2024 Offseason Thread

We will see honestly I hope he goes so we can see how great Trey is going to be and if Zion can be responsible enough to be the man and if Brandon really is the sole issue of this team

Zion has the potential to be great he has nice numbers to be great you have to do it consistently I’ve only see him sit out consistently and score consistently defense effort sub par now call me a liar ???

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

That’s cool bro and on the Zion at 30 percent
Herb jones who’s not the star of this team was at about 33 percent his first two years and now he’s at 41 or 42
So why can’t out max player develop that part of his game does that not make him and the team better ?

Luka doncic shot 31 32 his first two years and 34 the year before last 38 last year does that not make them better
Y’all bring up everybody shooting 3s except Z
Embiid shoots em jokic shoots them
But Zion can’t or he’s unwilling ?

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I will repeat myself for the last time.

Zion creates the most valuable shots in basketball. Nobody wants him to stop taking the most valuable shots in basketball so he can take worse shots. That is why people are fine with Zion not taking threes. Yes, it would be nice if he would occasionally take one when he's wide open, but it's not high priority.

BI takes some of the least valuable shots in basketball. People want him to stop taking the least valuable shots in basketball and take the good shots that he has already shown he can take and make, because he's done it before. The fact that he won't do this is high priority because it's part of what sinks his value as an offensive player next to Zion. He is ignoring the coaches and just doing his own thing. That is bad.

I am not sure how much clearer that can possibly be explained.

And even Giannis shoots 3s to keep the defense honest
Also as much as z goes to the paint how often is he getting the calls lol he just getting beat and wore down

I never said he needs to fall in love with the 3 but maybe sometimes he shouldn’t bullrush and spin into 4 defenders and take what’s being given and you don’t have to explain anything that I didn’t ask you , we can just drop it though because I feel as though this is teetering on the line of disrespecting each other and not just debating and disagreeing

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

And even Giannis shoots 3s to keep the defense honest
Also as much as z goes to the paint how often is he getting the calls lol he just getting beat and wore down

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Giannis attempting 3 per game doesn't keep defenses honest. They still don't respect it and will gladly let him shoot on every single possession.

Ingram and Kuz were both averaging over 20PPG While playing next to Bron. Allow that to sink in. He can play off ball, he can facilitate, he can do just about anything he's directed to do. He played point, shooting guard, and SF with the Lakers. Took him a while to acclimate but he did and functioned well in all roles given.

Under the right scheme and coach, Ingram and Zion pair just fine. Let's also not forget he set a few records in his first playoff series. The same series that pushed a championship squad. That same series that actually got Zion excited about returning and helping this team. That was done on Ingram's back primarily.

Ingram has clearly demonstrated that he's not a #1 guy. He can definitely be a #2. That said he has to adjust how he plays ball. His decisions need to be more decisive, he takes too long on occasion when making reads. In addition a better offensive scheme would eliminate the frequency in which we see him and Zion with 5 seconds left after a play is broken trying to bail the team out with a highly contested shot.

Some who are down on Ingram have legitimate reasons considering his style of play. Some never liked him, so even if he is playing optimally, he will simply be tolerated. And that's fine I guess.

They give Zion way more room then giannis but atp whatever man we all have our minds made up we will just have to see what the office does and by midseason I’m sure we will be able to tell who were right and who was wrong

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Under the right scheme and coach, Ingram and Zion pair just fine. Let's also not forget he set a few records in his first playoff series. The same series that pushed a championship squad. That same series that actually got Zion excited about returning and helping this team. That was done on Ingram's back primarily.

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The weird lionisation of the Phoenix series for BI has always really confused me.

He had two excellent games and then 4 games where he was extremely mid, but I see people constantly talking about ''that Phoenix series'' as if he did a 2008 Lebron carry job.

Games 2 and 3, I think it was, he was awesome. We won one of those games, lost the other. Great effort from him, but I just don't get why people talk about it as proof that he's this awesome playoff guy who rises to the challenge.

