2024 Offseason Thread

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Your bolded statement is oxymoronic. In addition, you don't get to redefine what a difference maker is to suit your preferred narrative. But I suppose this only needs to make sense to you, and you'll contort whatever logic you need to, for it to do so.

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I'm telling you what I mean when I say something. If you don't like it, that's fine but I'm not ''redefining'' anything - there is no Platonic Ideal of the Difference Maker, a mathematical truth to which we must all abide. It's a subjective term in the first place. I'm telling you what I mean. Agree or disagree with what I mean if you want but stop being such a pedantic troll about it.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm telling you what I mean when I say something. If you don't like it, that's fine but I'm not ''redefining'' anything - there is no Platonic Ideal of the Difference Maker, a mathematical truth to which we must all abide. It's a subjective term in the first place. I'm telling you what I mean. Agree or disagree with what I mean if you want but stop being such a pedantic troll about it.

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When you start throwing terms like "pedantic troll" around I think that ends our exchange.. I sometimes think you're a bit of an idiot with your Ingram commentary, but I have enough respect for you and the board to not insult you outright.

ESPN Sources: Paul George is planning to take free agent meetings with the Los Angeles Clippers, Philadelphia 76ers and Orlando Magic beginning late Sunday night and Monday on the West Coast. pic.twitter.com/8MMStVjTGk

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 29, 2024

Probably going to have to wait until Monday for a conclusion to the BI saga, then. Still think that penny won't drop until PG is off the table.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Exactly my point, it's not that he's a terrible player (because he's not) or that he has no value to anyone (because he does) but what he does on this team is not the best fit and there are other fits who are ready to replace him.

Let's be realistic here. Let's say BI is an 8/10 player. I don't think he is, necessarily, but just use that as the baseline.

Right now, we have no starting C. So our starting C is a 0/10 player. Let's say we're forced to start Missi, so he's maybe a 3/10 player as a rookie.

So together, the two provide us 11/20.

Now let's imagine we trade BI for Jarrett Allen. Let's say that JA is worse than BI, even when accounting for his role. He's not an 8/10 C, he's a 6.5/10.

But then you're not going to 0/10 at the wing by losing BI, you're just moving Trey Murphy in. Even if we agree that Trey is worse than BI and will never be on his level (which again, I don't necessarily agree with, but I'll grant you it for the sake of argument here) he's maybe a 6.5/10 player too. 7/10 if you're being generous.

So what's better for your Wing/C combo?

BI + Missi = 11/20
Trey + JA = 13/20

Clearly, the latter, even though BI remains the best player out of all 4.

And that's me trying to be generous because in reality, I think BI is a 7/10 player and that Trey absolutely has the potential to be better than him (at least in terms of fit on this team), which would blow the margins open even further.

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You can't use that example and in one case trade for a better player and not in the other. Using your own logic, you'd be able to trade Trey Murphy presumably for Jared Allen. After all, Trey may actually have more trade value.

Furthermore, under no circumstance are we going into next season with Missi being our starter. It's just a ridiculous premise. One of Ingram or CJ almost have to go (possibly/preferably both).

Another point- Shamit Dua's recent email talks about creating a massive TPE as a possibility which I don't think anyone is talking about. Theoretically you could trade one of those guys to the 76ers and they could absorb his contract since they have room, in the case of Ingram creating a $36m TPE.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

No where on earth is anyone discussing JA for Ingram lol.. except for here.

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I mean that's just wrong. It's been suggested multiple times on realGM by even non-Pels fans when discussing the Murray trade and where Ingram may land/what we do about our center situation.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

I think Trey can make up for BI's stats if BI is moved. Trey Murphy III averaged 16.3 points, 6.3 rebounds and 2.6 assists in 23 games as a starter this season, but someone will need to give us TM3's production off the bench. Maybe Hawk can be that guy if he gets the minutes.

We are in dire need of a center, so whether its a BI trade or we keep BI and find a center in free agency... we need one desperately.

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I'll ask you this.....you're Portland and the Pels call you up wanting Ayton. What are you wanting to get in return? Get Brandon Ingram; a 26 year old on the last year of his deal or young assets like Trey, Hawkins, and picks?

