Tyreke struggles

I can't imaging Benson, Loomis, and Demps are happy to see Roberts get more minutes and close out games instead of Tyreke.

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Originally Posted by HalfBreed

I can't imaging Benson, Loomis, and Demps are happy to see Roberts get more minutes and close out games instead of Tyreke.

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And the way slow pace "offense" Monty has in place! We have 80 guards (Gordan, Evans, Morrow, and Rivers strengths are all in fast pace offense) and a big man that can run and Monty loves to play half court.

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Originally Posted by speedyG

That was never gonna work. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective, those guys should be playing with a spot up shooter/floor spacer at the 3

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OR....they are the spot up shooters for him ???

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Originally Posted by redrum

or maybe hoping he could help fill the teams black hole at SF, not being used that way though.

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I'm not saying it's the answer but Reke has played almost 80% of his minutes at SF this year.

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Originally Posted by HalfBreed

I can't imaging Benson, Loomis, and Demps are happy to see Roberts get more minutes and close out games instead of Tyreke.

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That has to have Dell heated, Monty is making him looking like an idiot for making the trade when a D-leaguer is getting more min than a guy you just gave 11 mil.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I'm not saying it's the answer but Reke has played almost 80% of his minutes at SF this year.

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Whatever the stats say I believe, I just know when I am watching the games and Tyreke, Rivers, and Morrow are in together I do not technically know what position any of them are playing.

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Originally Posted by redrum

Whatever the stats say I believe, I just know when I am watching the games and Tyreke, Rivers, and Morrow are in together I do not technically know what position any of them are playing.

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It also makes it more confusing because when Evans is in he plays point forward. In the above scenario you posted he is definitely the SF. The only time he isn't is when Aminu is in there, but recently we've been playing Aminu at PF a lot and even then Reke is playing SF.

I think everyone agrees we need a true SF but looking at Reke's stats he's not as bad at SF as people said he was. He's great with assists and rebounds.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

It also makes it more confusing because when Evans is in he plays point forward. In the above scenario you posted he is definitely the SF. The only time he isn't is when Aminu is in there, but recently we've been playing Aminu at PF a lot and even then Reke is playing SF.

I think everyone agrees we need a true SF but looking at Reke's stats he's not as bad at SF as people said he was. He's great with assists and rebounds.

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Reke can handle his own when he's at the 3, he just loses his offensive advantage and on defense, he's alright cause he can't be bullied as much if they try to take him on the block.

One thing I've noticed from watching games is that the lineups he's in don't provide spacing sometimes, he's usually with two capable shooters, but two bigs that clog the lane, so the floor is spread some, but it still forces him into hard shots in the lane with 2 or 3 bodies. Or when Roberts is in with him, plays always seem to force him into the corner and there's no movement.

He'll get out of his funk, it'll just take time.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

That has to have Dell heated, Monty is making him looking like an idiot for making the trade when a D-leaguer is getting more min than a guy you just gave 11 mil.

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I'm sure it is!

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Originally Posted by redrum

OR....they are the spot up shooters for him ???

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Then you aren't getting the most out of Jrue and EG using them as spot up shooters. Those 2 can play and handle the scoring load on the perimeter, they just need a guy who can knock down open shots, not someone who needs to run the offense to be any good. Plus you take away a shooter for them to dish to if you play Evans at SF instead of a shooter

Neither Jrue or Gordon have been efficient scorers themselves so they don't have any more right to run the offense over Tyreke.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

Neither Jrue or Gordon have been efficient scorers themselves so they don't have any more right to run the offense over Tyreke.

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While I'm all for Reke running the offense, this statement isn't true. Jrue has a 51% TS rating and is shooting 39% from 3pt. Eric Gordin has a 54% TS rating and is shooting 38% from 3pt. They are both far more efficient scorers than Reke.

this dude..If Evans isn't playing on a run n gun team where he runs the show he isn't very good

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

thats weird, if we woulda signed him before jrue then i would understand, no way we would have known jrue would have been made available. But to have 36 million tied up between 3 guards is a little crazy, unless dell truely thought he could move gordon, im not spending 11 mil on a 6th man who gets 24 minutes...

