Game Thread: Hornets @ Spurs {Final Score-SA 106... Hornets 102}

I once not so directly asked if this team is just a drafted rookie here a signed free agent there, plus some more experience and strength for our #1 pick away from truly contending or not and don't recall much response there and if we should keep our ears open for making a move. People like Vasquez, get attached, and don't wanna lose what things he brings. But we really do need more.

Currently I say you are spot on. Another good draft pick, a solid fa pickup (maybe Jennings) and you can move Vasquez. That team would be a top 4 team in the west next year, and battle the Thunder for a top spot in 2 years.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

So, to clarify... I have CHAMPIONSHIP expectations long term. I dont care about the regular season. I watch the players every game and project them to playoff basketball, because that is all that matters to me and it is a totally different animal.

I dont go up and down with Aminu and Vasquez every game, because I realize the regular season is not playoff basketball and no matter how good Vasquez and Aminu might look on a random Thursday night when their opponent is in the middle of a grueling season, they will be severely limited when the playoffs come and that team only has to scout the Hornets and play the Hornets for 2 weeks. When you look at it that way, you can see the roster more clearly IMO.

On that note, I think of championship closers- Kobe, Parker, Wade, Pierce, Dirk, Billups, MJ, Durant (this year I predict), etc. and all I am saying is that Gordon is not on that level nor will he be.

Can he be a closer on a good team? Sure. Like Joe Johnson was for the Hawks and has been so far for the Nets. Sure. But I just don't see any way he gets to that elite level that a champion needs to have on its roster.

Is that an insult to Gordon? Is it going to be any less true when he is 100% healthy? Is that a sensational statement?

I think it is a very logical opinion and one we would all have if Gordon was on another team and not on ours. But maybe I am wrong

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I agree with everything except for Gordon as a closer. I think he is a great closer right now, and I think he will only get better as he gets older. I think most people forget that he just turned 24 only a month ago. You have to give him time as he has shown flashes of brilliance so far in his young career as a closer, and he should grow into an elite one in the next few years.

Just because it's relevant, not all "elite" closers get the job done night in and night out. Did you happen to catch the OKC game tonight MM? Down by 2, Durant missed a FT with 37 seconds left, then he turned the ball over with 17 seconds left, and they lost the game.

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

Just because it's relevant, not all "elite" closers get the job done night in and night out. Did you happen to catch the OKC game tonight MM? Down by 2, Durant missed a FT with 37 seconds left, then he turned the ball over with 17 seconds left, and they lost the game.

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Durant has proven on way more occasions that he can be looked at as a closer, though. Gordon not so much. The sample size of his play is getting larger and people can judge him off of more than 9 games in a season. Either he is still rusty or he just doesn't have "it". I really don't care what the excuse is, but I know I don't want 4-5 turnovers (most late game) from my max contract player. That ish better come to a halt.

Just a question that I've been thinking about more lately:

What's more important to you,

We win a championship, or we establish New Orleans basketball as part of the culture through consistent success?

I understand we should strive for championships, but what's more important? What if we got hot at the right time in 2008 and won the title, but then still had all the injuries that followed? Is that better than what Utah, Portland, or Orlando have been able to do?

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Originally Posted by Ceedee M

Durant has proven on way more occasions that he can be looked at as a closer, though. Gordon not so much. The sample size of his play is getting larger and people can judge him off of more than 9 games in a season. Either he is still rusty or he just doesn't have "it". I really don't care what the excuse is, but I know I don't want 4-5 turnovers (most late game) from my max contract player. That ish better come to a halt.

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Of course he has, but he still loses games. That's my point. Gordon has won way more games for us than he has lost. Give Gordon another couple of years, and he'll be elite.

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Originally Posted by Bee-Fense

Just a question that I've been thinking about more lately:

What's more important to you,

We win a championship, or we establish New Orleans basketball as part of the culture through consistent success?

I understand we should strive for championships, but what's more important? What if we got hot at the right time in 2008 and won the title, but then still had all the injuries that followed? Is that better than what Utah, Portland, or Orlando have been able to do?

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You have to establish a culture, and with the right group of guys, that should yield at least one good championship run. The Spurs are the ideal small market franchise. I think we have a similar base, but our cap room allows us to get even better. I would hope for the same 10-15 year span of success they have had, along with a few championships of course.

Every loss is somehow Vasquez's fault... smh

Our young team got worked by a VETERAN team. This Spurs team has played under Pop so long that him missing 1 game won't throw off their game when you have the likes of Manu and Parker leading the team.

