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Thread: Brandon Ingram?????

  1. #101
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HartOfaPelican View Post
    In all this discussion. Do we even know if he’s healthy right now? I looked but I could not find any news on him since March.

    Is he working out? Is he shooting and practicing?

    Is he medically cleared yet?


    I think his availability should somewhat dictate our moves in FA.

    https://www.rotoworld.com/basketball...brandon-ingram

    Brandon Ingram, who was shut down last season with a blood clot in his right shoulder, is expected back on the court in July.
    This is wonderful news for Ingram and the Pelicans and it means he should be a full go for training camp in the Fall. Lakers reporter Tania Ganguli spoke to a hemotologist back in March who said Ingram’s "likelihood of a full recovery is in the high 90s percent-wise since his issue was structural," so hopefully this issue doesn't pop up again. The Pelicans "envision" Ingram and Lonzo Ball joining the starting lineup that already includes Jrue Holiday and Zion Williamson, and they will be looking to potentially trade the No. 4 pick in order to find their fifth starter.

    SOURCE: ESPN
    Jun 17, 2019, 11:47 AM ET

  2. #102
    Starter HartOfaPelican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar View Post
    https://www.rotoworld.com/basketball...brandon-ingram

    Brandon Ingram, who was shut down last season with a blood clot in his right shoulder, is expected back on the court in July.
    This is wonderful news for Ingram and the Pelicans and it means he should be a full go for training camp in the Fall. Lakers reporter Tania Ganguli spoke to a hemotologist back in March who said Ingram’s "likelihood of a full recovery is in the high 90s percent-wise since his issue was structural," so hopefully this issue doesn't pop up again. The Pelicans "envision" Ingram and Lonzo Ball joining the starting lineup that already includes Jrue Holiday and Zion Williamson, and they will be looking to potentially trade the No. 4 pick in order to find their fifth starter.

    SOURCE: ESPN
    Jun 17, 2019, 11:47 AM ET
    That’s what I like to hear!!!

  3. #103
    I would prefer 100% chance that it's completely fixed and won't recur, but I also know that that's basically impossible, so I'll take high 90% just fine.
    Zion ''The Earthquake'' Williamson

  4. #104
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    Brandon Ingram is going to have ZION and Jrue and a better coach and better organization and a more positive atmosphere in general. LAKERS organization was garbage.

    I predict Gentry will put Ingram at PG at times when Lonzo is resting. He is a damn good facilitator and heís very difficult to guard. Elite defenders have problems with him. Thereís not a very strong argument that Ingram wonít develop into a very very good player. Thereís more evidence to suggest he is likely to become a better player very soon.

    Bet against him if you want to. I bet he crushes it. He needs to improve on the defensive end.

    I predict Gentry will have him at PG while Lonzo is on the bench. He is a very good facilitator. He shot 49% fg last year. He had elite defenders on him, Durant, Bledsoe, Covington, Lopez got posterized. Watch. Itís going to be similar to those who doubted Jrue. It was reasonable to question Jrue in the past but he proved many wrong. This will happen with Ingram.


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  5. #105
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    Ingram must improve defense. He has to put on weight and get stronger. He will probably never shoot as well as Tatum but if he can compliment Jrue and Zion our team will be better.

    He also has to improve off the ball in general. Especially if you want to have a chance against elite teams in a playoff setting. A lot of players improve shooting and their ability to play team defense. I think Ingram needs to get bigger. Gain 15-25 lbs and become more physical. I donít know if he can do that but if he can get bigger and stronger he will probably get more rebounds and play better defense. I think itís more of an effort thing and a matter of player more aggressively in general. Jrue could help him with this imo. The bbiq isnít the biggest issue.


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  6. #106
    When you go beyond the stats and begin applying human elements (since we ARE watching young adult humans play this game) the argument against Ingram looks pretty dumb.

    He had a decent rookie season. It wasn't great for a vet but it was good for a rookie. His sophomore season saw vast improvement. He was shooting 39% from 3 THE ENTIRE SEASON. Since the 3rd season was Rich Pauled, his 2nd season is a better indication of what we should expect and probably even better. The guys who really hated the Lakers trade cherry pick stats to skew their argument. Using the Rich Paul season is an anomaly. Using a rookie season is bad form. It only leaves us with a sophmore season but because those stats are really good, it gets ignored and only the RP season gets used.

