Jimmy Smith article on Monty Williams future

[N.O.Bronco]

Monty has basically taken this team as far as Thibs has CHI save for the one conference finals. Thibs flames out in the 1st or 2nd round consistently. Doesn't make him great in my book. In the East nonetheless

When Thibs had his superstar, one that isn't as good as Davis mind you, he made it to the eastern conference finals. His first year mind you.

The only credit Monty has is losing in the first round. That's it. That's his legacy. If you want to **** on Thibs and then prop up Monty you might try a different angle then post season record.

The only fan base delusional enough to think Monty Williams has earned the right to be called an equal coaching talent to a guy that literally is considered one of the greatest defensive minds of the modern era, has made the playoffs every year and has the best win percentage of any active coach of more then 300 games except Popovich, would be a select group of special fans around this place.

Literally the only argument I hear from you all is attempts to drag Thibs down(poor attempts at that) nothing even remotely close to hashing out a detailed breakdown that could possibly support your position. It's laughable...but yeah, him and Monty are equals.


This board sometimes, my god.

Get a grip you certain sect of the Pelicans fanabase, you are making a mockery of the rest of us.

[4Real]

When Thibs had his superstar, one that isn't as good as Davis mind you, he made it to the eastern conference finals. His first year mind you.

The only credit Monty has is losing in the first round. That's it. That's his legacy. If you want to **** on Thibs and then prop up Monty you might try a different angle then post season record.

The only fan base delusional enough to think Monty Williams has earned the right to be called an equal coaching talent to a guy that literally is considered one of the greatest defensive minds of the modern era, has made the playoffs every year and has the best win percentage of any active coach of more then 300 games except Popovich, would be a select group of special fans around this place.

Literally the only argument I hear from you all is attempts to drag Thibs down(poor attempts at that) nothing even remotely close to hashing out a detailed breakdown that could possibly support your position. It's laughable...but yeah, him and Monty are equals.


This board sometimes, my god.

Get a grip you certain sect of the Pelicans fanabase, you are making a mockery of the rest of us.

As far as I know Rose has played in first round vs Bucks.

[RobertM320]

The E A S T E R N Conference. Apples and Oranges.

[4Real]

When Thibs had his superstar, one that isn't as good as Davis mind you, he made it to the eastern conference finals. His first year mind you.

The only credit Monty has is losing in the first round. That's it. That's his legacy. If you want to **** on Thibs and then prop up Monty you might try a different angle then post season record.

The only fan base delusional enough to think Monty Williams has earned the right to be called an equal coaching talent to a guy that literally is considered one of the greatest defensive minds of the modern era, has made the playoffs every year and has the best win percentage of any active coach of more then 300 games except Popovich, would be a select group of special fans around this place.

Literally the only argument I hear from you all is attempts to drag Thibs down(poor attempts at that) nothing even remotely close to hashing out a detailed breakdown that could possibly support your position. It's laughable...but yeah, him and Monty are equals.


This board sometimes, my god.

Get a grip you certain sect of the Pelicans fanabase, you are making a mockery of the rest of us.

If Monty is such a bad coach how come he was an assistant on team USA? Coach K thinks different then you.

[4Real]

When Thibs had his superstar, one that isn't as good as Davis mind you, he made it to the eastern conference finals. His first year mind you.

The only credit Monty has is losing in the first round. That's it. That's his legacy. If you want to **** on Thibs and then prop up Monty you might try a different angle then post season record.

The only fan base delusional enough to think Monty Williams has earned the right to be called an equal coaching talent to a guy that literally is considered one of the greatest defensive minds of the modern era, has made the playoffs every year and has the best win percentage of any active coach of more then 300 games except Popovich, would be a select group of special fans around this place.

Literally the only argument I hear from you all is attempts to drag Thibs down(poor attempts at that) nothing even remotely close to hashing out a detailed breakdown that could possibly support your position. It's laughable...but yeah, him and Monty are equals.


This board sometimes, my god.

Get a grip you certain sect of the Pelicans fanabase, you are making a mockery of the rest of us.

So did Avery John and Byron Scott. Does that make them better coaches than Monty in your world?

[UptownFuz504]

When Thibs had his superstar, one that isn't as good as Davis mind you, he made it to the eastern conference finals. His first year mind you.