Cleveland probably wants BI. I could totally see Portland preferring TMIII and picks.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

I'll ask you this.....you're Portland and the Pels call you up wanting Ayton. What are you wanting to get in return? Get Brandon Ingram; a 26 year old on the last year of his deal or young assets like Trey, Hawkins, and picks?

Cleveland probably wants BI. I could totally see Portland preferring TMIII and picks.

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It would be nice if Indiana called us .

I haven't looked at Indiana yet. Who would they want from us? Doing a quick glance over, sending out Turner would leave a giant hole at C, they have Siakam and Toppin at PF, Nesmith and Mathurin at SF and kind of SG.......I don't see why they make a deal.

As a little aside from the general conversation: I love this move for Dyson. If the Hawks end up keeping Trae, that's a beautiful pairing for DD and could really maximize his potential. I'm pulling for that over there.

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Originally Posted by urboyJD

I mean that's just wrong. It's been suggested multiple times on realGM by even non-Pels fans when discussing the Murray trade and where Ingram may land/what we do about our center situation.

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I'm on realgm.. I don't see the thread. Do you have a link? Even still, it's a ridiculous trade to make for obvious reasons. I can assure you, it will never happen. There's also good reason why it will never happen.

Ingram trending at #1 on the trade machines. I wonder if Griff looks at these sites

https://fanspo.com/nba/trade-machine

I like this trade

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/pelicans/tr...season-plan-v2

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Originally Posted by Nichols

I'm on realgm.. I don't see the thread. Do you have a link? Even still, it's a ridiculous trade to make for obvious reasons. I can assure you, it will never happen. There's also good reason why it will never happen.

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Have you looked in the trade subforum? It's mentioned many, many, many times here:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=2

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

I like this trade

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/pelicans/tr...season-plan-v2

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So...with that trade we're in even worse shape with the cap? I don't think so...

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

I like this trade

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/pelicans/tr...season-plan-v2

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You know what's funny about that trade? Ingram and Anfernee have the same baby mother lol.. She's an instagram model. He would actually be a solid pick up.

Not gonna lie. That's pretty sechsy all the way around.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

I'll ask you this.....you're Portland and the Pels call you up wanting Ayton. What are you wanting to get in return? Get Brandon Ingram; a 26 year old on the last year of his deal or young assets like Trey, Hawkins, and picks?

Cleveland probably wants BI. I could totally see Portland preferring TMIII and picks.

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For the record I want to trade BI to open minutes for a Trey and Herb starting wing combo, but if teams are low-balling Griff I can see where would hold onto BI at least until the deadline.

But to your question... I'd take TM3 and fodder, but Griff ain't that crazy. He's the better fit for what we need around Zion, and he'd be cheaper on the books than BI would. And I'd take Ayton. He's not a 3-point shooter but his middy is respectable enough to pull bigs from the paint, and he's a PnR lob threat as well. He's not gonna be a defensive stallworth but we have guys on the perimeter now that can at least slow down the layup line that we were allowing.

I highly doubt we'll get a stretch 5 before the season starts but I'm hoping real hard.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

You know what's funny about that trade? Ingram and Anfernee have the same baby mother lol.. She's an instagram model. He would actually be a solid pick up.

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Well they'll be stuck together in the thirst trap they fell in.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

I'm on realgm.. I don't see the thread. Do you have a link? Even still, it's a ridiculous trade to make for obvious reasons. I can assure you, it will never happen. There's also good reason why it will never happen.

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It's also mentioned multiple times in the Pelicans future center thread, and the original Murray trade thread. I'm not going to screencap it for you, but it's there. Just letting you know that the whole "no where else on earth thing" is completely wrong.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

I like BI, but I just can't understand why he's not willing (or doesn't seem to be willing) to change one aspect of his game and take more 3s. Its not like he's a terrible shooter from out there he's actually a solid shooter from range. I love the fact that BI can get his shots in mid-range but he has to take more threes. Those contested middies are beautiful when they're falling, but when they're not he has to pull when he's open from behind the line.

If not for the Pels... he'll need to make that change in his game for someone else. He's a legit threat from out there he might as well take more of them.