What about Robin Lopez getting straight up dominated by Tiago Splitter in the first half? That's probably a worse storyline than Tony Parker beating Vasquez. Tony Parker can turn it on against even the elite PGs. I remember CP getting beat by Parker plenty of times.

there are always various reasons for coming up short on winnable games and most of them apply to the players performance....however, unless this coaching staff begins doing a better job of managing the use of personnel, we are going to continue struggling for goodly portions of games....I just don't get our rotations and matchups sometimes....

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

On that note, I think of championship closers- Kobe, Parker, Wade, Pierce, Dirk, Billups, MJ, Durant (this year I predict), etc. and all I am saying is that Gordon is not on that level nor will he be.

Can he be a closer on a good team? Sure. Like Joe Johnson was for the Hawks and has been so far for the Nets. Sure. But I just don't see any way he gets to that elite level that a champion needs to have on its roster.

Is that an insult to Gordon? Is it going to be any less true when he is 100% healthy? Is that a sensational statement?

I think it is a very logical opinion and one we would all have if Gordon was on another team and not on ours. But maybe I am wrong

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I'd say you're wrong and it also has nothing to do with this team. The Hornets right now are borderline playoff. Not garbage. Gordon has closed enough games in his short stint here to warrant him being elite at doing it. He has all the tools to score or assist no matter what the defense does in response. Even still, those great at it wont close every game like Michael Jordan. Even Michael had his fair share of closing clunkers all throughout his career.

We're also talking about a 24 year old who is just getting started and not near full strength yet. Scored 17 efficient points all in one half. You putting that under those other players? He only played 29 minutes whereas all those other players get 40+ on a regular basis. I think it's high time Monty starts increasing those minutes and stop letting doctors treat him like a baby.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

I'd say you're wrong and it also has nothing to do with this team. The Hornets right now are borderline playoff. Not garbage. Gordon has closed enough games in his short stint here to warrant him being elite at doing it. He has all the tools to score or assist no matter what the defense does in response. Even still, those great at it wont close every game like Michael Jordan. Even Michael had his fair share of closing clunkers all throughout his career.

We're also talking about a 24 year old who is just getting started and not near full strength yet. Scored 17 efficient points all in one half. You putting that under those other players? He only played 29 minutes whereas all those other players get 40+ on a regular basis. I think it's high time Monty starts increasing those minutes and stop letting doctors treat him like a baby.

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Here here!

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

Couldn't agree with this anymore. Guys like Greivis Vasquez will look solid when you're not going up against guys like Tony Parker, Chris Paul, etc every night. You get breaks in the regular season and get to go up against guys like Isaiah Thomas.

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So the game he posted on cp3.....u guys discount that game how?? Like to hear this one

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

The only guy who was upset about getting shipped out of L.A. was Gordon. Aminu didn't show any emotions and Kaman seemed very happy at the time.

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You're mistaken about that. Kamen was very outspoken.

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

I agree with everything except for Gordon as a closer. I think he is a great closer right now, and I think he will only get better as he gets older. I think most people forget that he just turned 24 only a month ago. You have to give him time as he has shown flashes of brilliance so far in his young career as a closer, and he should grow into an elite one in the next few years.

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I haven't been pro Gordon as the future is concerned, but I agree 100%. Way too soon to say that he can't do it. Especially considering what he's done already and the fact he's never seen the post season(which might actually help Michael's point).

One of the reasons that I felt strongly about passing on Gordon when it was time to re-up was the fact that we didn't know if he was the big time player his talent had flashed.

Not a loss to be ashamed of guys. Got worked by a vet team and TP always kills us :hihi:

On to today :coolg:

Vasquez and Aminu weren't bad at all last night, especially Aminu. They played solid games. Davis and Gordon didn't perform much in the 4th and Gordon had 5 turnovers. Robin Lopez was useless last night and Anderson was quiet in the 4th as well. Also, no way Gordon could guard Parker. He would get abused. Aminu is the best defender. If anything, his length would bother Parker but obviously Monty wouldn't think of doing that.

Honestly, even though Gordon has had an impact on the players around him, he hasn't played well at all since coming back. Hopefully as time goes along, his knee will feel better and the rust will be shaken off.

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Originally Posted by Purple Haze

Not a loss to be ashamed of guys. Got worked by a vet team and TP always kills us :hihi:

On to today :coolg:

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That guys kills more than just us
Attachment 4601

Our rotations were slow all night and that's why splitter killed us all night. Parker to a cutting wide open splitter was getting old.