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That's why I don't see how some are putting it all at the feet of Reke and Monty. It was Dell who apparently offered him 11M without having a clue if he could move Gordon or not. The plan definitely seems like it was for a Jrue/Reke backcourt but now 8 months later, and over a year since Dell started trying to move Gordon the dude is still here. That's not thinking the plan through very well in the first place.

You can't have such an expensive backcourt trio with no plan on how to use these guys. Even with Jrue out Reke isn't getting good mins. Then of course there's the use of him which has been terrible.

From watching just about every game Reke played in Sac I'll say this.

1) He's not healthy. He's not nearly as explosive as he can be.
2) He's a rhythm player. He excels both when he's getting 35 or more mins and is handling the ball. Start cutting down his touches and move him off the ball, he'll struggle. Play him under 30 mins and create an environment where he doesn't know if he's going to play 18, 24, 28, 33 mins, and he'll also struggle. He not only doesn't know his role, he doesn't even know what mins he'll play.
3) He's not as bad a shooter as he's showing. Last year he put up career %'s with his perimeter game. Even had stretches where he was raining down 4-5 jumpers a night from all over. Why isn't he shooting it well now? Don't forget he missed training camp with an injury. He still doesn't look healthy and with ankle problems his balance is probably screwed up. He's also probably forcing shots he otherwise wouldn't as he doesn't know when he's going to get pulled and rot on the bench.
4) There's some stuff here about him not being good in the halfcourt. He is. He's torn teams apart playing halfcourt ball. He also does well in transition but as soon as Monty puts him in pick & rolls with AD up top and the floor spread with shooters you all will see him start to excel in the halfcourt. The issue is more in a halfcourt offense Monty STILL doesn't get him the ball where he likes and plays to his strengths. When he's throwing lobs to AD in the halfcourt does anyone complain? The question should be why the hell doesn't Monty put those two in those positions more often.

But the most glaring mistake is Dell thinking he could move Gordon and not doing it. Anything aside from Reke sharing ballhandling duties up top and playing big mins at SG is not using him correctly. Having a plan to have him spend half his time off the ball watching as a backup SG, or battling SF's on both ends is completely idiotic given the investment in him.

Dell created this mess though and Monty just makes it worse. It's Dell's fault he invested over 20M in two young SG's who play best getting touches, being in rhythm and needing big mins. Dell created a roster situation where NEITHER Reke or Gordon will play near their ceilings. The mins just aren't there. You couldn't put Westbrook and Rose on the same team and expect them both to play as good as they can. Couldn't put Howard and Hibbert on the same team. Couldn't put Durant and Melo on the same team. Well an idiot would but they're never going to be maximized. Its actually similar to Asik and Howard. There's no room for Asik. Play the same situation. At least Houston picked one though as Hou isn't so dumb they think splitting mins evenly will allow both to excel. Imagine if Houston went hard after Howard, signed him then played him 25 mins to appease Asik? That's pretty much what we have here, going hard after Reke and offering big money then moving him to 6th man and playing him erratic and small mins to appease Gordon.

Is he even tradeable anymore? His deal has easily been the worst move of Demps

To get Reke, we gave up:
Robin Lopez
Greivis Vasquez
over $40 mil

Wtf.

He needs a team tailored to him to be at his best, he needs the ball in his hands, ideally on a run n gun team, and to be surrounded by shooters. But he isn't nearly good enough to tailor your team to fit him.

We already had our starting guards

He was supposed to improve our bench? Without him we could have had a bench of

Greivis
Rivers
Morrow
Anderson
Smith

Which would have already been one of the best benches in the league. What is the point of him? He, Jrue and Gordon are a bad fit so he shouldn't be starting

He put up inflated stats on a DGAF losing team where he had freedom to do anything

He cant even get a start over Brian Roberts or Aminu

We also gave up a starting caliber center on a good deal to get him, and now we don't have one. genius

I wish this team would start Tyreke at PG for a couple of games.

