Draft Prospects Discussion

If we trade our pick for Dario Scaric or Super Mario I'm leaving PR for good.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

If we trade our pick for Dario Scaric or Super Mario I'm leaving PR for good.

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Is this actually a rumor?

I want Buddy Heild.

that is all.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Is this actually a rumor?

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No just creating more negativity when there isn't any.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

No just looking towards some more negativity.

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What's your take on Ingram athleticism? Does he kill it at the Combine?

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Is this actually a rumor?

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No, but it's a possibility with Demps and his "young vets" philosophy and his obsession with Sacric and international players. Also Mario is 6" 7 and a facilitator and athletic which Gentry wants.

I'm interested in how folks feel about three specific draft targets.

Jamal Murray
Buddy Hield
Kris Dunn

Let's assume all three are available and a viable trade (either back in the draft or for a "young veteran") is unavailable. Who should the Pelicans pick and why? Or, taking a different track, which prospect would you eliminate from the discussion?

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Originally Posted by David Fisher

I'm interested in how folks feel about three specific draft targets.

Jamal Murray
Buddy Hield
Kris Dunn

Let's assume all three are available and a viable trade (either back in the draft or for a "young veteran") is unavailable. Who should the Pelicans pick and why? Or, taking a different track, which prospect would you eliminate from the discussion?

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Dunn
Heild
Murray

Murray might have more upside, but I like Dunn's defense and his leadership. Somebody said he has a bit of Russ Westbrook in him, and I can see that.

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Originally Posted by David Fisher

I'm interested in how folks feel about three specific draft targets.

Jamal Murray
Buddy Hield
Kris Dunn

Let's assume all three are available and a viable trade (either back in the draft or for a "young veteran") is unavailable. Who should the Pelicans pick and why? Or, taking a different track, which prospect would you eliminate from the discussion?

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I think you've got that order right. I don't know if Murray will come in and immediately have the impact that Hield would, but being 3 years younger I would take him and let him grow with AD. I think he has a much more balanced game than Hield as well, even at his age.

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Originally Posted by wnelson

I want Buddy Heild.

that is all.

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Is he number one on your board?

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Dunn
Heild
Murray

Murray might have more upside, but I like Dunn's defense and his leadership. Somebody said he has a bit of Russ Westbrook in him, and I can see that.

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He would so greatly benefit from the wider 3pt line and playing with AD.

I'll give some brief thoughts on all three prospects and why I order them the way I do. Important information can be found at this link.

http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2016/3/...ld-murray-dunn

#1 - Jamal Murray - Highest possible upside. Murray at age 19 runs laps around Dunn and Hield. Laps. He's a negative on defense, but competent teams have built reasonable defense with a weak link on the perimeter. Portland was 10th in DRtg last season with Damian Lillard leading the team in minutes. Murray has some explosion, finishes better at the rim than the other two, as is absolutely deadly behind the arc. Hield, right now, is the better shooter but the difference in age matters in my opinion.

#2 - Buddy Hield - Shooting and fit matter. Hield, like Murray, has demonstrated the ability to work without the ball in his hands. I have yet to see a lot of Kris Dunn functioning as an off guard. Hield has demonstrated the capacity to improve and is lauded by scouts on his work ethic.

Kris Dunn - I do not want the Pelicans to draft Kris Dunn. His jump shot is unproven. He's struggled at the foul line. Even at an advanced age (22) he struggled with turnovers (1.77 Assist-to-Turnover in his last two years) which raises concerns of IQ. Yes, he has amazing defensive numbers and physical tools. Yes, he has leadership and swagger that this franchise is lacking. I'd rather get skill with the pick and find swagger elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by David Fisher

I'll give some brief thoughts on all three prospects and why I order them the way I do. Important information can be found at this link.

http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2016/3/...ld-murray-dunn

#1 - Jamal Murray - Highest possible upside. Murray at age 19 runs laps around Dunn and Hield. Laps. He's a negative on defense, but competent teams have built reasonable defense with a weak link on the perimeter. Portland was 10th in DRtg last season with Damian Lillard leading the team in minutes. Murray has some explosion, finishes better at the rim than the other two, as is absolutely deadly behind the arc. Hield, right now, is the better shooter but the difference in age matters in my opinion.