    In fact, the post above says "he will probably never shoot as well as Tatum" but if you compare just their sophmore seasons, Ingram had both a higher FG% and 3pt% than Tatum. Significantly higher in both categories. Now, yes, the human element. Tatum was playing in a dysfunctional environment last season. We've gone round this arugment many times before. The same people using the RP season against Ingram ignoring the dysfunction use last season with Kyrie to explain Tatum's drop in numbers. Oi.

    This is also the fifth time those same people are seeing thay 99% chance of non recurring clots yet tomorrow it'll go back to being "but meh blood ckotz" when attacking people who like Ingram.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I would prefer 100% chance that it's completely fixed and won't recur, but I also know that that's basically impossible, so I'll take high 90% just fine.
    They don't do absolutes in the medical field. That is anout as close as you will get.
    Last edited by msusousaphone; 06-25-2019 at 11:01 AM.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    For the first 18 games of the season this year, E'twaun Moore shot 32 of 66, for 48.5% from three.

    Small samples sizes are small and can tell very weird stories. And while it's true he shot 39% his second year, he did it on very few shots per game, that given the massively drop off this season combined with his very poor three point shooting first season, I wouldn't be betting on the one good year to be the more representative one.

    It's true that the mess of the Lakers could have impacted his gameplay, and maybe if he really was unhappy with LA for the entire time that hurt his work ethic and made him less inclined to put in the effort. Hopefully that's true, and coming to a new situation gives him new life and he gets in the gym and improves. But can we please stop talking about the 11 game sample size as if that's at all a reasonable thing to extrapolate from?
    You canít use him shooting a high percentage from 3 on limited attempts as an argument then say he shot a low 3pt percentage when it was the same amount of attempts per game as the year he shot a high percentage.

  8. #108
    Cherry. Picking. Stats.

    Form an opinion and then stick to that black/white thinking by any means necessary.

    It was the same thing having to sit in the gameday threads all season listening to people complain about Randle being an awful player despite seeing the opposite.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    You can’t use him shooting a high percentage from 3 on limited attempts as an argument then say he shot a low 3pt percentage when it was the same amount of attempts per game as the year he shot a high percentage.
    He shot badly in his rookie year. That's his rookie year, fine, cool, you expect it to be not great. It was the year he shot the highest volume of threes and also his worst year, so that might tell you something, but it's fine to not take everything from it.

    His second year, he shot far fewer threes than his rookie year, but shot them better. Good, that's improvement, that's what you want.

    Then his third year, he shot the same number as his second year, and was garbage again. That's regression, that's not what you want.

    So the question is, what do you feel is more representative of his career so far: the 280+ threes he's taken in years 1 and 3, or the 100 threes he took in year two?

    If you're willing to say ''oh well look, he get Rich Paul'd in year three, and he was a rookie in year one, so only year two really counts'' then cool. Good for you. I don't really take the Rich Paul excuse because just look at the mess Boston was in this year with the Kyrie situation and the AD trade rumours where Tatum was literally being asked about being moved in post-game interviews, and he still managed 38% from three.

  10. #110
    Tatum being asked a few trade questions is NOTHING compared to the season the Lakers guys just endured.

    https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2019/6...o-holiday-zion

    Since his rocky rookie season, there have been a handful of marked improvements. His true shooting percentage (which takes free throws, two-point shots and three-point shots into account) has risen from an ugly 47.4 percent to 53.6 percent in 2017-18 to 55.5 percent last season, a mark that bests those put up by players like once-and-potentially-future King Harrison Barnes (55 percent) and Jayson Tatum (54.7 percent). That rise runs parallel to similar increases in overall field goal and free throw attempts as well as usage rate, a positive sign for his ability to shoulder sizable offensive responsibilities without sacrificing efficiency.
    Let's also not forget that Ingram was shooting 40%+ from 3 in college. The dude can shoot.

    The more the stats that matter get examined, the better Ingram looks.
    Last edited by msusousaphone; 06-26-2019 at 04:12 PM.

  11. #111
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    Tatum being asked a few trade questions is NOTHING compared to the season the Lakers guys just endured.

    https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2019/6...o-holiday-zion



    Let's also not forget that Ingram was shooting 40%+ from 3 in college. The dude can shoot.

