Race for 8 Duel Game Thread: OKC @ IND; NOP @ HOU

[Mythrol]

Because by the third rolled around Harden was on a roll. We allowed him to get into rhythm, get comfortable with the refs. He started the game with asik in the lineup and went 0-3 and only 2 points. He finished the half with 16 points, 14 points in the last 7 minutes when Asik left the lineup. So whatever logic you have with ryno being out there was completely countered by what happened defensively.

You want to talk about the third? Lets go. Harden came out continuing what he built on by attacking Ryno in the second that got him into rhythm but by the time Asik left the lineup the lead was pelicans by 5. That quarter would end with us tied.

Until the fourth quarter Asik left the floor with a Pelicans lead.

The thing is you are sounding like a Jimmer fan at this point. But there is really no way to twist this to make it look like a good decision on Monty's part. I can understand going with he offense when Ryno was hitting but as the lead evaporated you have to make an adjustment. Monty decided to be bullheaded despite everything pointing to where the problem was and what could likely counter it. We had a formula that was working: Asik in the paint, Davis at the 4 and putting our best defensive guards on Harden. Especially effective with Cole and Jrue.

Maybe you put Asik and Cole/Jrue out there the last 5 minutes and Harden still goes off, but if history was the guide he would of been settling for jumpshots and Howard wouldn't of gotten easy post possessions.

Ok. So let's assume this is true. Why did Asik sit then and what other option did Monty have? Keep in mind Ajinca had 2 fouls in 2 minutes. . .

[Perth_Hornet]

Sorry, I mistyped.

Jrue vs. Tyreke shouldn't be a debate for anyone with eyes.

You're in the Jrue camp then?

What's Reke's best role?

[rt0307]

Sorry i have limited access as im in Jamaica.
Do the Spurs now need to win against us to retain 2nd or is that a lock?

Spurs will have to win... Rockets are off until their final game Wed. night... and they play the Hornets

Grizzlies also only have 1 game left as well... and that's also Wed. against the Warriors

[N.O.Bronco]

Hey, any chance of some positivity after a loss? That Jrue guy looked pretty good.

Long term view, having him back will make such a huge difference. Playoffs or not, we should be pumped that he is back and playing well.

Yep. I really hope he can stay healthy, fingers crossed. If he can be as consistent as he has been since he got back defensively he will be such a huge boost to our starting lineup. This team needs help at the point of attack in a bad way.

The fluidity of the offense is also so much better with Jrue. He just makes smarter passes and is a better facilitator.

[Hornets2013]

Player of the game: Jimmer.

[rt0307]

You're in the Jrue camp then?

What's Reke's best role?

Reke needs to be off ball... getting the ball in space where that quick 1st step can really be useful

Holiday needs to be this team's PG... ball movement won't slow as much as it does w/ 'Reke

[MichaelMcNamara]

You're in the Jrue camp then?

What's Reke's best role?

Is there still a Reke camp? Man, I hope not.

Reke can be fine as a 6th man who pushes the pace or he can be a solid trade chip. I wouldn't mind either.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Spurs will have to win... Rockets are off until their final game Wed. night... and they play the Hornets

Grizzlies also only have 1 game left as well... and that's also Wed. against the Warriors

Ok thanks

[rt0307]

Ok thanks

sorry... I had the schedule wrong... but it changes nothing... SAS will have to win on Wed. night

they only have the game against us left

HOU goes to CHA tom. night and finish off against the Jazz at home... both should be Ws

MEM is @ GSW tom. night & home vs. IND on Wed... perhaps 1-1

right now after tonight's win over PHX... SAS is only 0.5 game up on both of them

edit: think of it... at the end of Wed... the SW division could have a 3 way tie for 1st at 56-26

[N.O.Bronco]

Ok. So let's assume this is true. Why did Asik sit then and what other option did Monty have? Keep in mind Ajinca had 2 fouls in 2 minutes. . .

