.
Pelicans Report
 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 35

Thread: Opportunity to rebuild the right way.

  1. #1

    Opportunity to rebuild the right way.

    8 years ago the then New Orleans Hornets won the lottery. With a chance to draft what was considered a franchise player. We draft Anthony Davis and the fan base was reenergized the future for many looked bright after losing the franchise's greatest player Chris Paul and a very public and some what ugly way.

    What happened following that off season was a huge mistake. The plan was to fast forward and build a team full of young vets that could not only win big in the future, but compete now. While in a vaccum the theory had merit in the current NBA climate it was the low percentage play. Young vets need to be paid. We matched a max contract for Eric Gordon who a) was injury prone and b) didn't want to be here. And we traded future assets for Jrue Holiday who had just signed a large contract extension coming off of an injury. Now any wiggle room for mistakes was practically non existent. And unfortunately a lot of things went wrong some more foreseeable than others. Once the problems started Demps only doubled down farther leaving us without a chance to draft a core player. Ultimately leading us to where we are are franchise player requesting a trade.

    Now winning the lottery again we are gifted with a chance to draft another guy considered a franchise changing player. Hopefully this time it's different under David Griffin. Hopefully this time we play the long game. We can trade Davis and Holiday for even more future assets. Use those assets to acquire as much high end talent on rookie deals that's available. If over the next 3 drafts we can get a title worthy core it'll mean we'll likely be competing from O'Brien trophies for a window of 5-8 years if not longer when those young men start to come into their own. This should have been the game plan 8 years ago. I think there should be no doubt(barring any major changes to the CBA) that this should be the way moving forward.

  2. #2
    NOLA Sports Addict Smow-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Southern Louisiana
    Posts
    765
    So who's gonna be your Andre Drummond this goaround?

    I kid, but man I really want to see us try the organic model, and we have the opportunity to do it with a clear leader+talent in Jrue.
    Jrue dat Boogieing wit the Brow?

  3. #3
    Hopefully Griffin was serious in his introductory presser when he talked about building ''generational success''. The way to do that is clearer than ever in today's NBA, where most of the best teams, and the teams that look like the future, are draft built. Golden State is the best team in the world. Klay, Curry, and Green were all drafted: their core. Denver had the 2nd best record in the east with Jokic and Murray at their core, who they drafted. Milwaukee is the best team in the East, and should be able to maintain that success next season: Giannis, Brogdon at the core of that, and their second best player is Middleton, who they picked up when he was still on his rookie deal.

    Acquire young talent, cheap. Build them up, work on their chemistry, really get them to fall in love with the city and then have them working for each other as much as for themselves. Then, when it's time to pay them, they'll have a reason to take the money, you'll have the bird rights, the city won't resent them being paid. Like I said, Golden State: they were on small deals for a while because they were rookie contracts, then rookie extensions (in Curry's case there was also an injury to depress his salary further), and by the time Curry gets offered the God-Father offer and Klay needs paying the big money, they've built the dynasty and as long as the owner is willing to spend, they're going to be able to keep that core together for yet another deep playoff run.

    It's all to do with being patient and making the right move, not the flashy move. It's flashy to trade 15 picks and players in one season and have total roster turnaround and stuff. Gets you talked about on ESPN. But it's not the formula for generational success.
    Watching Pelicans games is what Georges Bataille meant by limit experiences.

  4. #4
    Trade AD to Knicks or Lakers. Get RJ Barret or Hunter. Acquire more future picks. Keep building assets. This old way of just building through overpaying players needs to be supplemented by actually having drafting assets.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Trade AD to Knicks or Lakers. Get RJ Barret or Hunter. Acquire more future picks. Keep building assets. This old way of just building through overpaying players needs to be supplemented by actually having drafting assets.
    For me, it's the Knicks trade all day. Not only does it give us RJ, who I'm higher on than most in this draft, but it also gives us Mitchell Robinson, who I have been open about being extremely positive on. I think a low-usage, defensively minded big who is willing to do a lot of the dirty work but doesn't need any spotlight would be a good matchup around Zion, and again: he's young, he's cheap, and we get a chance to see him grow with the team.

    Not to mention the Knicks have a bunch of picks.

  6. #6
    I'm good on the future assets, that we are just compiling to hopefully trade for players of AD and Jrues stature. Far as I'm concerned Zion just got drafted into a Tim Duncan situation.