    The more the stats that matter get examined, the better Ingram looks.
    I would look more at what he has done in the NBA as this is now his 4th year.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    I would look more at what he has done in the NBA as this is now his 4th year.
    Facepalm

    I assumed most people read an entire thread, or even an entire post, or linked articles before posting.....not just the last three sentences of a post.....am I interwebbing wrong?
    Last edited by msusousaphone; 06-26-2019 at 05:02 PM.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    I would look more at what he has done in the NBA as this is now his 4th year.
    I agree with that approach. I don't really understand people who reference college stats as evidence that someone can do something when they've been in the NBA for literally years.

    I always wonder where that stops. If someone shot 48% from three in college, and then shot 20% from three in the NBA for a decade, do we still say ''oh, really they can shoot, they shot 48% in college!'' or do we just accept that college is irrelevant at that point? I take the latter approach.

    Edit: and before anyone comments, I'm not replying to MSU's thing here, I'm just agreeing with the general approach PELICANSFAN is outlining.
    Last edited by Pelicanidae; 06-26-2019 at 07:31 PM.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    Facepalm

    I assumed most people read an entire thread, or even an entire post, or linked articles before posting.....not just the last three sentences of a post.....am I interwebbing wrong?
    Yea by page 5 im sure some just read the last post and go with it.

  15. #115
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    Mike Trudell
    @LakersReporter
    Brandon Ingram is doing a terrific job on CJ McCollum, who’s now 2 for 9. Ingram using his length and quickness to harass every attempt.


    Joey Ramirez
    @JoeyARamirez

    Feb 7
    Kyrie Irving when guarded by Brandon Ingram: 2-for-7 with 2 turnovers



    Jay King
    @ByJayKing

    Feb 7
    Kyrie said the Lakers length impacted him tonight. Singled out Brandon Ingram in particular.

    @lakersreporter
    Another good defensive effort all around, as Dallas shot 39.5%. Walton credited Brandon Ingram’s job on Luka Doncic (2 for 13 FG’s) and Lonzo Ball (5 steals) in general. Lakers were 11th in Def. Eff. before the game.

    Shots from at least 15 feet away went in 3.4 percent less frequently when Ingram was there to contest, and the effect was even more pronounced on three-pointers, where opponents shot just 30.7 percent, 4.7 points lower than the 35.4 average. For reference, Kawhi Leonard lowered the effectiveness of these same shots by 2.1 and 3.1 respectively, and he is quite good!
    https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2019/6...o-holiday-zion

    Ingram is still growing as a prospect, he's only 21 years old. I do believe his defense is being underrated due to some placing a higher value on steals and blocks. Ingram was tasked with guarding the opposing teams elite perimeter player for much of last season, and successfully made life difficult for Paul George, Jimmy Butler and a few others. Who no one else was able to guard btw.

    I'm new here, sorry guys if my post was too long.

  16. #116
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
    Mike Trudell
    @LakersReporter
    Brandon Ingram is doing a terrific job on CJ McCollum, whoís now 2 for 9. Ingram using his length and quickness to harass every attempt.


    Joey Ramirez
    @JoeyARamirez

    Feb 7
    Kyrie Irving when guarded by Brandon Ingram: 2-for-7 with 2 turnovers



    Jay King
    @ByJayKing

    Feb 7
    Kyrie said the Lakers length impacted him tonight. Singled out Brandon Ingram in particular.

    @lakersreporter
    Another good defensive effort all around, as Dallas shot 39.5%. Walton credited Brandon Ingramís job on Luka Doncic (2 for 13 FGís) and Lonzo Ball (5 steals) in general. Lakers were 11th in Def. Eff. before the game.

    Shots from at least 15 feet away went in 3.4 percent less frequently when Ingram was there to contest, and the effect was even more pronounced on three-pointers, where opponents shot just 30.7 percent, 4.7 points lower than the 35.4 average. For reference, Kawhi Leonard lowered the effectiveness of these same shots by 2.1 and 3.1 respectively, and he is quite good!
    https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2019/6...o-holiday-zion

    Ingram is still growing as a prospect, he's only 21 years old. I do believe his defense is being underrated due to some placing a higher value on steals and blocks. Ingram was tasked with guarding the opposing teams elite perimeter player for much of last season, and successfully made life difficult for Paul George, Jimmy Butler and a few others. Who no one else was able to guard btw.

    I'm new here, sorry guys if my post was too long.
    His defense is very under rated! He has potential to be one of the best defensive wings in the NBA and as he adds more strength and further develops his body I see him as a PG13 defender. PG13 is my comparison for Ingram as a 2 way player with even more potential. Let people sleep on him because they will soon look like fools! Love the post and itís never to long when there is good content! Welcome to the site!

