This is my thoughts.
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I dont value knox much, he hasnt show anything. Barret is only realy good asset they have(their picks will be bad if they get kyrie and/or KD in FA)
Half of Lakers package will demand a trade year after .
Im still leaning toward Celtics package especially if they offer both Tatum and Brown and Memphis pick which is likley going to end up in top 5.
I'm more like Veruca Salt.
Before the Lotto, my mind had fantasized of an AD for Zion trade. I know it wasn't likely. I think it was just to cope with the situation we were in. That not working and our future revolving around Tatum and our 8th pick or something like it was resignation. Depression. But I was moving towards acceptance.
Now I'm just looking at all the options and saying NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!!
That's the wonderful gift of leverage!
And not only leverage, but we don't have to look at things in a vacuum anymore. Before we were just discussing what we thought to be the best trades. Now we get to ask, what are the best trades for a team building around Zion, which is more specific and therefore more helpful
Yeah. I'm just not a fan of these future picks from LAL and NYK since they'll be late picks and I think Boston has lost their footing and won't bet the farm. So in my mind, our positioning may have gotten better but the only customers coming to the store can't afford what we're hoping.....there's always the chance of another team, but I think at the end of the day, AD is only going to net Kuzma/pick 4/and change or #3 pick/Knox/and change.
When all is said and done, I think we're still sitting pretty but the trade will be a letdown.
I'll take AD for RJ Barrett/Mitchell Robinson/Kevin Knox/2021+2023 Mavs picks/2020 Knicks pick
Is it perfect? Nah, cause as you said, any team that takes AD will see the value of their draft pick drop immediately, but it still gets us a young, lengthy wing who we know Zion plays well with + a young, cheap, athletic rim protector and rebounder + another flyer on a wing with some skills even if their first year was disappointing + a bunch of bites at the cherry for the future.
I'll take that over Tatum + the 14th pick for a Zion team, or over Mr. BloodClots + Lonzo Brick + 4th pick.
I think we need to kill the idea that Knox is the most promising player in the NY deal. Mitchell Robinson has a much higher ceiling and showed a lot more in his rookie season. Kuzma is the best asset that LA has, imo, since the 4th pick faces a pretty severe drop off in this draft. So the question becomes which is the most attractive core piece: RJ Barrett with the 3rd pick, or Kyle Kuzma? For me, it's Barrett no question
When we didn't know their draft slots, I would say the Lakers assets were way worse than the Celtics. I know most have soured on Tatum a bit, but I haven't. But the Lakers having a top 4 pick is very meaningful.
I mean, we assume teams covet Ja Morant and RJ Barrett because we do, but I can totally see someone shooting up the board as we get into visits and workouts. Getting the Lakers pick could still end up getting us Barrett....
I'll even say Ja Morant too. I didn't see us winning the lottery as realistic...but here we are. Dreams are becoming reality. Keep it rolling.
We have to remember that Griffin is rolling with Gentry for a reason. He has a vision of a pace and space system. We need more shooters for that to work and keep pace with the current landscape. I would suspect that Tatum is a key target for what we are looking for. He is plug and play. Is he as valuable as AD? No, not by a longshot. However, we will also get other pieces that can be flipped to get us another good player. I’d take two all star caliber players over one potential MVP all day every day. We need a shooting wing bad and Tatum is a sure thing in my opinion.
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Further consideration for the Knick's trade....
We have a strong tie to Phoenix via Gentry, Griff, and Nelson. Those guys presumably have a good relationship with Canada's own, Steve Nash.
RJ Barrett is Steve Nash's godson, in addition to being one of Zion's best friends.
DSJ is an explosive lead guard. He's still extremely young and has struggled a bit with injuries. Nelson could be a great influence on his career if he can continue to develop just by being healthy. DSJ and Zion pregame warm up sessions could be must see slam dunk contest.
Going into next season with a combo of Okafor and Mitchell Robinson to cover the marginal 20 minute center role when we're not going "small" with Zion at the 5, would be excellent versatility.
Knox is the 3rd youngest player in the NBA. Anybody complaining he hasn't shown anything yet is being unreasonable. He's got a lot of potential and a great frame to play SF and the occasional small ball PF.
Those future picks just provide opportunities to package Moore/Hill and other trash for players that can actually bridge the Jrue - Zion timelines and turn this team into a real playoff team sooner rather than later. And the Knicks players will be on rookie deals longer than the Lakers/Celtics players which gives us further flexibility/time to get this thing built the right way.