Tony Parker is supposed to be 6'2"?

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Originally Posted by HunnyB

He should've had more than 2 shots in the 2nd half.

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Well, I saw at least 2 out of 3 turnovers happened in crunch time, leading to two easy fast break baskets. I think they were also possessions for Gordon trying to drive to the basket. He had chances to take over. It simply didn't work.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Tony Parker is supposed to be 6'2"?

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Sure in high heels :hihi:

Upset about the game/coaching as well, also think people are a little hard on Gordon. If a player closed games out every single night he would not be human. He has won way more game for us in his short time here than he's lost. IMO Gordon is an elite sg when 100% healthy and I hope he can stay healthy long enough to show the non believers that. I think we can definitely win a championship with him as the centerpiece. Time to put this game to rest, erase it from memory and on to Pelican Day.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Tony Parker is supposed to be 6'2"?

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Seems like a stretch to me. But then again, is CP3 really 6'? He seems shorter than that to me. Kinda think listing PGs as taller than they actually are is fairly common. Much like listing 7-footers below their actual height is prevalent.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

I'd say you're wrong and it also has nothing to do with this team. The Hornets right now are borderline playoff. Not garbage. Gordon has closed enough games in his short stint here to warrant him being elite at doing it. He has all the tools to score or assist no matter what the defense does in response. Even still, those great at it wont close every game like Michael Jordan. Even Michael had his fair share of closing clunkers all throughout his career.

We're also talking about a 24 year old who is just getting started and not near full strength yet. Scored 17 efficient points all in one half. You putting that under those other players? He only played 29 minutes whereas all those other players get 40+ on a regular basis. I think it's high time Monty starts increasing those minutes and stop letting doctors treat him like a baby.

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Vasquez has closed some games too. Probably more so than Gordon over the past 3-4 weeks. He's hit some clutch shots at pivotal times.

If Gordon gets to the level of Kobe, Pierce, Wade, Durant, etc. I would be thrilled but again, if we weren't Hornets (or Pelicans) fans, would we give him that benefit of the doubt? Of course he CAN get there- theoretically anybody can- but isn't the much greater likelihood that he is not going to reach that level?

I'd like to keep our guys together for the most part. I like what Vasquez and Aminu bring to the table and hope/think they will continue to progress. Vasquez gets a lot of assists and can score. He is also a very good rebounder for his position. Aminu is a very good defender, gets a ton of rebounds from the SF position, and his offense is developing. If we had to upgrade a position, I'd like to upgrade Lopez. He is more than serviceable, but we can do better- he is especially weak on the boards. Whether we shift Davis there assuming he can get a bit bigger and therefore would upgrade the PF position or instead look to adding a pure center, I don't know. But I think that's where we should look for the most pressing upgrade. The other big upgrade we need is an elite scorer either from the SF or guard position. I think with the team's growth and development if we added two high quality players at these positions we'd be set with what we already have in place. We're very young and just need to develop what we have otherwise. Theoretically you could even move Davis to the 5, Aminu to the 4 and get a star SF that could rebound. Or maybe do the aforementioned, move Vasquez to the 3 and get a star PG. Lots of options.

We can blame whoever we want... doesn't matter. The fact is there was 1 stretch in this game that lost it for us. Down the stretch... we may have turned the ball over, or took HORRIBLE shots on 4 or 5 straight possessions that led to easy baskets for SA.

Never mind what TP did... he does that to everybody. That's not an excuse for it to happen to the Hornets but lets not act like TP is a bum.

Gordon CAN BE a closer, but it takes all 5 guys on the court to do their job as well.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

We can blame whoever we want... doesn't matter. The fact is there was 1 stretch in this game that lost it for us. Down the stretch... we may have turned the ball over, or took HORRIBLE shots on 4 or 5 straight possessions that led to easy baskets for SA.

Never mind what TP did... he does that to everybody. That's not an excuse for it to happen to the Hornets but lets not act like TP is a bum.

Gordon CAN BE a closer, but it takes all 5 guys on the court to do their job as well.

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I personally think the game was lost in the first 4 minutes of the 4th quarter. Monty decides to go with Roberts and Rivers in the backcourt instead of just going with Vasquez and Gordon for the whole quarter and going for the win.

7 possessions, 3 minutes and 40 seconds, zero points.