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
    Mike Trudell
    @LakersReporter
    Brandon Ingram is doing a terrific job on CJ McCollum, who’s now 2 for 9. Ingram using his length and quickness to harass every attempt.


    Joey Ramirez
    @JoeyARamirez

    Feb 7
    Kyrie Irving when guarded by Brandon Ingram: 2-for-7 with 2 turnovers



    Jay King
    @ByJayKing

    Feb 7
    Kyrie said the Lakers length impacted him tonight. Singled out Brandon Ingram in particular.

    @lakersreporter
    Another good defensive effort all around, as Dallas shot 39.5%. Walton credited Brandon Ingram’s job on Luka Doncic (2 for 13 FG’s) and Lonzo Ball (5 steals) in general. Lakers were 11th in Def. Eff. before the game.

    Shots from at least 15 feet away went in 3.4 percent less frequently when Ingram was there to contest, and the effect was even more pronounced on three-pointers, where opponents shot just 30.7 percent, 4.7 points lower than the 35.4 average. For reference, Kawhi Leonard lowered the effectiveness of these same shots by 2.1 and 3.1 respectively, and he is quite good!
    https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2019/6...o-holiday-zion

    Ingram is still growing as a prospect, he's only 21 years old. I do believe his defense is being underrated due to some placing a higher value on steals and blocks. Ingram was tasked with guarding the opposing teams elite perimeter player for much of last season, and successfully made life difficult for Paul George, Jimmy Butler and a few others. Who no one else was able to guard btw.

    I'm new here, sorry guys if my post was too long.
    Great post

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    His defense is very under rated! He has potential to be one of the best defensive wings in the NBA and as he adds more strength and further develops his body I see him as a PG13 defender. PG13 is my comparison for Ingram as a 2 way player with even more potential. Let people sleep on him because they will soon look like fools! Love the post and it’s never to long when there is good content! Welcome to the site!
    Yea that's a good comp, he certainly has the potential to be as impactfull as PG.. Hopefully he can pick up a little more weight as he develops. If not he'll spend the bulk of his career as a 1/2/3, which is fine.

    And thanks for the welcome..

  19. #119
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    @HornetGuru Thank you.. =)

  20. #120
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
    Mike Trudell
    @LakersReporter
    Brandon Ingram is doing a terrific job on CJ McCollum, who’s now 2 for 9. Ingram using his length and quickness to harass every attempt.


    Joey Ramirez
    @JoeyARamirez

    Feb 7
    Kyrie Irving when guarded by Brandon Ingram: 2-for-7 with 2 turnovers



    Jay King
    @ByJayKing

    Feb 7
    Kyrie said the Lakers length impacted him tonight. Singled out Brandon Ingram in particular.

    @lakersreporter
    Another good defensive effort all around, as Dallas shot 39.5%. Walton credited Brandon Ingram’s job on Luka Doncic (2 for 13 FG’s) and Lonzo Ball (5 steals) in general. Lakers were 11th in Def. Eff. before the game.

    Shots from at least 15 feet away went in 3.4 percent less frequently when Ingram was there to contest, and the effect was even more pronounced on three-pointers, where opponents shot just 30.7 percent, 4.7 points lower than the 35.4 average. For reference, Kawhi Leonard lowered the effectiveness of these same shots by 2.1 and 3.1 respectively, and he is quite good!
    https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2019/6...o-holiday-zion

    Ingram is still growing as a prospect, he's only 21 years old. I do believe his defense is being underrated due to some placing a higher value on steals and blocks. Ingram was tasked with guarding the opposing teams elite perimeter player for much of last season, and successfully made life difficult for Paul George, Jimmy Butler and a few others. Who no one else was able to guard btw.

    I'm new here, sorry guys if my post was too long.
    That's the kinda long post we don't mind from newbies.

    Post more.

  21. #121
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
    Yea that's a good comp, he certainly has the potential to be as impactfull as PG.. Hopefully he can pick up a little more weight as he develops. If not he'll spend the bulk of his career as a 1/2/3, which is fine.