It's always been Knicks for me, even more so now!
I agree with everything you said but with the Knicks not Celtics. I would rather RJ over Tatum who is Zions best friend and has already proved he is a great compliment averaging 22 ppg on his own. RJ doesn’t have some broken shot and is developing just like any other young freshman. He has the talent to be every bit as good as Tatum shooting and better. I would use the Knicks future picks along with their Dallas pick and Knox/DSJr to trade for someone like Beal. We would land one of the best shooters in the NBA who is an all star guard and fits in with exactly what we need. You add Robinson in at center and that’s a legit starting 5. Plus you have Trier who is looking like one of the best young shooters in the NBA. Would be a great addition to our bench.
Jrue/Frank
Beal/Trier
RJ/Keinrich
Zion/Wood/Diallo
Robinson/Okafor
I think that team is ready to enter the discussion for the WCF. IMO by year 2 this group is ready to be serious contenders. The starting lineup compliments each other perfectly. I love the bench as well which was basically our starting group at the end of the season and actually winning is games. We have enough talent to stagger a couple from the starting unit with the bench as well. Sure can add another veteran or 2 possibly to the bench but I don’t really see anyone in that lineup I would want to replace. This is team is a very realistic possibility and would be about as ideal as it gets.
What about something like this:
AD & Solomon Hill for Lebron & 4pick?
What do You think?
Pelicans are still not interested in trading AD to the Lakers, even after LA landed the No. 4 pick, per @WindhorstESPN pic.twitter.com/KtHLqoKLpA
— Bleacher Report (@BleacherReport) May 15, 2019
:hihi: get wrecked, LA
Great I'd rather the Knicks deal as of know. Tatum and Brown have regressed from last year and have one less year on their rookie deals. But I'd rather take my chances with Boston than the Lakers. Ball and Ingram has shown less than Tatum and Brown overall and the 4th pick seem to be a significant drop off from the top 3 players.
With AD being from Chicago would y’all trade him for Lavine, maurkelson, the 7th pick and their first next year?
I bet on RJ Barrett, the presumptive #1 pick going into the draft, reaching his potential. He had a better season at Duke than Ingram or Tatum, and people act like he was a disappointment!
DSJ at PG in a Gentry system might be amazing. He's much much better than Elfrid, and Elfrid looked 10x better than he has ever looked playing in our system.
I really like the Knicks potential offer, but I'm also able to talk myself into any of the others! The fun thing at this point... is every AD trade feels like gravy and the only way I think this gets screwed up is if Klutch starts leaking that AD is determined to go to Lakers and intends to sign with them next summer no matter where he is traded....
If I'm Griff... I request best and final offers right before my meeting with AD, and I'm making a deal as soon as I walk out of that meeting unless AD agrees to sign his extension.
I don’t know if anyone brought this up but, if you want some comedy go to Twitter and in the search type “Pelicans Lakers regret offer” grab a nice glass of bourbon and enjoy
I don't think they'd do it, but even if they did, I'm not sure. Markkanen is good and he's got the kind of shooting you'd want to put around Zion that would help drag big men out of the paint, but Lavine isn't a great player (he's okay, but not great) and he's getting basically $20m a year. That's a lot of money to pay someone who would be, in a perfect world, the fourth option on your team (behind Zion, Jrue, and Lauri). Combine that with the fact that he's a pretty poor defender, and I'd be sceptical. Especially when this draft falls off hard after 3 or 4 picks, and their spot is 7th.
Would love this trade. Lavigne and Jrue would be a very dangerous back court and $20 million for a player of Lavines caliber is a steal in today’s market. Throw in Markanen and you have a legit 7’ big who would be a perfect fit in Gentry’s system at the 4 while playing a small ball 5. I would make sure Wendell Carter Jr. was throw in that deal as well. Would be a move for the Bulls where they would believe AD their hometown kid can then bring in another star to play in Chicago. Trade makes a lot of sense for both sides but I’m still going with the Knicks. I think getting RJ is becoming more and more important. We know he is a great fit next to Zion as well and don’t have to hope they can play off each other. These 2 played with each and off each other as well as any duo I have ever seen in college basketball and both were just freshman. The much more open floor in the NBA is much better suited for their games as well where college takes a lot away from their talents. If both develop their 3 point shots this duo is deadly for the next decade plus.
Do we still sign Randle to maybe mentor Zion?
