Grading Dell Demps

[kclaboy504]

I will give my final grade on Demps after next summer. Every GM makes a big mistake or two, especially the first time around. I mean, the immortal Sam Presti drafted Cole Aldrich in the lotto (worse than Rivers), gave Perkins a big contract extension (almost as bad as Gordon), and traded James Harden because of mistake #2 (Perkins). The Gordon mistake was just that, a mistake, but if he can crawl out from under it and still find a way to put the right pieces around the Core 4, he can still earn an A. If he just compounds that mistake or lets it keep him from adding someone before AD's max contract kicks in, I can't go higher than a B-/C+

+1

[speedyG]

I can't believe now years later, and knowing what we know, people still question the possible CP3 deal with the Lakers. Probably helps that no one mentions the Rockets first we were supposed to get, or the two second round picks we had to throw in for the thrill of having Eric Gordon. The fact that we saw Odom traded for a first. We saw most of those pieces traded for James Harden. We saw Dragic become one of the best PG's in the league. And we're sitting here with Aminu for four more games, Austin Rivers and a dream of paying someone to take Eric Gordon. We even saw Scola get traded for Gerald Green, though it was after an amnesty and a lot of moving.

That deal is THE perfect example of why Dell should be given an A. His vision is way ahead of most people. Every team in the league would trade the 11th pick in this draft and a 6'11, 200 lb center coming off knee surgery for Jrue Holiday. Yet we still want to sit here and say two lottery picks two lottery picks, how awful.

And let's not forget we finished fourth after CP3 left. Whatever god you believe in is the reason we have Anthony Davis. Not any trade. If we want to be fair, the drafting of Austin Rivers had just as much to do with our poor record. Should we give Dell credit for that?

We dont know what Dell was gonna do with those pieces, All I know was that roster wasn't appealing at all.. now if we could have got Harden though..

[da ThRONe]

I will give my final grade on Demps after next summer. Every GM makes a big mistake or two, especially the first time around. I mean, the immortal Sam Presti drafted Cole Aldrich in the lotto (worse than Rivers), gave Perkins a big contract extension (almost as bad as Gordon), and traded James Harden because of mistake #2 (Perkins). The Gordon mistake was just that, a mistake, but if he can crawl out from under it and still find a way to put the right pieces around the Core 4, he can still earn an A. If he just compounds that mistake or lets it keep him from adding someone before AD's max contract kicks in, I can't go higher than a B-/C+

Not sure if this is accurate. If I'm not mistaken Presti could have amnestied Perkins and kept Harden. I think James left because he wanted to be the man of his own team. That wasn't happening with Durant and Westbrook and without being the man he is in Houston he would not be worth the money he's being paid. OKC offered him near max money for a 6th man that was a great deal. He just had to do what was best for him and that was leaving OKC. I don't count that as a mistake. No way Harden is producing like he is now as 3rd banana in OKC.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Not sure if this is accurate. If I'm not mistaken Presti could have amnestied Perkins and kept Harden. I think James left because he wanted to be the man of his own team. That wasn't happening with Durant and Westbrook and without being the man he is in Houston he would not be worth the money he's being paid. OKC offered him near max money for a 6th man that was a great deal. He just had to do what was best for him and that was leaving OKC. I don't count that as a mistake. No way Harden is producing like he is now as 3rd banana in OKC.

He could have technically, but according to most insiders, OKC management wasn't willing to swallow all that money.

OKC went up to $52 million, according to Royce Young, and Harden said he wanted the $58 mil max. OKC traded him. Heck, they could have waited to the following year and all another team could have offered him was 58 anyway.

This year - Perkins, Lamb, and Adams count for 12.6 against the cap, Harden would have counted for just a mil more than that. Same for next year. Heck, it would have been cheaper to have Harden last year than Perkins, Martin, and Lamb. A lot cheaper. So, they could have afforded him. But that Perkins contract tied Presti's hands. Ownership didn't want to use amnesty, so they had a limit as to how high they could go with Harden.

[da ThRONe]

He could have technically, but according to most insiders, OKC management wasn't willing to swallow all that money.

OKC went up to $52 million, according to Royce Young, and Harden said he wanted the $58 mil max. OKC traded him. Heck, they could have waited to the following year and all another team could have offered him was 58 anyway.

This year - Perkins, Lamb, and Adams count for 12.6 against the cap, Harden would have counted for just a mil more than that. Same for next year. Heck, it would have been cheaper to have Harden last year than Perkins, Martin, and Lamb. A lot cheaper. So, they could have afforded him. But that Perkins contract tied Presti's hands. Ownership didn't want to use amnesty, so they had a limit as to how high they could go with Harden.

