Keeping Eric Gordon is the right decision

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

For me, it's simple. Is he an All Star calibre player? Maybe, certainly not yet. Never been on a winning team either.

Okay, then how injury prone is he? Extremely.

Well, how serious have the injuries been? Consistent, and knee injuries are unpredictable.

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Rooting for the guy to succeed and make me eat crow, but this is how I would honestly have to answer these questions.

I do like what Curry has done not afraid to play injured.

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Originally Posted by Mr. West

Rooting for the guy to succeed and make me eat crow, but this is how I would honestly have to answer these questions.

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I think the biggest misconception is about his knee injury. Since it took so long, everyone thinks it was some big injury that's going to plague him his whole career, but really it took so long because there was a gross misdiagnosis, and then when they finally found out what was wrong and he was able to play again, the season was almost over. Then, during the off season, it started swelling again, and that's because the 1st surgery left some "debris" that they had to clean out (aka: a little cartilage, but certainly not the majority of the cartilage, so no biggie). By that time, the muscles in his quad were shot, so then he had to rehab them until they were back to normal. This all took a long time, but it's not a major injury by any means.

Its crazy how much controversy one player can spark. Its not Tim Tebow esque but still...

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

I think the biggest misconception is about his knee injury. Since it took so long, everyone thinks it was some big injury that's going to plague him his whole career, but really it took so long because there was a gross misdiagnosis, and then when they finally found out what was wrong and he was able to play again, the season was almost over. Then, during the off season, it started swelling again, and that's because the 1st surgery left some "debris" that they had to clean out (aka: a little cartilage, but certainly not the majority of the cartilage, so no biggie). By that time, the muscles in his quad were shot, so then he had to rehab them until they were back to normal. This all took a long time, but it's not a major injury by any means.

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I think it could also be the whole deal of wanting to play in PHX that left a bad taste too.

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

I think the biggest misconception is about his knee injury. Since it took so long, everyone thinks it was some big injury that's going to plague him his whole career, but really it took so long because there was a gross misdiagnosis, and then when they finally found out what was wrong and he was able to play again, the season was almost over. Then, during the off season, it started swelling again, and that's because the 1st surgery left some "debris" that they had to clean out (aka: a little cartilage, but certainly not the majority of the cartilage, so no biggie). By that time, the muscles in his quad were shot, so then he had to rehab them until they were back to normal. This all took a long time, but it's not a major injury by any means.

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Its good that we (or you) know what went wrong. That does not make it any less serious.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

The team owns Davis' right at the very least 5 more years. Realistically 8-10. If we can't find additional talent in that time we are screwed anyways. They didn't stop making quality players after Eric Gordon. This is completely ignoring the fact that in just two years he can walk away from the franchise and there's nothing the organization can do to stop it.

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but how do we get those quality players...they don't want to go small markets

ok the point of my original post was that we should consider the difficulty in obtaining a player as good as Gordon when discussing this matter...the injury point is mute in my original argument because i said even if you think there is only a 20% chance of him staying healthy, that still likely surpasses the chances of us getting a player as good as him based on the history of the free agent market and small markets and how poor the top of this draft is

a lot of say the worst spot to be in is stuck in mediocrity, not good enough to compete and not bad enough to obtain someone that can help us compete...and that is what our future holds, no matter how good our GM is, the NBA game is not kind to small markets without an unbelievable amount of luck

If MVP voting was just based on opinion on this board, Eric Gordon would have won the last two years. His talent and ability is purely theoretical. What he's actually done for the Hornets is be a decent starting NBA shooting guard.