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I would love to bring Randle back and wouldn’t mind paying him but he would have to accept a role as our 6th man. Would be a great person for Zion to learn some things from while developing his own. I just don’t see Randle back since he will want $ and a starting role. Not the best fit for what we need and I would rather invest that $ elsewhere.
Salary cap is $109m. We have about $80m guaranteed going into next season, assuming Randle opts out. Zion's rookie deal will be somewhere in the region of $8-10m, not exactly certain but Ayton got $8.2m last season. So that puts us at somewhere around $90m. $109-$90 = $19m, ish.
If you trade AD to the Knicks, they will want you to take back most of his salary, cause they want their cap to go after Durant. So after trading him, we'd be looking at a fairly similar number, probably close to $90m, around $19m left.
Getting rid of Hill would probably require us to take back salary, at least in the short term: people trading their locked up contracts for the expiring, so losing him would probably not gain us very much.
Randle might want $19m just to himself if you want him back.
Edit: forgot that the NY trade would involve the 3rd pick, which would mean we'd have to sign RJ Barrett too. Last year's 3rd pick was Doncic, who cost $6.5m, so you can imagine Barrett would cost probably around the same. So that $19m left is more like $12.5m
Thanks. So really no hope in signing any big free agents then. I was thinking maybe the Knicks had enough to take on Davis’ contract with not having to provide similar salary because they had the cap space. I was thinking maybe a third team in the trade could take on Hill’s contract for some of the picks we may get.
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The Knicks do theoretically have the cap space, so they COULD do it, but they want their free cap space to try for KD and Kyrie. Maybe they would do it, who knows, but I just think it's unlikely.
That said, David Griffin is the cap wizard. Apparently he had somehow worked out a way to get PG13 to Cleveland in the same year that they had the highest salary in NBA history, before Indiana took it back. So if it can be done, and he wants to do it, Griff will do it.
I have lurked for a long time, figured I would go ahead, register, and post. I still dig the Celtics package around Tatum, Brown, and the Memphis pick next year. I am not convinced RJ would be better than either Tatum or Brown. I think you might be able to get them to throw in the 14th pick as well. I love Brandon Clarke, not sure he would drop that far, but I am all in on Clarke. I know he is older, but progression is not linear. He reworked him jump shot this last year, and vastly improved his percentages, while it does not look great, it is night and day from where it was last year. There is also no way he is not a plus plus defender at the NBA level, and he he has some playmaking ability. I love the idea of closing out games with Zion and Clarke front-court. I am also really high on the package the Clippers could offer around SGA, Landry Shamet, and the 2021 Heat pick You would not have to take back salary either and could trade AD into cap space. I am also abnormally high on SGA though, way more than most. I might like him better than the headliner of any of these deals Tatum, Ingram, Barrett. He’s a good multi multipositional, you saw him drop 25 in a playoff game already, his jumper just keeps getting better, he’s a good playmaker, and he the pace he plays with at his age is something to behold. Shamet is basically new JJ, he’s going to be a sniper for a long time in this league. He can also playmake a little bit, while he will never be a lockdown defender, he tries, has good instincts, and a high basketball IQ. Also the Miami 2021 pick might be the most valuable future pick owed. While it won’t be the double draft, who knows where Miami is then. They don’t seem to be in the thick of it for any of these guys, but you are betting against Pat Riley so who knows. The Knicks package just doesn’t excite me as much. Im not super high on Barrett, he’s obviously a good prospect, but Im not in love. His shooting mechanics are solid, but his percentages suck. He didn’t seem to do much off the ball offensively, especially considering his athleticism. While he is a good playmaker especially for his size, he seems to be a bit of a ball stopper. He isn’t a great finisher at the rim especially considering his athleticism. He’s a pretty good on the ball defender, but doesn’t appear to have great instincts, or a very high defensive basketball iq. All those things can be fixed, but I wouldn’t be shocked if in three years he’s Andrew Wiggins who tries on defense. I love Mitchell Robinson, but would not be thrilled longterm with surrounding Zion with a 5 who has no hope of ever spacing the floor. The other guys to me are kind of blah. I doubt DSJ ever becomes more than a middling NBA starting PG. I still think Knox has potential, but his defensive metrics were horrendous, and there is still a lot he has to figure out. The Lakers package is the Lakers package. The dark house seems to be the Nuggets. You would have to assume Jamal Murray, Michael Porter jr, Gary Harris, and Monte Morris would all be on the table. You might take back Will Barton’s contract too. Long term a Jrue/Murray backcourt seems interesting. Murray gives you the shooting you need to surround Zion with to, as well as some of the playmaking load. Anyways good to be here guys.
