Pelicans looking to get a top 5 pick?

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Cool, but here's the problem with your logic. You guys have Hawes in the open market in the MLE tourney at 3yrs 22M's that's 7 million a season. If that's the value for Hawes and Anderson is superior what is Anderson worth in the open market? You build the guy up when it's fits your narrative then you find a way to say he doesn't have value when that fits your narrative. You want it both ways.

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I think it's been said multiple times that Ryno's value was in the 10-11M range on the open market. The injury might have hurt him but one year removed and a good showing and I think he is right back there.

If Anderson was a FA after last year, I think he would have gotten around 10 mil per. Maybe 8-9 mil if he became one this year.

But what a guy gets in FA does not equate with value IMO. It is as much potential and fit. There will be 10 big guys who get more annually than Diaw this summer who aren't half the player. Just watch.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

If Anderson was a FA after last year, I think he would have gotten around 10 mil per. Maybe 8-9 mil if he became one this year.

But what a guy gets in FA does not equate with value IMO. It is as much potential and fit. There will be 10 big guys who get more annually than Diaw this summer who aren't half the player. Just watch.

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How much do you think gordon hayward and parsons will get?

Im thinking Hayward 12 mil because he is 2 years younger
Parsons 11 million

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Hawes is hitting free agency at 26 years and 1 month of age. Anderson will hit it at the age of 28. Also, Hawes is a legit 7 footer, and we live in a world where Jerome James gets paid because he is 7 feet tall. Todd Fuller gets drafted ahead of Kobe.

All I can do is look at the past and try to predict the future. I don't try to create a narrative. If you can find me 28 yr olds with Anderson's size, skill set, and production that got huge contracts, then I will say that I might be wrong. And maybe there aren't any, but I will be wrong anyway, but the past does not indicate that.

Example - Isaiah Thomas will get way underpaid for his production this summer because he doesn't fit a prototypical profile. Boris Diaw won't get paid this summer despite being a Finals MVP candidate. Some guys just don't get paid big money despite their production because they fit only certain teams and/or don't fit a prototype.

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So you are saying that 2" and 2 years are the difference between a par center getting 7 million per and a guy you think can be a core player on a championship team getting almost the same salary.

Again I'm just not getting how a player can be so valuable one minute and then so unvaluable next.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

How much do you think gordon hayward and parsons will get?

Im thinking Hayward 12 mil because he is 2 years younger
Parsons 11 million

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I think they are both 12M/yr or over. But so much depends on other players. If LBJ and Melo opt out. Is Parsons used as a S&T to clear Lin and Asik?

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

So you are saying that 2" and 2 years are the difference between a par center getting 7 million per and a guy you think can be a core player on a championship team getting almost the same salary.

Again I'm just not getting how a player can be so valuable one minute and then so unvaluable next.

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I get what ur saying, but i think MM is trying to think Ryno is more valuable to our team in general, maybe to space the floor for tyreke since we don't have a SF who can do that, therefor we need a 4 to space it, regardless of where the spacing comes from. I completely understand what ur saying though.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I think they are both 12M/yr or over. But so much depends on other players. If LBJ and Melo opt out. Is Parsons used as a S&T to clear Lin and Asik?

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I understand, for this team if salary cap wasn't an issue, how much would u pay each one for us if both were UFA?

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

So you are saying that 2" and 2 years are the difference between a par center getting 7 million per and a guy you think can be a core player on a championship team getting almost the same salary.

Again I'm just not getting how a player can be so valuable one minute and then so unvaluable next.

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Jrue is considered a core piece on a 10-11M/yr contract. Reke is considered a core piece and is on a 11M declining contract. Why is it so hard to believe Ryno who is valued at around 10M/yr can be a core piece? Are only max players core pieces?

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I understand, for this team if salary cap wasn't an issue, how much would u pay each one for us if both were UFA?

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If salary cap is no issue then I'd offer a max because it wouldn't matter. But every other team would too.

If I'm having to deal with a salary cap but both are UFA I go up to 13-14M range for Parsons. Hayward I'd offer less. I have Parsons rated higher.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I think it's been said multiple times that Ryno's value was in the 10-11M range on the open market. The injury might have hurt him but one year removed and a good showing and I think he is right back there.