This sums up my feelings about Gordon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB5-yJM3vJc&sns=tw

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

This sums up my feelings about Gordon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB5-yJM3vJc&sns=tw

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this x100

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

This sums up my feelings about Gordon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB5-yJM3vJc&sns=tw

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ironically, don't you think the 49ers are happy they kept the player that Singletary is ranting about in this clip ; )

Let his stock rise and trade him to someone dumb enough to pay him that silly contract

I just think people overrate him, I mean his "fringe-allstar" type season he had with the clippers averaging 22 and 4, during which he only played 56 games and the clippers only won 32 games, is now almost 3 years ago and he hasn't come close to replicating it besides passing glimpses of what might be sandwiched between moments of disinterest and laziness. He looks great hitting game winners against the SUNS and MAVS, making great come-back debuts against the BOBCATS, but then he plays lazy off ball D a lot, sometimes lazy O as well, and generally doesn't impact a lot of other games, often looking disinterested, and making turn over after turn over down the stretch. As if his play wasn't frustrating enough you then have to take in the injury issues, whether it affects his durability long and short term, his playing ability, and then his potential.

To me, the guy has proven he is nothing more than a pretty good player in the league, and "potential" is only worth so much. These next two years will tell what he really is, and he'll be with us for at least one of them, because his value has been on quite a downward spiral and his average play as it is would be worth more than any of the picks or players we'd get for him straight up.

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Originally Posted by PelicanFever

ironically, don't you think the 49ers are happy they kept the player that Singletary is ranting about in this clip ; )

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That's what I was thinking. Amazing what winning will do for a player's attitude or perceived attitude.

I saw a Hoopsworld reporter say they've never seen anyone with more ice on there body after games than EG, also compared EG's situation to Brandon Roy's. It's not that he doesn't want to play, I'm sure he wants to play, he's actually been injured and this should cause the most concern. It's honestly time to cut ties before its too late, at this point anything in return is good.

Keep him, what value will he bring in return currently? Who is out there that is worth trading for and is available?

Question for those in favor of just giving this guy up for crap, who's gonna play SG in your scenario? Honestly, cause if we ship this guy for peanuts (which IS his current value) then who are we going to trot out there on opening night? Rivers? Some journeymen or young player? Might as well chalk up another 20-win season now and decreased stability for Monty's job.

Thank you NOLA Slim, you are the first person that has gotten it right. EG was misdiagnosed by the team's medical staff mutiple times including the bruise knee situtation before the February 2012 scope. During training camp the team recommended rest and according to the local newspaper considered microfacture surgery as an option. It was a knee specialist in Chicago that diagnosed his quad weakness. It was Gordon's QUAD muscles that caused him to missed half the season not his knee. The professional reporting community here continue to broadcast this myth about his knee. Given the misdiagnoses that could have cost him his career, why should he be happy?


Gordon is an easy target because he does not smile including at the newsconference when introduced to the city. Guess the first impression is lasting. Maybe the guy is quiet and somewhat shy. I more concern with players that are happy to be on a losing team.

Gordon wants to win. He is the Pelican's best overall player. AD will probably be better but it will take another year. It amazes me the number of people that believe Ryan Anderson is a better player than EG. Just look how other teams game plan againist the Hornets. Gordon is doubled. He is the only player that can create his own shot.

One last thing, Rivers had his surgery in NYC and Smith's shoulder opeation was performed in LA. Tells you something.

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Originally Posted by durun

Thank you NOLA Slim, you are the first person that has gotten it right. EG was misdiagnosed by the team's medical staff mutiple times including the bruise knee situtation before the February 2012 scope. During training camp the team recommended rest and according to the local newspaper considered microfacture surgery as an option. It was a knee specialist in Chicago that diagnosed his quad weakness. It was Gordon's QUAD muscles that caused him to missed half the season not his knee. The professional reporting community here continue to broadcast this myth about his knee. Given the misdiagnoses that could have cost him his career, why should he be happy?


Gordon is an easy target because he does not smile including at the newsconference when introduced to the city. Guess the first impression is lasting. Maybe the guy is quiet and somewhat shy. I more concern with players that are happy to be on a losing team.