#2 - Buddy Hield - Shooting and fit matter. Hield, like Murray, has demonstrated the ability to work without the ball in his hands. I have yet to see a lot of Kris Dunn functioning as an off guard. Hield has demonstrated the capacity to improve and is lauded by scouts on his work ethic.

Kris Dunn - I do not want the Pelicans to draft Kris Dunn. His jump shot is unproven. He's struggled at the foul line. Even at an advanced age (22) he struggled with turnovers (1.77 Assist-to-Turnover in his last two years) which raises concerns of IQ. Yes, he has amazing defensive numbers and physical tools. Yes, he has leadership and swagger that this franchise is lacking. I'd rather get skill with the pick and find swagger elsewhere.

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I won't complain should we land any one of the three quit honestly. The one thing I will mention is this, Dunn turns the ball over at a crazy rate, but since they started keeping track of turnovers back in 07-08, look who else has led the NCAA in turnovers,
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/...er-season.html

For the TL;DR crowd Dunn had 138 in 2014/2015, also in the 121+ crowd are Steph Curry, Elfrid Payton, Jimmer, Reke, Evan Turner, MCW, Greveis, John Wall, and Kevin Galloway.There are some meh players in that group, but there are also a few who I would gladly take in a hot second. I think him not having the ball in his hands as much will ultimately help him, especially with a guy like Jrue here.

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Originally Posted by David Fisher

I'll give some brief thoughts on all three prospects and why I order them the way I do. Important information can be found at this link.

http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2016/3/...ld-murray-dunn

#1 - Jamal Murray - Highest possible upside. Murray at age 19 runs laps around Dunn and Hield. Laps. He's a negative on defense, but competent teams have built reasonable defense with a weak link on the perimeter. Portland was 10th in DRtg last season with Damian Lillard leading the team in minutes. Murray has some explosion, finishes better at the rim than the other two, as is absolutely deadly behind the arc. Hield, right now, is the better shooter but the difference in age matters in my opinion.

#2 - Buddy Hield - Shooting and fit matter. Hield, like Murray, has demonstrated the ability to work without the ball in his hands. I have yet to see a lot of Kris Dunn functioning as an off guard. Hield has demonstrated the capacity to improve and is lauded by scouts on his work ethic.

Kris Dunn - I do not want the Pelicans to draft Kris Dunn. His jump shot is unproven. He's struggled at the foul line. Even at an advanced age (22) he struggled with turnovers (1.77 Assist-to-Turnover in his last two years) which raises concerns of IQ. Yes, he has amazing defensive numbers and physical tools. Yes, he has leadership and swagger that this franchise is lacking. I'd rather get skill with the pick and find swagger elsewhere.

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Very interested to hear your thoughts about Brown.

I know you touched on him here: http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2016/3/...s-ingram-brown

But would like to know how you think he fits with the Pel's.

Especially if we pick at 6 or 7 and Simmons, Ingram, Murray, Heild, Bender and Dunn are off the board

Thanks

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Originally Posted by David Fisher

I'll give some brief thoughts on all three prospects and why I order them the way I do. Important information can be found at this link.

http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2016/3/...ld-murray-dunn

#1 - Jamal Murray - Highest possible upside. Murray at age 19 runs laps around Dunn and Hield. Laps. He's a negative on defense, but competent teams have built reasonable defense with a weak link on the perimeter. Portland was 10th in DRtg last season with Damian Lillard leading the team in minutes. Murray has some explosion, finishes better at the rim than the other two, as is absolutely deadly behind the arc. Hield, right now, is the better shooter but the difference in age matters in my opinion.