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The question becomes after 2 seasons can we afford to re-sign Anderson when we'll need to sign Evans and Holiday the following offseason? These are the kinds of questions you also have to consider.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I get what ur saying, but i think MM is trying to think Ryno is more valuable to our team in general, maybe to space the floor for tyreke since we don't have a SF who can do that, therefor we need a 4 to space it, regardless of where the spacing comes from. I completely understand what ur saying though.

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You would have to believe we are the only team that values floor spacing or believe that's all Anderson does for that concept to make sense.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Jrue is considered a core piece on a 10-11M/yr contract. Reke is considered a core piece and is on a 11M declining contract. Why is it so hard to believe Ryno who is valued at around 10M/yr can be a core piece? Are only max players core pieces?

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A core piece for what? A solid playoff team or a title contender? I've never viewed neither Holiday or Evans as a core piece for a championship team at any points in their respective career and nothing have changed since they got here.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

A core piece for what? A solid playoff team or a title contender? I've never viewed neither Holiday or Evans as a core piece for a championship team at any points in their respective career and nothing have changed since they got here.

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haven't you yourself said the most you can hope to build is a WCF competitor? the rest is luck and other factors you can't control.

if that is the goal I think our team healthy and with an AD who has taken another step is just that. AD is key to any hope of our future team.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

haven't you yourself said the most you can hope to build is a WCF competitor? the rest is luck and other factors you can't control.

if that is the goal I think our team healthy and with an AD who has taken another step is just that. AD is key to any hope of our future team.

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I agree about AD, I also think jrue and tyreke are good core pieces. I also think ryno can be one but I think it would be better off getting a core SF and getting a cheap bruising center, I think this would make the team more complete.

Right now we don't have a SF who can spread the floor or a big that can defend the post, if we get a SF at least we address 1 of those issues.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

haven't you yourself said the most you can hope to build is a WCF competitor? the rest is luck and other factors you can't control.

if that is the goal I think our team healthy and with an AD who has taken another step is just that. AD is key to any hope of our future team.

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Yes, but as I just said this group IMO isn't that. Again I respect your views because you have way higher expectations for Davis than I do. However not only do I not share you ceiling for Davis even if he reaches "your" ceiling we still are a long shot to be title contenders IMO.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

The question becomes after 2 seasons can we afford to re-sign Anderson when we'll need to sign Evans and Holiday the following offseason? These are the kinds of questions you also have to consider.

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Now you are changing the discussion. You asked what his real value was and I gave it. As far as resigning him, it all depends. We can bring him back no doubt if we like our core as is or we can S&T him for different pieces.

That's one of the less discussed pieces of what Dell is doing. Instead of having a ton of young guys and hoping they develop you use developed guys to bring in core pieces around a then developed AD. Personally I think that's better because you know what AD is a lot better than drafting and hoping around your leader who is still too young to know what his game will be.

Also. Completely random and I don't know if anyone will get it but. . . GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

I don't know what is so hard to understand - guys get overpaid at 23, 24 coming off their first contract. It doesn't happen nearly as often in their next one.

Just watch what Lowry gets despite having a better year than guys who will get paid more than him. And he will be better over the next 3-4 years than a lot of the guys who get more money. I don't worry about Jrue, Reke, and Ryno getting overpaid on their next deals - not because they won't be good, but because even really good players don't often get overpaid at that stage of their career. I don't get it or agree with it, but it is how teams have done things in free agency historically.

This is what I found brilliant about Dell's move with Holiday - he found a guy who was extended at a bit of a discount, so that first overpay is avoided, and history says the 2nd one is rare. To me, guys like Greg Monroe and Klay Thompson are the kind of guys I would avoid - guys who are nowhere near max players that will get it because of their "potential". The team can't afford to let them walk because of the small chance they take a leap, but won't get them at their fair value either.

MM... Being a legit 7 footer is part of what actually could make Hawes more valuable. He can defend Centers.

I strongly disagree that the luxury of having Ryan Anderson coming off the bench, makes this team better next year than having Dunleavy starting at SF, Hawes at Center, and Vonleh coming off the bench.

Hawes and Dunleavy both stretch the court, and Vonleh can give you 20 mpg of serious production.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

MM... Being a legit 7 footer is part of what actually could make Hawes more valuable. He can defend Centers.

I strongly disagree that the luxury of having Ryan Anderson coming off the bench, makes this team better next year than having Dunleavy starting at SF, Hawes at Center, and Vonleh coming off the bench.

Hawes and Dunleavy both stretch the court, and Vonleh can give you 20 mpg of serious production.