Gordon wants to win. He is the Pelican's best overall player. AD will probably be better but it will take another year. It amazes me the number of people that believe Ryan Anderson is a better player than EG. Just look how other teams game plan againist the Hornets. Gordon is doubled. He is the only player that can create his own shot.

One last thing, Rivers had his surgery in NYC and Smith's shoulder opeation was performed in LA. Tells you something.

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Well put :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by durun

Thank you NOLA Slim, you are the first person that has gotten it right. EG was misdiagnosed by the team's medical staff mutiple times including the bruise knee situtation before the February 2012 scope. During training camp the team recommended rest and according to the local newspaper considered microfacture surgery as an option. It was a knee specialist in Chicago that diagnosed his quad weakness. It was Gordon's QUAD muscles that caused him to missed half the season not his knee. The professional reporting community here continue to broadcast this myth about his knee. Given the misdiagnoses that could have cost him his career, why should he be happy?

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Why he continues to miss significant time is irrelevant. The fact that he continues to miss time every season is what's important.

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Gordon is an easy target because he does not smile including at the newsconference when introduced to the city. Guess the first impression is lasting. Maybe the guy is quiet and somewhat shy. I more concern with players that are happy to be on a losing team.

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He's an easy target because he was the one running off at the mouth about him nothing wanting to be here. Personally I could careless about his personality. However it can't be ignored that his feeling will factor into where he plays ball after the 2014-15 season.

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Gordon wants to win. He is the Pelican's best overall player. AD will probably be better but it will take another year. It amazes me the number of people that believe Ryan Anderson is a better player than EG. Just look how other teams game plan againist the Hornets. Gordon is doubled. He is the only player that can create his own shot.

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It's hard to say what Gordon wants or where he feels he has the best opportunity to achieve those goals. Like you mention EJ isn't an open person.

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Originally Posted by PelicanFever

ironically, don't you think the 49ers are happy they kept the player that Singletary is ranting about in this clip ; )

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Originally Posted by GESWhoseBack

That's what I was thinking. Amazing what winning will do for a player's attitude or perceived attitude.

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Harbough did not get to SF until 2011. Davis already started producing at an elite level 2 years before Jim's hire, under the coaching of Singletary. So something finally clicked, but it wasn't the new coach.

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Originally Posted by ItsPaulyP

Question for those in favor of just giving this guy up for crap, who's gonna play SG in your scenario? Honestly, cause if we ship this guy for peanuts (which IS his current value) then who are we going to trot out there on opening night? Rivers? Some journeymen or young player? Might as well chalk up another 20-win season now and decreased stability for Monty's job.

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Whoever we would trot out should he miss the first half of the season.

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Originally Posted by durun

Thank you NOLA Slim, you are the first person that has gotten it right. EG was misdiagnosed by the team's medical staff mutiple times including the bruise knee situtation before the February 2012 scope. During training camp the team recommended rest and according to the local newspaper considered microfacture surgery as an option. It was a knee specialist in Chicago that diagnosed his quad weakness. It was Gordon's QUAD muscles that caused him to missed half the season not his knee. The professional reporting community here continue to broadcast this myth about his knee. Given the misdiagnoses that could have cost him his career, why should he be happy?

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I'm sorry, but if you think quad weakness is the reason he missed HALF a season then I don't know what to say. First off, he had the surgery and I'm just going to assume he rehabbed it. A huge part of rehabbing a knee is building quad strength even more than it was before to help protect the knee. Everyone knows this, if his docs let him have knee surgery and did not PT him after (which i highly doubt) then I'll give his injury history a pass. From the naked eye, It really seems like some of this falls on Gordon who it seems doesn't take care of his body properly. Let's say his leg was atrophied (reported like 1/2 the size of this other quad); why would he play on it? This is all assumption because all i know is what I've read and been told; but I have a hard time believing he went from knee surgery to his knee having a lot atrophy and playing? Just seems extremely fishy. I am also not a medical professional; I worked in a health club which had PT for about 5 years in college so i've seen and heard a lot of information.