You will have to ask Monty. To me it looked like the standard rotation when it came to Ryno, Davis and Asik to me. Ryno finishing every quarter and getting significant minutes in the fourth. Asik starting the first and third and sitting to end the second, third and fourth. not seeing the floor much the second quarter. Ryno ending the game with more minutes then Asik.

I think tonight was a night where Asik needed to shadow Howard all game and be quick to get into the lineup when Harden looked to get going. Again this is all my opinion based on what I saw.

To Ryno's credit his first quarter rating was phenomenal. He posted an ungodly +50 net rating (off rating and def rating). That was the Anderson I fell in love with last season. Smart shots, hitting open looks and beating up on backup units. But then he erased that by posting a -30 net rating in the second. a -70 net rating in the third and a -25 net rating in the fourth. I don't blame that on Ryno. I blame that on Monty putting him in a bad position to maximize his skills.

Ryno shouldn't be asked to be the primary rim defender when Harden and Howard are both on the court. That was my contention. Its been mine all season. I think it has contributed to his poor play. He should be a utility player that you use based on matchups and performance. That is until Davis can put more size on and play center effectively to finish the 2nd and 4th quarter. Then I would put Ryno back into those closing lineups consistently.

[Pelicans_fan_504]

Man this is so stressful I can't even watch the games. I played Resogun on the PS4 listening to music with the Spotify app and checking the scores every 15 minutes. I'm going to be a wreck tomorrow to

[Mythrol]

You will have to ask Monty. To me it looked like the standard rotation when it came to Ryno, Davis and Asik to me. Ryno finishing every quarter and getting significant minutes in the fourth. Asik starting the first and third and sitting to end the second, third and fourth. not seeing the floor much the second quarter. Ryno ending the game with more minutes then Asik.

I think tonight was a night where Asik needed to shadow Howard all game and be quick to get into the lineup when Harden looked to get going. Again this is all my opinion based on what I saw.

To Ryno's credit his first quarter rating was phenomenal. He posted an ungodly +50 net rating (off rating and def rating). That was the Anderson I fell in love with last season. Smart shots, hitting open looks and beating up on backup units. But then he erased that by posting a -30 net rating in the second. a -70 net rating in the third and a -25 net rating in the fourth. I don't blame that on Ryno. I blame that on Monty putting him in a bad position to maximize his skills.

Ryno shouldn't be asked to be the primary rim defender when Harden and Howard are both on the court. That was my contention.

So wait. You are calling the coach out for a specific scenario and don't even have an alternative solution to the problem?

I'm on my phone so I can't look up play by play. Maybe it was as simple as Asik had played 7ish minutes straight and was done. Dude can only go so long before having to sit.

I think when you combine how good Ryno was in the 1st, how bad Ajinca was, and assuming Asik had just had a long run I don't know if there even was another option.

[N.O.Bronco]

So wait. You are calling the coach out for a specific scenario and don't even have an alternative solution to the problem?

I'm on my phone so I can't look up play by play. Maybe it was as simple as Asik had played 7ish minutes straight and was done. Dude can only go so long before having to sit.

I think when you combine how good Ryno was in the 1st, how bad Ajinca was, and assuming Asik had just had a long run I don't know if there even was another option.

I guess you aren't reading it clearly.

Yes I have an idea of what he should of done. We just spent 8 pages arguing it. Asik in over Ryno to end the second to try and slow the bleeding of the weakness the Rockets found and exploited by abusing Ryno who was being asked to defend the rim and the pick and roll. Which he is not suited to do play after play.

the starting unit with Asik and then Jrue and Cole contained Harden to 0-3 and 2 points until 7 minutes left in the second. Asik left the lineup and Evans and Gordon came back in shortly. We finished the quarter with Anderson and Davis and Anderson got abused. Harden finally broke through and found success attacking the paint and abusing Ryno in the pick and roll. If Davis didnt make some key defensive plays the Rockets would have had the lead by the half.

To me it was obvious around the 4 minute mark and on that we needed to adjust. I said as much when it happened. Once Asik they started feasting int he paint. Asik should of been brought back in(or even Cunningham) and tried to slow the bleeding that started in the paint. The Rockets found a weakness and we didn't have a plan to cover it up. It was a lose/lose.