    And thanks for the welcome..
    IMO his game just compares to PG13 with a very similar skill set. The big difference is Ingram has elite length that you out in the same category as Giannis and Durant. People here love to mention the potential of a player do to elite length unless they are an Ingram hater then it means very little haha. I think he has a higher ceiling then PG13 but the big question is will he reach it and I believe he will come very close. I never bet against hard workers especially ones with elite talent and from everything heard about him is he basically lives at the gym. I have little doubt he won’t turn into an all star caliber SF as he enters his prime. Without being able to work on his game this summer I’m not as sure as I was on how fast we will see him reach a star level but I believe his play after the all star break will be at a star level.

    Ingram and Zion are both from Duke and have skill sets that compliment each other very well. It’s gonna take some time for these young guys to learn how to play with each other so some rough nights are to be expected early on especially when arguably 3/4 of our best players are under 21 years old.

    I would like to see him add around 10-15 lbs but strength is really the most important thing for him. Our new training staff is first class and arguably the best in the NBA. I expect them to get Ingram along with the rest of our guys in the best physical condition possible. He’s already scoring a 50% from FG at just 21 years old which is elite for a SF and any non big. Just imagine how much more efficient he can be as he continues to develop his body adding weight and strength. I agree we will see him a lot at the 2/3 while playing some point forward as a “1”.. I have a good feeling we will see a lot of small ball lineups that have Ingram and Zion at the 4/5 creating some serious problems for defenses. Ball/Jrue/Ingram/Zion is going to be one hell of a 2 way playing core 4 going forward. I can’t wait!

    Future is very bright for our Pelicans! Don’t ever shy away and post away! We can use more quality content.. Welcome to the family!!
    Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 06-28-2019 at 12:11 AM.

  22. #122
    Ingram has a lot of defensive potential. As some have mentioned, he does have elite physical measurements in terms of height and wingspan and everything. His problem is team defense: he's not that great at it. He does have some games where he plays well (Nichols listed some examples) but he also has games where he just seems to be asleep at the wheel.

    That's fine. I don't place as much value on him being ''only 21'' as some other people, but at the end of the day it is true, he's young. And by all reports, he hated LA and the team. I'm willing to give him a chance: if he comes to a new city, a new franchise, with a more defensive focus like we have right now, and puts the work in to play good team D, then I'll take it.

    I hope he does. Just like where I've said elsewhere that I don't even need his shooting to become elite, I just need league average, that's my thoughts on his team defense. He doesn't need to be Draymond Green, he just needs to put in his consistent effort every night and I'll take it. My expectations are realistic for him: I'm not asking for miracles. I want him to show me his ability.

  23. #123
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    How can you blame team defense on Ingram? This just shows you watched very little of him. He was given the toughest task to guard on the wing every night. Team defense has to do with the team and once Lonzo went down the Lakers “team” played no defense. That’s like saying Jrue isn’t really a good team defender because we didn’t play defense well as a unit. Team defense takes an entire unit to buy in and using last years Lakers team is about as poor of an example to use of any. Let’s see what team defense looks like here when we will be lead by Jrue setting the example along with 2 elite defense talents at their positions in Lonzo and Zion.

    Ingram being just 21 years old and showing the skill set he has this early absolutely is a big deal as it would be with any 21 year old kid with elite talent.

    Not only has Ingram been better then league average but he was elite from FG last season at 50%.. you can’t find a handful of non bigs with a better FG%. He also shot a very good % the season before at 47% which is up there with the best. If you wanna judge him off his roomie season go ahead but year 2 and 3 have been very good. He shot 39% from 3pt last season which is well above league average for any position and near elite as well. Much of his 3pt problems last year were adjusting to Lebron and once he did it paid off shooting much better from 3pt then his 33% on the season shows.

    Again he is just 21 years old coming off his 3rd season which has arguably is behind only Lebron and Durant at such a young age. You don’t have to believe he will be a star like me but let’s not ignore the facts and act like he hasn’t done the things you mentioned. Ingram just adding strength and improving from the FT line while staying consistent is a star player. I don’t think that is a lot to ask at all from a 21 year old in one of the worst situations in the NBA last season. I think most people here do have realistic expectations for him and that is an all star caliber 2 way wing and anything less would be a disappointment. He is 4 years away from even entering his prime so for people to knock and knit pick certain parts of his game is kind of comical. Go find me a 21 year old that has less holes in their game.
    Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 06-28-2019 at 01:19 AM.

  24. #124
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! AusPel's Avatar
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    Doncic

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Doncic
    Have you not seen what BI did in an 11 game stretch last season? Or how someone once tweeted he defended a player good? Clearly BI is the best under 19 year old in the entire league.

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