I think too many people are assuming Gordon will be the next Curry.

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Originally Posted by PowerPel

I think too many people are assuming Gordon will be the next Curry.

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In what sense?

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

I'm sorry, but if you think quad weakness is the reason he missed HALF a season then I don't know what to say. First off, he had the surgery and I'm just going to assume he rehabbed it. A huge part of rehabbing a knee is building quad strength even more than it was before to help protect the knee. Everyone knows this, if his docs let him have knee surgery and did not PT him after (which i highly doubt) then I'll give his injury history a pass. From the naked eye, It really seems like some of this falls on Gordon who it seems doesn't take care of his body properly. Let's say his leg was atrophied (reported like 1/2 the size of this other quad); why would he play on it? This is all assumption because all i know is what I've read and been told; but I have a hard time believing he went from knee surgery to his knee having a lot atrophy and playing? Just seems extremely fishy. I am also not a medical professional; I worked in a health club which had PT for about 5 years in college so i've seen and heard a lot of information.

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Fishy how? Not trying to provoke you, but I think there was plenty of fishy activity from both parties. I just want to know where your at.

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Originally Posted by PowerPel

I think too many people are assuming Gordon will be the next Curry.

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I think too many people assume they know what the other is thinking. That is the real problem.

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Originally Posted by PelicanFever

but how do we get those quality players...they don't want to go small markets

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The draft.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

I think too many people assume they know what the other is thinking. That is the real problem.

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We know what Fletch thinks,

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Fishy how? Not trying to provoke you, but I think there was plenty of fishy activity from both parties. I just want to know where your at.

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I think it's fishy on both parties. I don't think he's faking it. I also can't believe that a doctor cleared him to play with his surgery leg being half the size of this non surgery leg. That's fishy to me.

Dathrone: Here is why it's relevant!!!!

It is extremely relevant when your return to play is hampered by the team’s misdiagnosis. It is the team’s responsibility to treat the player’s injury with the best medical care possible. It is so relevant that routine surgeries are now being performed in Los Angeles and New York. This alone indicates the Pelicans believed it was relevant. It also allowed the organization to make excuses for regressing and poor play. More importantly, it was relevant because it gave fans like you the wrong perception of Gordon.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

I think it's fishy on both parties. I don't think he's faking it. I also can't believe that a doctor cleared him to play with his surgery leg being half the size of this non surgery leg. That's fishy to me.

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I completely agree; i think he was very reckless with his body. I also think it was fishy for Hornicans medical staff to suggest microfracture surgery not once but twice when it wasnt required. If microfracture surgery goes wrong it can end a players career, and that would have given Demps and co. much more power in negotiations. Maybe the staff is incompetant, but its still interesting nonetheless. All we can do is speculate, and it makes me sick.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

The draft.

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this draft is very weak at top though!! and we likely won't get a top 5 next year..won't be able to build like the thunder did

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

I completely agree; i think he was very reckless with his body. I also think it was fishy for Hornicans medical staff to suggest microfracture surgery not once but twice when it wasnt required. If microfracture surgery goes wrong it can end a players career, and that would have given Demps and co. much more power in negotiations. Maybe the staff is incompetant, but its still interesting nonetheless. All we can do is speculate, and it makes me sick.

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This matter needs to be addressed soon because if its true its has to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Harbough did not get to SF until 2011. Davis already started producing at an elite level 2 years before Jim's hire, under the coaching of Singletary. So something finally clicked, but it wasn't the new coach.

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I wasn't dumping on Singletary. I think he is a great coach. I was just saying player always act differently when they are winning oppose to losing. And I feel if we can show some signs of improvement, this EG wants to leave crap could go away.

every single year an early draft pick is a bust and a player in college who produced is taken late, like kawhi leonard or kenneth faried. if we can land burke this year and one of the sf's next year we are in great shape.