"We can hold onto [Davis] and let him see what we really are," Griffin continued. "[Winning the lottery] changes how quickly he can buy into it. It gets us closer. Every day, maybe he believes a little more. As much as elite talent likes to play with elite talent, I can't imagine any elite player in his prime looking at our situation and saying to himself, 'There's a better grouping to play for' than ours." -David Griffin.
In other words, this is Griffin's way of indirectly telling AD..."Yo, listen, if your main goal is to win a NBA championship and you're all about winning, how is going to the Knicks, Boston or LA, an increase/a better percentage of winning a 'chip than the current team that you're on with Jrue and Zion?...Especially after we receive all of the good players in exchange for you, you'll then be on a lesser squad, with even less of a chance of winning a championship? Staying in Nawlins is the best chance of you winning a ring, son."
Side note: I just don't think the Knicks will get both KD and Kawhi...Irving and AD can't win a championship alone in NY. But, AD, Zion, and Jrue here along with deadly shooter like Kemba Walker with a great PG can def win you a ring.
F it, trade next years 1st/Jrue for Wall and sign Walker.
Wall
Walker/Or find a way to keep Jrue too.
Zion
AD
Randle
AD isn't going to sign an extension for any team even if he gets traded now. Therefore, it is best to wait until the last few days before the trade deadline well late into the season. By then, who knows, maybe he will change his mind.
AD, if you're reading this, please man, stay or at-least sign for 1-2 extra years...
Cap wizards, flame me now.
Edit: Forgot about Wall's injury. Dang it.
Well, first things first, welcome to the posting! Great time to start, with the Zion news, lots of stuff getting posted.
I don't think that RJ would be better than Tatum or Brown either, at least not in his rookie year. But next season, Tatum will be 21, and Brown will be 23. Now obviously, neither of those ages are old, but RJ will still be 19 and younger than both, so I'm not expecting him to be on third or fourth year level as a rookie. I'd also add that the Celtics better be adding the 14th pick, because if they don't then I don't do the trade: I want at least the Memphis pick and one of their picks for this year, and the 14th is the best they got.
As for Clarke, I do kind of agree about a lot of his benefits, but I have some doubts. He's very undersized for a center, and normally that's not too big a deal: you know, Zion's a little undersized too. But Zion has a basically 7'0 wingspan which helps, whereas Clarke's span is only 6'8. That's pretty small for a guy whose skill set is only really suited to play in the C/PF positions.
There's a lot to say here. Obviously some of it is opinion, and if you don't like Barrett then you don't like Barrett, but I think that calling him Andrew Wiggins + Defense isn't the worst thing in the world: Wiggins sucks, but a large part of the reason he sucks is that he doesn't bother at all on defense and his contract is big. If he was on that rookie scale deal and played D, he wouldn't be disliked nearly as much. He does have a lot to improve on, but at the same time I can't agree with some of your assessments. I think he's a better defender than all that, and while I agree that he was a little bit of a ballstopper in college, part of that seems to come from the way the offense was run and the fact that he was so hyped coming into the year. Add to that the fact that he's so young, and I can imagine that being mentored by a guy like Jrue could really elevate his game to a pretty high level.
Robinson has value with Zion for two main reasons. The first is that Zion is a great shotblocker, but he's mostly a weakside shotblocker, not a back to the basket stalwart. Having someone like Robinson who can actually just lock down the paint would be pretty useful with AD leaving, and he's such a low usage player on offense it wouldn't suck too many shots away from Zion, Jrue, and RJ. He's a decent defender in space, so stretch bigs wouldn't kill him when those matchups come up, and while I agree that he's probably not going to be a sniper, it's too early in his career to say he has no hope of ever spacing the floor. People would have said the same about Brook Lopez for a long time and now he's dropping 27 foot bombs on Toronto in the ECF. At any rate, I'd be surprised if he couldn't develop a little 10 or 15 footer.
Knox's defense doesn't bother me right now, mainly because he's the third youngest player in the NBA and has shown signs. Given that we'd have Barrett, I'd be trusting Knox in more of a backup forward position and he wouldn't need to be excellent immediately because he has some potential, especially as a scorer.
Good to have you.
Would the jazz trade Donovan Mitchell and Gobert for AD?