We had no real rim defender and when they were small either needed a rim protector or someone that could play the pick nd roll game better defensively.

Could that of nullified or slowed Harden and Howard getting hot and into a rhythm with the refs who started giving them calls? Maybe, maybe not. If that lineup carried over what they had done earlier it likely would of been more effective then the Ryno/Davis big lineup. But it was clear the Ryno rim protecting unit wasn't doing that and wasn't generating enough offense to counter their attack.

[UNO Gracias]

I didn't watch the game, is Ajinc dead?



Serious question

[billfromfinance]

I didn't watch the game, is Ajinc dead?



Serious question

2 fouls in 2 minutes. Regular Ajinca is back.

[Mythrol]

I guess you aren't reading it clearly.

Yes I have an idea of what he should of done. We just spent 8 pages arguing it. Asik in over Ryno to end the second to try and slow the bleeding of the weakness the Rockets found and exploited by abusing Ryno who was being asked to defend the rim and the pick and roll. Which he is not suited to do play after play.

the starting unit with Asik and then Jrue and Cole contained Harden to 0-3 and 2 points until 7 minutes left in the second. Asik left the lineup and Evans and Gordon came back in shortly. We finished the quarter with Anderson and Davis and Anderson got abused. Harden finally broke through and found success attacking the paint and abusing Ryno in the pick and roll. If Davis didnt make some key defensive plays the Rockets would have had the lead by the half.

To me it was obvious around the 4 minute mark that we needed to adjust. I said as much when it happened. Asik should of been brought back in and tried to slow the bleeding that started in the paint. The Rockets found a weakness and we didn't have a plan to cover it up.

Could that of nullified or slowed Harden and Howard getting hot and into a rhythm with the refs who started giving them calls? Maybe, maybe not. But it was clear the Ryno rim protecting unit wasn't doing that and wasn't generating enough offense to counter their attack.

So I just checked. Asik played until the 3:50 mark of the 1st.

He came back in at the start of the 2nd and played with Anderson to rest AD.

He played until the 8:48 mark when he picked up his 2nd foul and was replaced by Ajinca. Ajinca played until 7:08 when he picked up his 2nd foul. AD replaced him.

Our plays after that were as such:

AD make.
Ryno made 3.
Cole jumper.
Ryno and 1.
QPon 3.

Ryno has now at this point been playing since the 3:50 mark of the 1st qtr. It is 4:04 left in the 2nd. We only score 3 more times in the entire half of which one was an offensive rebound/put back by Ryno. Even with the "awful" Ryno defense Houston only outscored us 11-7 to end the Qtr.

So from looking it over it appears the two fouls on Asik and Ajinca are what caused the issue. Now if we want to say Monty is way too conservative on how he handles players with fouls. . .I might be able to agree with that.

An argument could be made that he should have taken Ryno out however after seeing how many minutes he played. Dude did 16 minutes straight and was solid until the last 4. As a big coming back from injury that might be argued it was a bad move and Monty should have risked a 3rd foul on Asik who finished the game with 4.

Interesting note. From the 8 minute mark (right before AD came in) until the 4 minute mark Ryno scored 8 of our 15 points. In that time frame we broke even with Houston on scoring, but Houston took 6 FTs to our 1.

This is where I think the game was affected by the refs. This 2nd qtr they gave every call to Houston. Including a double dribble call that wasn't one and multiple no calls our way.

I don't think however Harden was suddenly picking on Ryno. He only had 3 layups in the entire half, one of which was a foul on Cunningham, and the rest of his shots were either step back jumpers or 3s. Asik was out of the game since nearly the 9 minute mark and Harden didn't make his first basket until 6:35 (it was a step back jumper).

After looking it over I stand by what I said. Monty went with the offensive threat in Ryno who was one and scored 10 of our 27 points that qtr. I think that was Monty's logic and worked decently. For the qtr (which Ryno played the entirety of) we only lost by 3 pts while HOU took over double the FTs as us. What he couldn't control was Houston starting to get all of the calls.