Tyreke is still averaging 18 points 6.5 rebounds 6.5 assists per 36, i think the plan was to move gordon and have him start but it didint work. Remmber when we were healthy dude was averaging 22-8-8. Think he is just discouraged and has no help, same with AD. When the whole team knows ur gonna drive it makes it hard, for anyone.

The difference is AD is still playing hard and looking like a star

Evans looks worse than almost everyone on the team

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Tyreke is still averaging 18 points 6.5 rebounds 6.5 assists per 36, i think the plan was to move gordon and have him start but it didint work. Remmber when we were healthy dude was averaging 22-8-8. Think he is just discouraged and has no help, same with AD. When the whole team knows ur gonna drive it makes it hard, for anyone.

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So you are saying it is hard to be an NBA player who plays major minutes at point or the 3 without a reliable outside shot? NO Kidding per 36!

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Originally Posted by speedyG

Is he even tradeable anymore? His deal has easily been the worst move of Demps

To get Reke, we gave up:
Robin Lopez
Greivis Vasquez
over $40 mil

Wtf.

He needs a team tailored to him to be at his best, he needs the ball in his hands, ideally on a run n gun team, and to be surrounded by shooters. But he isn't nearly good enough to tailor your team to fit him.

We already had our starting guards

He was supposed to improve our bench? Without him we could have had a bench of

Greivis
Rivers
Morrow
Anderson
Smith

Which would have already been one of the best benches in the league. What is the point of him? He, Jrue and Gordon are a bad fit so he shouldn't be starting

He put up inflated stats on a DGAF losing team where he had freedom to do anything

He cant even get a start over Brian Roberts or Aminu

We also gave up a starting caliber center on a good deal to get him, and now we don't have one. genius

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Great post. Although it really doesn't mean anything because what's done is done.

I remember at the time feeling uneasy about giving up Lopez and Vasquez. I justified it in my mind by saying they are both slow players and we need to run and gun.

We could sure use those two right now.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Tyreke is still averaging 18 points 6.5 rebounds 6.5 assists per 36, i think the plan was to move gordon and have him start but it didint work. Remmber when we were healthy dude was averaging 22-8-8. Think he is just discouraged and has no help, same with AD. When the whole team knows ur gonna drive it makes it hard, for anyone.

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Stopped reading there.

JAAJAAJAJAAJAJAAJAAJ what's going on with this "Gord(x)n" thing... You dislike him way too much eh.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Stopped reading there.

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cool

still blows my mind that with austin, jrue, tyreke, gordon & aminu on this roster we rarely fast break

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

cool

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Look, I actually agree with you from time to time, but you are using per 36 completely wrong and it takes away from your arguments. Your underlying point in your previous post actually seems pretty valid, but constantly throwing per 36 around is making some not even want to respond to you. Which is not what anyone wants.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Look, I actually agree with you from time to time, but you are using per 36 completely wrong and it takes away from your arguments. Your underlying point in your previous post actually seems pretty valid, but constantly throwing per 36 around is making some not even want to respond to you. Which is not what anyone wants.

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I don't think there's anything wrong with what Guru did in the case of Evans. For his career coming into this season he averaged 35mpg with two years him playing 37mpg or more. Using PER36 to see what his numbers would be like if he played his usual minutes is perfectly valid in this case. Evans is not some scrub bench player that Guru is taking 10mpg and multiplying. People don't want to respond because they have already formed an opinion of Evans in their mind and want to be right. Any stats thrown out would be met with the same criticism because they don't want to believe they are wrong about Evans being terrible.

Anyone that looks at his stats fairly see that he is greatly struggling with jumpers but every other facet of his game is great. The numbers he is putting up with this ragtag thrown together team are solid in his limited minutes. The perception that he needs to be surrounded by great players to be good is just silly. I think the reason per36 is so valid in this argument is look at the numbers he would be averaging with regular minutes with this group. Of course people don't want to listen to that argument, it makes them look silly.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I don't think there's anything wrong with what Guru did in the case of Evans. For his career coming into this season he averaged 35mpg with two years him playing 37mpg or more. Using PER36 to see what his numbers would be like if he played his usual minutes is perfectly valid in this case. Evans is not some scrub bench player that Guru is taking 10mpg and multiplying. People don't want to respond because they have already formed an opinion of Evans in their mind and want to be right. Any stats thrown out would be met with the same criticism because they don't want to believe they are wrong about Evans being terrible.