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Why is it automatically assumed Ryno will always come off the bench? When he was healthy he and AD were starters,

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Why is it automatically assumed Ryno will always come off the bench? When he was healthy he and AD were starters,

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And even if he does, the guy got 36 minutes and finished games last year. Same as any other "starter"

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

And even if he does, the guy got 36 minutes and finished games last year. Same as any other "starter"

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36 minutes and closing games is a "luxury" obviously.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

36 minutes and closing games is a "luxury" obviously.

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I think his skill set is a luxury in that you can win with a guy like that but don't need it the way you need a perimeter guy who can set up, a big who can defend the paint, etc.

But he is such a good player, and I feel like most of us believe that too, but those who disagree have a loud voice and aren't afraid to use it. He is a top 40-50 player on a contract that will be somewhere between 120-140 in terms of how high it is in relation to others in the league.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I think his skill set is a luxury in that you can win with a guy like that but don't need it the way you need a perimeter guy who can set up, a big who can defend the paint, etc.

But he is such a good player, and I feel like most of us believe that too, but those who disagree have a loud voice and aren't afraid to use it. He is a top 40-50 player on a contract that will be somewhere between 120-140 in terms of how high it is in relation to others in the league.

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I wouldn't say a "luxury" skill as much as "alternate". He's not a standard type of big and therefor not every team can take advantage of him but as Dirk and others have shown, those types of players can be just as valuable as standard ones.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I wouldn't say a "luxury" skill as much as "alternate". He's not a standard type of big and therefor not every team can take advantage of him but as Dirk and others have shown, those types of players can be just as valuable as standard ones.

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Yeah, I don't know the word I am looking for. Maybe, non-universal?

I feel like there is an inside of the box idea of the 5 positions. Almost nobody refers to Ryno as a PF; its always a "stretch four"

Unconventional, but I agree, that doesn't mean less valuable. Diaw is an unconventional big. Derek Fisher was an unconventional PG, Horry and unconventional PF, Jason Terry an unconventional PG (where he often finished games before Kidd), etc. etc.

And guys like that often have more value to some teams than others, so they don't get crazy salaries, but the value is undoubtedly there. Ryno was crazy good his last year in Orlando, but how many bigs were there like Dwight on other teams that had money to bid for him? Ryno is a better player than Chandler Parsons or Gordon Hayward, but Hayward and Parsons will get paid more every time.

I know this is kind of irrelevant but they have Hayward and parsons rated in the mid to high 80's in 2k but they have Anderson rated at like a 67 which is outrageous. I know it's a video game but the outright disrespect Anderson gets on that game and just in general is bad. He's incredibly underrated and I say that as he averaged 20 ppg last season before his injury.

I just don't get it. We added 3 players all from other teams that were in the same situation coming off of their rookie deals and the consensus here is that all 3 deals are acceptable. Yet every player in those situations gets overpaid. So which is it? This is what I mean about having things both ways. Not every player coming off of a rookie deal just automatically get overpaid.

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Originally Posted by MMEmbreno

I know this is kind of irrelevant but they have Hayward and parsons rated in the mid to high 80's in 2k but they have Anderson rated at like a 67 which is outrageous. I know it's a video game but the outright disrespect Anderson gets on that game and just in general is bad. He's incredibly underrated and I say that as he averaged 20 ppg last season before his injury.

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Hayward is a 75 and Parsons a 76, but regardless, that game has the absolute worst rankings ever, I could go on and on and on about them.

Oj Mayo and Noah are both an 81, in what world is mayo even on noah's level

Ilysova is a 73 but Ryno is a 67?

Lou Williams a 79 jeff teague a 76? sorry teague is way better

Oladipo has a 86 3pt rating and Ryno only a 81? lmao

parsons a 76 and lin a 76?

jonas valanciunas a 69? but tyler hansbrough a 73?

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Hayward is a 75 and Parsons a 76, but regardless, that game has the absolute worst rankings ever, I could go on and on and on about them.

Oj Mayo and Noah are both an 81, in what world is mayo even on noah's level

Ilysova is a 73 but Ryno is a 67?

Lou Williams a 79 jeff teague a 76? sorry teague is way better

Oladipo has a 86 3pt rating and Ryno only a 81? lmao

parsons a 76 and lin a 76?

jonas valanciunas a 69? but tyler hansbrough a 73?

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Wow. I don't play video games, but if those are indeed the ratings then that is just ridiculous.

Would a team actually take Gordon and ryno for a top 5-7 pick?