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Originally Posted by GESWhoseBack

I wasn't dumping on Singletary. I think he is a great coach. I was just saying player always act differently when they are winning oppose to losing. And I feel if we can show some signs of improvement, this EG wants to leave crap could go away.

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Agreed.

You keep Gordon unless you can get something of value. The Suns fiasco was to get as much money as he could, so I don't blame him. David West opted out of his deal after he tore his ACL proving anything could happen even after an injury. I hope Gordon plays well next season and either we keep him or see how our draft pick does and adjust. If things don't look good going into the trade deadline then I think you move him and work on another high pick. If your playing well, run out the season and see how you end it.

As for Gordon opting out, I hope its at least a sign and trade to get something for him but we don't have to worry about that for a couple of years.

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Originally Posted by durun

Dathrone: Here is why it's relevant!!!!

It is extremely relevant when your return to play is hampered by the team’s misdiagnosis. It is the team’s responsibility to treat the player’s injury with the best medical care possible. It is so relevant that routine surgeries are now being performed in Los Angeles and New York. This alone indicates the Pelicans believed it was relevant. It also allowed the organization to make excuses for regressing and poor play. More importantly, it was relevant because it gave fans like you the wrong perception of Gordon.

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If this was Gordon's only injury I would be more inclined to agree. However he's always getting hurt. Which is the point. Not giving our staff a pass for the misdiagnoses, however the greater problem is he always needs some kind of diagnoses for some kind of injury that prevents him for being 100%.

DA Throne: Please give me examples of Gordon always getting hurt. I would appreciate it.

I would agree that EJ’s response regarding the Suns was not the best public relations but he has said positive things about NOLA since Phoenix. What is the correlation between wanting to be here and performance? If you can demonstrate the relationship then I will concur with your argument. Secondly, he had the opportunity not to sign and become a free agent this upcoming summer. Thirdly, players change on whether they want to be here. So what statement EG made since that indicates he does not want to be here.

How many players really would rather be playing somewhere else? Per Hornets Guru, we have three unhappy players and I would like to add one disgruntled player’s dad. I think I am safe to state that the dad and player communicated long before that episode after the Lakers’ game. I wish more players were unhappy. Basketball is measurement in terms of winning games and the Hornets lacked victories last season. If you a bunch of happy players in a losing environment, you are doomed to the lottery forever.
You have to consider the events that lead to the Suns statement. Demps demonstrated his GM inexperience. He should have known Gordon’s market value. I was obvious that there were other teams willingly to pay him $14.5M/yr. Just check the internet during that timeframe. Why not just offer him the monies? The Hornets had nothing to gain in this situation. It is one of Demps’ primary job duties to know market value. Yes, Demps saved the Hornets monies by not giving EG the five year max deal but he alienated his best player. IMO this is the reason he made that infamous statement. It was about dollars, the organization but not about the city of New Orleans. Sure he rather Los Angeles but he wanted the money even more so. The Suns showed EG respect by showing him the money. They offered him the max; the Hornets did not. It was not anything persona by Gordon; it was business. Do not be like Fletcher and take it personal by wrapping yourself in the fleur-de-bee flag. I am sure it has not helped WDSU ratings.

Players get over these hurdles because they have another payday in a few years. They have to produce to get that next big check. EG will not only look to get paid but for an opportunity to win a championship. This draft, free agency decisions, Rivers’ development and the staff’s vision of AD’s position will be critical this summer and to the road for a future championship.

As far as the medical staff, it should be noted that EG’s surgery was successful; it was his rehab and the staff inability to diagnose the weakness in his quad muscles and the initial knee bruise during his first season with the Hornets. It may be a basketball problem given OKC allowed Westbrook to play with a bump knee and the same with the Rondo with the Celtics.

My real issue is not with medical folks but with the organization. The organization was not forthright with the situation. The organization used and sacrificed Gordon to hide the Hornets’ failures.