Anyone that looks at his stats fairly see that he is greatly struggling with jumpers but every other facet of his game is great. The numbers he is putting up with this ragtag thrown together team are solid in his limited minutes. The perception that he needs to be surrounded by great players to be good is just silly. I think the reason per36 is so valid in this argument is look at the numbers he would be averaging with regular minutes with this group. Of course people don't want to listen to that argument, it makes them look silly.

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I think its the other way around. People are constantly making up excuses for Evans, even in this post. "Oh but he could be good if he played with this guy in this system, under this coach in this role, with this lineup, the ragtag team is holding him back.." "he cant make a jumper but he scored 20 ppg in his first season"

No one said he had to be surrounded by great players, by shooters. Otherwise you have spacing issues

Evans put up ok numbers on an awful team where he had freedom to be the man running the team, and you aren't going to win much with Evans as "the man" (plus his numbers have declined every year) Some of you guys cant get over that

Remember when jarrett Jack had the freedom to run our garbage team? He put up similar numbers to what Tyreke did last year. Those stats dont tell the whole story

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I don't think there's anything wrong with what Guru did in the case of Evans. For his career coming into this season he averaged 35mpg with two years him playing 37mpg or more. Using PER36 to see what his numbers would be like if he played his usual minutes is perfectly valid in this case. Evans is not some scrub bench player that Guru is taking 10mpg and multiplying. People don't want to respond because they have already formed an opinion of Evans in their mind and want to be right. Any stats thrown out would be met with the same criticism because they don't want to believe they are wrong about Evans being terrible.

Anyone that looks at his stats fairly see that he is greatly struggling with jumpers but every other facet of his game is great. The numbers he is putting up with this ragtag thrown together team are solid in his limited minutes. The perception that he needs to be surrounded by great players to be good is just silly. I think the reason per36 is so valid in this argument is look at the numbers he would be averaging with regular minutes with this group. Of course people don't want to listen to that argument, it makes them look silly.

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Thank you, some people dont understand that, im not taking a guy who plays 3.7 minutes a game and putting up his per 36 stats showing he can average 52 points and 22 rebounds a game, if u look at tyreke's numbers throughout his career he averages around 35, this year he has upped his rebounding and assists, if tyreke evans was a starter and played 36 mins this year he WOULD in fact give u around 18 - 6.5 - 6.5 a game

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Look, I actually agree with you from time to time, but you are using per 36 completely wrong and it takes away from your arguments. Your underlying point in your previous post actually seems pretty valid, but constantly throwing per 36 around is making some not even want to respond to you. Which is not what anyone wants.

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disagree, in the case of tyreke evans i couldn't be using per 36 in more of a correct fashion.

imagine a team with tyreke running the point through the SG position with jrue, gordon hayward, ryan anderson and anthony davis spreading the floor. would be beautiful

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Originally Posted by speedyG

I think its the other way around. People are constantly making up excuses for Evans, even in this post. "Oh but he could be good if he played with this guy in this system, under this coach in this role, with this lineup, the ragtag team is holding him back.." "he cant make a jumper but he scored 20 ppg in his first season"

No one said he had to be surrounded by great players, by shooters. Otherwise you have spacing issues

Evans put up ok numbers on an awful team where he had freedom to be the man running the team, and you aren't going to win much with Evans as "the man" (plus his numbers have declined every year) Some of you guys cant get over that

Remember when jarrett Jack had the freedom to run our garbage team? He put up similar numbers to what Tyreke did last year. Those stats dont tell the whole story