Could have stepped on the Spurs throats there, got out to a 7-10 point lead, but instead we rest GV and Gordon, even though they sat last 2 minutes of the 3rd. Had the break between quarters. An automatic timeout at the 6 and 9 minute marks. Multiple timeouts for both teams.

Play them all 12 minutes in the 4th and we win. Instead, the quarter starts out as a dud, Spurs take lead, starters have to come back in and play catch up. Then the run happens, game over.

Sick of Monty not stepping on opponents throats when the opportunity is there

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I personally think the game was lost in the first 4 minutes of the 4th quarter. Monty decides to go with Roberts and Rivers in the backcourt instead of just going with Vasquez and Gordon for the whole quarter and going for the win.

7 possessions, 3 minutes and 40 seconds, zero points.

Could have stepped on the Spurs throats there, got out to a 7-10 point lead, but instead we rest GV and Gordon, even though they sat last 2 minutes of the 3rd. Had the break between quarters. An automatic timeout at the 6 and 9 minute marks. Multiple timeouts for both teams.

Play them all 12 minutes in the 4th and we win. Instead, the quarter starts out as a dud, Spurs take lead, starters have to come back in and play catch up. Then the run happens, game over.

Sick of Monty not stepping on opponents throats when the opportunity is there

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Especially considering I think we had 3 or 4 timeouts left with less than 4 minutes to go. Plently of options to have breaks in the action to keep the starters "fresh."

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

Especially considering I think we had 3 or 4 timeouts left with less than 4 minutes to go. Plently of options to have breaks in the action to keep the starters "fresh."

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Exactly. If Gordon gets those extra 4 minutes, he plays 33 on the night. Is that too much? And again, dont you negate the wear and tear of those 4 minutes with all those timeouts?

I guess long term, it might be the right play and might help getting a slightly better pick this year, but it sucks to lose games that are winnable.

Losing to the Spurs is like Losing to the Lakers and Clippers... I can't take it. I get all angry and emotional. It's always where I sounds completely retarded in the game day threads. I lose all objectiveness and comprehension of basketball.

I've been a Suns and Hornets fan and the Spurs have killed both teams in the playoffs. It hurts!

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I personally think the game was lost in the first 4 minutes of the 4th quarter. Monty decides to go with Roberts and Rivers in the backcourt instead of just going with Vasquez and Gordon for the whole quarter and going for the win.

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Sometimes I feel as though Monty doesn't want to win too much at this point with the way he does substitutions down the stretch.

Unless Dell and Monty are in together to just play everyone so this offseason we know for sure what we consider an asset and what we consider trash.

I'm okay with the way the team is playing. Next year if Monty is still crazy with the rotations and we don't slim down to a 8-9 man rotation, I will be shocked.

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

Unless Dell and Monty are in together to just play everyone so this offseason we know for sure what we consider an asset and what we consider trash.

I'm okay with the way the team is playing. Next year if Monty is still crazy with the rotations and we don't slim down to a 8-9 man rotation, I will be shocked.

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Agree. I am fine with seeing what we got this year, experimenting, etc.

But next year and every year after better be win at all costs

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

If Gordon gets to the level of Kobe, Pierce, Wade, Durant, etc. I would be thrilled but again, if we weren't Hornets (or Pelicans) fans, would we give him that benefit of the doubt? Of course he CAN get there- theoretically anybody can- but isn't the much greater likelihood that he is not going to reach that level?

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Personally, I think Gordon compares favorably to Wade in terms of scoring. I think he can be a better scorer because he is naturally a better shooter. Defense is about even, maybe a slight edge to Wade (blah blah Wade was on the all-defense team). Gordon is a top notch defender when he gets down in his stance, but Wade is a better rebounder.

But yes, I do think Gordon can get to a Dwayne Wade level. Injuries slowed him down a bit, but he'll be good to go soon enough. Still knocking the rust off.

Wade also effected the game by dishing out assists and grabbing offensive boards/putbacks late in games. Gordon scores. That's it. Cant create for others on a regular basis and will almost never get you a board in crunch time.

Look, I really dont want to make it sound like the guy is horrible. Like I said, more Joe Johnson than Wade, which is still very good, but I just cant see him being on that elite level. If it is a tie game with 3 minutes left and the other team has Durant and we have Gordon, I aint gonna lie, I expect the other team to win 8 out of 10 times in that scenario.

I didnt feel that way when we had CP3 in his prime. I felt that if it was tied late or we went to overtime, CP3 would find a way to win us that game, no matter who the closer was on the other side. To me, that is the kinda guy you gotta have to win a title