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Originally Posted by saintsinNO

Wow. I don't play video games, but if those are indeed the ratings then that is just ridiculous.

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And those people who make that decision gets paid well.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I just don't get it. We added 3 players all from other teams that were in the same situation coming off of their rookie deals and the consensus here is that all 3 deals are acceptable. Yet every player in those situations gets overpaid. So which is it? This is what I mean about having things both ways. Not every player coming off of a rookie deal just automatically get overpaid.

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Not everybody in those situations gets overpaid. First of all, Jrue extended before he got the All-Star birth. Like Steph Curry, he would have gotten more if he waited the year and hit the market but went for security. I already explained to you why Ryno will never see huge money. And Tyreke was perceived to be regressing after what many deemed a spectacular rookie year, though his last year in Sacto was actually better. Also, Tyreke is seen as unconventional; doesn't have a clear cut position.

Not every guy gets overpaid in that position, but a lot of them certainly do. I don't mind debate with you - and it happens a lot since we rarely agree - but I just ask that you don't exaggerate my points. That is called a straw man fallacy. I never said "every player coming off a rookie deal gets overpaid." Disagree with me, thats fine. Just don't disagree with a radicalized version of me because that makes it easier for you.

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Originally Posted by saintsinNO

Wow. I don't play video games, but if those are indeed the ratings then that is just ridiculous.

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The overall rating in 2K means nothing. It is weighted heavier on certain categories. If and when you actually play the game, Ryno is a beast and far more effective than most of the guys with a higher overall rating. Has the catch and shoot attribute - whatever it is called. They don't give him his proper due on his post up game, but he can go off like he does in real life.

Can someone kindly update me on this thread?
I don't want to read 16 pages to find out that this is just all rumour.

What has been said by the Pelican's or just rumoured by a good source to be true?

Thanks

Think about the frontcourts in the western conference playoffs this year. Hell, think about he frontcourts in the west, period.

Ideally, for longevity of his career and optimizing his offensive potential, we don't want Davis banging around on the defensive end with Bogut, Howard, Jordan, Gasol, Splitter, Cousins, et al.

For all the thinking like Dell you want us to do, you seem to forget that the one thing Monty and Dell both seem to be in agreement about is that they want a Center!

Scroll back through previous post I've made. I love Ryan Anderson. I'm a fan. But I believe if you can replace his shooting threat which stretches the court, we'd be better off with a roster that features a real center next to AD. My problem with Ryan Anderson isn't Ryan Anderson, it's roster construction, and ultimately what AD is going to develop into. I think AD will develop into a LaMarcus Aldridge type, before he develops into a Dwight Howard type. He's got a better chance of being Kevin Love, than being Gasol. And if you have that guy, on your team, you don't ideally want to pare him with a Ryan Anderson type. You want a bigger, stronger guy.

I don't want to give away Ryan Anderson. But this thread is about Dell acquiring a top 5 pick. And if Dell thinks there is a guy in the top 5 who be an ideal paring with Anthony, you have to offer Ryan Anderson if that will get the deal done. Ryan's value to this team is spacing the court, and if you get the right SF, not an Aminu type, you can replace 80% of the value Ryno has to the Pelicans.

I'm seriously shocked that you guys think keeping Ryan Anderson, he of only 22 games, the small sample size, and not the ideal fit next to AD, is soooooo important to this team, that you wouldn't trade him.

Edit...seriously. A guy who you also argue isn't valuable enough to get paid more than $10m in 2 years, is worth more than a top 5 pick. Seriously... That's a rare group Ryan Anderson must be in.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Can someone kindly update me on this thread?
I don't want to read 16 pages to find out that this is just all rumour.

What has been said by the Pelican's or just rumoured by a good source to be true?

Thanks

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Guy that posted this rumor is a MLB writer, so take it for what it is worth.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Think about the frontcourts in the western conference playoffs this year. Hell, think about he frontcourts in the west, period.

Ideally, for longevity of his career and optimizing his offensive potential, we don't want Davis banging around on the defensive end with Bogut, Howard, Jordan, Gasol, Splitter, Cousins, et al.

For all the thinking like Dell you want us to do, you seem to forget that the one thing Monty and Dell both seem to be in agreement about is that they want a Center!