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The fact that you say his numbers have declined every year shows that you aren't interested in examining Evans as a player and want to just blindly hate him. You have your opinion and it's clear you aren't interested in actually discussing him. There's nothing more to be said than we will have to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

imagine a team with tyreke running the point through the SG position with jrue, gordon hayward, ryan anderson and anthony davis spreading the floor. would be beautiful

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Not really. I prefer Jrue have the ball in his hands as a playmaker. Having reke off the bench as the teams secondary ball handler works though.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

The fact that you say his numbers have declined every year shows that you aren't interested in examining Evans as a player and want to just blindly hate him. You have your opinion and it's clear you aren't interested in actually discussing him. There's nothing more to be said than we will have to wait and see.

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oh so its ok for you to use his old stats, but when they don't support your argument and I use them, it means I'm blindly hating :hihi:

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Originally Posted by speedyG

oh so its ok for you to use his old stats, but when they don't support your argument and I use them, it means I'm blindly hating :hihi:

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I think you misunderstand. It's not about using old stats. It's about being wrong. His stats haven't declined every year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...evansty01.html

But because you are so blindly hating him you make the story fit your perception, even though it's untrue.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I think you misunderstand. It's not about using old stats. It's about being wrong. His stats haven't declined every year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...evansty01.html

But because you are so blindly hating him you make the story fit your perception, even though it's untrue.

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Minutes, Points down every year, assists go down 4 years straight. I think you have trouble reading. Minutes are a stat, he lost playing time for a reason and hasn't improved or even matched what he did in his rookie year

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Originally Posted by speedyG

Minutes, Points down every year, assists go down 4 years straight. I think you have trouble reading. Minutes are a stat, he lost playing time for a reason and hasn't improved or even matched what he did in his rookie year

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LOL. Ok buddy.

And that wasnt even the basis of my argument, the fact that out of all that you nitpick something I put in parentheses shows how much your grasping at straws

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I don't think there's anything wrong with what Guru did in the case of Evans. For his career coming into this season he averaged 35mpg with two years him playing 37mpg or more. Using PER36 to see what his numbers would be like if he played his usual minutes is perfectly valid in this case. Evans is not some scrub bench player that Guru is taking 10mpg and multiplying. People don't want to respond because they have already formed an opinion of Evans in their mind and want to be right. Any stats thrown out would be met with the same criticism because they don't want to believe they are wrong about Evans being terrible.

Anyone that looks at his stats fairly see that he is greatly struggling with jumpers but every other facet of his game is great. The numbers he is putting up with this ragtag thrown together team are solid in his limited minutes. The perception that he needs to be surrounded by great players to be good is just silly. I think the reason per36 is so valid in this argument is look at the numbers he would be averaging with regular minutes with this group. Of course people don't want to listen to that argument, it makes them look silly.

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The word GREAT is thrown around too loosely on this board. There is nothing about tyreke Evans that is great. Sorry there just isn't. Only 1 person on this team that great can correlate with and I think we know who that is. Great should be reserved for the ones who are truly great. That is not tyreke Evans.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

The word GREAT is thrown around too loosely on this board. There is nothing about tyreke Evans that is great. Sorry there just isn't. Only 1 person on this team that great can correlate with and I think we know who that is. Great should be reserved for the ones who are truly great. That is not tyreke Evans.

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Tyreke is GREAT at making jumpers after the whistle blows. I honestly don't remember a miss.... just sayin. lol

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

Tyreke is GREAT at making jumpers after the whistle blows. I honestly don't remember a miss.... just sayin. lol

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:hihi: I literally just laughed out loud n got slapped for almost waking the baby up. Thanks man appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

:hihi: I literally just laughed out loud n got slapped for almost waking the baby up. Thanks man appreciate it.

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She was probably beyond happy to slap you. I'm sure she had plenty of reasons. ;) They all do.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I don't think there's anything wrong with what Guru did in the case of Evans. For his career coming into this season he averaged 35mpg with two years him playing 37mpg or more. Using PER36 to see what his numbers would be like if he played his usual minutes is perfectly valid in this case. Evans is not some scrub bench player that Guru is taking 10mpg and multiplying. People don't want to respond because they have already formed an opinion of Evans in their mind and want to be right. Any stats thrown out would be met with the same criticism because they don't want to believe they are wrong about Evans being terrible.