#2 - Buddy Hield - Shooting and fit matter. Hield, like Murray, has demonstrated the ability to work without the ball in his hands. I have yet to see a lot of Kris Dunn functioning as an off guard. Hield has demonstrated the capacity to improve and is lauded by scouts on his work ethic.

Kris Dunn - I do not want the Pelicans to draft Kris Dunn. His jump shot is unproven. He's struggled at the foul line. Even at an advanced age (22) he struggled with turnovers (1.77 Assist-to-Turnover in his last two years) which raises concerns of IQ. Yes, he has amazing defensive numbers and physical tools. Yes, he has leadership and swagger that this franchise is lacking. I'd rather get skill with the pick and find swagger elsewhere.

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My issue(not really issue as a I like the guy a lot) with Murray remains he actually has a smaller wingspan then Hield or Dunn, the defense, as already mentioned, coupled with a similar athletic profile but a seemingly smaller frame, so that while he has come on earlier, I don't really see a ceiling much higher then the more proven Hield.

Murray got to the rim more efficiently(by 1% roughly) but he did it less frequently and Hield is better at drawing fouls and getting to the line. Though one is a senior vs a rookie. So I get that.

The argument for Murray seems to be potential stemming from age. But if the guy has a similar physical profile as Hield, and at best a similar work ethic(Hield is noted for his incredible work ethic), I continue to struggle seeing a scenario where Murray becomes this much greater pro over say a 5 year span?

If Murray had shown more capacity as a facilitator in his time I would probably shift my feelings a lot but he kinda struggled in that regard and it is unclear if he has that in him.

I mostly agree about Dunn. He worries me. Mostly with the injuries. I actually think with Gentry and our shooting coaches I would give him a fighting chance to improve both his facilitation and jump shot.

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Originally Posted by David Fisher

I'm interested in how folks feel about three specific draft targets.

Jamal Murray
Buddy Hield
Kris Dunn

Let's assume all three are available and a viable trade (either back in the draft or for a "young veteran") is unavailable. Who should the Pelicans pick and why? Or, taking a different track, which prospect would you eliminate from the discussion?

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I favor this order as well.... let Murray develop the comfort of moving to his right when attacking the basket and I would have no doubt about him being the choice....

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Originally Posted by wnelson

I want Buddy Heild.

that is all.

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You don't say much my friend, but when you do it's to the point, and I salute you for it.

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Originally Posted by David Fisher

I'm interested in how folks feel about three specific draft targets.

Jamal Murray
Buddy Hield
Kris Dunn

Let's assume all three are available and a viable trade (either back in the draft or for a "young veteran") is unavailable. Who should the Pelicans pick and why? Or, taking a different track, which prospect would you eliminate from the discussion?

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Buddy heild all the way. Guy's just a fearless shooter and I think he'll fit great with Jrue and AD.

Heild will be similiar to a McCollum/Reddick player which I would gladly take on this team. I think he can come in and be an instant impact while being a 17-22 ppg scorer in a few years.

Playmakers that have the ball a lot turn the ball over. Not turning it over is the stuff of facilitators. Dunn isn't that. His turnovers don't scare me at all. Most of them can be chaulked up to trying to do too much. Tyreke Evans defines the poor, frankly dumb, turnover. And he certainly doesn't have tunnel vision.

I'm really interested in where his game goes when he's away from the NCAA mandated practice time and classes. Of course, the same goes for Hield and Murray.

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Originally Posted by David Fisher

I'll give some brief thoughts on all three prospects and why I order them the way I do. Important information can be found at this link.

http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2016/3/...ld-murray-dunn

#1 - Jamal Murray - Highest possible upside. Murray at age 19 runs laps around Dunn and Hield. Laps. He's a negative on defense, but competent teams have built reasonable defense with a weak link on the perimeter. Portland was 10th in DRtg last season with Damian Lillard leading the team in minutes. Murray has some explosion, finishes better at the rim than the other two, as is absolutely deadly behind the arc. Hield, right now, is the better shooter but the difference in age matters in my opinion.