Scroll back through previous post I've made. I love Ryan Anderson. I'm a fan. But I believe if you can replace his shooting threat which stretches the court, we'd be better off with a roster that features a real center next to AD. My problem with Ryan Anderson isn't Ryan Anderson, it's roster construction, and ultimately what AD is going to develop into. I think AD will develop into a LaMarcus Aldridge type, before he develops into a Dwight Howard type. He's got a better chance of being Kevin Love, than being Gasol. And if you have that guy, on your team, you don't ideally want to pare him with a Ryan Anderson type. You want a bigger, stronger guy.

I don't want to give away Ryan Anderson. But this thread is about Dell acquiring a top 5 pick. And if Dell thinks there is a guy in the top 5 who be an ideal paring with Anthony, you have to offer Ryan Anderson if that will get the deal done. Ryan's value to this team is spacing the court, and if you get the right SF, not an Aminu type, you can replace 80% of the value Ryno has to the Pelicans.

I'm seriously shocked that you guys think keeping Ryan Anderson, he of only 22 games, the small sample size, and not the ideal fit next to AD, is soooooo important to this team, that you wouldn't trade him.

Edit...seriously. A guy who you also argue isn't valuable enough to get paid more than $10m in 2 years, is worth more than a top 5 pick. Seriously... That's a rare group Ryan Anderson must be in.

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They have both said they want a center for 15-20 minutes, to ease the wear and tear off AD. Said that was the initial reason they got Lopez and they plan for them. You won't be able to find me one quote where they say they want a 30-35 mpg prototypical center next to AD>

And I think you keep missing my point. I don't doubt they would get a traditional center if he was a great fit, even if that meant sacrificing Ryno. But to think Dell is going to take a step back next year for two steps forward in three years is just not likely given the expectations of Benson and Loomis. Now, I know you think fringe starters can come in and fill the role. But one, you gotta get them and teach them the offensive and defensive scheme that Ryno already knows. And two, hope they stay healthy and productive.

You keep acting like I am saying Ryno is definitely better than anybody in the top 5 long term. I am not saying that. I am saying he is miles better than any of them next year - the year Dell has to have this team take a jump to keep his job.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I just don't get it. We added 3 players all from other teams that were in the same situation coming off of their rookie deals and the consensus here is that all 3 deals are acceptable. Yet every player in those situations gets overpaid. So which is it? This is what I mean about having things both ways. Not every player coming off of a rookie deal just automatically get overpaid.

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I've seen you make this claim before and called you out on it. The above statement is absolutely, without question, FALSE. By tons of media and multiple people on this board Tyreke was overpaid. That's the entire reason we got him was we offered more than the Kings were willing to match. Jrue was argued to be on an acceptable contract but others have said because it goes up over 11M it's actually overpaid for his production. Ryno is the only one that was signed to a contract that would be considered undervalue and it was only because it was after a big change and with questions about how much of his a production was tied to Dwight that we got him for undervalue.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

They have both said they want a center for 15-20 minutes, to ease the wear and tear off AD. Said that was the initial reason they got Lopez and they plan for them. You won't be able to find me one quote where they say they want a 30-35 mpg prototypical center next to AD>

And I think you keep missing my point. I don't doubt they would get a traditional center if he was a great fit, even if that meant sacrificing Ryno. But to think Dell is going to take a step back next year for two steps forward in three years is just not likely given the expectations of Benson and Loomis. Now, I know you think fringe starters can come in and fill the role. But one, you gotta get them and teach them the offensive and defensive scheme that Ryno already knows. And two, hope they stay healthy and productive.

You keep acting like I am saying Ryno is definitely better than anybody in the top 5 long term. I am not saying that. I am saying he is miles better than any of them next year - the year Dell has to have this team take a jump to keep his job.

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I get that completely. What I'm dumbfounded by is that you think Ryan Anderson, who also has to stay healthy (so don't throw that in like it's a knock on whoever Dell could acquire), would be better than what you call fringe starters (Dunleavy just scored 34 in a playoff game this year, and Hawes is a good player) AND Vonleh (or whoever Dell would target in the early lottery).

Ryan is good, but he's not that good. What makes Ryan valuable to the team can be replaced. You've said it yourself, three point shooters are the easiest thing to find.

I've been racking my brain trying to think who else in the entire NBA won't be worth more than $10m on their next contract, but is also more valuable than a top 5 pick in a good draft. Who else is on that list?