Anyone that looks at his stats fairly see that he is greatly struggling with jumpers but every other facet of his game is great. The numbers he is putting up with this ragtag thrown together team are solid in his limited minutes. The perception that he needs to be surrounded by great players to be good is just silly. I think the reason per36 is so valid in this argument is look at the numbers he would be averaging with regular minutes with this group. Of course people don't want to listen to that argument, it makes them look silly.

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The dude said and I quote "Tyreke is still averaging 18 points 6.5 rebounds 6.5 assists per 36" That is a dumb way of justifing his poor play. The guy is shooting 40% from the field and 15% from 3 (that's not a typo), that is GARBAGE. Per36 doesn't take into account things that actually matter like i don't know fatigue/injury/personnel. He's averaged 36mpg in SACRAMENTO, which is a completely different team; he's never done that in NEW ORLEANS.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

disagree, in the case of tyreke evans i couldn't be using per 36 in more of a correct fashion.

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No you still overuse way to much, which was the point of my post. Wasn't doing it to be an *** was just trying to be helpful but whatevs idc.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

The dude said and I quote "Tyreke is still averaging 18 points 6.5 rebounds 6.5 assists per 36" That is a dumb way of justifing his poor play. The guy is shooting 40% from the field and 15% from 3 (that's not a typo), that is GARBAGE. Per36 doesn't take into account things that actually matter like i don't know fatigue/injury/personnel. He's averaged 36mpg in SACRAMENTO, which is a completely different team; he's never done that in NEW ORLEANS.



No you still overuse way to much, which was the point of my post. Wasn't doing it to be an *** was just trying to be helpful but whatevs idc.

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i know u werent being an *** and i know i use it too much, but with THIS point, it was correct and used correctly. Give credit where credits due

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

The dude said and I quote "Tyreke is still averaging 18 points 6.5 rebounds 6.5 assists per 36" That is a dumb way of justifing his poor play. The guy is shooting 40% from the field and 15% from 3 (that's not a typo), that is GARBAGE. Per36 doesn't take into account things that actually matter like i don't know fatigue/injury/personnel. He's averaged 36mpg in SACRAMENTO, which is a completely different team; he's never done that in NEW ORLEANS.

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Why are you only harping on his shooting? I've said multiple times he has been awful this year with jump shooting. I've never debated that. You and everyone else hang onto his shooting % for dear life to try and justify this undue hatred of him as if those are the only stats that matter at all and then ridicule/mock people who post other stats that support the belief that Reke is better than people are giving him credit.

He's averaging 10 minutes less per game than he averaged in Sacremento. The ONLY way to fairly assess this year versus previous years with Tyreke is through equalized stats. You can't say all his numbers are down and not account for him playing 33% less minutes per game this year. Ignoring the equalized stats, he is stilling having his highest AST% and TRB% of his career this year and is posting his lowest DRtg of his career. His TOV rate while up from last year is still lower than his career average, as is his FTr. Ironically enough Tyreke is shooting a career high % from 3-10ft. The problem Tyreke is having is this year he is finishing well lower than his career average from around the rim 0-3ft. He is down 14% this year from last year and 10% from his career average. I know people are hating on his jump shot and it definitely is bad, but he's taking 75% of his shots within 10ft of the basket. I'm not sure it's as big of an issue as people make it out to be. If he averages his career average from around the rim, what exactly can people complain about?

My biggest issue is people act like the only thing that matters is shooting and ignore all the other ways Tyreke impacts the game. I'm fine with people not liking Tyreke but they should at least be even when trying to assess a player and look at all stats instead of ignoring the ones that would change their opinion of him.

it would be great if the pelicans shooting coaches could teach tyreke and aminu to shoot..