We also had some fluke plays during that period like the Houston turnover that rolled off the leg into Terry's hands for a made 3 and the just plain bad double dribble call.

[UNO Gracias]

2 fouls in 2 minutes. Regular Ajinca is back.

But was this a 5 min. Game? Dude only played two minuets.

[UNO Gracias]

2 fouls in 2 minutes. Regular Ajinca is back.

But was this a 5 min. Game? Dude only played two minuets.

[N.O.Bronco]

So I just checked. Asik played until the 3:50 mark of the 1st.

He came back in at the start of the 2nd and played with Anderson to rest AD.

He played until the 8:48 mark when he picked up his 2nd foul and was replaced by Ajinca. Ajinca played until 7:08 when he picked up his 2nd foul. AD replaced him.

Our plays after that were as such:

AD make.
Ryno made 3.
Cole jumper.
Ryno and 1.
QPon 3.

Ryno has now at this point been playing since the 3:50 mark of the 1st qtr. It is 4:04 left in the 2nd. We only score 3 more times in the entire half of which one was an offensive rebound/put back by Ryno. Even with the "awful" Ryno defense Houston only outscored us 11-7 to end the Qtr.

So from looking it over it appears the two fouls on Asik and Ajinca are what caused the issue. Now if we want to say Monty is way too conservative on how he handles players with fouls. . .I might be able to agree with that.

An argument could be made that he should have taken Ryno out however after seeing how many minutes he played. Dude did 16 minutes straight and was solid until the last 4. As a big coming back from injury that might be argued it was a bad move and Monty should have risked a 3rd foul on Asik who finished the game with 4.

Interesting note. From the 8 minute mark (right before AD came in) until the 4 minute mark Ryno scored 8 of our 15 points. In that time frame we broke even with Houston on scoring, but Houston took 6 FTs to our 1.

This is where I think the game was affected by the refs. This 2nd qtr they gave every call to Houston. Including a double dribble call that wasn't one and multiple no calls our way.

I don't think however Harden was suddenly picking on Ryno. He only had 3 layups in the entire half, one of which was a foul on Cunningham, and the rest of his shots were either step back jumpers or 3s. Asik was out of the game since nearly the 9 minute mark and Harden didn't make his first basket until 6:35 (it was a step back jumper).

After looking it over I stand by what I said. Monty went with the offensive threat in Ryno who was one and scored 10 of our 27 points that qtr. I think that was Monty's logic and worked decently. For the qtr (which Ryno played the entirety of) we only lost by 3 pts while HOU took over double the FTs as us. What he couldn't control was Houston starting to get all of the calls.

We also had some fluke plays during that period like the Houston turnover that rolled off the leg into Terry's hands for a made 3 and the just plain bad double dribble call.

You keep talking past my point. Nowhere did I say Ryno was bad all game. He played marvelously in the first. From there was a different story. If he made 10 points in the second e helped give up just as many and more.

My point was the 5 minute a less make was when a change needed to happen. We left in our worst pick and roll defending big man right as the rockets began to find great success using the pick and roll and attacking Ryno. Asik and Cunningham are both very good pick and roll players and so at that point, as Ryno went cold toward the end, we should of made the switch when it was evident we weren't gonna outshoot that rockets team.

[Mythrol]

You keep talking past my point.

I think you missed where I specifically talked about why Monty left him out there. . .

Ajinca and Asik both had 2 fouls and Ryno was accounting for a good portion of our offense. Like I've said all along, Monty stuck with the offensive threat.

What wasn't clean until going back and looking at it was that our other bigs both had 2 fouls and Ryno played 16 minutes straight. I think there is a case to be had about Monty playing Ryno that long of a stretch and his avoidance of putting players back in with 2 fouls.

[Sam Scarborian]

AD is the most promising player not only in NOP but also in the whole NBA but Asik is the most important player in this team.
NO QUESTION. (Now the ball is in Hornet Guru's court. He will fire automatically )