He averaged 23/4.7/6.3 with 0.75 stls/blks combined per game on 42/27/76 splits in the other 4 games of that series. It wasn't that amazing.

How much did the great z have in his 5 years ? Just ignore me I’m trolling now lol

Cody Zeller is being signed-and-traded to the Atlanta Hawks from the New Orleans Pelicans, as part of the Dejounte Murray trade, a league source told @spotrac.

— Keith Smith (@KeithSmithNBA) July 6, 2024

Lmao we can't even keep Zeller.

NO bigs. None. Forbidden.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The weird lionisation of the Phoenix series for BI has always really confused me.

He had two excellent games and then 4 games where he was extremely mid, but I see people constantly talking about ''that Phoenix series'' as if he did a 2008 Lebron carry job.

Games 2 and 3, I think it was, he was awesome. We won one of those games, lost the other. Great effort from him, but I just don't get why people talk about it as proof that he's this awesome playoff guy who rises to the challenge.

He averaged 23/4.7/6.3 with 0.75 stls/blks combined per game on 42/27/76 splits in the other 4 games of that series. It wasn't that amazing.

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Don't intentionally add more to what I said, then build a counter narrative around an intentional misinterpretation. It's not an honest way to dialogue. Did I say anything about an all-time great performance? Did I say anything about him being Lebron like? It's in these moments when exchanges with you can be challenging. I didn't convey anything you just argued against.

He demonstrated that he can perform well in the playoffs. That's all my statement meant regarding that series.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Cody Zeller is being signed-and-traded to the Atlanta Hawks from the New Orleans Pelicans, as part of the Dejounte Murray trade, a league source told @spotrac.

— Keith Smith (@KeithSmithNBA) July 6, 2024

Lmao we can't even keep Zeller.

NO bigs. None. Forbidden.

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I think it just means they have something else brewing. I wouldn't worry about it. The front office isn't that inept to allow the team to go into next season without bigs.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Don't intentionally add more to what I said, then build a counter narrative around an intentional misinterpretation. It's not an honest way to dialogue. Did I say anything about an all-time great performance? Did I say anything about him being Lebron like? It's in these moments when exchanges with you can be challenging. I didn't convey anything you just argued against.

He demonstrated that he can perform well in the playoffs. That's all my statement meant regarding that series.

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Nah I wasn't accusing you of it, I was more bouncing off it. You said that he set records, was part of a team that pushed a championship squad, and that ''that was done on Ingram's back'', which made me think of how people talk about that Phoenix series. Not intended as a shot at you, you're just what prompted me to think of it.

What that series showed to me was that Ingram is capable of having good games in the playoffs, but not capable of just dominating a playoff series unless everything goes right for him. Very much a #2, as you said (or even a #3 on a sufficiently elite team), not a #1.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

I think it just means they have something else brewing. I wouldn't worry about it. The front office isn't that inept to allow the team to go into next season without bigs.

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Yeah I'm not actually losing my mind about Zeller, I just think it's funny that since the Murray trade being announced the Pels have been extremely quiet, our biggest need is clearly at C, and when some extra news finally comes out it's to say we lost another C.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah I'm not actually losing my mind about Zeller, I just think it's funny that since the Murray trade being announced the Pels have been extremely quiet, our biggest need is clearly at C, and when some extra news finally comes out it's to say we lost another C.

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I'll be honest.. I try to project calm and patience, but it is starting to get to me a bit seeing teams make moves and us not. Rationally I understand why, but it is starting to touch just a bit of a nerve lol. I know it doesn't matter here but It's a cumulative effect since the same thing is happening with the Lakers. I think guys like Bron off court, but aren't excited about playing with him. Guys are turning down more money to play in places other than LA.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Nah I wasn't accusing you of it, I was more bouncing off it. You said that he set records, was part of a team that pushed a championship squad, and that ''that was done on Ingram's back'', which made me think of how people talk about that Phoenix series. Not intended as a shot at you, you're just what prompted me to think of it.