That's only half of the equation. The other half is the fact that he was never going to be higher than a 3rd option. They would have had 3 max players that all of whom want to impact the game the same way. IMO it would have hurt them more keeping Harden at 58M. It's why I criticized Demps for signing Holiday/Gordon/Evans.

Also if ownership was too cheap to allow a GM to correct a previous mistake that is on ownership for being cheap.

[MichaelMcNamara]

That's only half of the equation. The other half is the fact that he was never going to be higher than a 3rd option. They would have had 3 max players that all of whom want to impact the game the same way. IMO it would have hurt them more keeping Harden at 58M. It's why I criticized Demps for signing Holiday/Gordon/Evans.

Also if ownership was to cheap to allow a GM to correct a previous mistake that is on ownership for being cheap.

But your criticism of Demps move was possibly legit because we never saw it work. Harden/Westbrook/Durant worked fantastically. They had already figured it out at a young age. Would Harden have been a starter in the AS game? No. But to say OKC would be better with Adams, Perkins, and Lamb than Harden is just crazy to me. Yes, Harden would have had to sacrifice when all three were healthy, but OKC would have been a much better team without a doubt. Can't call that a good move for Presti IMO. Can say its not horrible; that its only bad. But it aint good, thats for sure.

[da ThRONe]

But your criticism of Demps move was possibly legit because we never saw it work. Harden/Westbrook/Durant worked fantastically. They had already figured it out at a young age. Would Harden have been a starter in the AS game? No. But to say OKC would be better with Adams, Perkins, and Lamb than Harden is just crazy to me. Yes, Harden would have had to sacrifice when all three were healthy, but OKC would have been a much better team without a doubt. Can't call that a good move for Presti IMO. Can say its not horrible; that its only bad. But it aint good, thats for sure.

It's true Harden/Westbrook/Durant worked already. However that was with Harden on a rookie deal. Even Bosh/Wade/James weren't all three on max deals. So yes last year they would have been better off, maybe this year as well, but next year they wouldn't have the cap space to put anybody around Westbrook/Harden/Durant/Ibaka. Clearly if ownership was too cheap to amnesty Perkins they weren't going to spend to put other parts around them.

[MichaelMcNamara]

It's true Harden/Westbrook/Durant worked already. However that was with Harden on a rookie deal. Even Bosh/Wade/James weren't all three on max deals. So yes last year they would have been better off, maybe this year as well, but next year they wouldn't have the cap space to put anybody around Westbrook/Harden/Durant/Ibaka. Clearly if ownership was too cheap to amnesty Perkins they weren't going to spend to put other parts around them.

Maybe. But two titles is probably better than none. Not that they were guaranteed, and not like it is guaranteed they wont win one or multiples moving forward anyway, but again, I don't think you can possible call it a GOOD move. Just a matter of how bad it was. It would have been hard, with those 4 taking up about $62 mil a year, but you would have avoided tax last year and could have avoided it this year. You might have had to go into it slightly next year and the year after, but you wouldn't be in the repeater tax yet and the rebate check from the previous two years could have offset the lux tax payments.

I can't know how cheap the owners are, but it wasn't Presti's finest hour. At the very least, have Harden play out that final year then move him the following summer or match a $58 mil contract and wait for a deal for either him or Westbrook to be presented to you that you just can't say no to while you dominate the league in the meantime. Instead, they go out in the 2nd round last year and have nothing to show for Kevin Martin. They basically have Lamb and Adams to show for the trade. Again, you can't say its a good move. Just what level of bad is debateable

[Kibner]

All max deals are not the same. If Miami's three were to sign their max, it would have been significantly more than the three in OKC since it is third contract vs. second.

[kclaboy504]

They offered him 52m for how many years again? 3 or 4?

[Kibner]

They offered him 52m for how many years again? 3 or 4?

4. He would not qualify for a 52 million three year contract after his rookie contract ended.

[MichaelMcNamara]

They offered him 52m for how many years again? 3 or 4?

52 for 4. Max was 58 for 4. They let 6 mil over 4 years dictate their future. I mean, I get there is a point but its not like this was a replaceable player. Even coming off the bench he was one of the five most efficient perimeter scorers in the league. In the NBA, you trim fat around the outside, not up the middle. Trade out Sefolosha for a minimum player if you have to. I mean, would you rather have Sefolosha, Lamb, Perkins, and Adams or Harden and Anthony Morrow?