#2 - Buddy Hield - Shooting and fit matter. Hield, like Murray, has demonstrated the ability to work without the ball in his hands. I have yet to see a lot of Kris Dunn functioning as an off guard. Hield has demonstrated the capacity to improve and is lauded by scouts on his work ethic.

Kris Dunn - I do not want the Pelicans to draft Kris Dunn. His jump shot is unproven. He's struggled at the foul line. Even at an advanced age (22) he struggled with turnovers (1.77 Assist-to-Turnover in his last two years) which raises concerns of IQ. Yes, he has amazing defensive numbers and physical tools. Yes, he has leadership and swagger that this franchise is lacking. I'd rather get skill with the pick and find swagger elsewhere.

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I agree. Murray's transition to the college game, freakin Canada to Kentucky, screams upside and is an indicator of the trajectory he is on. His confidence is paramount for a 3 point shooter.
IMO He is exactly what I'd want if I had to compete with the Warriors

Heild is stiff compared to Murray

This draft is gonna be weak.

Man Hield can be so good. I was going through some of his games and he was incredible. I think his skill set no doubt translates and is a huge impact on today's game. He would benefit so much playing with Jrue and AD along with a good 2 way SF if we can find one. Hield is a much better athlete then he gets credit for and can also be a much better defender then what some say. Hield would be a great fit here and perfect for Gentrys system. Can be everything we hoped Gordon was going to be offensively while having an even better 3 point shot. He reminds me a lot of quite a few players and all are good ones. Jrue/Hield could be as good as Lillard/CJ if not better.

Say we draft Dunn. Would you trade Jrue and a future protected 1st for Lavine, Shabazz, and Dieg? I think I would have to do it. I love Lavines game and having a young back court with Dunn/Lavine would be pretty damn exciting. Then Shabazz could be a very good wing for us while we continue to search for our SF in either this or next FA. Would save a lot of $ against the cap as well. Jrue could be exactly what the TWolves need while using this years 1st to fill in at SG and using Rubio as a trade chip to upgrade the team as well.

my draft board is:
Ingram
Simmons
Bender
Murray
Hield
Brown
Dunn

I will be fine with all of them, and will love Murray or Hield (from our range).

As to trade mentioned above - don't see why Minny will do it. Lavine is a guy who they love. Only way to get him is to offer Jrue plus 1-2 pick of 2016. Which I will never do...

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Originally Posted by pawel

my draft board is:
Ingram
Simmons
Bender
Murray
Hield
Brown
Dunn

I will be fine with all of them, and will love Murray or Hield (from our range).

As to trade mentioned above - don't see why Minny will do it. Lavine is a guy who they love. Only way to get him is to offer Jrue plus 1-2 pick of 2016. Which I will never do...

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youre one of those idiots that pick ingram over simmons lol

Someone is going to have to explain to me the appeal of Murray.

An undersized, under-athletic, combo guard who can't create his own shot or play defense.

Sure he finishes around the basket well, but do people really expect him to get there at the next level? His 3 point shot is good, but he hasn't proved to be much more than a catch and shoot guy.

I'm interested to know if any of Murray's fans were Austin Rivers fans.

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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

youre one of those idiots that pick ingram over simmons lol

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exactly I am one of those idiots

As I mentioned in other place - it was close one of 51 to 49

Other idiots are f.e. Michael McNamara. Idiots from CBS Sports, Draft Express, SI,

Soon You will read one million different debates about it...

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

Someone is going to have to explain to me the appeal of Murray.

An undersized, under-athletic, combo guard who can't create his own shot or play defense.

Sure he finishes around the basket well, but do people really expect him to get there at the next level? His 3 point shot is good, but he hasn't proved to be much more than a catch and shoot guy.

I'm interested to know if any of Murray's fans were Austin Rivers fans.

