i think media is hyping this up. i don't think we'll splash on him
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i think media is hyping this up. i don't think we'll splash on him
But we have future assets right? We have multiple first round picks for the next 5ish years and like 7-9 second round picks.Originally Posted by Silverfoxx
We have a group of talented players outside of Jrue and Moore with an average age of like 22.
I don’t think we’re winning a championship next year but I don’t understand the thought process that says we can be a competitive playoff team in Zion’s early years.
I agree we don’t want albatross contracts 4-5 years out from today. But a 2-3 year window signing some good vets that keeps us competitive, I don’t see anything wrong with that.
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Horford is the perfect player and mentor for this young team, especially Zion and Jaxson. However, I don't want and to give him a 4 year deal. I'd be fine with a 3 year deal that is descending.@KeithSmithNBA
I've been saying this over and over, but here it is again:
In 4 days about 200 players are going to be free agents. That's 40% of the NBA. 14 teams have meaningful cap space and many will use that on 1 or 2 players. There are going to be lots and lots of good bargains out there.
I agree with Keith Smith here. There will be some great value out there after the big spenders blow their wad on the tier one and tier two guys. I'd much prefer to wait that out and sign the tier 3 vets or trade for good vets that are overpaid and collect more assets. The goal isn't gonna be playoffs or bust this year anyways. We're focused on building our core and culture, so trade for vets and gain more picks.
Last edited by RUFshreve; 06-26-2019 at 08:01 AM.
I don't think we will sign horford because he will want a long deal and that's not good for us at his age....
we do need to win now because we need to show the NBA world that we are not the goofy organization anymore and this is really a new beginning for new orleans…...this season coming we need to sneak into the playoffs or miss by a handful of games to keep the hype and excitement going into season 20/21....getting zion started the hype and pulled in more and new ticket sales.....this team needs to win about 38-40 games this season coming to show players,, fans and outsiders that we are taking things serious in new orleans and attract free agents to want to come here...….we cant make these things happen with a bunch of rookies starting on the team....
this is our own fault in how we ran this organization over the years so now we have to rush and fix it...
The only ways I accept a deal with Horford that's longer than two years is if
A) It's way cheaper than people expect.
B) It starts off large, declines every year rather than increases, and has a team option in the final year
C) It starts off huge, grows in the second year, but is a team option for every additional year after that point.
All three of those are very unlikely occurrences, but it's the only way I (if I were the GM) would be willing to give Horford three or four years.
Edit: Just wanna add that the second deal, with the declines and then the team option, I saw on twitter. Can't remember if it was MM or Mason Ginsberg I stole it from, but it's not an original idea. Not that that matters but still.
Last edited by Pelicanidae; 06-26-2019 at 08:29 AM.
Basketball.
Your absolute prohibition against a longer contract is really confusing. Horford is the ideal player, both from skillset and maturity, that we need to add to the roster.
How/why do you plan on preserving cap space for 2021? Ingram gets extended next year. Ball the year after. Jrue can opt out in 2021. If you plot out your cap space over the next 3 years, it gets really hard to hold on to a max spot unless you plan on dumping Ingram/Ball before their extensions kick in, taking back draft picks, or after the extensions kick in - trading them, but only taking back expiring contracts.
IMO, we're in the same spot Philly was in looking at extensions on the horizon for Embiid and Simmons. Only it's Ingram and Ball - and we also have a generational talent starting his rookie deal. As long as whoever we sign doesn't overlap with Zion's 2nd contract, we'll be fine.
Going into the last year of any 4 year deal we sign this summer, we'd be armed with 2 #1 picks in summer of 2022. Imagine having a large expiring, and 2 #1 picks heading into the season before we extend Zion. IMO, that's the best and most realistic scenario for adding an A-level talent to pair with Zion and whoever else is on the team at that point.
Yea I really don't want to be the 4 years 118 million team, but if that last year is a team option or mostly un-guaranteed I'd be on board.
It's not an absolute prohibition. I literally just listed three different ways I'd be okay with it. If there are multiple different scenarios where you'd take the deal, that's not an ''absolute prohibition'', it's just having a preference.