That's where you trim the fat. Don't get frugal with legit stars who are young and have great chemistry with your other stars.

[kclaboy504]

52 for 4. Max was 58 for 4. They let 6 mil over 4 years dictate their future. I mean, I get there is a point but its not like this was a replaceable player. Even coming off the bench he was one of the five most efficient perimeter scorers in the league. In the NBA, you trim fat around the outside, not up the middle. Trade out Sefolosha for a minimum player if you have to. I mean, would you rather have Sefolosha, Lamb, Perkins, and Adams or Harden and Anthony Morrow?

That's where you trim the fat. Don't get frugal with legit stars who are young and have great chemistry with your other stars.

I don't care how u put it. If we are going to criticize dell on a lot of things. Then that def deserves it's fair share. They let a top 10 guy in the nba go over 6m and would of only cost them less than 15m per. LESS THAN GORDON!!!!! Dam that is a horrible move. You have to think OKC has atleast 1 title by now if not 2.

[kclaboy504]

4. He would not qualify for a 52 million three year contract after his rookie contract ended.

Thx. Dam that's just crazy. I didn't pay too close of attention at the time, but I just assumed he was wanting the max (20m). OKC blew that big time. No matter how u slice it.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I don't care how u put it. If we are going to criticize dell on a lot of things. Then that def deserves it's fair share. They let a top 10 guy in the nba go over 6m and would of only cost them less than 15m per. LESS THAN GORDON!!!!! Dam that is a horrible move. You have to think OKC has atleast 1 title by now if not 2.

It was actually the same contract as Gordon - 4 for 58, but yeah, I agree. He is considered a top 2-3 GM and he has some big question marks on his resume

[Kibner]

It was actually the same contract as Gordon - 4 for 58, but yeah, I agree. He is considered a top 2-3 GM and he has some big question marks on his resume

His Collison contract was very smart, but he has gotten very lucky, overall, with so many draft picks paying off.

[Kibner]

Thx. Dam that's just crazy. I didn't pay too close of attention at the time, but I just assumed he was wanting the max (20m). OKC blew that big time. No matter how u slice it.

The max changes based on how many years you have been in the league, the size of your previous contract, and whatever the current salary cap is. That's why Kobe's next max would be for over 30 million per year but Gordon's was less than 16 million.

[tdcreator]

Can we use the injury money from Anderson to buy draft picks?

[MichaelMcNamara]

Can we use the injury money from Anderson to buy draft picks?

There was no injury money. There was an exception and that has expired.

[kclaboy504]

It was actually the same contract as Gordon - 4 for 58, but yeah, I agree. He is considered a top 2-3 GM and he has some big question marks on his resume

I thought Gordon got over 15 for some reason. Oh well. Yea u get my point. The thing that makes it that bad in my eyes is that he wanted to stay. He just wanted his $$ which he was worth. Not like harden forced their hand and wanted out and wasn't gonna sign back with them (CpMe situation). So, yea for them to get what they got in return was horrible. IMO.

[kclaboy504]

His Collison contract was very smart, but he has gotten very lucky, overall, with so many draft picks paying off.

He has gotten very lucky to be drafting in the spots he was in, in those years. Durant was a no brainer. The 08 draft was absolutely stacked.

[da ThRONe]

I don't care how u put it. If we are going to criticize dell on a lot of things. Then that def deserves it's fair share. They let a top 10 guy in the nba go over 6m and would of only cost them less than 15m per. LESS THAN GORDON!!!!! Dam that is a horrible move. You have to think OKC has atleast 1 title by now if not 2.

Do you consider Harden a top 10 player if he's still the 6th man and 3rd option for OKC?

[MichaelMcNamara]

Personally, I liked him better in OKC. Burden wasn't so heavy offensively that he played Matador defense to compensate.

He averaged 1.7 points per shot that final year in OKC. That's insane. Higher 3-point rate there then he has had in Houston, by a pretty big margin. He might not have had as good of raw stats, but there is no reason he couldn't have gotten 15 shots a game, seeing that Reggie Jackson and Jeremy Lamb combine for 20 this year.

15 shots a game, even if his points per shot drops all the way down to 1.5 means he is putting up 22.5 per game. How many shooting guards would be considered better, even if he wasn't a "starter?"

[Writhe]

Let's stay on topic and not forget gordon is making $3 million more per year than igoudala. EG hasn't played at a competitive level since he arrived here. B level management

[speedyG]

I dont think Harden would have accepted the #3 and 6th man role his whole career. Hes turned into a better player in Houston leading a team to being a possible contender after falling apart in the playoffs for OKC