  7. #7
    We should only look at people that we can look into the future on and know they won't get injured.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    For me, it's the Knicks trade all day. Not only does it give us RJ, who I'm higher on than most in this draft, but it also gives us Mitchell Robinson, who I have been open about being extremely positive on. I think a low-usage, defensively minded big who is willing to do a lot of the dirty work but doesn't need any spotlight would be a good matchup around Zion, and again: he's young, he's cheap, and we get a chance to see him grow with the team.

    Not to mention the Knicks have a bunch of picks.
    I like the Knicks trade wayyyyy more than Lakers. I don't know RJ would be the best fit for SF. Hunter has a smooth 3pt shoot and solid FT%. We got to develop RJ's shoot, and that kind of scares me. Everything about RJ screams excellent player. His 3pt shoot is a little bit worrisome. NBA has really starting to hit a fork when it comes to Uber Athleticism and translatable Skillset. Luckily, he isn't gonna be a Ben Simmons, but his shooting needs to dramatically improve.

    So, I'm currently torn and no one else in the top 10 has got my interest like Hunter and RJ. Hunter being an OLD Sophmore and RJ being a freshman is another factor. Hunter was not setting the world on fire as a rookie like Barrett, but even then... He does have a great shooting stroke. I want to see some combine and more tape before really sitting on a talent. Right now... Barrett has the better potential, but Hunter is more NBA ready as solid spot up shooter that comes in with a superior vanilla offense.


    Luckily... We don't have to force a trade. I think we can honestly settle for best trade and player at draft position.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    We should only look at people that we can look into the future on and know they won't get injured.
    That's precisely nobody.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    I like the Knicks trade wayyyyy more than Lakers. I don't know RJ would be the best fit for SF. Hunter has a smooth 3pt shoot and solid FT%. We got to develop RJ's shoot, and that kind of scares me. Everything about RJ screams excellent player. His 3pt shoot is a little bit worrisome. NBA has really starting to hit a fork when it comes to Uber Athleticism and translatable Skillset. Luckily, he isn't gonna be a Ben Simmons, but his shooting needs to dramatically improve.

    So, I'm currently torn and no one else in the top 10 has got my interest like Hunter and RJ. Hunter being an OLD Sophmore and RJ being a freshman is another factor. Hunter was not setting the world on fire as a rookie like Barrett, but even then... He does have a great shooting stroke. I want to see some combine and more tape before really sitting on a talent. Right now... Barrett has the better potential, but Hunter is more NBA ready as solid spot up shooter that comes in with a superior vanilla offense.


    Luckily... We don't have to force a trade. I think we can honestly settle for best trade and player at draft position.
    I'm happy to give RJ a few years to develop, especially given the friendship he has with Zion. If there is any discontent about coming to NOLA (Which I doubt), the chance to play with RJ again will temper that.

    I don't think RJ will ever be a sniper, shooting 40%+, but he has the feeling to me of a shot-maker. Someone more like Lillard than Paul George, admittedly I'm picking big names there. I do see that Hunter is probably the more guaranteed player, but I'm willing to take the risk on RJs upside given that we already have the consensus superstar potential guy in Zion.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    That's precisely nobody.
    It's more mocking people who want to revisit history with that perfect hindsight. Much in the same way Guardian tried to make some odd argument to you yesterday about how trying to increase the lotto odds is worthless because we just so happened to beat the odds last night. It's ridiculous. Just because we got very lucky doesn't mean it will always happen that way. And revisiting our "mistakes" on how we built after getting AD is just as ignorant because the team was riddled with injury mishaps. Even forgotten stuff like how Jrue was hampered two playoff runs ago.