The only credit Monty has is losing in the first round. That's it. That's his legacy. If you want to **** on Thibs and then prop up Monty you might try a different angle then post season record.

The only fan base delusional enough to think Monty Williams has earned the right to be called an equal coaching talent to a guy that literally is considered one of the greatest defensive minds of the modern era, has made the playoffs every year and has the best win percentage of any active coach of more then 300 games except Popovich, would be a select group of special fans around this place.

Literally the only argument I hear from you all is attempts to drag Thibs down(poor attempts at that) nothing even remotely close to hashing out a detailed breakdown that could possibly support your position. It's laughable...but yeah, him and Monty are equals.


This board sometimes, my god.

Get a grip you certain sect of the Pelicans fanabase, you are making a mockery of the rest of us.

I never stated that they were equals but you're placing Thibs in the upper echelon when he has won nothing. Same as Monty last I checked. In the Eastern conference none the less. All you provide is that his team has been hurt. What makes you think that Thibs will all of a sudden get a team to the promised land in the West when he couldn't/can't do it in the East? If the race ended at game 82, this argument is moot but until your guy takes his uber talented teams out of the 2nd round, you can save the higher than thou dribble for when Thibs wins something. Until then, I'm good on him

[N.O.Bronco]

I never stated that they were equals but you're placing Thibs in the upper echelon when he has won nothing. Same as Monty last I checked. In the Eastern conference none the less. All you provide is that his team has been hurt. What makes you think that Thibs will all of a sudden get a team to the promised land in the West when he couldn't/can't do it in the East? If the race ended at game 82, this argument is moot but until your guy takes his uber talented teams out of the 2nd round, you can save the higher than thou dribble for when Thibs wins something. Until then, I'm good on him

You are the one that tried to place Thibs and Monty on near equal footing. The onus is on you to make that case, not me to push back against your unqualified assertions. Your argument has basically amounted to assert an unqualified opinion, attempt to put anyone disagreeing with your unqualified assertion on the defense by attacking the perceived holes in their explanation while giving none of their own.

By pretty much every important metric Thibs has been a more successful coach then Monty and experts agree with that. The consensus is set and you are the one arguing against it. The onus is on you to make your case. So far your only attempt has been to knock Thibs w/l record in the playoffs but if we are applying that same logic to Monty, you end up defeating your own argument because Monty has an abysmal playoff record as of now.

[UptownFuz504]

He's been more successful in every metric sans the most important one. Championships. He's had better teams and the easier division and still hasn't gotten it done. I was not equating the two coaches because that would be crazy but to say that Thibs can take this team to the promised land just isn't founded by anything. That's just an assertion by the anti-Monty/pro-Thibs group. It is universally accepted that the East is much easier to navigate than the West. It is also fact that Thibs has not been able to get his teams over the hump. So again I ask, at the end of the day, why does he deserve all of the accolades that people are heaping on him?

[DaBrow]

Thibs
First year 2010-2011 Derrick Rose MVP - Eastern Conference Finals - L to Heat
Second Year 2011-2012 Derrick Rose tears ACL in first round, first game against the Sixers - L
Third Year 2012-2013 dragged that team to the second round with again no Derrick Rose - L to Heat
Fourth Year 2013-2014 starting five Hinrich - (pre-2015) Butler - Dunleavy - Boozer - Noah - L first round
This year 2014-2015 Back to having a decent team with Rose back, this years Butler, and Gasol and are leading the Bucks 3-2 and will probably close out that series and eventually lose to LeBron and the Cavs.

See anything? Yea the East is weak, but they have lost to the Heat 2 of his 4 post seasons and have had his superstar PG for 1 postseason run. As much as most of you give Monty a pass on his record due to injuries, imagine if AD went down at any point. How awful would we be? Yea Rose isnt AD, but he is the focal point of that offense. Without him the engine does not run, and it shows.

He probably wont make it to the finals this year, because again he has to play against the best player of this decade's team, again. (Even though I think they have the best shot at beating the Cavs in the East)

There is more to it than "He sucks because he hasnt made it to a finals...... won a championship....etc" Hes only had his star player for 1 postseason, and now hopefully 2.

AND he has won something, as the coach that was the sole reason for the Celtics defense in their championship run.