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Not to be a butt, but the fact that you say he can't create his own shot kind of shows you aren't very knowledgable about him and didn't watch him very often.

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Originally Posted by pawel

Jaylen Brown declared for the draft.
Yes!

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https://joshblakesley.files.wordpres...hoo.jpeg?w=540

Not a big fan of taking Brown, so glad someone may take him before we pick.

My big board update:

Simmons
Ingram
Hield
Murray
Dunn
Bender
Luwawu
Furkan
Valentine

Brown at 10?

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

Someone is going to have to explain to me the appeal of Murray.

An undersized, under-athletic, combo guard who can't create his own shot or play defense.

Sure he finishes around the basket well, but do people really expect him to get there at the next level? His 3 point shot is good, but he hasn't proved to be much more than a catch and shoot guy.

I'm interested to know if any of Murray's fans were Austin Rivers fans.

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Rivers was not much of a creator offensively, a bit for himself but that's it.

Murray plays smart basketball. I've seen some plays where he would intentionally draw the defense away from someone off the dribble just to make the pass to a teammate. Also I've seen him have a pretty good look under the rim and still make the extra pass to a teammate for a 3. He plays very unselfish ball and will fit perfectly in a system which relies on heavy ball movement.

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Originally Posted by pawel

Brown at 10?

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I don't even know if I'd put him above a Poeltl.

Looking at his scouting videos gives me Al Farouq Aminu nightmares.
Looks like he can get to the basket at will, but NBA athletes will make that much more difficult.
If his shot doesn't come along, the comparisons to AFA are there.

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Originally Posted by pawel

exactly I am one of those idiots

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He's also the idiot that doesn't think AD is any good.

EDIT: doesn't matter

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Originally Posted by SilkySlim

This draft is gonna be weak.

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Seems like every draft gets called weak.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

Someone is going to have to explain to me the appeal of Murray.

An undersized, under-athletic, combo guard who can't create his own shot or play defense.

Sure he finishes around the basket well, but do people really expect him to get there at the next level? His 3 point shot is good, but he hasn't proved to be much more than a catch and shoot guy.

I'm interested to know if any of Murray's fans were Austin Rivers fans.

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THIS. I've really cooled off on him.

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Originally Posted by All Metro

THIS. I've really cooled off on him.

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I think Murray has already shown an efficiency greater then Austin Rivers but I do get the sentiment.

A rich mans Austin Rivers or OJ Mayo seems fairly safe. Neither of which really have me excited too much.

My draft board looks like....wait, i'm not living in my moms basement, I have a job.What self respecting person makes a draft board unless you are paid to do so?


(shots fired)

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

Someone is going to have to explain to me the appeal of Murray.

An undersized, under-athletic, combo guard who can't create his own shot or play defense.

Sure he finishes around the basket well, but do people really expect him to get there at the next level? His 3 point shot is good, but he hasn't proved to be much more than a catch and shoot guy.

I'm interested to know if any of Murray's fans were Austin Rivers fans.

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"Catch and Shoot" very quickly. That's what I want at SG. An assassin who catches the ball and shoots it in the goal very quickly and accurately.

ray allen, reggie miller, and steph curry all faced similar scrutiny in regards to body-type upon entering the league and they are now the triumerate of deep ballers

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

My draft board looks like....wait, i'm not living in my moms basement, I have a job.What self respecting person makes a draft board unless you are paid to do so?


(shots fired)

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LMAO "draft board". Guess I'll bust my 2 round mock draft 4.5 later

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

Not to be a butt, but the fact that you say he can't create his own shot kind of shows you aren't very knowledgable about him and didn't watch him very often.

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First. I've seen him a lot actually.

I've seen Guardian Angel say that exactly (and others) and people seem to agree with his assessments around here. Murray was utilized much better as an offball player with Ulis dominating the ball in the second half of the season, and looked terrible going to him vs. IU in the tourney. 90% of his 3s were assisted as well, which is really the biggest part of his game.

