premature that it's beyond stupidity.
    Yeah I didn't say that at all. Take some deep breaths. I merely pointed out that his weight is clearly concerning enough that Coach K said he shouldn't have played altogether. I don't care what Gilbert Arenas thinks. I care about what I think, which is that he has a lot of work to do before he steps back onto the court for a competitive game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Does anyone think NBA players have to get convinced to get in shape? I don't know, let's ask Shaq, Charles Barkley, Zach Randolph, Demarcus Cousins, early Julius Randle, Draymond Green, and the rest of the NBA players who either carry excess weight or had to undergo extreme weight loss routines to get back in shape after bad years. Not every player is Lebron James, who stays in top tier fitness 365 days of the year.
    And while still HOFers, Shaq and Charles will never be considered in the conversation of GOAT. Shaq is 7'2" and didn't have a 40+inch vertical to land from repeatedly. And if Zion doesn't take responsibility and control of his body, Zebo, Cousins and Randle are the exact type of ceiling he may have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I don't care what a rookie NBA player looks like in July. If Zion's still carrying excess weight like this in October, then sure, you'll have a point. But getting in a tizzy over how ripped his abs are or are not in July before he's even really MET the training staff, especially when half of the images out there right now of him are shopped (particularly the famous one where he's sat in the courtside seat at SL and they've edited it to make his gut look oversized) is just absurd. You should hold yourself to a higher standard than that.
    I have seen no such pictures, nor do I care to. I watched him play 9 minutes and like anyone else that can be objective, made the observation that he is indeed, out of shape and overweight.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    Stop trying to be contrarian for the sake of it. You either are being willingly ignorant or haven’t studied a bit about the media (which I doubt). The season hasn’t even started yet. If Zion shows up in October 40 pounds overweight looking like Fat Albert, he will rightly be criticized.
    But JJack....

    Zion is 420lbs. His BMI is 49. The cartilage in his ankles has been compressed to within the thickness of a 1998 CD Rom adventure game. He doesn't care about sport, he doesn't care about basketball, he doesn't care about the city of New Orleans beyond its ability to provide him with gumbo, and he doesn't care about you on a personal level. He's a horrible, undisciplined, lazy moron who doesn't understand professionalism. I've heard he's already sending death threats to the team training staff because they told him he needs to stop eating fast food every night. You might think that he clearly wasn't in THAT bad shape at Summer League because he was still capable of 360 dunking so high in the air that he was staring down into the rim, but in reality that was just him bouncing off of his gut. He's ruined.

    If only he had listened to Gilbert Arenas....

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    But JJack....

    Zion is 420lbs. His BMI is 49. The cartilage in his ankles has been compressed to within the thickness of a 1998 CD Rom adventure game. He doesn't care about sport, he doesn't care about basketball, he doesn't care about the city of New Orleans beyond its ability to provide him with gumbo, and he doesn't care about you on a personal level. He's a horrible, undisciplined, lazy moron who doesn't understand professionalism. I've heard he's already sending death threats to the team training staff because they told him he needs to stop eating fast food every night. You might think that he clearly wasn't in THAT bad shape at Summer League because he was still capable of 360 dunking so high in the air that he was staring down into the rim, but in reality that was just him bouncing off of his gut. He's ruined.

    If only he had listened to Gilbert Arenas....
    For dear Christ. I actually don’t have a problem with people criticizing him for his weight. The fact that the media is actively seeking out every voice they can to pin every stereotype they can on him is just sad. The fact that people deny this is happening or is a problem just makes me sigh really hard. If he landed in darling New York City, this wouldn’t even be a conversation. He looked pretty good in his brief cameo. I’m excited.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    For dear Christ. I actually don’t have a problem with people criticizing him for his weight. The fact that the media is actively seeking out every voice they can to pin every stereotype they can on him is just sad. The fact that people deny this is happening or is a problem just makes me sigh really hard. If he landed in darling New York City, this wouldn’t even be a conversation. He looked pretty good in his brief cameo. I’m excited.
    No, I completely agree with you. I'm happy to admit that he looked out of shape at Summer League. Not as out of shape as some people seem to be pushing for (I doubt the 300+lbs narrative, for example, since I believe his actual end-of-season shape for Duke was more like 275 than 285), but still clearly not in his peak condition. It's just absurd that this has been turned into a big narrative about him, rather than a meaningless observation. Nobody should expect Zion to be in peak fitness right now given everything that's surrounded him for the last 3 months or so. You made the point that if he shows up 40lbs overweight at training camp, then it will be an issue, and I agree: if he looks like this in September or October, then it's fair to be concerned. Right now, it's difficult to care less.

    And I agree, he looked good in his brief time on the court. 11 points in 9 minutes, got to the FT line a lot, that steal on Knox was absolute filth. Didn't play long enough for us to see how he would have performed in a more ''game'' like setting, since it was all very scrambled early on for both teams, but he provided the highlights.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    No, I completely agree with you. I'm happy to admit that he looked out of shape at Summer League. Not as out of shape as some people seem to be pushing for (I doubt the 300+lbs narrative, for example, since I believe his actual end-of-season shape for Duke was more like 275 than 285), but still clearly not in his peak condition. It's just absurd that this has been turned into a big narrative about him, rather than a meaningless observation. Nobody should expect Zion to be in peak fitness right now given everything that's surrounded him for the last 3 months or so. You made the point that if he shows up 40lbs overweight at training camp, then it will be an issue, and I agree: if he looks like this in September or October, then it's fair to be concerned. Right now, it's difficult to care less.

    And I agree, he looked good in his brief time on the court. 11 points in 9 minutes, got to the FT line a lot, that steal on Knox was absolute filth. Didn't play long enough for us to see how he would have performed in a more ''game'' like setting, since it was all very scrambled early on for both teams, but he provided the highlights.
    Si. The errors that he made in that game were rookie mistakes and weren’t related to his condition. He looked on another level to most out there physically. If that is how he looks when he is out of shape, I can’t wait to see what he will do when he spends time with Nelson and Co.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    Si. The errors that he made in that game were rookie mistakes and weren’t related to his condition. He looked on another level to most out there physically. If that is how he looks when he is out of shape, I can’t wait to see what he will do when he spends time with Nelson and Co.
    Griff said during that interview he did during the SL game that it's already been agreed that Zion will spend most of the summer in New Orleans with Aaron Nelson and the training staff, so I bet we see some results relatively soon. Remember how Randle posted that random picture out of nowhere last summer showing off his weight loss and new physique? I'm willing to bet there will be similarly impressive pictures of Zion leaked at some point, where he looks like he's gone Hulk mode.

  23. #48


    As a side note, I'm not sure why Perkins keeps pushing this. He's said this on twitter like four times, and said it on TV as well. He spent damn near his entire career overweight, regardless of what city he lived in. He was overweight and out of shape in Oklahoma City just as much as when he was in New Orleans. The fact that he found a way to be out of shape no matter where he lived says a lot more about him and his training regimen than it does about the city of New Orleans. Jrue's been working and living in New Orleans since 2013 and he's in absurd physical shape, because he's been disciplined with his diet and workout routines. Randle managed to stay in pretty good shape all year and that's despite having disastrous locker room drama going on, and no Aaron Nelson.

    Maybe Perk should just stop talking.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post


    As a side note, I'm not sure why Perkins keeps pushing this. He's said this on twitter like four times, and said it on TV as well. He spent damn near his entire career overweight, regardless of what city he lived in. He was overweight and out of shape in Oklahoma City just as much as when he was in New Orleans. The fact that he found a way to be out of shape no matter where he lived says a lot more about him and his training regimen than it does about the city of New Orleans. Jrue's been working and living in New Orleans since 2013 and he's in absurd physical shape, because he's been disciplined with his diet and workout routines. Randle managed to stay in pretty good shape all year and that's despite having disastrous locker room drama going on, and no Aaron Nelson.

    Maybe Perk should just stop talking.
    Perk is probably jumping on the social media wagon here as a fan (as I’m sure everybody is joking about Zion’s weight which is funny to some degree). He is a funny looking guy. It will probably turn in to one of those jokes where his weight increases by 5 pounds every time it’s mentioned.

    Having said that, this is all a result of the storm the media has created. Hopefully Zion makes them look really stupid.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    Perk is probably jumping on the social media wagon here as a fan (as I’m sure everybody is joking about Zion’s weight which is funny to some degree). He is a funny looking guy. It will probably turn in to one of those jokes where his weight increases by 5 pounds every time it’s mentioned.

    Having said that, this is all a result of the storm the media has created. Hopefully Zion makes them look really stupid.
    I'd agree, but Perks comments on The Jump over a week ago were some the earliest moments in this surge of criticism, so I'm not giving him that much of a benefit of the doubt on it.

    Like I said, Zion is 420lbs. That's just it. Doesn't matter if he's actually 265, 285, or 310, he's 420lbs.

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