What that series showed to me was that Ingram is capable of having good games in the playoffs, but not capable of just dominating a playoff series unless everything goes right for him. Very much a #2, as you said (or even a #3 on a sufficiently elite team), not a #1.

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Agreed..

.@DejounteMurray is a Pelican �� pic.twitter.com/YFmaj4YEB1

— New Orleans Pelicans (@PelicansNBA) July 6, 2024

Dejounte Murray trade official, he is a Pelican.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

The problem is that BI has never fit nicely behind Zion and that has limited Zion who clearly should be the primary option on this team. I just don?t see how you can continue to justify paying BI a ridiculous contract to do something he has never done and continuing this injury prone inconsistent offense the Pelicans continue to have. BI apparently has a far larger ego than people realize.

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You guys say this but it continues to not be true. There's a reason all of the "BI and Zion didn't fit" posts are devoid of stats......because it's fiction. Zion had a beast of a season. Ingram had a decent season. Together they posted great numbers. Together with CJ they were just above average. We can speculate on why the equation didn't work with CJ but the Pelicans obviously felt like Murray is the answer to that.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

You guys say this but it continues to not be true. There's a reason all of the "BI and Zion didn't fit" posts are devoid of stats......because it's fiction. Zion had a beast of a season. Ingram had a decent season. Together they posted great numbers. Together with CJ they were just above average. We can speculate on why the equation didn't work with CJ but the Pelicans obviously felt like Murray is the answer to that.

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Did you post any actual stats in your criticism of people not posting actual stats to back up an opinion?

Bucks are asking for a first round pick for Brook Lopez.. He'd actually be pretty good with Zion.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I've said it a million times, I still believe it. This is what is the most likely outcome, to me:

- BI is going to re-sign for a number that functionally breaks the team because Griff cannot bear to let him go ($50m a year area)
- With no money and no options, we sign some centre off the trash heap to take up space - maybe it's Zeller, Theis, whoever
- We start next year with Trey glued to the bench, and because BI's still here and CJ won't go to the bench, Herb will too
- Starting lineup of DJM/CJ/BI/Zion/Whoever will be hot garbage but Willie will refuse to ever change it
- We will nevertheless win 45-ish games purely on talent level plus a great bench because Herb and Trey will carry it
- People will use that as ''proof'' that BI getting that money was the right choice
- Team gets smashed in the playoffs because the fit is garbage
- Team slowly falls apart over the next few years as the BI contract forces us to sell guys off to avoid paying them, or not retain them in FA (like Naji and Jonas) due to price
- Zion requests trade in year 7 or 8 due to failure to ever get out of the first round

Could something else happen? Sure. I hope so. Maybe BI suddenly gets his head screwed on straight and starts gunning from 3. Maybe Griff someone gets BI to take $37m a year. Maybe CJ volunteers to go to the bench so Trey can start. Maybe maybe maybe. Doubt all of it.

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I think you're going to be ok. I think the one thing the Pels won't (aside from the absolute absurd, almost troll level idea that they just let BI walk for nothing next season) is sign him to a huge contract. It's either "accept your role as the #2 who has to prove it or you get traded".

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Originally Posted by new city champ

A potential problem though is if BI comes back with a chip on his shoulder determined to prove all the doubters wrong about his ability to be an alpha dog. That could turn into a real headache. It's a lot. He'd have to fundamentally change his game and mindset. He'd have to take less money than he think's he's worth. He'd have to demonstrate he could thrive as a player in that role, something that he failed epically to do on team USA. If I was laying odds, I'd say he'd opt to be the number 1 on a bad team, convinced they could build around him into a winner...

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Agree.

Except when I play it out in my head I think it's highly more likely than accepting the lesser contract is the beginning of acceptance to the role.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Bucks are asking for a first round pick for Brook Lopez.. He'd actually be pretty good with Zion.