I mean name a guy with below average size, quickness, and athleticism for his position who is a good shot creator at the pro level. Instead of just saying I'm wrong maybe provide some counter examples or aspects to his game that will translate directly to the pros other than being a good finisher around the basket and being a good catch and shoot player, which just puts you at quality 6thman in the NBA.

perhaps you're right on murray; but I remembered seeing this one

at the 40 second mark

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...B1&FORM=VRDGAR

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

First. I've seen him a lot actually.

I've seen Guardian Angel say that exactly (and others) and people seem to agree with his assessments around here. Murray was utilized much better as an offball player with Ulis dominating the ball in the second half of the season, and looked terrible going to him vs. IU in the tourney. 90% of his 3s were assisted as well, which is really the biggest part of his game.

I mean name a guy with below average size, quickness, and athleticism for his position who is a good shot creator at the pro level. Instead of just saying I'm wrong maybe provide some counter examples or aspects to his game that will translate directly to the pros other than being a good finisher around the basket and being a good catch and shoot player, which just puts you at quality 6thman in the NBA.

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I agree with this and what you said above. I like Murrays game but he doesn't create his own shot very well. That's not a huge knock because he's a freshman. Hield cousins create his own shot as a freshman either. The difference is Hield can create his own shot now as good as anyone while we are basing Murrays shot creating by his potential. I was a big fan of Murray and that has changed a little but I would like to see his combine before I make my final judgement on him. Interesting stat when you see 90% of his 3a were created for him.

What about drafting Dunn and trading Jrue for Kris Middleton? If we draft Dunn who would you be open to trading Jrue for? I would definitely want a young two way player at the 2/3 and Middleton fits that mold. To me he is a Klay Thompson clone and would be a perfect fit in Gentrys system. Everyone knows how much I like Jrue but I would go whatever approach is best for this team. I like Dunns game a lot but his injuries concern me along with his fit. If we moved Jrue for another young stud I would feel much better.

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

"Catch and Shoot" very quickly. That's what I want at SG. An assassin who catches the ball and shoots it in the goal very quickly and accurately.

ray allen, reggie miller, and steph curry all faced similar scrutiny in regards to body-type upon entering the league and they are now the triumerate of deep ballers

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Well Ray Allen and Steph Curry both had elite quickness. Reggie Miller had shooting guard length and all were better shooters. Murray while a good shooter additionally isn't any of those guys, might not even be in the top 2 shooters in this draft class (Hield, Valentine, Korkmaz). I think the best case scenario for Murray is a more combo guardy Kevin Martin.

I'd even much rather consider taking a guy like Jaylen Brown or even Malik Beasley if we have to take a freshman shooting guard. He brings similar shooting ability and an elite first step (while lacking the ball handling of Murray), with decent athleticism and defensive ability.

I think Murray gets a lot of hype from playing at UK personally and gets credit for putting up numbers in a down year. That's where the Austin Rivers comparison comes in, even though they are totally different players. admittedly Murray is less one dimensional, I just don't think he has what it takes to get around NBA defenders enough to be a star in the league and don't think he has generational shooting ability.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

What about drafting Dunn and trading Jrue for Kris Middleton? If we draft Dunn who would you be open to trading Jrue for? I would definitely want a young two way player at the 2/3 and Middleton fits that mold. To me he is a Klay Thompson clone and would be a perfect fit in Gentrys system. Everyone knows how much I like Jrue but I would go whatever approach is best for this team. I like Dunns game a lot but his injuries concern me along with his fit. If we moved Jrue for another young stud I would feel much better.

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I'd love Kris Middleton, he has an absolutely wonderful contract going forward too. but seeing as the Bucks reportedly turned down Rubio and a top 7 or so pick at the time for him around the trade deadline, I doubt they would bite. It would probably take our first thrown in to get Middleton. Maybe in a pick swap. In which case we would say yes (I hope).