  12. #12
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    NOLA
    Posts
    7,176
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    It's more mocking people who want to revisit history with that perfect hindsight. Much in the same way Guardian tried to make some odd argument to you yesterday about how trying to increase the lotto odds is worthless because we just so happened to beat the odds last night. It's ridiculous. Just because we got very lucky doesn't mean it will always happen that way. And revisiting our "mistakes" on how we built after getting AD is just as ignorant because the team was riddled with injury mishaps. Even forgotten stuff like how Jrue was hampered two playoff runs ago.
    LoL literally everyone is talking about how tanking is ridiculous and this draft should show that it is not rewarded. Exactly what I said all along wether we won or lost the lottery. Luck or not I was 100% correct. What was ridiculous is how people were acting at the end of the season ignoring reality. I was all for losing more games and increasing our odds. But I didn’t throw some fit everytime it didn’t work out because Gentry did or didn’t do this and that.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    I'm good on the future assets, that we are just compiling to hopefully trade for players of AD and Jrues stature. Far as I'm concerned Zion just got drafted into a Tim Duncan situation.
    The point is finding players on similar trajectories. Holiday will be 29 in a few weeks. By the time Williamson will be nearing his prime in 4-6 years Holiday will be exiting his. No way Holiday is on Robinson level to compare this situation to the Spurs and even if we are saying Davis is the Admiral he doesn't want to be here.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    The point is finding players on similar trajectories. Holiday will be 29 in a few weeks. By the time Williamson will be nearing his prime in 4-6 years Holiday will be exiting his. No way Holiday is on Robinson level to compare this situation to the Spurs and even if we are saying Davis is the Admiral he doesn't want to be here.
    I'm talking about AD as the Admiral. AD didnt want to be in the previous situation. When we shared a training staff and a President of BASKETBALL operations with a football team, we didnt have a scouting department, ownership invested no money into the organization, no real assets to bring in more talent. Because of his trade request, this franchise has done a 180 in a matter of months. I think he would welcome this situation any day over going to play second fiddle in NY or become the scapegoat in LA. AD not even a big market type of personality, he loves his privacy. The man had a baby and nobody knew he even had a girlfriend.

    Duncan was drafted in 1997 and won his first ring in 1999. I see a similar trajectory for Zion if we keep AD.

    Let's say we trade Jrue and AD. And spend the next 3-4 seasons in the lottery. How would Zion view this team at that point? Let's get him into the playoffs from Year 1. We will all be better off for it. Not just show AD that this is a newly ran franchise, but also show Zion that the rumors no longer apply.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    I'm talking about AD as the Admiral. AD didnt want to be in the previous situation. When we shared a training staff and a President of BASKETBALL operations with a football team, we didnt have a scouting department, ownership invested no money into the organization, no real assets to bring in more talent. Because of his trade request, this franchise has done a 180 in a matter of months. I think he would welcome this situation any day over going to play second fiddle in NY or become the scapegoat in LA. AD not even a big market type of personality, he loves his privacy. The man had a baby and nobody knew he even had a girlfriend.

    Duncan was drafted in 1997 and won his first ring in 1999. I see a similar trajectory for Zion if we keep AD.

    Let's say we trade Jrue and AD. And spend the next 3-4 seasons in the lottery. How would Zion view this team at that point? Let's get him into the playoffs from Year 1. We will all be better off for it. Not just show AD that this is a newly ran franchise, but also show Zion that the rumors no longer apply.
    It doesn't appear that Davis is backing off his trade request. That genie seems to be out of the bottle. I'd rather not risk losing Davis for nothing just hoping he will buy in.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    It doesn't appear that Davis is backing off his trade request. That genie seems to be out of the bottle. I'd rather not risk losing Davis for nothing just hoping he will buy in.
    That's my thought process. He wants to go, I'm happy to accommodate. AD has spent 7 seasons on this team. In that time, he has won us nothing. Yes, a large amount of that is due to front office incompetence, but not always: this season, for example, could have been another playoff run, but he chose to give up halfway through and throw the team to the dogs. That's fine. He doesn't want to be here, he hasn't won here, partially his own fault, partially not, but it's not like he has 0 blame for that.

    We've given him the keys to the franchise for a huge part of the last decade. He's been given free reign, been made the face of the franchise. Jrue Holiday is a perfect running mate for him, and we just got the ticket for Zion. Combine that with the fact that we have the largest contract in NBA history on the table for him, that's all we're offering. If I'm offering him that, I'm not also doing a four month audition from him. Miss me with that trash. Either he's all in on $240m, Jrue Holiday, and Zion Williamson, or he can get on his bike.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    It doesn't appear that Davis is backing off his trade request. That genie seems to be out of the bottle. I'd rather not risk losing Davis for nothing just hoping he will buy in.
    Less than 24 hours since the draft lottery. About 45 days from free agency. I wouldn't say he wouldn't back off from the trade request. Give it time. If he wants to leave then trade him. If he wants to stay, it's a dynasty, we should be ecstatic.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    That's my thought process. He wants to go, I'm happy to accommodate. AD has spent 7 seasons on this team. In that time, he has won us nothing. Yes, a large amount of that is due to front office incompetence, but not always: this season, for example, could have been another playoff run, but he chose to give up halfway through and throw the team to the dogs. That's fine. He doesn't want to be here, he hasn't won here, partially his own fault, partially not, but it's not like he has 0 blame for that.