I agree mostly with the rest of what you've said: it would be hard to give yourself a max contract in 2021 using only moves made now. The difference is that there are a series of choices you have to make. Like you said, we get the choice to extend Ingram or not next summer. If he's worth extending, then we do it, if he's not then we don't, but that's another choice to be made then based on the results of his year in New Orleans. We can't really make that choice now because it requires information we don't have. And if he makes a big enough leap, we might not even need a max slot in 2021: maybe he'll just become a star. A lot of people on this board seem to think he will, and hopefully they're all correct because that would be really convenient for us.
But you can only make the right decision when it's in front of you and you have all the facts. Right now, if there's a single choice in front of you, and that choice is Horford for 4/yrs £112m, straight up, all fully guaranteed, no declining years, no team or player options, just big money guaranteed, I think that saying yes is a bad option because you know that it will be a horrible contract by the end, that you'll have no way to get out of it without offering up assets, and that it will limit your ability to make real 'game-changer' moves later. None of that is hypothetical. It's the choice that's in front of us.
Marc Stein - @TheSteinLine: Sad news, @BillSimmons. I've been strongly advised, in the wake of our pod, that New Orleans is NOT the stealth suitor in the Al Horford Sweepstakes.
Thank.... God! No guy is worth 30m+ a year because he is a "good mentor for Zion". Just absolutely stupid logic.
I don't think anyone was suggesting you give him $30m just because he is a good mentor for Zion.
Awesome. Dodged a bullet there.
It is an absolute prohibition if you give 3 highly unrealistic examples of when you would accept a longer deal.
I think he would be the perfect fit for our team and you likely only gonna get him to come here by paying top dollar. Hopefully we can get him to agree to a 3 year deal with a team option 4th since he is 33 years of age. I would also make it a descending deal due to his age. So maybe a 4 year $100 million dollar deal with the first year at $28 mil, second at $25 mil, third at $22 mil, and team option at $25 mil. I would be fine with a deal similar to that one.
What would be even better is if we could make that 3rd year a player option with the 4th year a team
Option?! Can you make a contract that?
Last edited by DaPelFromHell; 06-26-2019 at 10:15 AM.
If we could get him on a 3 year deal with a 4th year team option, I would be OK with that. However, I do not think we would outbid other teams on that.
Also, not being "the stealth suitor", doesn't mean the Pelicans aren't interested.
Also since their possible interest has been talked about a lot lately, it's not really very stealthy.
And also, the idea that there is a 4yr/$112m offer is probably coming from his agent. Who I believe is also Jrue's agent. Wasn't there supposedly a large offer from someone out there if the Pelicans didn't give Jrue the contract that he wanted on July 1? Not saying there isn't a stealth team - only suggesting that this seems to be the playbook for this agent. I'd guess there is more than one offer north of where Boston's final offer was, and the idea of a stealth team isn't real, but that they are comfortable with the offers that are out there from multiple other teams. Just a hunch.
There were plenty of people saying 3yr/100m+
Contributor
Oh thank you!!!
Right, but not just because he is a good mentor for Zion.
He's the ideal center: low usage, stretch the floor, elite defense, playoff experience, maturity
If we can’t land the right stretch 5 through FA or trade, we should really look for it in the draft. If I’m not mistaken, there are a few bigs next year that project as stretch 5’s. I’d expect in the next few years you will see many more stretch 5’s come out than before as it’s becoming more and more coveted.
I would increase it to 4 years $110 mil if I could get him to agree to a first year at $29mil, 2nd at $28 mil, 3rd year player option at $25 mil, and a 4th year team option at $28 mil. That would be a perfect deal for both sides. If he doesn’t like it here, he could opt out after year 2. He would be 35 and if he’s still playing at a high level could likely get one more decent deal. Since that 3rd year would be the less amount of money, he might opt out for sure which I would likely want lol. If we don’t like how it’s working out, we could opt out after year 3.
I don't see any reason Hayes can't develop into that guy before the end of his rookie contract. He and the Pelicans have to be willing to have him work on that part of his game, but he seems to have good touch on his shot, it's just not a part of his game currently. I'd be shocked if the Pels draft another center any time in the next 4 years.
Don't worry Christian Wood is going to blow up this year and will solve that problem. I am speaking it into existence.
Cool. #threadclosed
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