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after the year BI had, and after the comments he made about looking in the mirror...Id be hard-pressed to believe that he isnt working on doing so right now; and will indeed take more three's in the future if on a team where he is called to do so

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Originally Posted by urboyJD

It's also mentioned multiple times in the Pelicans future center thread, and the original Murray trade thread. I'm not going to screencap it for you, but it's there. Just letting you know that the whole "no where else on earth thing" is completely wrong.

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It can be there. What I'm not wrong about is that it's silly/dumb to trade Ingram for JA where he is the centerpiece of the trade. What I also won't be wrong about is it never happening.

With Ingram's last playoff performance he's earned all this criticism, and trade talk. If he's moved It's justifiable. But if you do it, do it in a way that doesn't set your team back.

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Originally Posted by donato

You can't use that example and in one case trade for a better player and not in the other. Using your own logic, you'd be able to trade Trey Murphy presumably for Jared Allen. After all, Trey may actually have more trade value.

Furthermore, under no circumstance are we going into next season with Missi being our starter. It's just a ridiculous premise. One of Ingram or CJ almost have to go (possibly/preferably both).

Another point- Shamit Dua's recent email talks about creating a massive TPE as a possibility which I don't think anyone is talking about. Theoretically you could trade one of those guys to the 76ers and they could absorb his contract since they have room, in the case of Ingram creating a $36m TPE.

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Well of course it's a dodgy example, I'm trying to be as generous as possible to BI in it. If I used the numbers that actually represented what I thought reflected their qualities when accounting for fit, I'd get BI fans yelling at me that he's better than that :hihi:

I agree that we aren't going into next season with Missi. I agree that it's a ridiculous premise. At no point did I say that no further move is going to be made: in fact, the entire point of that post is to point out how, even if BI in isolation is a better player, trading for a big so that we do not start Missi is a no-brainer. So, congrats, we're on the same page. Not sure why the animosity for that.

I read Shamit's post, and frankly it feels to me like the kind of 'too cute, trying to be clever' cap move that almost never works out for teams. ''Oh we could get a $36m TPE, and then at the deadline we could trade CJ and only have to take back partial salary so we get a move and then we still have a $33m TPE, and then later we can do the same thing for something good and get a $25m TPE, and keep kicking the can down the road'' - no. The much more likely thing to happen is that we get a $36m TPE and then, a year later when we can't get anything even close to even value for CJ without having to attach picks, the TPE expires and we got almost nothing back for BI.

I would much, much prefer to get an actual asset for BI than a giant TPE. I'm not against a TPE if it comes with an asset, and hopefully we can use it later, but a trade where the entire return is just a giant TPE is a no-go to me.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Well they'll be stuck together in the thirst trap they fell in.

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Yeah that's what it looks like. Young millionaires faced with a great deal of temptation, I can't be too critical, women will always be difficult to resist. That's a whole other conversation though.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

It can be there. What I'm not wrong about is that it's silly/dumb to trade Ingram for JA where he is the centerpiece of the trade. What I also won't be wrong about is it never happening.

With Ingram's last playoff performance he's earned all this criticism, and trade talk. If he's moved It's justifiable. But if you do it, do it in a way that doesn't set your team back.

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I don't think you get it. Objectively the fit on this current roster is bad, and him being due for an extension drags down his value. It's not like the Pels have the greatest leverage regardless of how nice of a player he is.

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Originally Posted by urboyJD

I don't think you get it. Objectively the fit on this current roster is bad, and him being due for an extension drags down his value a little. It's not like the Pels have the greatest leverage regardless of how nice of a player he is.

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Me not agreeing with you doesn't mean I don't get it. This should be pretty simple to understand. Ingram for JA is silly. The "fit" argument doesn't change that. We can agree to disagree. Respectfully. And again, it won't happen.

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

after the year BI had, and after the comments he made about looking in the mirror...Id be hard-pressed to believe that he isnt working on doing so right now; and will indeed take more three's in the future if on a team where he is called to do so

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Gotta see it. They ditched an entire offensive system because he refused to do so this season. I hope he does, because like I said... he's a threat from out there.