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He would be worth a couple 2nds if we had them. Kinda old to trade for a 1st. The Lopez brothers should be on retirement watch.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

Did you post any actual stats in your criticism of people not posting actual stats to back up an opinion?

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BI, Zion, and CJ had a net rating of +3 when on the court together. BI and Zion had a +13.4, BI and CJ had a +13.2, Zion and CJ was just +5.4.

BI and Zion worked. BI and CJ worked. It was CJ and Zion and all three together that didn't work.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

He would be worth a couple 2nds if we had them. Kinda old to trade for a 1st. The Lopez brothers should be on retirement watch.

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Can't argue with that. I think Brook has a few more years to give though.

Let’s agree to this. Griffin’s handling of BI this offseason will determine his legacy as the president of basketball operations for the Pelicans. Also, let’s agree that the decision is pretty much between paying BI or Trey Murphy. Both will not be able to extend with the Pels due to the amount being paid to each and both playing the same position. I am taking TMII at $25m a year over BI at $50m a year 100 percent.

You guys are crackin me up lmao

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

Let’s agree to this. Griffin’s handling of BI this offseason will determine his legacy as the president of basketball operations for the Pelicans.

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No.. His legacy entails the entirety of his stent with the Pels. Not one decision with one player.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

I think you're going to be ok. I think the one thing the Pels won't (aside from the absolute absurd, almost troll level idea that they just let BI walk for nothing next season) is sign him to a huge contract. It's either "accept your role as the #2 who has to prove it or you get traded".

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To which BI's response is ''to where? You spent all last summer trying to move me and nobody was buying. You're stuck with me, so pay up and watch me ball.''

HERB JONES A REAL ONE!!!!!!

— Dejounte Murray (@DejounteMurray) July 6, 2024

Sounds like Herb's letting Dejounte keep the number.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Can't argue with that. I think Brook has a few more years to give though.

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He's 36 and already shown to be declining. Hard pass on giving up a first.

Well yea.. obviously he's not worth a first. But he can still add value to a squad with a limited role.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

No.. His legacy entails the entirety of his stent with the Pels. Not one decision with one player.

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Paying BI cap locks this team. There will be minimal room for movement if BI, Zion, and Murray are all getting paid. Extending BI says this is the team we think has the best chance to win.

Y’all gone ignore them stats huh lol, cj won’t be on the books for long don’t we pay him almost 40 Ms

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

Paying BI cap locks this team. There will be minimal room for movement if BI, Zion, and Murray are all getting paid. Extending BI says this is the team we think has the best chance to win.

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I don't think that's what it means. The league is making it difficult now for teams to acquire 3 stars, it will become increasingly more difficult to get one. So if you have a number 2 or 3, or a 1, it's best to make an effort to keep them. Or not move them for a combination of role players.

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

Y’all gone ignore them stats huh lol, cj won’t be on the books for long don’t we pay him almost 40 Ms

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How many games (sample size) do those stats come from? Like 20 games? So you want to role with that as the basis to pay BI 50+ million a year and hard cap the team? Did you watch the OKC series? Please post BI’s stats from that.

Lol. "Like 20 games". Yes. The way to counter stats when you can't find your own stats to support your stance is to just arbitrarily makeup a flaw with the other stats.

They played together most of the season.

And no one has advocated maxing out Ingram. Bruh. This making up stuff no one said is old. If the Pels were going to give BI that much he would have been resigned as soon as this all starred.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

To which BI's response is ''to where? You spent all last summer trying to move me and nobody was buying. You're stuck with me, so pay up and watch me ball.''

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Maybe. But I think it's not that we can't trade him it's that's we're holding to see where his mind is because what the Pels really want is for him to buy in as the sidekick.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

Paying BI cap locks this team. There will be minimal room for movement if BI, Zion, and Murray are all getting paid. Extending BI says this is the team we think has the best chance to win.

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Yes. Despite fanbase pessimism. This is a great team that was sitting third in the West and playing great basketball before injuries had them slide where they finished one game behind the Mavs.