And if Dell is already making decisions in CYA mode, he should be fired now. That never works out for a franchise.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I get that completely. What I'm dumbfounded by is that you think Ryan Anderson, who also has to stay healthy (so don't throw that in like it's a knock on whoever Dell could acquire), would be better than what you call fringe starters (Dunleavy just scored 34 in a playoff game this year, and Hawes is a good player) AND Vonleh (or whoever Dell would target in the early lottery).

Ryan is good, but he's not that good. What makes Ryan valuable to the team can be replaced. You've said it yourself, three point shooters are the easiest thing to find.

I've been racking my brain trying to think who else in the entire NBA won't be worth more than $10m on their next contract, but is also more valuable than a top 5 pick in a good draft. Who else is on that list?

And if Dell is already making decisions in CYA mode, he should be fired now. That never works out for a franchise.

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See - now that is a legit complaint. If Dell is thinking more short term, maybe that is something we should worry about.

But Ryno was the most impactful player on our team last year because of how much space he gave everybody else. But it looks like that is the core of our disagreement and neither of us are going to change each others minds. And I am fine with that.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Think about the frontcourts in the western conference playoffs this year. Hell, think about he frontcourts in the west, period.

Ideally, for longevity of his career and optimizing his offensive potential, we don't want Davis banging around on the defensive end with Bogut, Howard, Jordan, Gasol, Splitter, Cousins, et al.

For all the thinking like Dell you want us to do, you seem to forget that the one thing Monty and Dell both seem to be in agreement about is that they want a Center!

Scroll back through previous post I've made. I love Ryan Anderson. I'm a fan. But I believe if you can replace his shooting threat which stretches the court, we'd be better off with a roster that features a real center next to AD. My problem with Ryan Anderson isn't Ryan Anderson, it's roster construction, and ultimately what AD is going to develop into. I think AD will develop into a LaMarcus Aldridge type, before he develops into a Dwight Howard type. He's got a better chance of being Kevin Love, than being Gasol. And if you have that guy, on your team, you don't ideally want to pare him with a Ryan Anderson type. You want a bigger, stronger guy.

I don't want to give away Ryan Anderson. But this thread is about Dell acquiring a top 5 pick. And if Dell thinks there is a guy in the top 5 who be an ideal paring with Anthony, you have to offer Ryan Anderson if that will get the deal done. Ryan's value to this team is spacing the court, and if you get the right SF, not an Aminu type, you can replace 80% of the value Ryno has to the Pelicans.

I'm seriously shocked that you guys think keeping Ryan Anderson, he of only 22 games, the small sample size, and not the ideal fit next to AD, is soooooo important to this team, that you wouldn't trade him.

Edit...seriously. A guy who you also argue isn't valuable enough to get paid more than $10m in 2 years, is worth more than a top 5 pick. Seriously... That's a rare group Ryan Anderson must be in.

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I agree. I don't know why it's so taboo to think of moving Ryan Anderson. After Eric Gordon, he's the first piece I'd want to move. I'm pretty sure they'll mess up the construction of this roster and have people out of place. I always think of how we can break the mold and be like the Spurs. A small market team that can actually win it all. With Anthony Davis, we've got a glimmer of hope, but I wouldn't bank on Ryan Anderson.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

See - now that is a legit complaint. If Dell is thinking more short term, maybe that is something we should worry about.

But Ryno was the most impactful player on our team last year because of how much space he gave everybody else. But it looks like that is the core of our disagreement and neither of us are going to change each others minds. And I am fine with that.

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MM.. I agree.

Ryan Anderson was the most impactful player on our team last year because of how much space he gave everybody else

But what if we replace our Small Forwards, who were terrible, with a 3pt shooter. Then doesn't that diminish how important Ryan Anderson is considering our SFs have been a liability on offense?! If someone else is capable of jacking up 7 three pointers a game and hitting at a good clip, do we really need Ryan? Now also imagine, in a world where we sign a Center like Hawes, we've got another player jacking up three pointers and hitting at a decent clip.

I've never said a healthy Ryan Anderson, based on current personnel and roster construction isn't extremely valuable. But what I keep arguing is that Dell has an opportunity to change the roster construction, which would diminish Ryan's value. I don't think we have a core 4 yet, and won't until a group of 4 guys demonstrate that they can compete in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

MM.. I agree.

Ryan Anderson was the most impactful player on our team last year because of how much space he gave everybody else

But what if we replace our Small Forwards, who were terrible, with a 3pt shooter. Then doesn't that diminish how important Ryan Anderson is considering our SFs have been a liability on offense?! If someone else is capable of jacking up 7 three pointers a game and hitting at a good clip, do we really need Ryan? Now also imagine, in a world where we sign a Center like Hawes, we've got another player jacking up three pointers and hitting at a decent clip.