[N.O.Bronco]

He's been more successful in every metric sans the most important one. Championships. He's had better teams and the easier division and still hasn't gotten it done. I was not equating the two coaches because that would be crazy but to say that Thibs can take this team to the promised land just isn't founded by anything. That's just an assertion by the anti-Monty/pro-Thibs group. It is universally accepted that the East is much easier to navigate than the West. It is also fact that Thibs has not been able to get his teams over the hump. So again I ask, at the end of the day, why does he deserve all of the accolades that people are heaping on him?

You're just rambling now and throwing in some stupid straw men too boot. The argument isn't Thibs guarantees a championship but that Thibs is a superior coach. To which every credible expert agrees. To which anyone with half a brain would conclude.

If championships are your metric, the root of which are results orientated argument. Monty fails. Again. So try moving the goalpost somewhere else to make this ridiculous case you are making. Trying to poke holes in Thibs(poor attempts I might add) doesnt mean that makes Monty better or closer in talent.

If the only way we are going to analyze Thibs is by poking holes in him and not giving any context to those criticisms then you have to be even handed and hold Monty to that same evaluation process. To which you once again will hurt your own argument because if Thibs doesnt get the luxury of context then that leaves Monty as a sub .450 coach that hasn't made it past the first round despite having two squads with high level talent.

We can play this stupid game all day or you can start actually making a good point or better yet, concede how ridiculous you are making yourself look trying to equivocate Monty and Thibs as being similar coaching talent so far in their careers.

[MonsterMash]

I never stated that they were equals but you're placing Thibs in the upper echelon when he has won nothing. Same as Monty last I checked. In the Eastern conference none the less. All you provide is that his team has been hurt. What makes you think that Thibs will all of a sudden get a team to the promised land in the West when he couldn't/can't do it in the East? If the race ended at game 82, this argument is moot but until your guy takes his uber talented teams out of the 2nd round, you can save the higher than thou dribble for when Thibs wins something. Until then, I'm good on him

Thibodeau has his flaws - overexerting his players being chief among them - but he's more accomplished than Williams. Thibs "flaming out in r1 or r2" is still far better than "flaming out in r1 a couple times and in the lottery all other times." It's no comparison.

[Jabberwalker]

Remember when Popovich was flaming out for a few years? I wonder what he forgot to do as a coach for a couple years and then remembered years later.

[N.O.Bronco]

Remember when Popovich was flaming out for a few years? I wonder what he forgot to do as a coach for a couple years and then remembered years later.

No, not really. He hasn't gone below 50 wins his entire career. Never missed the playoffs. There was the transition from the Spurs being built as Duncan's team to Parkers. Is that what you are talking about?

[Jabberwalker]

No, not really. He hasn't gone below 50 wins his entire career. Never missed the playoffs. There was the transition from the Spurs being built as Duncan's team to Parkers. Is that what you are talking about?

If the bulls "flaming out" before reaching the finals is because of the coach, then look at all the coaches who "flame out".
Pop lost in the first round twice and the second round once between 09 and 11 with a similar core that won before and after. Similar players, same coach. So if making it to the finals is on the coach, then the all-time great "flamed out" three years in a row.

[N.O.Bronco]

If the bulls "flaming out" before reaching the finals is because of the coach, then look at all the coaches who "flame out".
Pop lost in the first round twice and the second round once between 09 and 11 with a similar core that won before and after. Similar players, same coach. So if making it to the finals is on the coach, then the all-time great "flamed out" three years in a row.

Now I'm following you. haha. Gotcha

[4Real]

If the bulls "flaming out" before reaching the finals is because of the coach, then look at all the coaches who "flame out".
Pop lost in the first round twice and the second round once between 09 and 11 with a similar core that won before and after. Similar players, same coach. So if making it to the finals is on the coach, then the all-time great "flamed out" three years in a row.

If the Spurs flame out to the Clippers bench(Rivers)again we should leave Monty and his rotations alone.

[BallSoHard]

Monty has basically taken this team as far as Thibs has CHI save for the one conference finals. Thibs flames out in the 1st or 2nd round consistently. Doesn't make him great in my book. In the East nonetheless

Well that one conference finals would be farther than this franchise has ever been, so thats a hell of a thing to be dismissive of.

[4Real]

To Quote DarkHornet

"2012–13: 27-55 (AD's first season)
2013–14: 34-48 (+7)
2014–15: 45-37 (+11)

People talk like this team is moving backwards. It is not. Even with the injuries. "