So you want to not pay him off of 4 games while he knowingly was playing injured
you see how crazy that is honestly sounds
Just like people bringing up phoenix
Just on the other end of the spectrum

Most people get caught up in the moment and that’s okay it’s recency bias though
Imagine the praises he got when we played phoenix and
And Zion was doing 720 windmills in pregame just to say he’s too hurt to play lol


Can we just see how it all play out

I can confirm that New Orleans Pelicans young star Herb Jones has given up his jersey #5 to new guard Dejounte Murray.

Murray has worn #5 his entire career: Rainier Beach High School, University of Washington, Spurs and Hawks.

Herb Jones will now be jersey #2 in NOLA. pic.twitter.com/7OpK2r7joe

— Fletcher Mackel (@FletcherWDSU) July 7, 2024

ESPN Sources with @TimBontemps: The Sacramento Kings are agreed on a sign-and-trade that will land DeMar DeRozan on a three-year deal, send Harrison Barnes to the San Antonio Spurs and Chris Duarte, two second-round picks and cash to the Chicago Bulls. pic.twitter.com/eopPkSPBvc

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) July 7, 2024

DeMar is a King. Which, I think, removes the Kings from the Lauri/BI sweepstakes, insofar as they were ever a real part of them. They give up Harrison Barnes for him.

DeMar's a good player but I don't really see the fit for SAC. Might be a bit disruptive.

The amount of cope in this thread, imagining that Ingram will change his ways, even if he is extended at a price lower than the max, is actually hilarious.

Some of y'all haven't been paying attention. There have been numerous reports about his unwillingness to change his playstyle. You think signing him to $40 mil instead of $50 mil is going to suddenly make him a different basketball player?

It'll be a mistake, even at a lower cost. I love Brandon as a player, he eats/sleeps/breaths basketball, he's embraced this team.. but his style of hooping isn't conducive to winning basketball. It's just not. Especially not with this roster construction.

3yr/$74m according to Woj

3rd year partially guaranteed and there are bonuses for being an all-star (per Haynes)

If BI stays on this team either Herb Jones has to come off the bench or Brandon Ingram has to embrace being a 6th man. Neither of those things really make sense but I think I would pick the latter option.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

If BI stays on this team either Herb Jones has to come off the bench or Brandon Ingram has to embrace being a 6th man. Neither of those things really make sense but I think I would pick the latter option.

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Ingram is no 6th man lol.. You guys really need to be serious. Why would either have to come off the bench?

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

Yet another example of the media having no idea what's actually going on with the team. They play everything so close to the vest it's mind boggling.

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That was pretty much assumed as the Wizards wanted to use an expiring TPE and maintain their MLE.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Ingram is no 6th man lol.. You guys really need to be serious. Why would either have to come off the bench?

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Because there are only 5 players on the floor at the same time? Murray and CJ are locked in as the starting guard tandem. So either Zion plays center or one of BI/Herb is going to the bench.

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

And even Giannis shoots 3s to keep the defense honest
Also as much as z goes to the paint how often is he getting the calls lol he just getting beat and wore down

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Does it really keep the defense honest? Most teams back off and let him shoot it as they want him to take the 3. He is a career 28% 3pt shooter.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

I think it just means they have something else brewing. I wouldn't worry about it. The front office isn't that inept to allow the team to go into next season without bigs.

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Not really. They just needed to match salary in the Atlanta deal.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Bucks are asking for a first round pick for Brook Lopez.. He'd actually be pretty good with Zion.

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At his age and salary, it would have to be a pretty heavily protected 1st. However, matching salary my be tough.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Because there are only 5 players on the floor at the same time? Murray and CJ are locked in as the starting guard tandem. So either Zion plays center or one of BI/Herb is going to the bench.

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And why would CJ be locked in as a starter? Your issue is with CJ starting, not Ingram. You seriously can't think Ingram should be a 6th man under any circumstances. I get that a lot of you have issues with BI, but lets all try to be more objective.