I've never said a healthy Ryan Anderson, based on current personnel and roster construction isn't extremely valuable. But what I keep arguing is that Dell has an opportunity to change the roster construction, which would diminish Ryan's value. I don't think we have a core 4 yet, and won't until a group of 4 guys demonstrate that they can compete in the playoffs.

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A good shooting SF is far different because he doesnt bring a big out of the lane.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

A good shooting SF is far different because he doesnt bring a big out of the lane.

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Pair a good shooting SF with a Center like Hawes and what happens...

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

A good shooting SF is far different because he doesnt bring a big out of the lane.

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Another thing to add to this is that a SF who can shoot for the Pelicans will stop the opposing team putting a SF on Ryan Anderson.
Now they have to play thier PF on Ryan.

I'm also holding my breath waiting for someone to come up with the list of players that won't be worth more than $10m/yr on their next deals, but are also worth more than a top 5 pick in a good draft.

Only guys I could come up with will be 30 when they hit free agency. And I think their teams would probably trade them, and I think they also might get over $10m a year. So I'm stuck.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Another thing to add to this is that a SF who can shoot for the Pelicans will stop the opposing team putting a SF on Ryan Anderson.
Now they have to play thier PF on Ryan.

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I get all this on the offensive end, but like MM likes to say...you got two ends to the basketball court. If I felt good about Ryan Anderson or Anthony Davis guarding Marc Gasol or Dwight Howard, this conversation about trading Anderson for a top 5 might be different.

I don't think Monty is comfortable sacrificing defense for offense.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I get all this on the offensive end, but like MM likes to say...you got two ends to the basketball court. If I felt good about Ryan Anderson or Anthony Davis guarding Marc Gasol or Dwight Howard, this conversation about trading Anderson for a top 5 might be different.

I don't think Monty is comfortable sacrificing defense for offense.

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I guess you think that Davis will always be a PF.
I don't....I think he will play both.

Everyone but Davis is an asset and to think otherwise is crazy. Do we need another good center? Yes, but not to the effect of breaking down the team. We need a little stability and not flip flopping our roster every couple of years. We can roll out Ryno at the 4 and Davis at the 5 for most of the game and do well. What we are looking for is someone to probably give us 15-20 minutes a game and/or grow into a solid full time center. I think Embiid could do it and he'd be on a time limit to start. But If you would get rid of Ryan it better be for a solid 3 and then your still going to have to get a good center to give you 30ish minutes a game. This whole thread was about getting into the top 5 and I don't think it will happen. I'm still on the Monroe wagon which whether you like it or not is a Dell kind of move. A not to young player that shouldn't have to be taught the game. MM is right, Dell besides the 2012 draft has traded most of his picks especially 1st rounders. I think if he gets a pick fairly high I'm betting its going to be in a bigger deal for a veteran player but thats just my feeling. If its a later pick I think its to grab a project SF.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I've seen you make this claim before and called you out on it. The above statement is absolutely, without question, FALSE. By tons of media and multiple people on this board Tyreke was overpaid. That's the entire reason we got him was we offered more than the Kings were willing to match. Jrue was argued to be on an acceptable contract but others have said because it goes up over 11M it's actually overpaid for his production. Ryno is the only one that was signed to a contract that would be considered undervalue and it was only because it was after a big change and with questions about how much of his a production was tied to Dwight that we got him for undervalue.

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I said the consensus here. I wasn't talking about the media. For the record I think Evans was overpaid which remains to be seen.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Not everybody in those situations gets overpaid. First of all, Jrue extended before he got the All-Star birth. Like Steph Curry, he would have gotten more if he waited the year and hit the market but went for security. I already explained to you why Ryno will never see huge money. And Tyreke was perceived to be regressing after what many deemed a spectacular rookie year, though his last year in Sacto was actually better. Also, Tyreke is seen as unconventional; doesn't have a clear cut position.

Not every guy gets overpaid in that position, but a lot of them certainly do. I don't mind debate with you - and it happens a lot since we rarely agree - but I just ask that you don't exaggerate my points. That is called a straw man fallacy. I never said "every player coming off a rookie deal gets overpaid." Disagree with me, thats fine. Just don't disagree with a radicalized version of me because that makes it easier for you.

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Fair enough.