Just think we could be arguing this for a while well at least till November. So far Eric has not done nothing while here in New Orleans other than say he rather be playing for another team. Left a bad taste. One injury after another one that was misdiagnosed or something like that and then goes to California for rehab. Gordon still has a lot of proving to do to become an all-star otherwise Tom Benson's patience will wear thin and he will be trade bait if he is not trade bait already. Remember Benson is cutting the checks now not Shinn.

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Originally Posted by PelicanFever

this draft is very weak at top though!! and we likely won't get a top 5 next year..won't be able to build like the thunder did

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Every draft has quality it's on management to find that talent. I think Trey Burke has the potential to be a top 5 PG if not the top PG in a 4-5 years. Oladipo is athletic of a player in the league. If he can continue to refine his skill like he has his 3 years at Indiana he can be special.

How do you know where we will pick next year?

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Every draft has quality it's in management to find that talent. I think Trey Burke has the potential to be a top 5 PG if not the top PG in a 4-5 years. Oladipo is athletic of a player in the league. If he can continue to refine his skill like he has his 3 years at Indiana he can be special.

How do you know where we will pick next year?

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exactly why we need to take burke or oladipo, they will be the best 2 players from this draft.

I can't believe somehow this thread at one point turned into an argument about whether Gordon has an injury problem. This dude has been dealing with injuries every year since High School! .......MuthaChuckin High School!!!

And people are nonchalantly excusing the fact that a guy being paid like a franchise player pouts, whines, and basically acts like a temperamental old broad! This is the guy we're giving beaucoup money to!

Want to compare Gordon to Curry... Gordon will be making $4.4m more than Curry next year and $4.2m more the following year.

Let's not be doofus homers here. Gordon has as much potential as any lotto pick over the next two years and nothing more. If he was on a rookie deal, I'd tolerate his personality, but he makes more since as the missing piece for an Eastern conference team like Pacers, 76ers, or Bulls... or Western conference team like the T- Wolves or Mavs... Than he does on a team with young players learning how to be pros that are still 2 seasons away for the beginning of their playoff window.

Here is how you should evaluate whether or not Eric Gordon belongs on this team:

1. Is he a key piece to us competing for a championship while we can realistically expect to keep him under contract

2. If you could have a do-over, would you sign Eric Gordon if he was a free agent this year under the terms of the remaining money and length left on his current deal?

Please raise your hands if you would give Eric Gordon a 3yr, $44.5m contract tomorrow...

i really want us to find a way to trade gordon for jimmy butler and take on a semi bad contract if we must.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I can't believe somehow this thread at one point turned into an argument about whether Gordon has an injury problem. This dude has been dealing with injuries every year since High School! .......MuthaChuckin High School!!!

And people are nonchalantly excusing the fact that a guy being paid like a franchise player pouts, whines, and basically acts like a temperamental old broad! This is the guy we're giving beaucoup money to!

Want to compare Gordon to Curry... Gordon will be making $4.4m more than Curry next year and $4.2m more the following year.

Let's not be doofus homers here. Gordon has as much potential as any lotto pick over the next two years and nothing more. If he was on a rookie deal, I'd tolerate his personality, but he makes more since as the missing piece for an Eastern conference team like Pacers, 76ers, or Bulls... or Western conference team like the T- Wolves or Mavs... Than he does on a team with young players learning how to be pros that are still 2 seasons away for the beginning of their playoff window.

Here is how you should evaluate whether or not Eric Gordon belongs on this team:

1. Is he a key piece to us competing for a championship while we can realistically expect to keep him under contract

2. If you could have a do-over, would you sign Eric Gordon if he was a free agent this year under the terms of the remaining money and length left on his current deal?

Please raise your hands if you would give Eric Gordon a 3yr, $44.5m contract tomorrow...

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:clap::clap::clap:

Far too many people are enamored with the idea of what Gordon could be and completely dismissing what he really is. The sample size is there. In reality, he simply isn't a guy you can build around going forward. He's no more than a placeholder at this point.

I do want to keep him but if we decide to trade him im ok