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Originally Posted by speedyG

Evans put up ok numbers on an awful team where he had freedom to be the man running the team, and you aren't going to win much with Evans as "the man" (plus his numbers have declined every year) Some of you guys cant get over that

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This is how dumb this argument is though. Know how easy it is to turn it around on you?

AD is only putting up good numbers on a crap team where he's the only decent big who plays within 10ft of the rim. Therefor, you aren't going to win much with AD as "the man". Same goes for that guy they call Uncle Drew. All he does is put up good numbers because he has freedom, but his team isn't winning, therefor you'll never win with Kyrie being "the man".

Still agree? I mean, I'm just going by your logic.

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Originally Posted by SilkySlim

This is how dumb this argument is though. Know how easy it is to turn it around on you?

AD is only putting up good numbers on a crap team where he's the only decent big who plays within 10ft of the rim. Therefor, you aren't going to win much with AD as "the man". Same goes for that guy they call Uncle Drew. All he does is put up good numbers because he has freedom, but his team isn't winning, therefor you'll never win with Kyrie being "the man".

Still agree? I mean, I'm just going by your logic.

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AD doesn't even need to be "the man" to get his points or produce at an incredible level. And AD isn't a guy who doesn't fit on the floor with certain players, not to mention he does everything you want out of a PF and has almost no flaw.

Until Evans proves he can produce on a winning team where he isn't the star, its fair to be skeptical of him. He isn't good enough to be the star player on a winning team

Kyrie hasn't declined, never shot 40% for a season, and again he is a guy that can play with just about anyone. You dont have to worry about spacing being an issue because of Kyrie. And he can score in just about any way, as opposed to Tyreke who can do nothing but take it to the hole and finish fast breaks. Horrible comparison

you want other examples look at Evan Turner, Demar Derozan, guys who absolutely need the ball in their hands to have any value

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Originally Posted by speedyG

AD doesn't even need to be "the man" to get his points. And AD isn't a guy who doesn't fit on the floor with certain players, not to mention he does everything you want out of a PF and has almost no flaw.

Until Evans proves he can produce on a winning team where he isn't the star, its fair to be skeptical of him. He isn't good enough to be the star player on a winning team

Kyrie hasn't declined, never shot 40% for a season, and again he is a guy that can play with just about anyone. You dont have to worry about spacing being an issue because of Kyrie. And he can score in just about any way, as opposed to Tyreke who can do nothing but take it to the hole and finish fast breaks. Horrible comparison

you want other examples look at Evan Turner, Demar Derozan, guys who absolutely need the ball in their hands to have any value

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agreed, i been saying evan turner is just like tyreke

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Originally Posted by speedyG

AD doesn't even need to be "the man" to get his points. And AD isn't a guy who doesn't fit on the floor with certain players, not to mention he does everything you want out of a PF and has almost no flaw.

Until Evans proves he can produce on a winning team where he isn't the star, its fair to be skeptical of him. He isn't good enough to be the star player on a winning team

Kyrie hasn't declined, never shot 40% for a season, and again he is a guy that can play with just about anyone. You dont have to worry about spacing being an issue because of Kyrie. And he can score in just about any way, as opposed to Tyreke who can do nothing but take it to the hole and finish fast breaks. Horrible comparison

you want other examples look at Evan Turner, Demar Derozan, guys who absolutely need the ball in their hands to have any value

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Actually, Kyrie has declined from his rookie year. He's shooting a worse FG% than his rookie year, worse TS%, worse eFG%, worse 3pt %, worse Rebounds, worse Blocks, worse FT%, worse TRB%, worse AST%, worse USAGE %.

I just want you to see how silly your argument is when used against Evans.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Actually, Kyrie has declined from his rookie year. He's shooting a worse FG% than his rookie year, worse TS%, worse eFG%, worse 3pt %, worse Rebounds, worse Blocks, worse FT%, worse TRB%, worse AST%, worse USAGE %.

I just want you to see how silly your argument is when used against Evans.

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His numbers haven't really changed much. And regardless Kyrie can knock down an open shot, and score in more ways along with being able to set up his teammates. He isn't nearly as limited as Evans, they aren't comparable