    We've given him the keys to the franchise for a huge part of the last decade. He's been given free reign, been made the face of the franchise. Jrue Holiday is a perfect running mate for him, and we just got the ticket for Zion. Combine that with the fact that we have the largest contract in NBA history on the table for him, that's all we're offering. If I'm offering him that, I'm not also doing a four month audition from him. Miss me with that trash. Either he's all in on $240m, Jrue Holiday, and Zion Williamson, or he can get on his bike.
    Give me Zion over the Rocket's season every day of the week. Heck even Portland's season. Anything short of a championship, screw a playoff run this season, we got Zion Williamson.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    Less than 24 hours since the draft lottery. About 45 days from free agency. I wouldn't say he wouldn't back off from the trade request. Give it time. If he wants to leave then trade him. If he wants to stay, it's a dynasty, we should be ecstatic.
    We have time on our side and if Davis is willing to buy in I think you have to entertain the possibility. If he's willing to sign his extension this offseason then fine.

    My problem with your Spurs analogy is that Duncan was a 4 year Sr. and fully prepared to contribute at an All-NBA player day 1. Not fair to expect that from Williamson. If his maturity takes a little longer it puts our timeline in jeopardy once again.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    We have time on our side and if Davis is willing to buy in I think you have to entertain the possibility. If he's willing to sign his extension this offseason then fine.

    My problem with your Spurs analogy is that Duncan was a 4 year Sr. and fully prepared to contribute at an All-NBA player day 1. Not fair to expect that from Williamson. If his maturity takes a little longer it puts our timeline in jeopardy once again.
    Fair point on Zion being younger than Duncan. I just believe he will be one of them Lebron, Melo, Blake Griffin, Donavan Mitchell, Ben Simmons type of rookie. That's going to be a star from day one. Pair him with the pair of 2 way superstars we already have and it's going to be dangerous. I also have alot of belief in our young guys who gained valuable experience last season in Frank, Cheick, Kenrich and Woods. That can be four rotation players costing us a combined $6M. We'll make Denver Nuggets noise except with the seasoned stars (AD and Jrue) to put us over the top.

  21. #21
    Back Door Man RUFshreve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Shreveport
    Posts
    2,255
    Firstly, I haven't been around in awhile. How y'all been?

    Secondly, why is any Pel fan here even mentioning the Lakers as a potential trade partner? Only Lakers fans and the media is dumb enough to think they have they assets to land AD.

    Last but not least, these reports that winning the lottery hasn't changed AD's opinion on staying couldn't possibly mean less. Of course AD's opinion hasn't changed, he hasn't had the meeting with David Griffin yet.

    These seem like such obvious points, yet I'm seeing them come up alot here.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    We have time on our side and if Davis is willing to buy in I think you have to entertain the possibility. If he's willing to sign his extension this offseason then fine.

    My problem with your Spurs analogy is that Duncan was a 4 year Sr. and fully prepared to contribute at an All-NBA player day 1. Not fair to expect that from Williamson. If his maturity takes a little longer it puts our timeline in jeopardy once again.
    I do not think AD will want to swallow pride/eat crow/whatever you want to call it and stay, even if he thinks it would be the best basketball situation. If he did stay though, I think we'd be a championship contender by Zion's third year. Those two on the back end of the defense would be suffocating.

  23. #23
    I'm most intrigued by the Lakers package out of all the available "young asset" packages. And I say F it just send AD there unless David Griffin gets creative and snags a star elsewhere for AD or convinces AD to stay.

    Get #4, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart, + filler (avoid Lonzo).

    Holiday
    Reddish
    Ingram
    Kuzma
    Zion

    Length, athleticism, spacing. Formula for modern NBA

    You need 3+ shooters, 3 playmakers, and 4 defenders. And legitimate NBA talents on the bench.

    This how we build around Zion. It should be called the Giannis 2.0 Plan
    Last edited by akhan786; 05-16-2019 at 10:08 AM.

  24. #24
    I like the Knicks package the best. At this point its not even close.

    #3, Smith Jr, Robinson, Knox (tho not crazy about him) and whatever fillers that make the trade possible. There is a chance Memphis takes Barrett over Morant. Oh boy!

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    I like the Knicks package the best. At this point its not even close.

    #3, Smith Jr, Robinson, Knox (tho not crazy about him) and whatever fillers that make the trade possible. There is a chance Memphis takes Barrett over Morant. Oh boy!
    Where'd you here the rumor about Memphis? I saw it reported they were locked in on Ja.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •