Those numbers are for No1 pick.Originally Posted by All Metro
For top 3 we have 4% chance.
So four times better odds
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Those numbers are for No1 pick.
For top 3 we have 4% chance.
So four times better odds
Keep hope alive..Those numbers are for No1 pick.
For top 3 we have 4% chance.
So four times better odds
SIGN A SF
If Jrue Holiday was the young all-star point guard he was supposed to be, this team would be set. The problem is that Jrue Holiday never lived up to what was traded for him, and currently isn't worth the contract he expects to get.
Jrue is Gordon with a better smile and no public proclamation about the location of his heart.
Think about the ceiling for this team if Jrue was who we (some) thought he was? Instead of who he actually is. Jrue is a SG in Gentry's system and may not want to return in that role. But if he does, we're fine at SG with Jrue/Moore/Crawford, and would desperately need an upgrade over Frazier to start alongside Jrue.
Dell gave Gentry a lineup of Frazier/Moore/Hill/AD/Asik to start the season.The best players off the bench were a rookie and Galloway. Phillip Jackson Auerbach, with Jesus and Allah as lead assistants, couldn't have done anything with that roster.
Snyder is about to get swept by Mike Brown after barely squeaking out a 7 game series against a Doc Rivers team without Blake Griffin. At his BEST, Quin Snyder is as good as Monty Williams, but for my money Monty is a better coach. Quin has looked like a baby chicken on the sidelines at times during the playoffs when his team is falling apart. They could have won the game last night against the Warriors, but Snyder made no adjustments in the 4th. He also got out coached by Doc Rivers in a close out game on his home court in game 6, and is lucky their depth was the difference in pulling out game 7.
Here's a hot take for you... Jazz take a step back and are an 8th seed at best next year. Blazers, Pelicans, Wolves and Nuggets could all be better than Snyder's Jazz, and will be "better coached". But it won't mean Snyder is a worse coach next year than he is this year. He'll be the same guy. Monty with hair.
The playoff net rating for the Jazz, has dropped 7.6 points points to -2.9 during the playoffs.
They were the 28th in PPG, and last in FGs attempted during the regular season.
Please, oh please, don't find me the next Quin Snyder to coach this team.
The Pelicans net rating went from 12th in the NBA in November, to 3rd in the NBA in March. Too bad Gentry doesn't make adjustments.
Jrue Holiday is damaged goods.
He is a nice guy no tattoos clean cut type no doubt.
But he has a steel rod in his leg with screws.
His game is no where close to a top tier level to play on this club as a starter.
This team needs a Scorer due to the limited amount of touches.
Jrue is a great fit for San Antonio Spurs or Cleveland Cavs.
D.C. and AD are not pass first players.
Again coaching is a big part of the equation.
As long as we have Alvin Gentry you are getting what you have seen for the last 164 games plus or minus a couple new players.
Last edited by Buckwheat; 05-07-2017 at 12:58 PM.
I credited Hood and Burks. I listed everything the Jazz have done since Hayward, since pre-Hayward was a different time, but I can catalog that as well if you like - it's more unimpressive drafting.
It's not dismissing Gobert - it's saying they lucked into him. They were committed to Kanter and Favors. Only when Kanter was traded and Gobert got more minutes by default, they realized he was good. Without Gobert, the team would not be in the playoffs. And their long history of wiffing on lottery picks goes to show you that they at best are wash when it comes to drafting, at worst, really don't have any clue and it's luck that's winning out.
And there is no way you can credit them for Favors - a midseason trade because of Deron Williams. That would be like crediting us for Gordon and Aminu - you can't.
Your point was that they are great at drafting and that is why they are in the playoffs now. That is just not true. They aren't great at drafting and haven't done much at all in the past 5 years. Yet when they finally trade their draft pick and bring in depth via trade and free agency - they finally make the playoffs.
Nothing about what they have done recently from letting Jefferson and Milsap walk for nothing to their recent draft moves suggests any level of "great" moves. At best they have been average.
Since we drafted Davis, they have made the playoffs the same amount of times (1). Recency bias has us thinking they are more special than they are.
Lucked up? That's dismissing. The reason why draft picks are so important is because the more you have the more likely you are to "luck up" into a difference maker. Which is my point. You can go 3 for 12 and still change the franchise with little risk.
The Jazz are about to get swept, have been more lucky than good in the playoffs, and could lose Hayward and Hill this summer. In spite, of Iso Joe signing with them last summer, they'll never be an NBA free agent destination no matter what they do. Would anyone really be surprised if Hayward signed with Boston and Hill signed with San Antonio?
The only things I want that the Jazz have are our name and our colors. And even that might be overrated... like their coach.
That's not your point. That's you changing goal posts. You argued that the Jazz took this leap because of great drafting. Their drafting has been mediocre at best. This year they took a 10 win jump and finally made the playoffs the first time in 5 years. What did they do? They traded their pick for a vet and signed more vets. Decidedly the opposite of great drafting. And their recent draft moves have been anything but great.
It's one thing to argue the Pels need to draft more, another to argue that the Jazz are great at drafting.
What adjustments in the 4th would have helped the jazz last night?
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Jazz went into halftime with a lead, and loss by double digits. Clearly, since Quin Snyder is the next Pat Riley, he should have done something to make an adjustment! Since coaching is super important, it's obvious Mike Brown made an adjustment at halftime that caused GSW to win game 3 on the road.
Or it could just be that the Golden State Warriors have better players.
The Jazz finished the season scoring the 28th most ppg in the league, playing a style that was never going to win them games in the playoffs, and they're extremely lucky to have gotten pass the Clippers.
So having your players mature isn't due to drafting them? They drafted an all-star in Hayward and potential DPOY in Gobert in a 4year period. That's great. How many teams have that on their resume?
Kyle Lowry.
He's leaving Toronto.
We took our draft picks and guys we signed off the street and turned them into Boogie a difference maker. We could have kept every draft pick in the AD era and odds are we wouldn't have as good of talent as we do now.
There are multiple ways to build a team and we conservatively have two top 15 players, one being a top 5 player.
Yeah but how do we get better? We are tapped out of assets. Davis and Cousins both have a ton of talent but none of them have a history of winning in this league and Boogie is a 7 year vet. Yes you take both if you have the chance but where's the cheap talent to add to them. If we fail to have success we could lose Cousins next year. Which has always been why I favor drafting talent. Demps plan to add young vets at the expense of draft picks has cost this franchise even with Davis and Cousins under contract next year.
I think every thing you've said (and have been saying) would be true if we didn't get Boogie. Getting him is a game changer. Davis is clearly a 1A talent, but Boogie is certainly 1B. We'll have draft picks going forward and exemptions to add talent this team, and for better or worse we'll have whoever they settle on this summer to play PG. That could be Jrue, that could be TPE that ends up with us getting a Rubio/Knight/Bledsoe/Lin type, or that could be a Patty Mills type if we use cap space.
Davis and Boogie are capable of powering this team to wins on their own. I know this because I've seen them do it separately with marginal supporting cast. And the small sample size from March of them playing together was very promising.
Pelicans just have to figure out this PG spot.
He didn't adjust his system to fit two bigs, we were devoid of talent, and so he had to play the hand he was dealt. You can't exactly run a Gentry system when you are devoid of shooters. Even then, what was this winning thing you guys are talking about when Boogie got here? We still sucked.
I don't think Boogie was hurt as much as we mailed it in. Actually, I will put good money on us sitting them to save our lottery chances more than we sat them because they were hurt.
Actually for Gentry's system you need shooters, and solid guard play. We let shooters walk (after we couldn't use them properly), and traded the others away (after we couldn't use them properly). We have had the players necessary to win with Gentry's system, the thing is Gentry's system isn't a winning system.
The Jazz won the series vs the Clippers while missing Gobert for 3 games. So yeah, lets not pretend like you were following that series.
Well surprise surprise, the Jazz are losing to the Warriors. Who isn't these days? Honestly, the Warriors are a product of amazing talent more than amazing coaches. Who knew that the Ws could take it to another level when the game was hanging in the balance? A team of KD, Steph Curry, Klay, Draymond, and AI could take it to another level...wow...novel.
When you say Monty is a better coach than Snyder, are you pretending like nobody follows basketball or something, and that you can slip one past the goalie? Are you not expecting us to point out their records (favors Snyder), their playoff records (favors Snyder), maximizing talent (favors Snyder), or coming from the college ranks to have success in the NBA? What are you basing your unfounded argument on?
Thats a hot take indeed. What's your next hot take, Kazaam was better than Guardians of the Galaxy?
Last edited by UNO Gracias; 05-07-2017 at 11:31 PM.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
Actually, after predictably dropping the first three after such a huge trade, the Pels then ran off a 10-6 March, which I noted at the time was the best single month the Pelicans/Hornets have turned in since CP3 was still in uniform. Think it was since Dec 2011?
Then came the backbreaking loss to Denver when Jrue brilliantly threw the game away in the final 30 seconds. not sure how much the Nuggets were paying him that night, but well worth the money. And from there on out, obviously they shut down the two big guys and tanked. But the March run was quite promising given that they were scrambling just to fill out the roster with castoffs and D-Leaguers.
I love how you're gonna pretend to know Gentry's "system" better than Gentry while simultaneously blaming Gentry for not using the guys in his "system" correctly. To top it off, it's not a winning "system". You know, despite Phoenix, Golden State, and now Houston all being great examples of the "system" working.
how many years You will give him
he seeks max
he is already 31
with injury history
I mean...if Lowry is actually available now, and actually thinking of coming back West...you offer him whatever you can while leaving room for Boogie's new deal, whatever it takes. I liked Lowry before most did, actually think he's gotten a bit overrated now (there were even some idiots trying to call him a Top 10 player last season), but overrated or not, if you could actually land him then you have landed a THIRD guy who's been All NBA in the last couple of seasons. You could arguably have the best Big Three of any team outside of Golden State.
This is the Pelicans time right now. This is their shot. If an opportunity presents itself you have to load up and go for it, and let the rest fall into place as it will. Teams with powerful cores almost always are able to find roleplayers and riff raff to fill in around the edges.
The same Golden State who is on its 2nd backup HC to Kerr? Give it a rest, it isn't Gentry's system that is causing them to win, its superior talent.
I think you missed the main point though, Gentry's system (while a system) is a losing system. Brian Hill had a system that got Orlando to the finals, I don't see people out there stumbling over themselves to hire Hill because they realize that his system was nothing more than getting out of the way and letting Shaq, Penny, Nick Anderson, and Dennis Scott do their thing. We just got the wool pulled over our eyes thinking Gentry's system was a winning one, while overlooking the fact that he was most successful because of the hall of fame talent in his system (his system didn't make them hall of fame players btw).
Snyder's system can take a bevy of avg. to above avg. players and turn them into a 5 seed in the West after a couple of years together while sustaining injuries throughout their playoff run.
Last edited by UNO Gracias; 05-08-2017 at 10:15 AM.
Scrambling to make it work while winning 2 games against playoff teams? We posted an amazing record, and you can only play the people on your schedule, but let's not pretend that we were beating the Unstoppa-Bulls, or Golden State in its prime.
Lowery hitting the market works out for us getting Jrue at less than a max rate. There is now more supply of good pgs, so the price can drop (as previously noted, not many teams have the cash to give Hill, Lowery, and Jrue a max, one might get it, but the others better be happy with getting $20mm).
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